Are Generals more likely to spawn at an anchor if you leave all four pinions open until the end?

starkerealm

Ourorboros wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Okay, here's how the generals actually work.

There are 16 of them. They behave slightly differently in normal content from veteran, so, assume I'm talking about 1-45 zones first. I'll talk about vet zones and Cyrodiil after that.

Your first zone, that's Stonefalls, Glenumbra, and Auridon, cannot spawn a general. It's like wandering around Cold Harbour looking for werewolf kills. It's not going to happen.

Each zone after that can spawn four Generals, and only those four. They're ordered in your achievements tab to correspond to their zone. So Deshaan can spawn The Torturers, The Ogrim Brothers, The Dremora Pirate, and the Traveling Dremora. It cannot spawn The Lich of Mournhold. For that you'd need to go to The Rift (or Bangkorai, or Reaper's March).

Similarly, if you need The Torturers, you're never going to see them spawn in The Rift, you need to pack up, and head back to Deshaan.

Once you get to vet zones, you can toss all of this out the window. All vet dolmens can produce any General from the list. Or if there is a restriction, I don't know what it is. I've seen The Storm Lord in Silver Bangkorai, The Son of Molag Bal in Gold Malabal Tor, and The Frost Lord in either Silver Glenumbra or Silver Stormhaven. But, if you're farming for a specific boss, you're better off heading to the non-vet zones, and grinding there.

As far as I know Cyrodiil follows roughly the same pattern. The bosses pop up completely randomly.

The biggest difference with the Vet bosses is they actually have different drop tables. There's a Drauger Heritage set that's only available off these guys. Additionally some bosses are supercharged in vet zones, and will actually have a full screen health bar, like what you'd normally see with Dungeon bosses. The Storm Lord and Son of Molag Bal in particular can be real handfuls at high vet ranks for small teams.

There is another, significant, difference about where to get generals. Since the non-vet zones are limited to 4 generals per zone, the odds of getting a specific general are much better. In vet zones, and Cyrodil, any general can spawn. So if you are looking for a specific general, the odds are much higher. That's why many vets farm the lower zones for the Generals achievement. There is an excellent thread that explains the odds, and shows which generals spawn in what zones across all alliances, if you care to search for it.

Yeah, I forgot to point that out explicitly. The perils of multitasking. Thanks.

Ourorboros

There is an excellent thread that explains the odds, and shows which generals spawn in what zones across all alliances, if you care to search for it.

Had the link closer to hand than I realized. Here it is:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/97179/generals-of-molag-bal-achievement

Darlantan

I have killed 7 General after only 69 dolmen. I did some alone, some done in group. I never saw a pattern. The only thing a know is doing a General at your lvl alone is not always easy

Sue_D_Nim

Jice wrote: »

It's people being superstitious pigeons.

If you have a pigeon in a cage and have a machine to feed it randomly. And it happens that the Machine went off twice when the pigeon scratches it's head or something, the pigeon will start scratching it's head thinking that's what caused it to be fed. Then it will teach that to new pigeon's you introduce to the cage.

Those people are no better than pigeons. It's random. There's no pattern.

Because you can't give more than one 'awesome', I'm quoting you just so I can say:

Awesome.

AngryNord

It _may_ be true if you are on your own all the time. It is almost certainly NOT true if you are in a group, or at least others are around.

Zabernat

Nestor wrote: »

I have had Generals Spawn without waiting to close the pinions

I have not had Generals spawn when waiting to close the Pinions

I don't think I have ever had any spawn when I wait to close the pinions, but I rarely remember to wait and just close them when I think about it.

I actually just recently had one spawn and after I had waited to close all the pins till then end too. But seriously, I'm calling it a myth because I had already tried that like 10 times before with no success

Zabernat

firstdecan wrote: »

This only works at dolmens near water, but if you put yourself into the first person perspective, look at your reflection and type 'Bloody Mary' into zone chat three times you'll spawn the secret general for the secret achievement.

Oh yeah! This one TOTALLY WORKS.

danovic

I don't really care about the generals but think its horrible that someone would leave the fight to close a pinion unless they just needed the heal and most of the ones i've seen didn't. I've died numerous times wile someone ran to close a pinion during a bad fight. There is really no point in closing them during the fight other then heal so finish the fight then close them.

HeroOfNone

Whelp, if it does or doesn't work, what does it matter if it's done during or after fighting the waves of mobs? Someone trying to get their pinion achievement?

Honestly I've gotten generals both ways, bust certain times when I've left all pinions up till the end I may take 2 zone clears (6 anchors) to see a boss verses 3 to 4 zone clears (9-12 anchors) when soloing anchors. This was only a small set of a day of farming though, hardly scientific fact.

so, as side from the above question if it matters, who here would be able to actually prove or disprove this outside ZOS devs that can see the code? Come up with a test case and we can verify.

jopeymonster

Mythbusters - ESO edition

Here's the post I did for that which clarifies dolmen spawns. All my info is correct, tested and confirmed by devs. Leaving pinions open IS a valid strategy for clearing the dolmens at lower levels or solo, but does not factor in spawning generals.

jopeymonster wrote: »

SlayerSyrena wrote: »

Myth #1
Generals are more likely to spawn at an anchor if you leave all four pinions open until the end.

Myth #3
The larger your group is, the more likely a General will spawn at an anchor.

Pinions make NO DIFFERENCE if a general will spawn. The strategy to leaving pinions open is to either ninja them all for achievement, or slow the first wave of spawns. If you hold off on the first 2 pinions, you can reduce the speed at which the waves come down, since it won't release a wave if all pinions are capped and most anchors spawn enough souls to open up 5-6 pinions. The amount of pinions/mobs that spawn is related to "how many people/how high players levels are" that are there at the time of anchor start (when the ritual group in the beginning is killed).

The amount of people at the dolmen will not influence a general spawn either. It only changes how many maximum waves it sends, and the appropriate types of mobs to spawn. If there is a large group and all equal level (or a small group with a few high levels) expect either lots of waves, boss style enemies, or a combo of both.

The first problem with generals that people fail to understand is that there are 3 general spawns per zone that CAN SPAWN generals. Given that there are 3 generals per zone to spawn, and only 4 zones to spawn them in, the chances of getting 1 general to spawn, or any specific general to spawn, are still pretty low.

NOTE: The low level 1-10 will NOT SPAWN generals. Only the zones past the starting zone, not including starter isles (which don't have dolmens) will spawn generals. Stonefalls/Auridon/Glenumbra will not spawn generals.

Second, if you want to farm generals, the best place is Cyro or in the first tier Vet campaigns. Every dolmen in Cyro and the Vet zones (except the starter zones as mentioned) have the same chance spawning every general.

Here's a great guide, from Tamriel Journal, that outlines the Daedric Lord Slayer farming. Ignore the comments "tips" from players on the bottom of the page as most are very wrong.

starkerealm

jopeymonster wrote: »

Mythbusters - ESO edition

Here's the post I did for that which clarifies dolmen spawns. All my info is correct, tested and confirmed by devs. Leaving pinions open IS a valid strategy for clearing the dolmens at lower levels or solo, but does not factor in spawning generals.

jopeymonster wrote: »

SlayerSyrena wrote: »

Myth #1
Generals are more likely to spawn at an anchor if you leave all four pinions open until the end.

Myth #3
The larger your group is, the more likely a General will spawn at an anchor.

Pinions make NO DIFFERENCE if a general will spawn. The strategy to leaving pinions open is to either ninja them all for achievement, or slow the first wave of spawns. If you hold off on the first 2 pinions, you can reduce the speed at which the waves come down, since it won't release a wave if all pinions are capped and most anchors spawn enough souls to open up 5-6 pinions. The amount of pinions/mobs that spawn is related to "how many people/how high players levels are" that are there at the time of anchor start (when the ritual group in the beginning is killed).

The amount of people at the dolmen will not influence a general spawn either. It only changes how many maximum waves it sends, and the appropriate types of mobs to spawn. If there is a large group and all equal level (or a small group with a few high levels) expect either lots of waves, boss style enemies, or a combo of both.

The first problem with generals that people fail to understand is that there are 3 general spawns per zone that CAN SPAWN generals. Given that there are 3 generals per zone to spawn, and only 4 zones to spawn them in, the chances of getting 1 general to spawn, or any specific general to spawn, are still pretty low.

NOTE: The low level 1-10 will NOT SPAWN generals. Only the zones past the starting zone, not including starter isles (which don't have dolmens) will spawn generals. Stonefalls/Auridon/Glenumbra will not spawn generals.

Second, if you want to farm generals, the best place is Cyro or in the first tier Vet campaigns. Every dolmen in Cyro and the Vet zones (except the starter zones as mentioned) have the same chance spawning every general.

Here's a great guide, from Tamriel Journal, that outlines the Daedric Lord Slayer farming. Ignore the comments "tips" from players on the bottom of the page as most are very wrong.

Some quick corrections, the Dolmens under level 16 will not spawn generals. That is to say the three in your first zone.

Also, there are 16 Generals total, with four per zone. There are only three Dolmens in each zone, but that's a separate issue.

If you want to farm specific generals, you're better off going to their appropriate sub-vet zone. Farming them in Cyrodiil or in vet zones is only useful if you're trying to accumulate the Drauger Heritage set. Otherwise, you'll be better looking at the achievement and matching them to their zone.

Valen_Byte

OP...to answer your question in short...yes.

starkerealm

Valen_Byte wrote: »

OP...to answer your question in short...yes.

But only if you're smashed, and it's February 30th.

Darkintellect

Before you close the anchors you must give the red god a name of one of the generals. "For this, a man will do the rest"

Kragorn

clocksstoppe wrote: »

while I know there is literally no reason for a programmer to do the pinion thing

In your opinion there's no reason, actually in other games such mechanics so exist simply because it 's something out of the ordinary.

Hell, in at least two games I play a boss only spawns if you don't kill its placeholder for 24 hours, and if you don't kill that boss, after some more time a second level boss spawns.

I have no ides if the mechanic discussed here is or isn't real, that's one of the fun things about this kind of content, but just because you don't see a reason don't mean it can't be real.

clocksstoppe

Kragorn wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

while I know there is literally no reason for a programmer to do the pinion thing

In your opinion there's no reason, actually in other games such mechanics so exist simply because it 's something out of the ordinary.

Hell, in at least two games I play a boss only spawns if you don't kill its placeholder for 24 hours, and if you don't kill that boss, after some more time a second level boss spawns.

I have no ides if the mechanic discussed here is or isn't real, that's one of the fun things about this kind of content, but just because you don't see a reason don't mean it can't be real.

Just because some random 2 games had it is not an argument for saying eso has this sort of undocumented *** mechanic.

onlinegamer1

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

As a programmer, I know this would be false.

The bosses only spawn AFTER all the pinions have been closed. So how could you tell that people waited to close them? It would be difficult and not worth a developer's time. Believe me, this is not code that someone would want to write- it's also really stupid.

It's a myth. For those who believe it, you can laugh in their faces as you close the pinions whenever you want.

local generalSpawnFlag = false
if (checkIfAllPionionsOpenAtSameTime()) then 
    generalSpawnFlag = true 
end

Maybe you should take more programming courses.

Dreizopf

Zabernat wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

This only works at dolmens near water, but if you put yourself into the first person perspective, look at your reflection and type 'Bloody Mary' into zone chat three times you'll spawn the secret general for the secret achievement.

Oh yeah! This one TOTALLY WORKS.

Sssshhhhhhhhhhh, it' s a secret, stupid!

Islyn

What I love is when some 'person' literally stops what they are doing to camp the pinion.

Come on 'person' get over here and finish the fight with the rest of us.

Eta: see I thought all along that leaving pinions up was The Way - then a few people I trust to know said no. I always do just because fighting/healing but glad to know that was at least possibly right.

If there are 4 people doing it though it is nice to let each have one for the pinion ach.

Majic

The theory that leaving pinions open increases the chance of spawning generals is a baseless rumor.

However, it's an absolute indisputable fact that having more monkey pets out increases the chance of generals spawning, because...

Generals Love Monkeys™

Be sure to spread the word, and give thanks to Science (science!) for proving this irrefutable truth beyond all reasonable doubt.

Islyn

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

As a programmer, I know this would be false.

The bosses only spawn AFTER all the pinions have been closed. So how could you tell that people waited to close them? It would be difficult and not worth a developer's time. Believe me, this is not code that someone would want to write- it's also really stupid.

It's a myth. For those who believe it, you can laugh in their faces as you close the pinions whenever you want.

local generalSpawnFlag = false
if (checkIfAllPionionsOpenAtSameTime()) then 
    generalSpawnFlag = true 
end

Maybe you should take more programming courses.

Maybe that doesn't work because spellcheck!

Islyn

Islyn wrote: »

What I love is when some 'person' literally stops what they are doing to camp the pinion.

Come on 'person' get over here and finish the fight with the rest of us.

Eta: see I thought all along that leaving pinions up was The Way - then a few people I trust to know said no. I always do just because fighting/healing but glad to know that was at least possibly right.

If there are 4 people doing it though it is nice to let each have one for the pinion ach.

Valencer

I've tested this extensively with friends and we didn't see a correlation.

However, we did find that running (not sprinting, very important) 5 laps around the dolmen before closing the 4th pinion doubles the chances of a general spawning. It has to be exactly 5, no more no less.

We also found that the dark anchors in the VR10 zones have a double base chance to spawn generals, and running the 5 laps around those before closing the 4th pinion gives the highest possible chance. We tested this in VR10 Bangkorai (AD)... go try it yourself.

Khami

starkerealm wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

I've heard it too, but it sounds like a myth to me. Having said that, since I heard it I make a point not to close any pinions until all 4 have spawned (unless I'm on the verge of dying and am still on potion cooldown with no magicka to heal myself - that only ever happens if I'm soloing the dolmen though). Just in case.

Yeah, this.

I've been told the number of players at a dolmen affects the odds of a general spawning there. But, I'm not sure I believe that either. I've arrived late at way too many dolmens (particularly in vet zones) that spawned a general that the player or two there couldn't handle alone.

Similarly, I've seen way too many generals spawn in non-vet zones when I'm either soloing the Dolmen on a vet or when there's only a couple players there.

So, I don't think either of these actually affect spawn rates.

I've solo'ed the last 20-30 dolmens and named bosses drop about once in 9-10 dolmens. I can do the loop around Deshaan 3 times and get 1 boss to drop. I have less than 45 dolmens for the 250 and missing 1 named boss.

All these people whining about the pinions are not informed. The number of people at the dolmen nor leaving the pinions up won't affect the RNG for the boss drop.

The mechanic for the dolmens changed after launch. Before the change, you had to close all four pinions or the waves wouldn't stop spawning. Now, it's four waves total. They need to make it back to where it was, where you had to close the pinion to get the trash to stop spawning. The dolmens with more than 3 people are way too easy.

Kragorn

Khami wrote: »

The dolmens with more than 3 people are way too easy.

OF course, if they were a 'challenge' for 4 or more they'd be undoable with fewer, I prefer content I can do 'low man' and not have to wait for groups, especially in zones like the VRs today where there likely aren't even 4 people in the entire zone at times.

Anyway, since when did open-world free-for-all content have to be content appealing to the hardcore all the time?

Trion and Blizzard try to scale 'world bosses' and events by dynamically adjusting the mobs' health based on the number of players engaged, the results vary but at best IMO could only be called 'marginal' in their effects.

Khami

Kragorn wrote: »

Khami wrote: »

The dolmens with more than 3 people are way too easy.

OF course, if they were a 'challenge' for 4 or more they'd be undoable with fewer, I prefer content I can do 'low man' and not have to wait for groups, especially in zones like the VRs today where there likely aren't even 4 people in the entire zone at times.

Anyway, since when did open-world free-for-all content have to be content appealing to the hardcore all the time?

I guess you weren't around at launch and before they nerfed the vet zones. The dolmans were tough and they challenged the player. Now, they're faceroll easy and it shouldn't be.

Finding groups in the game is a joke. I did the dolmens before the vet nerf with guildmates. It helps to be in a guild to get stuff done in ESO.

Zershar_Vemod

Nope.

Not sure who is tossing this rumor around, but when I do anchors I always leave the four pinions up due to killing everything first. I usually got Generals when another player is around.

But in the end it's RNG / hit + miss.

Hortator Mopa

Mordack wrote: »

I was at a Dolmen and people got angry at me for destroying the pinions when they popped up. They told me that they needed to be up until the end so the General had a greater chance to appear, which is something I've never heard of. It doesn't even really make sense for it to be that way, but I figured I'd ask for a definitive answer so I know whether to ignore the pinions or keep destroying them like I've always done.

They are wrong.
Reason: I have the achievement and didnt do it, also tested it.

Heruthema

My partner and I never leave them open. We close them as soon as possible. I have seen a 30 -60% rate on generals. So IMO that is a bogus urban myth.

UrQuan

Islyn wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

As a programmer, I know this would be false.

The bosses only spawn AFTER all the pinions have been closed. So how could you tell that people waited to close them? It would be difficult and not worth a developer's time. Believe me, this is not code that someone would want to write- it's also really stupid.

It's a myth. For those who believe it, you can laugh in their faces as you close the pinions whenever you want.

local generalSpawnFlag = false
if (checkIfAllPionionsOpenAtSameTime()) then 
    generalSpawnFlag = true 
end

Maybe you should take more programming courses.

Maybe that doesn't work because spellcheck!

Actually, "Pinion" is the typo. Those are actually PiOnions that you're closing. They're called that because each of them gives a 3.14159265359% chance of a general spawning, and when you close one it makes Molag Bal cry a little bit, just like cutting an onion.