My case for race change option in 1.6

Iago

Erock25 wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Sure. Why not. I'd agree to this to be added to the crown store just so that I never have to see someone whining about this in the forums again. ZOS, allow it! Where do I sign the petition?

^This.

Personally I find the concept of race changing repugnant, but seeing as some useful person creates a new thread about it on pretty much a weekly basis I would argue in favour of a free one-time race change if that really did mean that I would never have to encounter this topic on the boards. Ever again. Ever. Again.

I mean the last thread on this subject had activity up until 2 days ago. Really?!

Just for you, I will keep bringing it up forever, and ever, and ever. Even if we have it in game, I will fight for the right to race change.

Since factions are tied to races, changing races could theoretically change your faction. That being said changing factions would mean having to give up all experience in you main zone as it would become a Vet zone.

Not if you have the Imperial edition.

That's true but not everyone has the imperial edition although they could make purchasing it a requirement for the change. If they did people would be livid calling it another shameless money grab, and that is exactly what it would be.

Iluvrien

Erock25 wrote: »

Just for you, I will keep bringing it up forever, and ever, and ever. Even if we have it in game, I will fight for the right to race change.

Best laugh I have had all day, thanks.

I was marking homework from one of the grade 7 (12-13 year olds) classes that I teach, and I was immediately struck by how much this post sounded like something they would say.

Erock25

Iluvrien wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Just for you, I will keep bringing it up forever, and ever, and ever. Even if we have it in game, I will fight for the right to race change.

Best laugh I have had all day, thanks.

I was marking homework from one of the grade 7 (12-13 year olds) classes that I teach, and I was immediately struck by how much this post sounded like something they would say.

First my idea is repugnant and now I'm a child! You are two for two at being a condescending piece of work. Have a great day random internet angry person.

Iluvrien

Erock25 wrote: »

First my idea is repugnant and now I'm a child! You are two for two at being a condescending piece of work. Have a great day random internet angry person.

Yes, the idea of race change is repugnant to me. I specified that. Just because I don't like it, that doesn't mean that my view should directly impact on anyone else, even you. It does mean that I am going to argue against it every time I see it brought up, because I happen to think it isn't a good idea in the long term (for the reasons outlined in my responses in the thread I linked).

I don't think you are a child. I think that the response "I am going to keep doing the thing you don't like because you and Gidorick don't like it" isn't a mature one. Don't mistake my response about the comment to be a response about the poster.

..and for the record I am still smiling after my earlier laugh. No anger here at all, thanks!

gurgnir

Overpowered race/class combination is no longer overpowered so nublets want race/class change in order to be overpowered again. Absolutely pathetic.

Keep spitting your dummies out, guys. It's not like we're all stuck with one character slot - we have eight.

Gidorick

I'm actually of the thought now that ANY change... race change... faction change... name change... whatever. Allow it. Put it in the crown store. Charge $10 for it and lets call it a day.

ZOS will make money. Money will fund the future of ESO. We all benefit.

Now, gameplay is a secondary concern. Lore is tertiary.

Erock25

gurgnir wrote: »

Overpowered race/class combination is no longer overpowered so nublets want race/class change in order to be overpowered again. Absolutely pathetic.

Keep spitting your dummies out, guys. It's not like we're all stuck with one character slot - we have eight.

Oh yeah... that khajit stamina sorc build was super over powered.

Deviante

I would pay to change my race, I would rather be able to pay to change my character name.

With such credible changes to the mechanics of the game it can only make sense.
My guess is that it is not ready for implementation yet and they could be saving it for a cash grab down the line.

Bloodystab

badmojo wrote: »

Re-roll if you want to change race.

Your suggestion will never happen. Ever.

The same "Ever" like F2P/B2P model?

badmojo

No, more like "ZOS you'd better not let people change their race! EVER!"

I'm against the idea of letting people change such a fundamental part of their character. If I logged in and saw a friend I've known for a long time is suddenly a Khajiit, I'd lose a lot of respect for this game. Could it really be called a role playing game when you can start changing something like your characters race?

We already have the ability to create 8 different alliance/race/class combinations. The only reason someone wouldn't be able to recreate one of their characters as another race, is laziness. The game isn't shutting down, it's only been out for less than a year, suck it up and re-roll if it's that important. Or don't, because I honestly think it's stupid to care so much about a few racial bonuses. You can easily re-spec your character to magicka if stamina isn't working anymore. It's hard to believe the racial passives would have such a huge negative influence to where you have to change races.

AngryNord

badmojo wrote: »

No, more like "ZOS you'd better not let people change their race! EVER!"

I'm against the idea of letting people change such a fundamental part of their character. If I logged in and saw a friend I've known for a long time is suddenly a Khajiit, I'd lose a lot of respect for this game. Could it really be called a role playing game when you can start changing something like your characters race?

We already have the ability to create 8 different alliance/race/class combinations. The only reason someone wouldn't be able to recreate one of their characters as another race, is laziness. The game isn't shutting down, it's only been out for less than a year, suck it up and re-roll if it's that important. Or don't, because I honestly think it's stupid to care so much about a few racial bonuses. You can easily re-spec your character to magicka if stamina isn't working anymore. It's hard to believe the racial passives would have such a huge negative influence to where you have to change races.

This.
/thread

C0pp3rhead

When I bought this game in April, I rolled an Argonian templar as my main. The racial passives at the time were lackluster, but I still wanted to play as an Argonian. They are, after all, the Master Race. I am not what you would call a min-maxer; I am very happy with my character and I don't mind wearing v13 gear because I can't afford the v14 versions. Now however, I am starting to regret my decision, not because I no longer feel attachment to my reptilian toon, but instead because I am feeling unreasonably disadvantaged compared to other races.

For the past 9 months, softcaps have been in place, preventing players on using their racial passives to significant advantage. With the right gear and player skill, I was able to overcome what I lacked in extra magicka or stamina. In 1.6, however, there are no softcaps. The potential to reach higher maximum attribute pools is a big deal. Combined with the cost reduction and other passives from the CP trees, that extra 10% for some races means alot. On top of that, several skills, abilities, and stats scale off of your max health/stam/mag, making extra stats even more valuable.

As an Argonian, I get +3% health, compared to +10% magicka or +21% stamina regen for other races. My poison and disease resistances are significantly lower than Nord cold resist or Dunmer fire resist. That extra 6% healing sounds pretty good, but even the biggest crit heals in the game will net me less than 100 extra hp in heals received. And let's face it: extra swim speed is convenient, but it won't help me in either PvP or Trials. My one good passive - boosted potion effects - got gutted.

My new passive gives me a 6% return on my primary attributes upon drinking a potion. Let's think about what that 6% means. Let's propose a character with 2.6k health 2.3k magicka, and 1.7k stamina, using live numbers for easy comparison. These stats are probably along the lines of what most magicka builds have, assuming they ate blue food (Fortified Sweetrolls).

6% of 2.6k = 156 health
6% of 2.3k = 138 magicka
6% of 1.7k = 102 stamina

As a magicka build, my magicka regen already around 138. For the other stats, this is around double a single regen tick. Our most unique racial stat gives us the equivalent of a +3 health regen only if we use potions every 45s. For the other attributes, even less. In sum, the return on our attributes:
1. Provides too small of a burst to be of immediate use.
2. Equals a stat increase that would be close to unnoticeable.
3. Requires us to chug potions every 45s, regardless of our build.

Moreover, the return is useless when at full health/magicka. Now compare these passives with the damage bonuses that High and Dark Elves receive or the crit bonuses of Khajiits.

Either give us a race change, or help out those races with crappy passives.

dodgehopper_ESO

I don't like it simply because it tastes like scam to me. All they have to do to make tens of thousands of dollars is scam a bunch of players into playing one race that is slightly overpowered, then 'fix' the race so that people go to the next overpowered race. I hate it because it motivates the developers to do evil things. I'd much rather they simply make races and classes more equivalent, or do away with class distinction altogether.

olsborg

Id dump a fair amount of crowns into the crownstore if it alowed me to change race and/or alliance. Or even class.

Tandor

Not needed, difficult to implement, and not going to happen.

Navaya

Instead of a race change they should just balance the extremely OP %bonus racial stats. Example: Bosmer get 3% more stamina and that's it! Imperials get 12% more HP and 10% more stamina. And now with the soft/hard caps gone, those % bonus stats is gonna be soooooooooooooooooooooo strong.

So yeah, fix the race passives. A race change isn't gonna balance a thing.

Iluvrien

Navaya wrote: »

So yeah, fix the race passives. A race change isn't gonna balance a thing.

^This. With big shiny brass knobs on.

Giving people the ability to shift from one race to the next isn't going to fix the underlying problem of the massive impact that unbalanced racials seem to have.

ZOS could head this one off at the pass by thinking of a less min/maxable way to express the individual racial identities of the different races... or just decreasing the impact of the individual passives.

nerevarine1138

Erock25 wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Sure. Why not. I'd agree to this to be added to the crown store just so that I never have to see someone whining about this in the forums again. ZOS, allow it! Where do I sign the petition?

^This.

Personally I find the concept of race changing repugnant, but seeing as some useful person creates a new thread about it on pretty much a weekly basis I would argue in favour of a free one-time race change if that really did mean that I would never have to encounter this topic on the boards. Ever again. Ever. Again.

I mean the last thread on this subject had activity up until 2 days ago. Really?!

Just for you, I will keep bringing it up forever, and ever, and ever. Even if we have it in game, I will fight for the right to race change.

Since factions are tied to races, changing races could theoretically change your faction. That being said changing factions would mean having to give up all experience in you main zone as it would become a Vet zone.

Not if you have the Imperial edition.

You mean the Explorer's Pack. And this is actually the most serious issue with a proposed race change option. Either:

1. It completely invalidates one of the biggest bonuses of the Explorer's Pack by giving everyone the chance to have any race in any alliance. Or...
2. They switch your alliance as well, creating massive issues with quest progress, and potentially opening up the door for exploitation (extra XP, skill points from repeating quests, etc.).

Gidorick

what if ZOS just flat out sold experience and Skill points in the Crown Store? $5 a skill point. $10 for 10,000xp?

Varicite

Erock25 wrote: »

Not if you have the Imperial edition.

That is actually the Explorer's Pack preorder bonus that lets you create any race in any faction. Imperial Edition just lets you create Imperials in any faction.

Shameless plug: My case for race change:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150659/lets-talk-about-argonians-race-change-please/p1

Nestor

Erock25 wrote: »

Not if you have the Imperial edition.

Imperial Edition just allows you to play an Imperial, it does not allow you to play any race in any faction.

So, basically you want to implement a change that requires everyone to have the Explorer Pack Pre-Order bonus? Because just having the Imperial edition allows you to play an Imperial, but your still race limited by factions.

For all the time you have been asking for this, you could have rolled several characters and gotten them to VR14 rather than waiting around for them to fix something you can fix yourself (by rolling another character)

Erock25

It is just hilarious to me that people would get upset having an option that they never have to use. On one hand they say racials aren't that powerful while at the same time vehemently disagreeing with the option to change race because it will allow people to switch to the powerful races.

If ZOS did away with all racial passives besides 2% here and there I would be fine with it, but currently my khajit is very underpowered in a magicka spec compared to dunmer, altmer, breton.

And for the people who say I could have just rerolled by now, WHY IS THAT MY JOB WHEN ZOS CHANGED UP THE CLASS I PLAYED. What was given to stamina sorcs in 1.6 and what was taken away? Answer is a lot more was taken away than given. I will never be able to get as high of an alliance rank as I have on my current Sorc and it will take a ridiculous amount of time to get all of those achievement again.

If you don't want race changes, fine, but being against it enough to post in a thread about it and belittle the people who ask for it is just sad. How would it affect your game at all if others could buy race changes?

Nestor wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Not if you have the Imperial edition.

Imperial Edition just allows you to play an Imperial, it does not allow you to play any race in any faction.

So, basically you want to implement a change that requires everyone to have the Explorer Pack Pre-Order bonus? Because just having the Imperial edition allows you to play an Imperial, but your still race limited by factions.

For all the time you have been asking for this, you could have rolled several characters and gotten them to VR14 rather than waiting around for them to fix something you can fix yourself (by rolling another character)

If it isn't clear by now from the other couple of people who corrected me, I said Imperial Edition when I meant Explorer's Pack.

Rook_Master

No race changes. Never. Unless you want everyone in this game to be all Dunmer or Imperial. Instead, racials need to be balanced. The emphasis should be on diversity. Let's take our head out of the sand please on the issue of +% to stat racial bonuses being unbalanced in 1.6. Some races are flat out better than others. *Cough*Imperial*Cough*.

No nerfs, just buff up the other races please.

supernico

Rook_Master wrote: »

No race changes. Never. Unless you want everyone in this game to be all Dunmer or Imperial. Instead, racials need to be balanced. The emphasis should be on diversity. Let's take our head out of the sand please on the issue of +% to stat racial bonuses being unbalanced in 1.6. Some races are flat out better than others. *Cough*Imperial*Cough*.

No nerfs, just buff up the other races please.

why do you say that? An important amount of players chosed one or other race based on roleplay, faction or just look.
p.s. in 1.6 dunmer and imperial might be the least optimal races for many of the builds.

why are some people against race change anyways...

#freeracechange

Varicite

supernico wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

No race changes. Never. Unless you want everyone in this game to be all Dunmer or Imperial. Instead, racials need to be balanced. The emphasis should be on diversity. Let's take our head out of the sand please on the issue of +% to stat racial bonuses being unbalanced in 1.6. Some races are flat out better than others. *Cough*Imperial*Cough*.

No nerfs, just buff up the other races please.

why do you say that? An important amount of players chosed one or other race based on roleplay, faction or just look.
p.s. in 1.6 dunmer and imperial might be the least optimal races for many of the builds.

why are some people against race change anyways...

#freeracechange

Some of us chose our race based on the information available to us in the game a year ago. The game changed. My racial passive changed COMPLETELY w/out warning.

Sure, I would love to see all of the races on equal footing. My Argonian isn't going to hold her breath, and she can hold her breath a loooooong time. At least they didn't take that away too.

tombpyreb16_ESO

Actually, on my current stam NB build, i use all of the 4 converted abillities as magica dump. It is not an advantage that they now all consume stam, since the DW/Twohander/bow builds will then consume 100% stam on dps. This will give the nb stam users a pretty big dps dive, not an advantage. As it is now, you use your stam for dps and defense, and since whatever build will have around 2k magica (0 points) just sitting there, its very good to have magica dps or booster skills. Those will now be gone.

On the same note, the DK magica aoe dps builds will feel the suffering rom the stam conversions, the only nice buff (molten weapons) is now pretty much useless. So its not an upgrade for everyone else. I do sympathise with you, i had to retire my flame aoe DK, due to multiple nerfs. Couldnt hit ST requirem,ents in raids after 1.5.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

tombpyreb16_ESO wrote: »

Actually, on my current stam NB build, i use all of the 4 converted abillities as magica dump. It is not an advantage that they now all consume stam, since the DW/Twohander/bow builds will then consume 100% stam on dps. This will give the nb stam users a pretty big dps dive, not an advantage. As it is now, you use your stam for dps and defense, and since whatever build will have around 2k magica (0 points) just sitting there, its very good to have magica dps or booster skills. Those will now be gone.

On the same note, the DK magica aoe dps builds will feel the suffering rom the stam conversions, the only nice buff (molten weapons) is now pretty much useless. So its not an upgrade for everyone else. I do sympathise with you, i had to retire my flame aoe DK, due to multiple nerfs. Couldnt hit ST requirem,ents in raids after 1.5.

This is exactly what I'm facing as a NB as well. Reaper's Mark and Mirage will be nice though.

Digiman

Erock25 wrote: »

It still seems ZOS is on the fence about offering race changes either one time free of charge or in the Crown Store. It is ridiculous to me because the character I created does not exist anymore with the imminent release of 1.6. Every advantage I had as a stamina based Sorcerer is now gone (after getting progressively nerfed throughout the entire existence of the game) and to make things even worse, stamina Sorcs were offered relatively nothing compared to other classes. Below is a list of all the stamina morphs/passives that each class received that will benefit a stamina build.

DK changes that affect stamina builds

Searing Strike

Unstable Flames (morph): This ability now scales off Stamina and Attack Power and costs Stamina. Damage is mitigated by your target’s melee defense statistics.

Fiery Breath

Burning Breath (morph): This ability will now scale off of stamina and weapon power, and is mitigated by your target’s melee defense statistics. This ability now applies the Major Fracture debuff to your target.

Inferno

Flames of Oblivion (morph): This ability now provides the same effect as Inferno, as well as providing the Major Savagery (that is weapon crit) buff while active.

Molten Weapons

This ability will no longer buff allies. Instead, activating Molten Weapons will increase your heavy attack damage by 40% for 7 seconds. The duration increases with each additional rank.

Igneous Weapons (morph): Using a heavy attack while this ability is active will increase its duration by one second.

Molten Armaments (morph): This ability now increases the extra damage against low health targets.

Slightly reduced the cost of Molten Weapons and its morphs.

Earthen Heart

Mountain’s Blessing: This passive now also grants all allies within 30 meters the buff Minor Brutality for 10 seconds at Rank I, or 20 seconds at Rank II.

NB changes that affect stamina builds

Assassins Blade

Killer’s Blade (morph): This is now a stamina-based ability. The heal from this ability will now be applied if your target dies within 2 seconds of the ability being used, regardless of who killed the target.

Teleport Strike

Ambush: This ability now uses stamina instead of magicka, and applies the Minor Berserk buff on the next attack.

Mark Target

This ability now grants the Major Breach and Major Fracture buffs.
Removed the penalty from this ability.
This ability can now be cast on any target.
Reduced the cost of this ability by approximately 50%, and reduced the duration to 20 seconds.
Piercing Mark (morph): The duration of this ability now scales with ability ranks up to a maximum of 30 seconds.
Reaper’s Mark (morph): This ability now grants the Major Berserk buff for 8 seconds after the target is killed.

Veiled Strike

Surprise Attack (morph): This morph is now a stamina-based ability, now applies the Major Fracture debuff, and will no longer reduce your target’s armor if they dodge the initial attack.

Drain Power

The damage caused by Drain Power no longer scales with the number of targets hit. Instead, you will receive a Major Brutality buff when damaging at least one target.
Power Extraction (morph): This ability now scales off weapon damage and stamina instead of magicka and spell damage. The damage has also been increased by 10%.

Templar changes that affect stamina builds

Puncturing Strikes

Biting Jabs (morph): This ability now scales off stamina and weapon power, and now also provides the Major Savagery buff.

Piercing Javelin

Binding Javelin (morph): This ability now scales off stamina and weapon power.

Backlash

Power of Light (morph): This ability now applies the Minor Fracture debuff to your target, and the damage caps are derived from your maximum stamina.

Aedric Spear

Burning Light: The damage from this passive is now derived from your highest stats (stamina or magicka based).

Aedric Spear

Balance Warrior: Increased the weapon damage from this passive to 3% at Rank I, and 6% at Rank II.

Sorc changes that affect stamina builds

Bound Armor

Bound Armaments (morph): This ability now costs Stamina instead of Magicka, gives you a bonus to stamina instead of magicka, and increases the damage done by heavy attacks.

Dark Exchange

Dark Deal (morph): This ability now converts magicka into health and stamina.

Overload

Overload and Power Overload will now properly scale their damage off Weapon Damage and Stamina in the event that they are higher than Spell Power and Magicka.

If you read through all of the above lists, you may have noticed that DK got 2 attacks scaled on stamina and various stamina build buffs, NB got 4 attacks scaled on stamina and various stamina build buffs, Templar got 3 attacks scaled on stamina and various stamina build buffs, while the Sorc got only ONE ultimate and zero basic attacks scaled on stamina and only one stamina buff that comes in the form of near useless toggle. Bound Armaments may find its way into some builds for sure, but it is tough to stomach using 2 slots for it. Dark Deal is totally and completely useless. There is no use for a channel in melee range without a way to quickly create distance. As for the Overload change, I think all ultimates should scale on stamina+weap or magicka + spell anyways and I'm surprised any class ultimates are forcing people to go into a magicka spec. Overall I am very underwhelmed with what was offered to the stamina sorc.

In addition to what we were given (or lack thereof) in 1.6, stamina Sorcs have also lost the only benefits they ever had in the game prior to 1.6. The only thing a stamina Sorc had going for it was that it could stack weapon dmg higher than any other class. With the new buff system, Critical Surge has become completely redundant with other cheaper and longer lasting skills like Rally. Also in 1.6.3, stamina Sorc lost the 10% cost reduction in the Storm Calling tree, which is a HUGE nerf for Crit Surge costs, Bolt Escape costs, and Lightning Form costs, which just happen to be three of the best and only Sorc abilities that a stamina build will use. Crit Surge was already about 40% or so of my magicka bar as a stamina Sorc in 1.6.2 and now it will be even worse.

The character I rolled on the first day of early access was a stamina build that would not have a nerfed streak that cost more with subsequent casts and cost more in general. The character I rolled on the first day of early access had a significant weapon damage bonus over every other class. The character I rolled on the first day of early access didn't have a internal cooldown on the one ability that synergized well with stamina, Critical Surge. When ZOS changes up a skill big time, they give you your ability points back and let you decide again if you want that skill. My class and choice of going stamina (which is why I rolled khajit for the extra crit for crit surge values) has completely changed, and I deserve an opportunity to change my race because of this.

If they implement a class change for free, then they freely admit the class is utterly broken and will never get proper attention again.

Eitherway I agree that ZoS combat lead Wrobel has really dropped the ball and out right ignored the problems with sorcerers only giving token changes to class, applying game breaking changed to others. He just doesn't know or doesn't care about the class direction enough to make it a proper ranged DPS class.

I am thankful ZoS pushed the patch to the first week of march, but Wrobel is going to sit on his hands on the sorcerer changes I would rather they patch it now and get it over with.

Xjcon wrote: »

I would pay to change my race.

Why did you choose your race?

Seraphyel

Xjcon wrote: »

I would pay to change my race.

I think many would pay for it. The same for a renaming option. Don't know why it isn't there.

Fizzlewizzle

I personally would much rather change my Class then my Race.
I don't mind being an Argonian, nor do i mind being a Templar. But being an Argonian NB would be a bit more fitting for my own playstyle.
(I don't want to re-roll. I like my name, i like how i look... and i like the fact that i have done so many quests already. I'm not the grinding type, and rerolling means either grinding or doing all those quests again).

If they allowed a Race change they should be forced to keep their name. I would love to see all those Humans/ Elves with strange Argonian-like names.