1.6.2 Nightblade Magicka Builds Ruined!!! I'm Done! ZoS Read!

F7sus4

(This topic is complementing, supporting and expanding the other topic on the state of magicka builds in ESO 1.6)

Nightblade Magicka builds are completely worthless in 1.6. Siphoning builds - rest in peace. And why did this happen:

Passives:

Pressure Points nerf - You nerfed 3% to 2% per Assassination ability. The answer is: No. We are damage dealers. We need Crit. There's nothing to discuss. Period. While the 1% doesn't change anything in PvP where most people use ca. 500 Impenetrable, in PvE it is a deal breaker.

Transfer nerf - You nerfed 2 Ultimate points gain down to 1 and added 6 seconds cooldown. If you did elementary-school level math you'd know it means just 1 more Veil of Blades every 25 minutes of constant Siphoning spell spamming. There should be no cooldown at all, or arguably 1-2 second cooldown at worst, especially with those crippling Ultimate nerfs.

Shadow Barrier - nice, but useful only for melee/stamina builds, actually. No Magicka build spam casts Shadow abilities to benefit from it. Also, you shouldn't be indirectly forced to use Heavy Armor on stealthy Class Passives! It's a grotesque.

Class Abilities:

Strife (Funnel Health/Swallow Soul) - While we appreciate the cost reduction, it's not really needed. What is needed is more damage. At this moment, even with constant 20% Spell Damage buff from Entropy, the spell doesn't provide appropriate damage output in the rotation.

Crippling Grasp (Cripple morph) - Removal of immobilize made it one-sidedly inferior to Debilitate. As above, DoT output is not enough.

Grim Focus - The whole new ability is just a misunderstanding and Haste was OK as it was. You can clearly tell that by the number of topics on that issue at theorycrafting forums.

Twisting Path - While already buffed by 33%, the damage output of this ability is still too small to be worth slotting. The server meta-data probably suggests otherwise as many players actually spam-cast it - actually, for PvE fast running or Sorcerer PvP chase.

Soul Tether (Soul Shred morph) - Damage of this ability is equivalent to 2 Impulse casts. While relatively low cost of 150 Ultimate points allowed to use it as additional source of damage in 1.5, the new method of gaining Ultimates prevents this from happening, thus rendering this ultimate useless. So the class should either be able to gain Ultimates almost as fast as in 1.5 or the cost should be 80 Ultimates (arguably 100 Ultimates).

Veil of Blades tripple nerf - 1) You should have kept the additional 30% of damage reduction for the caster. This ability forces you to stay close-range with your enemies (contrary to Sorc Atronach Ultimate which gives you a virtual tank), so you need more survivability for that time. Yes, it was Nightblades' only "Oh s#1t!" button that allowed to survive on many occasions, especially solo, and especially with new Light Armor squishiness. 2) The healing synergy is useless - it's healer's task, not Nightblade damage dealer . (Healing bonus would be nice for defensive Bolstering Darkness morph, but not for Veil of Blades: more damage reduction and DPS is adviced). 3) Also, the cost is too high with the new standard of gaining Ultimates and especially with crippled Transfer passive. 4) And no, the new Catalyst doesn't really help here, since this Ultimate isn't worth spending the cost anymore at all.

ZOS:
If the only advice that is given to 1.6 Magicka Nightblade builds is to, actually, switch to 2-handed/Bow to be competitive at all, then it clearly means you have a lot of work to do on improving it. The only thing is you're blind to it.

rogue_gamer32b14_ESO wrote:

Needless to say ZoS. You need to fix (snip) Nightblade damage with magicka builds asap. If I am forced to reroll or respec to a stamina based build. Don't dough that I'll simply drop this game like a rock. Players didn't work their butts off, to be stepped on. Meanwhile you listen to a vocal minority and ruin the game.

Get it together and fix this...this isn't a request or a suggestion anymore. You beta tested the game on pc players for almost a year now. As if we weren't crapped on enough...If Sorcerers aren't fixed properly by 1.6 live release...then peace. I'm done paying for a game, where the few crying out loud...out weigh the many.

So, kind developers - please keep in mind that you wreck thousands of hours of some of the finest players who spent that time on gameplay, research and improving their characters - and just because you're unable to conduct your own "improvement" patches is not an excuse for wrecking established build archetype.

crowfl56

Bye

TheBucket

This is classic

Gyudan

When @ZOS reduces Nightblade's passives giving 30% stamina recovery and 8% max magicka, I'll be ready to discuss potential issues with the class.

LtCrunch

You really earned my LOL there buddy, good job!

F7sus4

Brandalf wrote: »

You really earned my LOL there buddy, good job!

Which is equivalent to not having any idea about the topic.

Fatalyis

I *almost* took this as a serious post and started a lengthy response. I haven't had my coffee yet....

LtCrunch

F7sus4 wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

You really earned my LOL there buddy, good job!

Which is equivalent to not having any idea about the topic.

Ya it's not like my main since 5 day early access has been a NB or anything....oh wait.

F7sus4

1) Thank you for sharing all the additional brilliant insight regarding class issues, this is really helpful.

2) Just because Sorcerer has issues it doesn't mean Max Magicka NB bonus automatically solves everything in the class.

Siluen

Gyudan wrote: »

When @ZOS reduces Nightblade's passives giving 30% stamina recovery

-whacks with rolled up newspaper- No touchie!

Wall of text... (sorry)

Have mained a Nightblade since launch, at one point I went the magicka route also. (It felt impossible to get through the Veteran Rank zones without it back then) But later I decided this was not for me and went with a stamina-focussed build. Thus the coming patch is an absolute blessing for those that always wished to play their Nighbtlades as more of a rogue. With that in mind, I still have a few remarks when it comes to the point you bring up.

First off, I like the state of Nightblades in 1.6, I felt like we received some more utility.

Pressure points I believe was nerfed alongside the general nerf to crit all around the board, gearsets, medium armor passive (which was buffed back up in 1.6.2) I am not sure if pressure points will be left where it currently is in the light of crit having been boosted again.

Transfer could do with a slightly shorter CD, it does not hurt my bow single target rotation much however (basically refreshing cripple), and I believe it was put in place to combat the ultimate regen of sap tanks, which may have become rather unbalanced in comparison to other builds.

The shadow barrier synergy with heavy armor I think is really great, heavy could use a bit of synergy with the Nightblade's kit, and I liked this gesture.

I do not have much of an opinion on swallow soul/funnel health, as I mainly use it as light support during certain situations. The nerf on crippling grasp is not something I worry about, I did not use it in PvP, and in PvE the boss-mobs were immune to the effect anyway. The other morph might be nice for a caster build now though? (I have not tried it)

Grim focus I do not really like. I do not really pull off that many light attacks in the timespan required usually.

Soul tether, the damage may not be overwhelming in a PvE situation, but it is dirt cheap, you can keep on spamming your other stuff while it's active, and I am personally going to enjoy the hell out of it in PvP!

Veil of blades, one morph became defensive (60% dmg reduction for the caster) therefore great for tanks, the other is offensive. Did you really need the 60% damage reduction as a DPS? I mostly used it as a team utility thing during certain phases of a bossfight. And even if you do feel you need the extra damage reduction for "oh ***" moments, you can grab the other morph, but usually a DPS is not the one taking the heavy hits. You just cannot have it all at once anymore. I am a bit unsure about whether the increased ultimate cost was needed for a dimmed down version of this ultimate, but meh.

I do want every build to function, trust me, I have had enough "go robe + staff or go home" attitudes thrown my way for months and I am not unhappy to see that go. But I do not see any nerfs that will really really hurt your damage output besides the fact you'll be able to thrown down your ultimate less often.

F7sus4

Siluen wrote: »

I do not have much of an opinion on swallow soul/funnel health, as I mainly use it as light support during certain situations. The nerf on crippling grasp is not something I worry about, I did not use it in PvP, and in PvE the boss-mobs were immune to the effect anyway. The other morph might be nice for a caster build now though? (I have not tried it)

Your arguments are irrelevant for the whole topic, because you're discussing everything from Stamina build perspective. This is about Magicka builds.

Siluen wrote: »

[I do want every build to function, trust me, I have had enough "go robe or staff or go home" attitudes thrown my way for months and I am not unhappy to see that go.

So, basically, you favor Stamina builds and just because of random-person preference all Magicka don't have the right to be competitive and should go home (or switch to Stamina). Brilliant!

H3kkx

You have forgotten the most useless skill ever - Agony.
Instead of rebuilding Haste to Grim Focus they had to rebuild Agony to a second useful Dot ability!

eliisra

Magicka build dps is very underwelming on PTS, compared to stamina weapon dmg builds. Not talking about utility or survivability, but raw dps and burst. This is not some isolated NB issue, it concerns many builds and at least 3 classes (not sure about DK). I would expect some balancing patches.

But of course, magicka NB's got slightly more *** on than everyone else, since they also lost 2 of their best assassin archetype skills to the stamina morph experiment. Loosing something as crucial as viable gap closer, sneak bonus and best mele damaging skill, is pretty depressing.

F7sus4

@H3kkx: You're right, I did. It's so deep in a black hole of my perception from the very first day of the game that I've subconsciously avoided it. There are topics regarding new ideas, but the thing that they changed Haste (which was fine), but left Agony as it is (which is bad), proves they were not intending to do anything with it. While I completely agree on the statement, they were ignoring all the topics on Agony in last 9 months nevertheless. I guess it proves that in their opinion they just "knew better".

whitebeard00

Since the beginning of ESO have laughed at everyone complaining about NB, always found them very fun and effective at healing/dps/tanking, so flexible... however, have to agree w/ this. Used my magicka NB build on the PTS and really struggled, mixed it up a lot w/ different skills, but was very very squishy. Compared to the Templar magicka build there was no comparison. Templar could solo anomolies, NB struggled in Spellscar.

Siluen

F7sus4 wrote: »

Siluen wrote: »

I do want every build to function, trust me, I have had enough "go robe or staff or go home" attitudes thrown my way for months and I am not unhappy to see that go.

So, basically, you favor Stamina builds and just because of random-person preference all Magicka don't have the right to be competitive and should go home (or switch to Stamina). Brilliant!

You humble me good sir. Most certainly your impeccable reading comprehension is the only thing that is brilliant around here!

Pangnirtung

To the OP, adapt. It's just that simple.

Tankqull

F7sus4 wrote: »

Siluen wrote: »

I do not have much of an opinion on swallow soul/funnel health, as I mainly use it as light support during certain situations. The nerf on crippling grasp is not something I worry about, I did not use it in PvP, and in PvE the boss-mobs were immune to the effect anyway. The other morph might be nice for a caster build now though? (I have not tried it)

Your arguments are irrelevant for the whole topic, because you're discussing everything from Stamina build perspective. This is about Magicka builds.

Siluen wrote: »

[I do want every build to function, trust me, I have had enough "go robe or staff or go home" attitudes thrown my way for months and I am not unhappy to see that go.

So, basically, you favor Stamina builds and just because of random-person preference all Magicka don't have the right to be competitive and should go home (or switch to Stamina). Brilliant!

this
with every day 1.6 is on the PTS i feel they should implement all stamina skills as a third morph option instead of substituting the existing moprh.

GRxKnight

In regards to this post I think it's still too early to say what the state of magicka NB's will be when this goes live. Yes I do think that right now they're inferior to the stamina builds in terms of burst damage. I haven't really done any testing myself for PvE but in PvP I can tell you that stamina looks like it's the way to go.

Now I have seen some theory crafting going on in the NB Magicka department and I have to see the skill bars for this look very interesting with what skills are being used. I would just like to point out to the OP that magicka still probably has a better sustain DPS than stamina.

ZOS is smart even though people think they're not. The game was all about the light armor in PvE and PvP. If you weren't in that you weren't going to have a lot of success and good luck finding a group to do trials with. Now we're seeing a switch to stamina builds and medium armor being something to want. Who knows what the state of the game will be when this patch goes live. We still have a few weeks before that happens (or even till March 17th possibly). There's probably a hidden magicka build sitting in PTS right now that just needs to be found. It's not as obvious as before and I actually kind of like that.

F7sus4

@Siluen: I agree. The reading comprehension was impeccable enough to notice two contradicting statements within one sentence: "I do want every build to function" vs "I am not unhappy to see that go (Magicka builds)". Again, discussing on Magicka builds from the perspective of Stamina build view is irrelevant - I kindly ask to discuss Stamina issues (if any) in appropriate topic.

TheBull

Idk about PvE op, but pure Swallow Soul builds are wrecking people in PvP. SS plus mark and entropy is devastating.



#FixCloak

pmn100b16_ESO

Tankqull wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

Siluen wrote: »

I do not have much of an opinion on swallow soul/funnel health, as I mainly use it as light support during certain situations. The nerf on crippling grasp is not something I worry about, I did not use it in PvP, and in PvE the boss-mobs were immune to the effect anyway. The other morph might be nice for a caster build now though? (I have not tried it)

Your arguments are irrelevant for the whole topic, because you're discussing everything from Stamina build perspective. This is about Magicka builds.

Siluen wrote: »

[I do want every build to function, trust me, I have had enough "go robe or staff or go home" attitudes thrown my way for months and I am not unhappy to see that go.

So, basically, you favor Stamina builds and just because of random-person preference all Magicka don't have the right to be competitive and should go home (or switch to Stamina). Brilliant!

this
with every day 1.6 is on the PTS i feel they should implement all stamina skills as a third morph option instead of substituting the existing moprh.

Well yes thats what they should have done. Any skill that needs a stamina alternative should have 4 morphs, magicka versions (as live) and stamina versions. But I expect this would require a little extra coding so they went the slap dash quick fix route and just exchanged some database entry from 'cost: magicka' to 'cost: stamina'

Its this shoddy design work, and the up coming wonky 1.6 update that is making me log in less and less. In fact, haven't played for the last week.

Siluen

F7sus4 wrote: »

@Siluen: I agree. The reading comprehension was impeccable enough to notice two contradicting statements within one sentence: "I do want every build to function" vs "I am not unhappy to see that go (Magicka builds)". Again, discussing on Magicka builds from the perspective of Stamina build view is irrelevant - I kindly ask to discuss Stamina issues (if any) in appropriate topic.

In my sentence "that" does not refer to magicka builds.

"That" referred to the statement "go staff + robe or go home".

I know what it is like to get turned down because of your build is what I wished to underline. I want every build to function. Not just stamina, not just magicka.

No contradiction.

Nor was my post solely from a stamina point of view. I highlighted aspects that could refer to both magicka and stamina builds, with the exception of strife, which I noted I do not use as my main damage ability. Besides for that, about everything I stated can be applied to a magicka discussion also.

Fatalyis

TheBull wrote: »

Idk about PvE op, but pure Swallow Soul builds are wrecking people in PvP. SS plus mark and entropy is devastating.



#FixCloak

Dark Cloak, which is in my opinion the cornerstone of any (PvP) Magicka NB build, has really been hit or miss with me in 1.6. Some times, it works flawlessly and others I'm still getting hit by Crystal Frags, Poison Injection, etc. I really wish they would fix it so it would be consistant....that would help.

As to the OP, I still can't see this as a serious post. I've played Magicka NB since beta and to be honest, I feel more comfortable in 1.6 than I ever have on live. I use Shadow abilities quite often so I greatly benefit from the Shadow Barrier passive. Swallow Soul/Funnel Health, while it may not have huge numbers, is such low cost that it can be spammed without worry....my regen every 2 seconds is more than what 2 SS cost so I am not losing any Magicka. That is, if I use it....lately the combination of Elemental Drain + Crushing Shock has been my go-to and, again, I'm gaining back plenty of Magicka in the process.

I think the issue with seeing Stamina as the way to go is that, finally, it is an option. Stamina NBs have really had a struggle to deal with since beta and I'm glad that they have been given some tools to work with. It sucks for the Magicka Melee NBs...that was a fun role to play....but now we have diversity...and I'm glad.

Faulgor

I agree Magicka NBs have issues, but first I'd like to see a fix to Light Armor - such as a direct bonus to spell power like Medium Armor has for weapon power - before tweaking things further.

Except for Agony, that skill is just bad.

Siluen

Faulgor wrote: »

Except for Agony, that skill is just bad.

I think the fact Agony is crap is the uniting statement we can all agree with.

Don't hate the player, hate Agony.

Fatalyis

Siluen wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Except for Agony, that skill is just bad.

I think the fact Agony is crap is the uniting statement we can all agree with.

Don't hate the player, hate Agony.

Agreed! I, by no means, would ever claim that Magicka - based NBs are perfect....there are some flaws that I would like to see fixed (as with all classes) but I just can't find myself struggling with some of the issues that have been brought up in this thread.

Agony, though....lol. I've seen some pretty interesting ideas from players, over the course of the last nine months, on changes to this ability. I would have much rather seen it go than Haste.

H3kkx

Agony need to be a usefull Dot !
Than i will be Happy with this class in a Magica build!

*Hate Agony*

manny254

I also agree NB needs some serious love in the magic department. I think the reason this is being overlooked is that there are a large portion of NB's prefer stamina. So if there magic build is nerfed they just go and play stamina.

This is not acceptable though to any player that created a nightblade to use magic based damage.

Deathztalker

There is about 6 more update to the PST to come before it goes live if you ask me it is dumb to be giving up on the game at the beginning of a testing phase. It sounds like 1.6.3 is going to be another large update.

The reality is with the changes to how armor works a lot of NB now prefer the play style of a stamina build. There is a guy in my guild who has figure out a way to pull 11k using a magicka build in PVE, I really don't care what numbers he pulls because the play style that I like isn't viable using magicka any more. The problem is a lot of NB on live have magicka racials that are wasted using a stamina build I just hope that ESO will sell race changes in the store . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Cody

I want ZOS to give the old catalyst bonus back. I would much rather have 30% extra efficiency with potions than the new bonus.