Crown Store - Isn't pay to win

DatGuyAsh

Deltia's Gaming posted a YouTube video about the Crown Store not being pay to win.

There adding experience potions if I heard correctly? What do you guys think of this?

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZnOGngOsgE

Joejudas

One guy on the internet says it isn't pay to win...So it must be true. It's ok I'll make sure I say " I told you so " when they start selling end game armor in the Crown Store in 6 months.

ShadowDisciple

If i consider saving 1 day of gameplay time every 10 day (10% more xp) then its p2w..

but IMO ITS NOT P2W...

Also xp boosts is obtainable thru ingame gold also SO NOT P2W....

Only xp boost u cant get without paying is eso+ boost...and thats fine..ppl need some incentive to sub..

So no its ot p2w...like i once said, if u put it in perspective its so miniscule it doesent matter..

10% is 100k xp for every 1kk xp u gain...in other words if u gai 1kk exp in 1h, this boost saves >>>>>6 Minutes<<<<< of your time...p2w my ass

Joejudas

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

If i consider saving 1 day of gameplay time every 10 day (10% more xp) then its p2w..

but IMO ITS NOT P2W...

Also xp boosts is obtainable thru ingame gold also SO NOT P2W....

Only xp boost u cant get without paying is eso+ boost...and thats fine..ppl need some incentive to sub..

So no its ot p2w...like i once said, if u put it in perspective its so miniscule it doesent matter..

10% is 100k xp for every 1kk xp u gain...in other words if u gai 1kk exp in 1h, this boost saves >>>>>6 Minutes<<<<< of your time...p2w my ass

And 10% will turn into 20,30,40,50 etc etc. Stop being sheeple

Tavore1138

Mixed feelings...

On one side - define pay to win? If I encounter 1v1 a player with the same build and skills as me but (s)he has spent some crowns on boosters which have resulted in them having a bit more health/stamina/magcika than me because they has extra CP and (s)he thus wins the fight then you can argue they has paid to win. But if I am more skilled then it might not matter... to me.

But it is not as clearly defined as if they were offering a sword which did 1,000 damage or armour that gave 99% mitigation - that would be very blatant pay to win.

But from the moment they announced XP boost potions as an option (or even extra XP for subbing) then the possibility of someone who pays gaining advantage solely because they pay exists.

On other side the CP grind is going to be endless and if there is a get all CP for $100 booster I'd be tempted

Is the sky falling? Maybe, maybe not - wait and see how the meta around all these changes plays out.

AlexDougherty

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

If i consider saving 1 day of gameplay time every 10 day (10% more xp) then its p2w..

but IMO ITS NOT P2W...

Also xp boosts is obtainable thru ingame gold also SO NOT P2W....

Only xp boost u cant get without paying is eso+ boost...and thats fine..ppl need some incentive to sub..

So no its ot p2w...like i once said, if u put it in perspective its so miniscule it doesent matter..

10% is 100k xp for every 1kk xp u gain...in other words if u gai 1kk exp in 1h, this boost saves >>>>>6 Minutes<<<<< of your time...p2w my ass

XP boosts are a tricky one, at one end, like a 10% XP Boosts, they are not P2Win, but as you increase the percentage they become P2Win.

I don't think they are P2Win yet, but it is something that we the customers need to keep an eye on, and tell them when it does cross the line (not sure where line is, but if we see people getting 50% they they've definately crossed it).

kevlarto_ESO

At this time there is nothing in the store that is p2w, who knows what the future holds, that said there is a bigger issue looming over us, the power gap that the cp system is going to make in the player base, and will the exp boosts exacerbate that power gap, guess we will have to see.

zward887_ESO

yet...

They never start pay to win, but then you hear a new addition "because the players have been demanding it" or " people want more value from their purchase so we're making crown store items more powerful" etc etc.

It never starts off bad, it just ends up that way.

folklore

We will have to see where it takes us. Much too early to tell, unfortunately.

Digiman

Joejudas wrote: »

One guy on the internet says it isn't pay to win...So it must be true. It's ok I'll make sure I say " I told you so " when they start selling end game armor in the Crown Store in 6 months.

Even know what pay to win is? Paying money for an unfair game breaking advantage typically breaking the balance of gameplay, such as gear or abilities you can't get in the game itself.

Say pay $50 so you can have to six more abilities on your ability bars. Or legendary gear with stats unparalleled to those found in the game.

XP boosts for money isn't game breaking, everyone will get to end game level and it isn't a flat out level up to 50.

Winnower

Pay to Win is when the players who value cosmetic clothing options have to pay for it to get them because they aren't available in the game itself.

Pay to Win is when the best mounts and extras have to pay for them because they aren't available in the game itself.

Pay to Win is when the best / nicest / coolest / most fun stuff is a result of a meta-store and the none of these things are available in the game itself.

When this happens the *GAME* suffers. The game becomes the naked barbie doll, but you'll never see the great mansion with the swimming pool and the convertible corvette unless you pony up a lot more money separately. More than you would have paid with a subscription, btw.

Real pay to win would be fine with me. If I could buy max level characters, max bank and personal inventory, best end-game gear - then the money would mean something at least - would show some benefit.

As it is, what happens is that the cash store sucks all the actual fun out of the GAME and puts it into the STORE. Imagine SW:TOR or LoTRO if all the stuff in those game stores were actually in the game.

Imagine if all the effort put into trying to market the game was put into making a good game. Imagine if all the mid-level-bean-counter-suits were replaced with devs who were into making a good game. They'd make millions as a consequence.

And it only works because people are . . . not bright. If people refused to pay for the extra senche mount, the wedding dress, etc ad nauseum ad lib, then games wouldn't get structured this way. It's sad really.

KhajitFurTrader

Winnower wrote: »

And it only works because people are . . . not bright. If people refused to pay for the extra senche mount, the wedding dress, etc ad nauseum ad lib, then games wouldn't get structured this way. It's sad really.

If people refused to pay for extra stuff at all, the game wouldn't be a viable business no more and would have to be closed down, because other people wouldn't get paid. Then the former people wouldn't be able to play any longer. Very bright people indeed.

How 'bout the people who don't want to pay for extra fluff give a fixed amount of money each month, and get all the fluff for free? That sounds like a plan...

Muizer

Whether or not the crown store will be pay to win when it opens is debatable. What is not debatable is that the general philosophy behind the crown store most definitely does not preclude it becoming (more) p2w in the future.

To quote the "road ahead":
"I want to take a moment and talk about the philosophy we use to determine the types of items we put in the store—you've heard us refer to them as “customization and convenience" items before. Simply put, this means that an item in the Crown Store serves one of two purposes: it either provides a visual upgrade or distinction for your character, or it provides a way to save time at the expense of spending crowns. When it comes to this second category of items, we generally will make in-game variants of similar items available either as drops or as player-craftable items, as well."

What about the ratio of rarity in game vs crown store cost though? Consider gold crafting materials. These are so rare that you may well go through a year of normal gameplay before you've gathered enough to upgrade one complete set of weapons and gear. If these mats get sold for a dollar each, people with a 100 bucks to spend gould get everything at the click of a button. I wonder how many of those who say that 10% xp gain is not pay to win would still maintain then that it's "only time saving, not p2w".

Think I'm being overly pessimistic? Try to get ZoS to give concrete numbers on this issue of rarity vs cost.

Csub

Well it seems okay now, but you wait until "their community" starts asking for it like it "did" for B2P version.

JamilaRaj

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

If people refused to pay for extra stuff at all, the game wouldn't be a viable business no more and would have to be closed down, because other people wouldn't get paid. Then the former people wouldn't be able to play any longer. Very bright people indeed.

That is the point; to starve cash shop developers of money, so they would have to shut cash shops down and start doing something else, like developing some actual games.

Digiman wrote: »

Even know what pay to win is? Paying money for an unfair game breaking advantage typically breaking the balance of gameplay, such as gear or abilities you can't get in the game itself.

It does not matter that you can get X (that provides some advantage, which does not even be that great, slight advantage still means slightly more wins with it than without) in game. What does matter is that of two players doing same things, being otherwise equal, the one that paid will have it, the other won't. The former paid to make fight unequal. P2W is simple as that.

BigM

Sorry guys what ZoS says now will change later. They been lying to us before beta was over. Sad but true.

Lefty_Lucy

Being max level is not synonymous with winning.

JamilaRaj

Master Sun on PvP wrote:

It's better to have higher than lower level.

newtinmpls

Winnower wrote: »

Pay to Win is when the best / nicest / coolest / most fun stuff is a result of a meta-store and the none of these things are available in the game itself.

When this happens the *GAME* suffers. The game becomes the naked barbie doll, but you'll never see the great mansion with the swimming pool and the convertible corvette unless you pony up a lot more money separately. More than you would have paid with a subscription, btw.

[some snipped]

And it only works because people are . . . not bright. If people refused to pay for the extra senche mount, the wedding dress, etc ad nauseum ad lib, then games wouldn't get structured this way. It's sad really.

Well said. And having come from a past of not being able to afford Malibu Barbie's dream house, I have huge sympathy for the feeling of being F-ed over if this sort of thing starts to happen.

I'm a subscriber (obviously <g>) and intend to continue that. But I don't want to "have" to shop at the crown store ("free to me" or not) in order to enjoy the game.

crislevin

I couldn't care less if somebody is gaining exp a bit faster.

The game has more severe problem than this.