I don't get the idea

Vis

madangrypally wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

DKs closing their eyes and giving insane solutions to sorcs (1h damage for magicka builds? Really?) is counterproductive.

I do jump into melee range for short burst though even on my Sorcerer but those are more for crystal frag to face at close range moments.

Yes, frag in the face is nice. But if I am in melee range it's usually because reflect is up anyways.

MuseTheDrunkenDragon

ZRage wrote: »

OR maybe not engaging at all just ALT+F4 ?

ALT + f4 is the counter to everything

Cody

Vis wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

ZRage wrote: »

OR maybe not engaging at all just ALT+F4 ?

get out a melee weapon and charge them.

if you don't have a melee weapon, then yes, dont engage. You are perfectly capable of fighting RS.

Magicka sorcs using melee weapons? What are we supposed to do? Tickle them with our 500 dmg light attacks?

that is a weakness of your build then.
and 500 damage? thats actually not too bad for a light attack considering most people have 2.5K-3K HP. that's a kill in only 5-6ish hits!:)

Panda244

Vis wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

I don't avoid any classes on any my DK or my NB, I fight until I die, or I fight until I start backing up to regenerate resources, then I fight again.

ZRage wrote: »

What's the counter if you play ranged character and you enco a DK or group of DK's spamming reflect exactly?

Going back to town and respec character?

Use a melee weapon as an offhand, if you have ranged on both your weapon bars you're an idiot, no offense, no offense at all, but it's silly to run ranged on both bars when combat can get up close and personal, you can't always stay at range, so don't complain if you're 100% ranged and someone closes the difference, as for Reflect spamming DKs.

Fear them as a NB right when Reflect runs out, gives you a small 2-3 second window to hit them with an ability such as crippling grasp or swallow soul, or lethal arrow. On a NB vs a DK it's all about wearing their Stamina down then finishing them with your Ambush - Death Stroke/Soul Tether - Impale burst.

As a Sorcerer, Spam Mage's Wrath and Crystal Shards with Defensive Posture to Reflect the Shards back, use Encase when they get close then Bolt Escape through them. (This is actually the easiest class to kill DK's with when built right, Sorcerer's can legitimately spec into an Anti-DK build if they want to. Not entirely effective in zerg play, it's alright in group play, but excels in 1v1 encounters.)

Disclaimer: I want sorc buffs. No class nerfs, just sorc buffs

Geez, have you used a melee weapon in 1.6 as a magicka build? How do you plan to kill anyone with less than 2k dps? Especially when you are saying sorcs should get into melee range against DKs whose skills excel at melee range? That is truly idiotic (since you like to use that word).

Spam mage's fury? Less than 1.5k dps, no one will die. Use defensive posture? Are you nuts? Have you played 1.6 as a magicka build yet? Do you know how many defensive postures you can use in 1.6 as a magicka build? I should make a video to show how insane a suggestion that is with the new stamina costs. That is all assume you are not losing stamina for other cc and attacks too. Worse yet, you suggest it's balance that to get to half the dps a dk can do, a sorc should have to drain both his magicka and stamina and pray his reflect times perfectly? It's obvious you just want a pure ez-mode.

I know you want to protect your dk, but you fail to realize how the dynamics have changed with 1.6. 1v1s are a dps race, and with 1 reflect a second DKs have lost nothing, while with stamina costs sorcs have fallen further behind scales.

Why can't you get behind better class balance and support buffs for sorcs?

@Vis calm the almighty bewbs down, I do support Sorcerer buffs, but the entire italicized section in paranthesis I listed for a Sorcerer killing DK build is amazingly effective in 1.5, that's why I listed it, you slowly tear away at the DK over time, and you don't get him in Melee range silly, you get him to charge you, encase or daedric mines him to stick him in place, and then bolt escape through him, turn around, rinse repeat. It's not going to kill him outright, but in 1v1 situations you can't die unless you screw up. Don't get all hostile on me, what I listed works in 1.5, and it works well. I said it wasn't effective for zerg play and it's meh in group play, please reread.

Edit: As far as DPS in PvP goes, it means absolutely nothing whatsoever unless you're doing 0 lol. The average DPS for 1v1 situations in PvP is like 200-300, until you get their block down, and like 600-1.4k in AoE, depending on the targets surrounding you, and your damage.

ZRage

The main problem is one class lose 50% of it's resource to take 20% health of the other and they just one click heal to full using 10% of resource LOL.

Yesterday I perfectly sniped Temp on live 2 hits for 1.1k with applied -50% healing + stun (life values of sniper) the guy just insta healed 2 clicks after breaking free. I can't belive they are nerfing defile to 30%. Healing done per resource cost compared to damage done is just out of scale in this game.

I can see this meta in half year people running DK with 50k hp and 2 click heal self for 25k while holding block in same time, RIDIC

Xeniph

ZRage wrote: »

OK, looks like some people don't understand what I mean

The point is it doesn't matter at all if I can swap my weapon to melee, the point is such mechanic like reflect projectile is no-brainer and it's big hard counter which virtually forces you to play certain build and renders other useless (ranged builds).

It's just silly takes 1 DK to tank / take resource in cyro because the can just reflect everything back at NPC, same goes down to PvE and core PvP. It's just broken mechanic and need to be fixed, some effort must be included into such OP ability (like correct timing at least). This skill is 10 times better than reflect from 1h and shield skill line, lol.

I know that devs don't want to go with drastic changes to classes, DK is now dominant class and obviously this will go along with a lot of rage, crying and suicide letters but balance is balance.

This current change limiting reflective scale to 4 projectile isn't enough in my opinion, it won't even change much. This is pretty simple when people see reflective scale the simply STOP attacking because who the hell will risk loosing their resource and on top of that dealing damage to self lol. On top of that they can spam this to reflect up to 50 projectiles that is enough to kill self 10 times over.

You have set items on yourself and certain build but whatever, you got to swap weapon and go melee with ranged char.

To those who say people playing with 2 ranged weapons are idiots YOU are just silly, lol seriously which melee character have ranged weapon in their second bar. The answer is maybe 1%, the reason is simple it is current meta period. Are melee chars forced to go ranged because of some idiotic skills that render melee useless?, hell the fu*k no.

It's just too much, perma block+ skill spam- auto-heals in 2 click and reflective armors WTF.

Just gonna throw a few things out there.

Bombard is completely immune to Flapity-Flap, locks the target down, and is spammable with good gear. ( No weapon swap needed!) Eventually they will run out of stamina rolling+charge.

Fear is not Blockable ( Litterally every NB should have this skill slotted)

Shades ( Either Morph) is a really nice stamina drain, assuming you use the teleport properly.

If any Magicka, aka Flap spamming DK, can manage his stamina better than you in a stamina spec. Well sir, you need to take a look at your spec/gear/playstyle.

ZRage

Also about this melee weapon on second bar, you guys even know there are build specified items in the game? Like hawk eye set, pact bow set and so on. Even if you can put melee on second bar you are still nowhere close in melee capabilites to those people who build strict melee. That's why I think builds / skills that completly shutdown ranged shouldn't exist not to mention that there already is hard counter skill line for anti ranged called 1h and shield perma blocking while spamming skills in same time.

It's just silly when people stay in rain of arrows under siege >.<

The nerf to defile is also sick, I still think it's very bad idea, they just don't realize that healing effectvness in this game is way too strong, people get thousands of healing per sec in live server.

Lethal arrow even with 50% you can spam it at templar and he just spam heal to full health anyway that's how broken it is, yet they nerf defile to -30% I got serious doubts if that's a good idea.

Dredlord

madangrypally wrote: »

Would be nice to get a melee based magical weapon like a scepter or melee based quarterstaff.

I was just talking about the same thing the other day and wondering why we don't already have that.

Options for gaining back resources on heavy attacks:
ranged stam - check
ranged magica - check
melee stam - check
melee magica - hey wtf?

Would be some great options there with scepter

Scepter and shield, dual scepters sapping back some mana on heavy attacks

sword and scepter sapping back a little of both stam and mana

Panda244

Xeniph wrote: »

ZRage wrote: »

OK, looks like some people don't understand what I mean

The point is it doesn't matter at all if I can swap my weapon to melee, the point is such mechanic like reflect projectile is no-brainer and it's big hard counter which virtually forces you to play certain build and renders other useless (ranged builds).

It's just silly takes 1 DK to tank / take resource in cyro because the can just reflect everything back at NPC, same goes down to PvE and core PvP. It's just broken mechanic and need to be fixed, some effort must be included into such OP ability (like correct timing at least). This skill is 10 times better than reflect from 1h and shield skill line, lol.

I know that devs don't want to go with drastic changes to classes, DK is now dominant class and obviously this will go along with a lot of rage, crying and suicide letters but balance is balance.

This current change limiting reflective scale to 4 projectile isn't enough in my opinion, it won't even change much. This is pretty simple when people see reflective scale the simply STOP attacking because who the hell will risk loosing their resource and on top of that dealing damage to self lol. On top of that they can spam this to reflect up to 50 projectiles that is enough to kill self 10 times over.

You have set items on yourself and certain build but whatever, you got to swap weapon and go melee with ranged char.

To those who say people playing with 2 ranged weapons are idiots YOU are just silly, lol seriously which melee character have ranged weapon in their second bar. The answer is maybe 1%, the reason is simple it is current meta period. Are melee chars forced to go ranged because of some idiotic skills that render melee useless?, hell the fu*k no.

It's just too much, perma block+ skill spam- auto-heals in 2 click and reflective armors WTF.

Just gonna throw a few things out there.

Bombard is completely immune to Flapity-Flap, locks the target down, and is spammable with good gear. ( No weapon swap needed!) Eventually they will run out of stamina rolling+charge.

Fear is not Blockable ( Litterally every NB should have this skill slotted)

Shades ( Either Morph) is a really nice stamina drain, assuming you use the teleport properly.

If any Magicka, aka Flap spamming DK, can manage his stamina better than you in a stamina spec. Well sir, you need to take a look at your spec/gear/playstyle.

1,928 Stamina and 121 Recovery, in 5 Pieces of Light Armor. Two Stamina Cost Reduction Enchantments, it's easy to manage my Stamina against everything but NBs... Cause Shades, n Fear, n more Fear