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@ZOS - Do you intend all classes to be able to focus on stamina or magicka?
Erock25
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This is a serious question that I would love answered. @ZOS, I would really appreciate an answer to this question because I want to know if I should even bother continuing to try and get a stamina Sorc balanced with other builds out there of other classes.
I bring this up because of the repeated nerfing of a stamina Sorc build on top of the fact that you provided the weakest and least influential class stamina morphs to the Sorcerer.
DK changes that affect stamina builds
NB changes that affect stamina builds
Templar changes that affect stamina builds
Sorc changes that affect stamina builds
If you read through all of the above lists, you may have noticed that DK got 2 attacks scaled on stamina and various stamina build buffs, NB got 4 attacks scaled on stamina and various stamina build buffs, Templar got 3 attacks scaled on stamina and various stamina build buffs, while the Sorc got only ONE ultimate and zero basic attacks scaled on stamina and only one stamina buff that comes in the form of near useless toggle. Bound Armaments may find its way into some builds for sure, but it is tough to stomach using 2 slots for it. Dark Deal is totally and completely useless. There is no use for a channel in melee range without a way to quickly create distance. As for the Overload change, I think all ultimates should scale on stamina+weap or magicka + spell anyways and I'm surprised any class ultimates are forcing people to go into a magicka spec. Overall I am very underwhelmed with what was offered to the stamina sorc.
In addition to what we were given (or lack thereof) in 1.6, stamina Sorcs have also lost the only benefits they ever had in the game prior to 1.6. The only thing a stamina Sorc had going for it was that it could stack weapon dmg higher than any other class. With the new buff system, Critical Surge has become completely redundant with other cheaper and longer lasting skills like Rally. Also in 1.6.3, stamina Sorc lost the 10% cost reduction in the Storm Calling tree, which is a HUGE nerf for Crit Surge costs, Bolt Escape costs, and Lightning Form costs, which just happen to be three of the best and only Sorc abilities that a stamina build will use. Crit Surge was already about 40% or so of my magicka bar as a stamina Sorc in 1.6.2 and now it will be even worse.
@ZOS ... I know you have a lot on your plate for this update, but unless the answer to my initial question is, 'No, we want only DK, Temp, and NB to be viable in a stamina build,' then please PLEASE consider some buffs for a stamina Sorc. It has been completely ignored and nerfed. This is a post I made a while ago with some suggestions for stamina Sorc. Even with those additions, stamina Sorcs will STILL be in a position of weakness compared to the other classes in a stamina build. We could really use another dmg morph scaling with stamina on top of what I suggested in my linked post and a decrease in cost for Crit Surge and Lightning Form.
Edited by Erock25 on February 17, 2015 10:53PM I bring this up because of the repeated nerfing of a stamina Sorc build on top of the fact that you provided the weakest and least influential class stamina morphs to the Sorcerer.
DK changes that affect stamina builds
Searing Strike
Unstable Flames (morph): This ability now scales off Stamina and Attack Power and costs Stamina. Damage is mitigated by your target’s melee defense statistics.
Fiery Breath
Burning Breath (morph): This ability will now scale off of stamina and weapon power, and is mitigated by your target’s melee defense statistics. This ability now applies the Major Fracture debuff to your target.
Inferno
Flames of Oblivion (morph): This ability now provides the same effect as Inferno, as well as providing the Major Savagery (that is weapon crit) buff while active.
Molten Weapons
This ability will no longer buff allies. Instead, activating Molten Weapons will increase your heavy attack damage by 40% for 7 seconds. The duration increases with each additional rank.
Igneous Weapons (morph): Using a heavy attack while this ability is active will increase its duration by one second.
Molten Armaments (morph): This ability now increases the extra damage against low health targets.
Slightly reduced the cost of Molten Weapons and its morphs.
Earthen Heart
Mountain’s Blessing: This passive now also grants all allies within 30 meters the buff Minor Brutality for 10 seconds at Rank I, or 20 seconds at Rank II.
Unstable Flames (morph): This ability now scales off Stamina and Attack Power and costs Stamina. Damage is mitigated by your target’s melee defense statistics.
Fiery Breath
Burning Breath (morph): This ability will now scale off of stamina and weapon power, and is mitigated by your target’s melee defense statistics. This ability now applies the Major Fracture debuff to your target.
Inferno
Flames of Oblivion (morph): This ability now provides the same effect as Inferno, as well as providing the Major Savagery (that is weapon crit) buff while active.
Molten Weapons
This ability will no longer buff allies. Instead, activating Molten Weapons will increase your heavy attack damage by 40% for 7 seconds. The duration increases with each additional rank.
Igneous Weapons (morph): Using a heavy attack while this ability is active will increase its duration by one second.
Molten Armaments (morph): This ability now increases the extra damage against low health targets.
Slightly reduced the cost of Molten Weapons and its morphs.
Earthen Heart
Mountain’s Blessing: This passive now also grants all allies within 30 meters the buff Minor Brutality for 10 seconds at Rank I, or 20 seconds at Rank II.
NB changes that affect stamina builds
Assassins Blade
Killer’s Blade (morph): This is now a stamina-based ability. The heal from this ability will now be applied if your target dies within 2 seconds of the ability being used, regardless of who killed the target.
Teleport Strike
Ambush: This ability now uses stamina instead of magicka, and applies the Minor Berserk buff on the next attack.
Mark Target
This ability now grants the Major Breach and Major Fracture buffs.
Removed the penalty from this ability.
This ability can now be cast on any target.
Reduced the cost of this ability by approximately 50%, and reduced the duration to 20 seconds.
Piercing Mark (morph): The duration of this ability now scales with ability ranks up to a maximum of 30 seconds.
Reaper’s Mark (morph): This ability now grants the Major Berserk buff for 8 seconds after the target is killed.
Veiled Strike
Surprise Attack (morph): This morph is now a stamina-based ability, now applies the Major Fracture debuff, and will no longer reduce your target’s armor if they dodge the initial attack.
Drain Power
The damage caused by Drain Power no longer scales with the number of targets hit. Instead, you will receive a Major Brutality buff when damaging at least one target.
Power Extraction (morph): This ability now scales off weapon damage and stamina instead of magicka and spell damage. The damage has also been increased by 10%.
Killer’s Blade (morph): This is now a stamina-based ability. The heal from this ability will now be applied if your target dies within 2 seconds of the ability being used, regardless of who killed the target.
Teleport Strike
Ambush: This ability now uses stamina instead of magicka, and applies the Minor Berserk buff on the next attack.
Mark Target
This ability now grants the Major Breach and Major Fracture buffs.
Removed the penalty from this ability.
This ability can now be cast on any target.
Reduced the cost of this ability by approximately 50%, and reduced the duration to 20 seconds.
Piercing Mark (morph): The duration of this ability now scales with ability ranks up to a maximum of 30 seconds.
Reaper’s Mark (morph): This ability now grants the Major Berserk buff for 8 seconds after the target is killed.
Veiled Strike
Surprise Attack (morph): This morph is now a stamina-based ability, now applies the Major Fracture debuff, and will no longer reduce your target’s armor if they dodge the initial attack.
Drain Power
The damage caused by Drain Power no longer scales with the number of targets hit. Instead, you will receive a Major Brutality buff when damaging at least one target.
Power Extraction (morph): This ability now scales off weapon damage and stamina instead of magicka and spell damage. The damage has also been increased by 10%.
Templar changes that affect stamina builds
Puncturing Strikes
Biting Jabs (morph): This ability now scales off stamina and weapon power, and now also provides the Major Savagery buff.
Piercing Javelin
Binding Javelin (morph): This ability now scales off stamina and weapon power.
Backlash
Power of Light (morph): This ability now applies the Minor Fracture debuff to your target, and the damage caps are derived from your maximum stamina.
Aedric Spear
Burning Light: The damage from this passive is now derived from your highest stats (stamina or magicka based).
Aedric Spear
Balance Warrior: Increased the weapon damage from this passive to 3% at Rank I, and 6% at Rank II.
Biting Jabs (morph): This ability now scales off stamina and weapon power, and now also provides the Major Savagery buff.
Piercing Javelin
Binding Javelin (morph): This ability now scales off stamina and weapon power.
Backlash
Power of Light (morph): This ability now applies the Minor Fracture debuff to your target, and the damage caps are derived from your maximum stamina.
Aedric Spear
Burning Light: The damage from this passive is now derived from your highest stats (stamina or magicka based).
Aedric Spear
Balance Warrior: Increased the weapon damage from this passive to 3% at Rank I, and 6% at Rank II.
Sorc changes that affect stamina builds
Bound Armor
Bound Armaments (morph): This ability now costs Stamina instead of Magicka, gives you a bonus to stamina instead of magicka, and increases the damage done by heavy attacks.
Dark Exchange
Dark Deal (morph): This ability now converts magicka into health and stamina.
Overload
Overload and Power Overload will now properly scale their damage off Weapon Damage and Stamina in the event that they are higher than Spell Power and Magicka.
Bound Armaments (morph): This ability now costs Stamina instead of Magicka, gives you a bonus to stamina instead of magicka, and increases the damage done by heavy attacks.
Dark Exchange
Dark Deal (morph): This ability now converts magicka into health and stamina.
Overload
Overload and Power Overload will now properly scale their damage off Weapon Damage and Stamina in the event that they are higher than Spell Power and Magicka.
If you read through all of the above lists, you may have noticed that DK got 2 attacks scaled on stamina and various stamina build buffs, NB got 4 attacks scaled on stamina and various stamina build buffs, Templar got 3 attacks scaled on stamina and various stamina build buffs, while the Sorc got only ONE ultimate and zero basic attacks scaled on stamina and only one stamina buff that comes in the form of near useless toggle. Bound Armaments may find its way into some builds for sure, but it is tough to stomach using 2 slots for it. Dark Deal is totally and completely useless. There is no use for a channel in melee range without a way to quickly create distance. As for the Overload change, I think all ultimates should scale on stamina+weap or magicka + spell anyways and I'm surprised any class ultimates are forcing people to go into a magicka spec. Overall I am very underwhelmed with what was offered to the stamina sorc.
In addition to what we were given (or lack thereof) in 1.6, stamina Sorcs have also lost the only benefits they ever had in the game prior to 1.6. The only thing a stamina Sorc had going for it was that it could stack weapon dmg higher than any other class. With the new buff system, Critical Surge has become completely redundant with other cheaper and longer lasting skills like Rally. Also in 1.6.3, stamina Sorc lost the 10% cost reduction in the Storm Calling tree, which is a HUGE nerf for Crit Surge costs, Bolt Escape costs, and Lightning Form costs, which just happen to be three of the best and only Sorc abilities that a stamina build will use. Crit Surge was already about 40% or so of my magicka bar as a stamina Sorc in 1.6.2 and now it will be even worse.
@ZOS ... I know you have a lot on your plate for this update, but unless the answer to my initial question is, 'No, we want only DK, Temp, and NB to be viable in a stamina build,' then please PLEASE consider some buffs for a stamina Sorc. It has been completely ignored and nerfed. This is a post I made a while ago with some suggestions for stamina Sorc. Even with those additions, stamina Sorcs will STILL be in a position of weakness compared to the other classes in a stamina build. We could really use another dmg morph scaling with stamina on top of what I suggested in my linked post and a decrease in cost for Crit Surge and Lightning Form.
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sabresandiego_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Look at the sorc passives. They give bonuses that would only benefit magicka or hybrid sorcs, and would be completely useless to stamina sorcs. I think ZOS intends sorcs to be played as hybrids if they wanna go stam, because pure stam builds are worse for sorc than for other classes.Ali Dreadsabre -Necromancer
Ali Sabre -Nightblade3 -
Dreamo84✭✭✭The fact that most people agree you have to go full stamina or full magicka for any successful build is the first problem with the system that needs to be fixed.
What good is such a flexible skill system when you're constantly shoehorned into specific little niches unless you wanna be laughed at.Dream it, wish it, do it... or something...4 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Another sorcerer thread
Edited by TheBull on February 17, 2015 11:44PMKilled by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard3 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@ZOS_GinaBruno or anyone over there. Please respond to my question. I pointed out facts and show a glaring discrepancy in what was offered the stamina Sorc. Please don't let 1.6 go live next week like this. It is completely broken.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
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TagaParti✭✭✭✭before you ask and complain about everything, you need to think deep enough. making a build viable for every class requires studying and testing. now, go and think, test, and be enlightened.
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PlagueMonk✭✭✭✭✭before you ask and complain about everything, you need to think deep enough. making a build viable for every class requires studying and testing. now, go and think, test, and be enlightened.
Well not really.
While this appears to be yet another thinly veiled Sorc complaint thread, the fact is, hybrid builds are screwed. With no diminishing returns on damage you are gimping yourself by not boosting one damage type as much as possible and then focusing on skills that use it.
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Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PlagueMonk wrote: »before you ask and complain about everything, you need to think deep enough. making a build viable for every class requires studying and testing. now, go and think, test, and be enlightened.
Well not really.
While this appears to be yet another thinly veiled Sorc complaint thread, the fact is, hybrid builds are screwed. With no diminishing returns on damage you are gimping yourself by not boosting one damage type as much as possible and then focusing on skills that use it.
Thinly veiled? You look at that comparison of what stamina options were offered each class and tell me that stamina Sorc didn't get so completely boned to the point that it seems ZOS is outright saying, "we want all sorc to be magicka builds."
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Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Someone at ZOS, would you please tell me if you think stamina sorcs should be a thing? I laid out every stamina class skill of all four classes for your ease of reading. Sorc is clearly behind the other classes but at the same time it's not as if sorc are even better than other classes in magicka builds. Please help me out here ZOS. I just want to know your intentions for the sorc class.Edited by Erock25 on February 18, 2015 1:47PMYou earned the 500 LOLs badge.
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GreyRanger✭✭✭I would add the following questions:
Should it be viable to play a Sorcerer as a tank? they are the worst current tanks by far now.
Should it be viable to play a sorcerer as a healer? they are the worst healers by far now.
It seems that the only role anyone is focusing on for sorcerers as magicka DPS, which is a fine role if that ever gets sorted out, but I wish it was possible to play all three roles.0 -
Helluin✭✭✭The fact that most people agree you have to go full stamina or full magicka for any successful build is the first problem with the system that needs to be fixed.
I agree and I hope we will get an answer on this matter, since with 1.6 an hybrid build is even less competitive than before.
"... and the blue fire of Helluin flickered in the mists above the borders of the world, in that hour the Children of the Earth awoke, the Firstborn of Ilúvatar."0 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Please ZOS, I am begging for an answer to my question. Is Sorc intended to have a working stamina build? If so, why have they been given practically nothing in terms of stamina skills compared to the other classes and have now been nerfed very hard with the Expert Mage passive change? @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @zos_pleasehelpmeeeeYou earned the 500 LOLs badge.
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Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
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I feel bad being a broken record but there has to be a reason why Sorc received so little in terms of stamina gameplay. Could someone at ZOS please comment on this fact? It is undeniable if you look at what was offered (that I listed all nice and tidy in the OP) that stamina Sorc was mostly forgotten. If it is something that the team is looking in to ... sounds good. If you believe Sorc should be magicka only .... very well. If it is something that you won't be able to get to in 1.6, but are thinking it is something to be addressed later .... please let me and everyone else know.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
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