Any new news on spellcrafting?

Seraphyel

starkerealm wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

Yep. They not totally abandoned it, but I wouldn't expect it in any time soon.

Yes. And when we blow away those mists of palliation and sweet talk, Spellcrafting will never make it into ESO.

Eh, cryptic managed to get off their collective ass and cram the DOff system into STO. I wouldn't give up hope on seeing Spellcrafting again. Even this year.

This year? Gina said it, it was put on hold. And you think we'll see it this year? I guess after they gave us Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild, Imperial City, Murkmire, Orsinium and the VR removal, right?

Please, get serious. The Spellcrafting topic was dead for half a year, they mentioned it lately and said it was put on hold - there is one obvious thing about Spellcrafting and that's the "fact" that we will never see it - and if I should be mistaken, we'll never see it this year or early next year.

RainfeatherUK

I sincerely doubt they've invested resources in something they have zero intention of implementing.

We still have no idea about the content schedule of the future now that b2p and consoles have arrived. So by all means let that settle, as its a financial priority in determining what resources they have available for all of the upcoming things .

Saying its fact though, is far too presumptious.

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO

.... spellcrafting is literally my main reason i still play. Not too big of fan on trials i just do pvp. Also what i was hoping for because sorcerer spells are mostly useless in pvp.

starkerealm

Seraphyel wrote: »

we'll never see it this year or early next year.

Your prescient powers astound... except, no, they don't.

We'll see. It's February, and we don't know what the schedule post June will look like. Just try not to be too surprised either way.

Seraphyel

RainfeatherUK wrote: »

I sincerely doubt they've invested resources in something they have zero intention of implementing.

That's why they don't want to get rid of the horrible VR, right?

I think every developer put time in something that was scrapped later. It's how it works. I really would love to see Spellcrafting, but we didn't saw anything from it to be honest and there are a handful of other things in the making.

That it was put on hold just shows how far away Spellcrafting really is, if it's still a topic.

starkerealm

Seraphyel wrote: »

RainfeatherUK wrote: »

I sincerely doubt they've invested resources in something they have zero intention of implementing.

That's why they don't want to get rid of the horrible VR, right?

I think every developer put time in something that was scrapped later. It's how it works. I really would love to see Spellcrafting, but we didn't saw anything from it to be honest and there are a handful of other things in the making.

That it was put on hold just shows how far away Spellcrafting really is, if it's still a topic.

Not really. It just talks about prioritization. If they flub the console launch, it doesn't matter how good, or how close to finished Spellcrafting is. If that gets botched, this whole thing could go down the tubes. So, that's priority number 1.

Or, put another way, if someone sets you kitchen on fire, you don't stop to put the finishing touches on that post you were writing, you deal with the flames first, and then come back to share your "wit."

Spellcrafting could be in raw concept, or in a functional feature complete state for testing. Either way, it's on ice while things that cannot be ignored are worked on.

WraithAzraiel

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

Yep. They not totally abandoned it, but I wouldn't expect it in any time soon.

Yep, this is basically correct. Spellcrafting isn't actively being worked on, it's just on the back burner for now.

That sucks. Did they give any kind of info on when it'd be picked up again for active work?

I'm really hoping it doesn't just fall off the radar to be lost forever.

A lot of people were really looking forward to it. Hell, even if it wasn't true Spellcrafting a la Morrowind and you just can't make godspells at least make it so we can craft a set number of legit, lore-based spells.

I know there's hundreds of us that just want to be able throw a damn fireball at mobs, no matter what class they are. Or cast Night Eye. Or Burning Hands. Or the ESO equivalent of Force Lightning.

I think allowing too much customization and too much variety will make it ultimately unfeasible. Have it work like enchanting or something. There's a set number of types of glyphs you can make? So shall there be a set number of spells you can create.

It just seems to me that what was described and showcased in the QuakeCon video, is a bit too big to chew for the coders and devs and has many many many possibilities for exploitation or other gamebreaking bugginess.

Just my thoughts on the matter

starkerealm

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

It just seems to me that what was described and showcased in the QuakeCon video, is a bit too big to chew for the coders and devs and has many many many possibilities for exploitation or other gamebreaking bugginess.

Just my thoughts on the matter

For what it's worth, I do really hope you're wrong about that, Wraith.

Seraphyel

starkerealm wrote: »

Spellcrafting could be in raw concept, or in a functional feature complete state for testing. Either way, it's on ice while things that cannot be ignored are worked on.

Where is Orsinium? Where is the Imperial City? Murkmire? They work on these things for over half a year now and we haven't seen ANYTHING about it. Some impressions, that's it.

They started working on those things long before the announced B2P transition, those things were announced when, June, July? That's 8 months ago.

So, within 8 months they couldn't give us a glimpse on any of that?

They are working on things that can't be ignored... yeah, sure about that. The B2P transition and the console launch are the silver lining on the horizon, but they announced things long before that and we got NOTHING out of those things, not even some detailed information.

So excuse me when I am pessimistic, but to be optimistic when you think about the past is just impossible for me.

Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on rude comments.

starkerealm

Seraphyel wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Spellcrafting could be in raw concept, or in a functional feature complete state for testing. Either way, it's on ice while things that cannot be ignored are worked on.

I think you are a bit delusional.

Where is Orsinium? Where is the Imperial City? Murkmire? They work on these things for over half a year now and we haven't seen ANYTHING about it. Some impressions, that's it.

They started working on those things long before the announced B2P transition, those things were announced when, June, July? That's 8 months ago.

So, within 8 months they couldn't give us a glimpse on any of that?

They are working on things that can't be ignored... yeah, sure about that. The B2P transition and the console launch are the silver lining on the horizon, but they announced things long before that and we got NOTHING out of those things, not even some detailed information.

So excuse me when I am pessimistic, but to be optimistic when you think about the past is just impossible for me.

Just a suspicion, but this is your first MMO, isn't it?

Tamanous

ZOS clearly stated that EVERYTHING is on hold until the console and B2P transition is completed AND running smoothly. It was painfully clear and openly stated that an extended period of time would interrupt content planning and development.

What does this mean? It means what Gina stated: "... Spellcrafting isn't actively being worked on...".

There is no conspiracy. You do not go to forums and stomp feet demanding information. You wait until the transition is complete and hear official updates toward forward moving content development.

Patience ... got any? You have the freedom to explore other gaming options until such a time nurturing words leave the lips of ZOS to serenade you back.

I do not defend the decisions from ZOS. I merely deal with facts as they are presented to me. I find no reason to stress over things I have no control over.

Seraphyel

starkerealm wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Spellcrafting could be in raw concept, or in a functional feature complete state for testing. Either way, it's on ice while things that cannot be ignored are worked on.

I think you are a bit delusional.

Where is Orsinium? Where is the Imperial City? Murkmire? They work on these things for over half a year now and we haven't seen ANYTHING about it. Some impressions, that's it.

They started working on those things long before the announced B2P transition, those things were announced when, June, July? That's 8 months ago.

So, within 8 months they couldn't give us a glimpse on any of that?

They are working on things that can't be ignored... yeah, sure about that. The B2P transition and the console launch are the silver lining on the horizon, but they announced things long before that and we got NOTHING out of those things, not even some detailed information.

So excuse me when I am pessimistic, but to be optimistic when you think about the past is just impossible for me.

Just a suspicion, but this is your first MMO, isn't it?

No, it's... I don't know. The 10-15th within 10 years maybe?

Tamanous wrote: »

Patience ... got any? You have the freedom to explore other gaming options until such a time nurturing words leave the lips of ZOS to serenade you back.

I do not defend the decisions from ZOS. I merely deal with facts as they are presented to me. I find no reason to stress over things I have no control over.

And again:

Long before this transition those things were announced. What exactly hindered them on finishing them? Are 4-5 months not enough time? Sorry, no excuse at all.

starkerealm

Seraphyel wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Spellcrafting could be in raw concept, or in a functional feature complete state for testing. Either way, it's on ice while things that cannot be ignored are worked on.

I think you are a bit delusional.

Where is Orsinium? Where is the Imperial City? Murkmire? They work on these things for over half a year now and we haven't seen ANYTHING about it. Some impressions, that's it.

They started working on those things long before the announced B2P transition, those things were announced when, June, July? That's 8 months ago.

So, within 8 months they couldn't give us a glimpse on any of that?

They are working on things that can't be ignored... yeah, sure about that. The B2P transition and the console launch are the silver lining on the horizon, but they announced things long before that and we got NOTHING out of those things, not even some detailed information.

So excuse me when I am pessimistic, but to be optimistic when you think about the past is just impossible for me.

Just a suspicion, but this is your first MMO, isn't it?

No, it's... I don't know. The 10-15th within 10 years maybe?

Then maybe you should think back on the content development cycles for those games a little more carefully.

Seraphyel

Tamanous wrote: »

Then maybe you should think back on the content development cycles for those games a little more carefully.

I am totally aware of them, but I tend to be realistic nowadays and have a much more realistic approach - having in mind what Zenimax said and (didn't) deliver in the last 11 months - on things. Right now it's more likely that Spellcrafting will never make it into the game than we will see it in the "near" future.

Honestly, it's just naive to think everything is fine.

Imperial City, Murkmire, Orsinium - maybe that will be the DLCs we see this year. And you think Spellcrafting is somewhere there? Nope.

starkerealm

Seraphyel wrote: »

Tamanous wrote: »

Then maybe you should think back on the content development cycles for those games a little more carefully.

I am totally aware of them, but I tend to be realistic nowadays and have a much more realistic approach - having in mind what Zenimax said and (didn't) deliver in the last 11 months - on things. Right now it's more likely that Spellcrafting will never make it into the game than we will see it in the "near" future.

Because if the massive layoffs that never happened? Right, gotcha. Cool story "bro."

WraithAzraiel

starkerealm wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

It just seems to me that what was described and showcased in the QuakeCon video, is a bit too big to chew for the coders and devs and has many many many possibilities for exploitation or other gamebreaking bugginess.

Just my thoughts on the matter

For what it's worth, I do really hope you're wrong about that, Wraith.

So do I, but aside from trying to figure out a way to make it profitable or save it for a later DLC what other reason would they have to put it in drydock?

Seraphyel

starkerealm wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

Tamanous wrote: »

Then maybe you should think back on the content development cycles for those games a little more carefully.

I am totally aware of them, but I tend to be realistic nowadays and have a much more realistic approach - having in mind what Zenimax said and (didn't) deliver in the last 11 months - on things. Right now it's more likely that Spellcrafting will never make it into the game than we will see it in the "near" future.

Because if the massive layoffs that never happened? Right, gotcha. Cool story "bro."

Oh, no those layoffs were something "serious"?

I just remember fanboys saying those layoffs were totally normal after an MMORPG went live, those layoffs are what always happens because those employees are not needed anymore... and now you say those layoffs are the reason for that? That's a bit detrimental, isn't it?

I don't know your position before the B2P announcement, but I just get reminded of those fanboys.

And again, layoffs may have happened, but Zenimax gave us NOTHING from the things they announced more than 8 months ago. So I think it's normal to be sceptical.

Cuyler

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

Yep. They not totally abandoned it, but I wouldn't expect it in any time soon.

Yep, this is basically correct. Spellcrafting isn't actively being worked on, it's just on the back burner for now.

It's official then, giving up on sorc for now. No way I'll keep using the garbage class skills or pets indefinitely and the companies outlook on sorcs currently is just laughable (as evident in the v1.6.x patch changes).

Spellcrafting gave me hope but that's gone now sooooo.... Hello DK!

starkerealm

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

It just seems to me that what was described and showcased in the QuakeCon video, is a bit too big to chew for the coders and devs and has many many many possibilities for exploitation or other gamebreaking bugginess.

Just my thoughts on the matter

For what it's worth, I do really hope you're wrong about that, Wraith.

So do I, but aside from trying to figure out a way to make it profitable or save it for a later DLC what other reason would they have to put it in drydock?

Honestly what I said to what's'is name applies. The console launch needs to go off without a hitch. And, as we learned, this game gets downright squirrelly when you stick too many people on the servers.

So, no, it is actually somewhat credible that they yanked people off of everything else to iron that out.

1.6 hits, because it's too close to launch not to, and it's part of the gold build for the consoles.

Consoles are launching early in June, figure, what? Six weeks for cert from gold. So that's people getting back to their normal jobs in mid April or early May. At that point, top priority has got to be to get the vet system out of the game as fast as possible, before too many of the console players hit the vet ranks and grow attached to gold vet 14 sets.

Also, Wrothgar's got to be a high priority, just to have a DLC release after the console launch. It wouldn't surprise me if they're pushing hard to actually get it as day 1, though realistically it needs to come out with in a couple months of launch. If that pushes the IC back or not is anyone's guess.

*shrugs*

Granted, moving people around like that usually causes more problems than it solves, in my experience. But, that's never stopped a corporate mandate before.

WraithAzraiel

Seraphyel wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Spellcrafting could be in raw concept, or in a functional feature complete state for testing. Either way, it's on ice while things that cannot be ignored are worked on.

I think you are a bit delusional.

Where is Orsinium? Where is the Imperial City? Murkmire? They work on these things for over half a year now and we haven't seen ANYTHING about it. Some impressions, that's it.

They started working on those things long before the announced B2P transition, those things were announced when, June, July? That's 8 months ago.

So, within 8 months they couldn't give us a glimpse on any of that?

They are working on things that can't be ignored... yeah, sure about that. The B2P transition and the console launch are the silver lining on the horizon, but they announced things long before that and we got NOTHING out of those things, not even some detailed information.

So excuse me when I am pessimistic, but to be optimistic when you think about the past is just impossible for me.

Just a suspicion, but this is your first MMO, isn't it?

No, it's... I don't know. The 10-15th within 10 years maybe?

Tamanous wrote: »

Patience ... got any? You have the freedom to explore other gaming options until such a time nurturing words leave the lips of ZOS to serenade you back.

I do not defend the decisions from ZOS. I merely deal with facts as they are presented to me. I find no reason to stress over things I have no control over.

And again:

Long before this transition those things were announced. What exactly hindered them on finishing them? Are 4-5 months not enough time? Sorry, no excuse at all.

What hindered them was ZOS' decision to change their model for the game, more pointedly the decision to go B2P. I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say that Sleeping Giant started talks with ZOS AFTER the QuakeCon video.

I'm going to go ahead and further assume that at the culmination of those talks, ZOS went back to their ZOS cave and made decisions to put some things on ice and continue working on the less intensive pieces until it became time to let the cat out of the bag about B2P.

THEN to give themselves EVEN MORE TIME (as they rightly should take, because great content isn't just slapped together) they announced that they would not be working on ANY other projects until the transition is over and the ship is running smoothly.


That's just simple business sense. They're taking a massive step with the console launch. If it tanks, then they lost a ton of money and time.

So my fingers and toes are all crossed for ZOS. I hope they're successful in their endeavor so I can keep playing their game.

Seraphyel

starkerealm wrote: »

Consoles are launching early in June, figure, what? Six weeks for cert from gold. So that's people getting back to their normal jobs in mid April or early May. At that point, top priority has got to be to get the vet system out of the game as fast as possible, before too many of the console players hit the vet ranks and grow attached to gold vet 14 sets.

They already stated that the VR will be here for a long time after the console launch.

starkerealm

Seraphyel wrote: »

What hindered them was ZOS' decision to change their model for the game, more pointedly the decision to go B2P. I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say that Sleeping Giant started talks with ZOS AFTER the QuakeCon video.

The reasonable bet here was Microsoft. Bethesda's managed to leverage them around in the past, and the sticking point with ESO was the XBL Gold requirement, and (apparently) Microsoft demanding a cut of the XBone sub fees on top of that. By last October, they managed to convince Sony to wave the Playstation Plus (?) subscription fee, for ESO users. But, it seems that Microsoft held out.

In part, this might actually be the single reason the console launch was delayed so long.

In that light, it's quite possible the buy to play contingency was in place before the game even launched.

But, moving people around? I can't prove anything, but this smells like executive fiat to me. There really are CEOs out there that think if you hire nine women you can make a baby in a month.

Faulgor

Too bad. Should have been a priority. But then, so should have been everything shown at QuakeCon.

I'm somewhat sorry for Nick Konkle, as it seemed to be hist pet project. I hope he can get back to it asap.

RainfeatherUK

Seraphyel wrote: »

RainfeatherUK wrote: »

I sincerely doubt they've invested resources in something they have zero intention of implementing.

That's why they don't want to get rid of the horrible VR, right?

I think every developer put time in something that was scrapped later. It's how it works. I really would love to see Spellcrafting, but we didn't saw anything from it to be honest and there are a handful of other things in the making.

That it was put on hold just shows how far away Spellcrafting really is, if it's still a topic.

Well the VR subject is a touchy one, primarily because its already implemented and the cause of a shed tonne of grief.

Perhaps that applies to an unwillingness to implement Spellcrafting yes indeed, since they dont want the same upheaval over a incomplete/ill focused system no doubt.

That said; When I approached the devs during AuA, Eric Wrobel and Chris Srasz were far more optimistic about Spellcrafting progress than they were the PvP aspect of the justice system - which Matt Firor actively said was a scary subject and still a big 'if' on implementation.

As core members of the design team I see little reason for them to promote the development of the spellcrafting system so proactively in the background (albeit yes its on hold for now) if it wasnt being worked upon up till that point in at least a fairly substantial way. After all, the aforementioned PvP aspect was completely avoided in comparison.

Knowing how many people want the system, I wouldnt expect it to disappear from the to-do list at all. What I do accept is that its release priority will shift depending on how popular the idea is with the console crowd.

On that side of things, being that I know some of them - They are looking forward to the game much as many Pc players were in the beginnig; I.e 'post skyrim players'. Based upon that; I think they will want more class freedom and are likely, if they stick with the game, to give ZoS both the budget and the insentive to further development in the system.

Truth is though, we will see!

vovus69

Well, if there is no spellcrafting in the near future - that really sucks. This was the main thing which I was expected from all this reshuffling. Will see - perhaps they will come up with some content soon (like Wrothgar/Murkmire/etc) for solo players. I am not in PVP and don't play groups. So solo endgame content is kinda rare thing for me. I can do solo craglorn (not the dungeons though) but I need regear for that all the time which is kinda boring. Recently I am doing solo dungeons in Cyrodiil and so far so good, but it is getting old soon. Will see.

RainfeatherUK

I am sure theres a ton of frustration, not like all the posts and questions gave that away

Still, the champ system and armor/skill changes are a big shift in the meta and builds of many characters. It needs to settle down somewhat and get the kinks ironed out before we can really afford a more versatile system, because no doubt it'll still need careful balancing in itself.

The game is improving slowly but theres still alot of tinkering to be done. If we cant sort this armor debacle out, we arent really ready for spellcraft.

vovus69

Yeah, unfortunately, spell crafting was not the priority from the get go. How well this champ system and justice stuff will work, but I would not hold my breath. It might take year or so to iron this mess out... I wish they would start with spellcrafting though...

Cogo

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

Yep. They not totally abandoned it, but I wouldn't expect it in any time soon.

Yep, this is basically correct. Spellcrafting isn't actively being worked on, it's just on the back burner for now.

Could you confirm that it has been worked on quite a bit like Nick Konkle showed us in july and at the guild summit?
I dont expect it to be what you want and you might need to redo it.

I am just curious about the work you did on it. The pics you shown and the system details you published.
This would go a long way for me to believe you are working on it or something simular.

RainfeatherUK

Well, stands to reason they would want to get the core game straight first before they go elsewhere.

Fingers crossed, its early days and games take time unfortunately.

WraithAzraiel

starkerealm wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

What hindered them was ZOS' decision to change their model for the game, more pointedly the decision to go B2P. I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say that Sleeping Giant started talks with ZOS AFTER the QuakeCon video.

The reasonable bet here was Microsoft. Bethesda's managed to leverage them around in the past, and the sticking point with ESO was the XBL Gold requirement, and (apparently) Microsoft demanding a cut of the XBone sub fees on top of that. By last October, they managed to convince Sony to wave the Playstation Plus (?) subscription fee, for ESO users. But, it seems that Microsoft held out.

In part, this might actually be the single reason the console launch was delayed so long.

In that light, it's quite possible the buy to play contingency was in place before the game even launched.

But, moving people around? I can't prove anything, but this smells like executive fiat to me. There really are CEOs out there that think if you hire nine women you can make a baby in a month.

The quote in this post is messed up, since it's got Seraphyel's name tacked on to what I posted.