NBs and Invis Pots.....

PlagueMonk

So let me get this straight........a person can drink an invisibility potion and not only have it last longer than 2.9 secs (well over 20 if you've specced for it) but they CAN hide you so you can steal with impunity? (unlike NB who instantly appear if they try to steal now) Guess the logic escapes me where a potion is VASTLY superior to a classes innate ability.

I am really getting tired of NB abilities getting nerfed or not fixed but yet everyone can have invisibility only BETTER. So when are we getting pots that duplicate reflective scales or blazing shield or BE? Seems only fair at this point to allow NBs to have other classes special abilities.

So either nerf potions so they also break you out of stealth when you steal and make them 3-5 secs long MAX OR give our cloak's hide on steal back and allow the cloak to last as long as a freakin' potion. The way it currently is, is COMPLETE BULLS*** and a blatant double standard.

awkwarrd

I would prefer that a NB's class ability would be better than a potion.

Seems really weird that a class ability, something that they specialize in, is weaker than a fruity potion made from butterfly wings or sheep poo.

Cody

Invisibility is part of the Nightblades power. It is one of their many talents and innate abilities. It makes no sense that some imitation(no matter how skilled the alchemist) can function as well as the ability itself.

Rammi

totally agree! Joke!

Darkintellect

Buff the class ability or nerf the potion. This makes absolutely no sense.

Ommamar

I think they are really at a loss on how to deal with invisibility. It sounded like a cool idea but they seem hesitant to really allow it to be used. No idea how they are going to make it function and not be over powered in any form.

Wing

I would be okay if they just made nothing break NB invisibility, heck even attacks, that would be fun.

Helluin

Shadowstrike (The Shadow) gives also 2,5 sec of invisibility.

In 1.6 many potions that provide an utility has a longer duration than the utilities provided by skills. I presume this is intended to avoid to destroy completely alchemy since buffs don't stack.

Playing NB as main, imho a solution would be simply reduce the magicka costs of Cloaks.

About the bugs: many other MMORPGs had similar issues and bugs with this kind of skills, call it cloak, invisibility, vanish or as you wish.
They solved this simply making character immune when using these.
Applying something similar as solution would probably finally fix also the issues with Dark Cloak (about offensive Dot ticks, this is another problem as well).

About Justice system: a class designed to be sneaky and to move in the shadows, imho should have some advantages but without making this content a joke.

DeLindsay

PlagueMonk wrote: »

So let me get this straight........a person can drink an invisibility potion and not only have it last longer than 2.9 secs (well over 20 if you've specced for it) but they CAN hide you so you can steal with impunity? (unlike NB who instantly appear if they try to steal now) Guess the logic escapes me where a potion is VASTLY superior to a classes innate ability.

Can you verify with a video that you can Steal while using an Invisibility Potion in the 1.6.2 build? I ask because I can say 100% fact that NB's can't anymore as it was "fixed" for the 1.6.2 Patch and the moment you hit E or R to take an item you get decloaked AND caught.

prototypefb

cloak should give damage shield if it ends prior to 2,9 sec, this way NB would whine less about not having a damage shield and cloak breaking constantly xD

Digiman

PlagueMonk wrote: »

So let me get this straight........a person can drink an invisibility potion and not only have it last longer than 2.9 secs (well over 20 if you've specced for it) but they CAN hide you so you can steal with impunity?

I thought potion invisibility is capped at a 3 seconds, plus it consumes the potion CD.

Also BE potion made me laugh out load, yeah sure that would be popular move 10 yards on a 45 sec CD. I think that was the Dev's original idea behind the nerf for it.

DeLindsay

Digiman wrote: »

I thought potion invisibility is capped at a 3 seconds, plus it consumes the potion CD.

Yes it consumes the Potion CD which can be lowered to 30 sec with (3) Alchemy Glyphs. BTW, this is from 1.6.2 PTS right now, why, because ZoS.[img][/img]

EDIT: Just tested it, you can in fact steal with impunity with that Potion, but the moment you open a Safebox it de-stealths you. I just gotta LOL at some of the ridiculous things ZoS does.

Lalaeith

Wow, didn't know about the long duration of these pots. Yes this needs to be looked at, cloak is NBs most special ability after all.

I don't like the last change they made to cloaking and stealing. This is a stealth class after all so it would be logical that they have an advantage in justice. And people who want to participate there can consider that when creating a toon.

Lied

Ommamar wrote: »

I think they are really at a loss on how to deal with invisibility.

I got the same feeling when they were trying to nerf bolt escape without being able to use cooldowns in the formula. Trying to tune certain class abilities by resource cost alone is like trying to balance with one hand tied behind your back.

Sharee

PlagueMonk wrote: »

So when are we getting pots that duplicate reflective scales or blazing shield or BE?.

That's not a bad idea, actually

Rammi

I personally believe this needs a response from ZOS.

This makes zero sense from my perspective at this point and I think they should explain this decision!

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ ?

Digiman

DeLindsay wrote: »

[q uote="Digiman;1560407"]
I thought potion invisibility is capped at a 3 seconds, plus it consumes the potion CD.

Yes it consumes the Potion CD which can be lowered to 30 sec with (3) Alchemy Glyphs. BTW, this is from 1.6.2 PTS right now, why, because ZoS.[img][/img]

EDIT: Just tested it, you can in fact steal with impunity with that Potion, but the moment you open a Safebox it de-stealths you. I just gotta LOL at some of the ridiculous things ZoS does.
[/quote]

Seriouesly are you kidding me? That is going live? That's rediculous. I can understand 5 second, even 8 seconds but 19 seconds? That must be a bug.

Is that for NPC only? Or does it effect PvP, if this was a 19 second PvE and 3 second against PvP I would be fine with it.

Sharee wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

So when are we getting pots that duplicate reflective scales or blazing shield or BE?.

That's not a bad idea, actually

Enjoy 10 yard BE with 45 sec CD!

DeLindsay

@Digiman I only tested it's effects in a PvE environment so I cannot say for sure what duration it has in PvP other than what the tooltip reads, 19 seconds. Mind you that's with 3/3 Medicinal Use in Alchemy (pretty much a required 3 points in 1.6). But I love the fact that someone cried on these very forums that it wasn't right that NB's could steal with impunity using a 2.9 second Cloak so @ZOS_GinaBruno came into that thread to assure everyone it was being fixed in 1.6.2 (which it did get fixed) but they completely left a 19 SECOND Invisibility Potion alone to enjoy your free stealing rampage. And ZoS wonders why many Players have zero faith in them to properly balance the game or fix bugs that have persisted since Launch.

joshisanonymous

Digiman wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

So let me get this straight........a person can drink an invisibility potion and not only have it last longer than 2.9 secs (well over 20 if you've specced for it) but they CAN hide you so you can steal with impunity?

I thought potion invisibility is capped at a 3 seconds, plus it consumes the potion CD.

Also BE potion made me laugh out load, yeah sure that would be popular move 10 yards on a 45 sec CD. I think that was the Dev's original idea behind the nerf for it.

I think you're on the right track when it comes to why invisibility potions are made useful in situations where the NB cloak is not. They're just very different things which just happen share the same general effect.

A potion starts up a very long cooldown which also blocks you from using other extremely useful potions. It can't be used then broken with an action then immediately used again like cloak either, which justifies the long duration. The potion just doesn't have anywhere near as much utility as cloak and seems situational at best. I have no idea why you would use it in regular PvE and, despite people occasionaly posting that invisibility potions are a normal thing in PvP, I've literally never seen anyone who wasn't an NB disappear on the battlefield. The OP is describing maybe the only situation in which an invisibility potion is useful, and it sounds a lot like a bug anyway to be honest.

joshisanonymous

DeLindsay wrote: »

@Digiman I only tested it's effects in a PvE environment so I cannot say for sure what duration it has in PvP other than what the tooltip reads, 19 seconds. Mind you that's with 3/3 Medicinal Use in Alchemy (pretty much a required 3 points in 1.6). But I love the fact that someone cried on these very forums that it wasn't right that NB's could steal with impunity using a 2.9 second Cloak so @ZOS_GinaBruno came into that thread to assure everyone it was being fixed in 1.6.2 (which it did get fixed) but they completely left a 19 SECOND Invisibility Potion alone to enjoy your free stealing rampage. And ZoS wonders why many Players have zero faith in them to properly balance the game or fix bugs that have persisted since Launch.

Test. Server. You're talking about a bug on a test server. There may be other reasons to not have total faith that bug won't get fixed, but the existence of a bug on a test version of an extremely large patch that isn't coming out for a month or so is not one of them.

Tamanous

Where is my 19 second Bolt Escape?

ZOS apparently is 100% out to destroy my NB build so where are the options to gain other core class abilities to diminish their concepts?

PlagueMonk

DeLindsay wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

I thought potion invisibility is capped at a 3 seconds, plus it consumes the potion CD.

Yes it consumes the Potion CD which can be lowered to 30 sec with (3) Alchemy Glyphs. BTW, this is from 1.6.2 PTS right now, why, because ZoS.[img][/img]

EDIT: Just tested it, you can in fact steal with impunity with that Potion, but the moment you open a Safebox it de-stealths you. I just gotta LOL at some of the ridiculous things ZoS does.

I don't have any video capture on my system so THANK YOU for corroborating my claim.

joshisanonymous wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

So let me get this straight........a person can drink an invisibility potion and not only have it last longer than 2.9 secs (well over 20 if you've specced for it) but they CAN hide you so you can steal with impunity?

I thought potion invisibility is capped at a 3 seconds, plus it consumes the potion CD.

Also BE potion made me laugh out load, yeah sure that would be popular move 10 yards on a 45 sec CD. I think that was the Dev's original idea behind the nerf for it.

I think you're on the right track when it comes to why invisibility potions are made useful in situations where the NB cloak is not. They're just very different things which just happen share the same general effect.

No, they are exactly the same thing only the easier to make potion is vastly superior. The only down side is non-NBs have to make potions so you can't realistically use this ability at will (although over 20 secs is a LONG freakin' time for no magicka cost)

It's a double standard that a potion would trump a class ability.

So if you have this opinion would you mind terribly if they gave us a reflective scales that lasted 1 min and reflected ALL ranged attacks? or a BE that lasted 1 min and went 20 ft further with each jump? or a Blazing shield that had 500k protection?

Hell, if things are kept as is I will most likely switch to drinking invis. pots MYSELF so I can steal and not have to recast every 2.5 secs (which is a HUGE pain in the ***)

A potion starts up a very long cooldown which also blocks you from using other extremely useful potions. It can't be used then broken with an action then immediately used again like cloak either, which justifies the long duration. The potion just doesn't have anywhere near as much utility as cloak and seems situational at best. I have no idea why you would use it in regular PvE and, despite people occasionaly posting that invisibility potions are a normal thing in PvP, I've literally never seen anyone who wasn't an NB disappear on the battlefield. The OP is describing maybe the only situation in which an invisibility potion is useful, and it sounds a lot like a bug anyway to be honest.

not a very long cooldown........you can easily being it from 45 secs to 30 secs (if you had read above) and then spec to have a potion over 20 secs. So only a 10 sec window when you cannot go invisible. This is MUCH better than a NB who will run out of magicka and have to wait for it to regen.

And my described situation will become HUGE in 1.6. If it is a bug, GREAT fix it to be no better but if it remains it's *************** *** ********* ******** ****.

Sharee

PlagueMonk wrote: »

And my described situation will become HUGE in 1.6. If it is a bug, GREAT fix it to be no better but if it remains it's *************** *** ********* ******** ****.

I don't see a big issue.

In PvP, people are so used to disappearing nightblades that they will have no problem dealing with disappearing anything, just the same way. The duration is much longer than cloak true, but when a NB disappears in front of me, first thing i do is use a detection potion (those last 25 seconds on the PTS btw), and with detect potion it does not matter whether invis potion lasts for 3 seconds or 20, i will hit him and reveal him almost instantly.

Using invisibility potions to steal from NPC's seems like a very minor thing to me since it does not affect other players and the potions are not free, but if that is an issue it can be quickly fixed by making player appear as soon as they touch an owned container.

TheBull

DeLindsay wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

I thought potion invisibility is capped at a 3 seconds, plus it consumes the potion CD.

Yes it consumes the Potion CD which can be lowered to 30 sec with (3) Alchemy Glyphs. BTW, this is from 1.6.2 PTS right now, why, because ZoS.[img][/img]

EDIT: Just tested it, you can in fact steal with impunity with that Potion, but the moment you open a Safebox it de-stealths you. I just gotta LOL at some of the ridiculous things ZoS does.

Wow this is stupid. So a non NB class can pop an invis and be invisible for 40 seconds out of 70 seconds? With no use of other resources, wtf?

killedbyping

PlagueMonk wrote: »

So let me get this straight........a person can drink an invisibility potion and not only have it last longer than 2.9 secs (well over 20 if you've specced for it) but they CAN hide you so you can steal with impunity? (unlike NB who instantly appear if they try to steal now) Guess the logic escapes me where a potion is VASTLY superior to a classes innate ability.

I am really getting tired of NB abilities getting nerfed or not fixed but yet everyone can have invisibility only BETTER. So when are we getting pots that duplicate reflective scales or blazing shield or BE? Seems only fair at this point to allow NBs to have other classes special abilities.

So either nerf potions so they also break you out of stealth when you steal and make them 3-5 secs long MAX OR give our cloak's hide on steal back and allow the cloak to last as long as a freakin' potion. The way it currently is, is COMPLETE BULLS*** and a blatant double standard.

This is quite simple:
Potion made to let people be invisible.
Cloak made just to troll and make you angry.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

With the increased global cooldown to 45 seconds, all potion effects had their durations increased with 1.6 (see my thread for a full report on all changes/issues related to potions with 1.6). The invisibility thing does seem to be an oversight though, and really does render the NB skill pretty useless.

Sharee

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

With the increased global cooldown to 45 seconds, all potion effects had their durations increased with 1.6 (see my thread for a full report on all changes/issues related to potions with 1.6). The invisibility thing does seem to be an oversight though, and really does render the NB skill pretty useless.

NB skill does not have a 45 second cooldown.

Really guys, i'm a NB, and this is just an overreaction. The length anyone can stay invisible is pretty much irrelevant with the ease one can get revealed. Magelight, detection potion, own dots... NB's can tell tales about how they tried to use invisibility 7 times in a row only to get revealed each time over and over. Now imagine you only have one try, then a 45 second cooldown... really. If i wanted to get away, i'd much rather have a speed+immovable(12 second!) potion than this.

joshisanonymous

PlagueMonk wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

I thought potion invisibility is capped at a 3 seconds, plus it consumes the potion CD.

Yes it consumes the Potion CD which can be lowered to 30 sec with (3) Alchemy Glyphs. BTW, this is from 1.6.2 PTS right now, why, because ZoS.[img][/img]

EDIT: Just tested it, you can in fact steal with impunity with that Potion, but the moment you open a Safebox it de-stealths you. I just gotta LOL at some of the ridiculous things ZoS does.

I don't have any video capture on my system so THANK YOU for corroborating my claim.

joshisanonymous wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

So let me get this straight........a person can drink an invisibility potion and not only have it last longer than 2.9 secs (well over 20 if you've specced for it) but they CAN hide you so you can steal with impunity?

I thought potion invisibility is capped at a 3 seconds, plus it consumes the potion CD.

Also BE potion made me laugh out load, yeah sure that would be popular move 10 yards on a 45 sec CD. I think that was the Dev's original idea behind the nerf for it.

I think you're on the right track when it comes to why invisibility potions are made useful in situations where the NB cloak is not. They're just very different things which just happen share the same general effect.

No, they are exactly the same thing only the easier to make potion is vastly superior. The only down side is non-NBs have to make potions so you can't realistically use this ability at will (although over 20 secs is a LONG freakin' time for no magicka cost)

It's a double standard that a potion would trump a class ability.

So if you have this opinion would you mind terribly if they gave us a reflective scales that lasted 1 min and reflected ALL ranged attacks? or a BE that lasted 1 min and went 20 ft further with each jump? or a Blazing shield that had 500k protection?

Hell, if things are kept as is I will most likely switch to drinking invis. pots MYSELF so I can steal and not have to recast every 2.5 secs (which is a HUGE pain in the ***)

A potion starts up a very long cooldown which also blocks you from using other extremely useful potions. It can't be used then broken with an action then immediately used again like cloak either, which justifies the long duration. The potion just doesn't have anywhere near as much utility as cloak and seems situational at best. I have no idea why you would use it in regular PvE and, despite people occasionaly posting that invisibility potions are a normal thing in PvP, I've literally never seen anyone who wasn't an NB disappear on the battlefield. The OP is describing maybe the only situation in which an invisibility potion is useful, and it sounds a lot like a bug anyway to be honest.

not a very long cooldown........you can easily being it from 45 secs to 30 secs (if you had read above) and then spec to have a potion over 20 secs. So only a 10 sec window when you cannot go invisible. This is MUCH better than a NB who will run out of magicka and have to wait for it to regen.

And my described situation will become HUGE in 1.6. If it is a bug, GREAT fix it to be no better but if it remains it's *************** *** ********* ******** ****.

You didn't comprehend what I said at all. If you honestly think that 30 seconds isn't a long cooldown simply because the invisibility potion can last 20 seconds, then you are, to put it politely, quite short sighted.

You're describing this as if the point of going invisible is to just stay invisible for as long as possible and take absolutely no actions. Sure, with invisibility pots, you can be invisible more often than not, but what the hell are you doing just sitting there being invisible? Literally the only use this has is stealing, which is probably a bug.

TheBucket

Almost as bad as a detect pot totally making a primary skill null. Yet i cant drink a portion to give me the ability to break shields

PlagueMonk

joshisanonymous wrote: »

You didn't comprehend what I said at all. If you honestly think that 30 seconds isn't a long cooldown simply because the invisibility potion can last 20 seconds, then you are, to put it politely, quite short sighted.

You're describing this as if the point of going invisible is to just stay invisible for as long as possible and take absolutely no actions. Sure, with invisibility pots, you can be invisible more often than not, but what the hell are you doing just sitting there being invisible? Literally the only use this has is stealing, which is probably a bug.

Oh sure I did. And its ONLY 10 secs of being visible for every 20 you are invisible. Sorry if you have a problem comprehending how ridiculous that is.

You however are just too "shortsighted" to think of a reason to go invisible for more than a few secs at a pop. I often will burn through my entire magicka bar trying to stay invisible. maybe if you thought a bit harder you could come up with a reason WHY because it's not about standing around for 20 secs, sheesh.

Sharee wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

With the increased global cooldown to 45 seconds, all potion effects had their durations increased with 1.6 (see my thread for a full report on all changes/issues related to potions with 1.6). The invisibility thing does seem to be an oversight though, and really does render the NB skill pretty useless.

NB skill does not have a 45 second cooldown.

Really guys, i'm a NB, and this is just an overreaction. The length anyone can stay invisible is pretty much irrelevant with the ease one can get revealed. Magelight, detection potion, own dots... NB's can tell tales about how they tried to use invisibility 7 times in a row only to get revealed each time over and over. Now imagine you only have one try, then a 45 second cooldown... really. If i wanted to get away, i'd much rather have a speed+immovable(12 second!) potion than this.

No, its not 45 secs but we DO have a limit on the amount of times we can go invisible and maintain it (plus its pretty labor intensive and risky). So after I have burned through my magicka bar I can either stop and wait or use a magicka pot. At this stage it would be MUCH easier to drink an invis pot.

And you are taking specifically about PvP, I however am NOT (although I often do invisible away if the situation is looking grim)

I am talking primarily about a pot being able to allow everyone to steal free and clear while our ability reveals us? THAT is a load of crap. The duration however is also over the top and should be no more than a NB's skill imho.

TheBucket wrote: »

Almost as bad as a detect pot totally making a primary skill null. Yet i cant drink a portion to give me the ability to break shields

And yes, that is also a load of crap. They have multiple ways to prevent stealth, continuing to marginalize the skill more and more.

I agree, if a potion can remove our stealth, why don't we have one that removes those annoying shields or to stop BE from working?

F7sus4

joshisanonymous wrote: »

You didn't comprehend what I said at all. If you honestly think that 30 seconds isn't a long cooldown simply because the invisibility potion can last 20 seconds, then you are, to put it politely, quite short sighted.

Potions should not (ever!) substitute unique-class abilities' effectiveness. If anyone can be invisible for 20 seconds out of 45 seconds, what does it make you superior on that field as a Nightblade? Being able to spam-cast Dark Cloak and use all your resources in 20-30 seconds?!

The potions should give 4-5 second invisibility at best and there's nothing to discuss in here.