Cost reduction stacking in PvP?

sbanned_530978

Cost reduction has always felt very powerful in PvP.
Light armor 21%
Arch mage+seducer 16%
Worm Cult (ally) 5%
Expert mage passive 10%
Unholy Knowledge passive 5%
Magicka Mastery passive 3%
3 jewelry enchants
Now we are getting 15.6% cost reduction from The Tower (Magician)
75.6% + jewelry enchants

So without using a potion, missing 16% arch/seducer, and missing 3 jewelry enchant; I feel using streak 16 times in a row is a little much. Also missing mundus, war horn, 50 other passives, etc....

So which direction should ESO go in; start by cutting cost reductions in half, hard cap on cost reductions or is there another path ESOs PvP can head down?

Roselle

Other

Luvboard, that might be a good idea, but I urge you to watch this ESO youtube video that talks about spell cost reduction before considering this any further...
https://youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

Kaghei

Cut cost reductions in half (more or less)

Roselle wrote: »

Luvboard, that might be a good idea, but I urge you to watch this ESO youtube video that talks about spell cost reduction before considering this any further...
https://youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

Wow i hate you, i pulled this exact move on kasumi yesterday!! For sure you copied me

ToRelax

I think @Ezareth_ESO did some research about cost reduction on PTS.

Also, are you aware that the 50% cost increase on Bolt Escape is not mitigated? Just saying.

Soulac

Play as you want.
Someone who got max. Cost reduction won't have enough dmg to kill anything.
In addition to that is your reduction above very unrealistic..

sbanned_530978

Cut cost reductions in half (more or less)

ToRelax wrote: »

I think @Ezareth_ESO did some research about cost reduction on PTS.

Also, are you aware that the 50% cost increase on Bolt Escape is not mitigated? Just saying.

ToRelax wrote: »

I think @Ezareth_ESO did some research about cost reduction on PTS.

Also, are you aware that the 50% cost increase on Bolt Escape is not mitigated? Just saying.

Yup, still on pts casted it 16 times in a row without potions, without seducer/arch and other buffs.

sbanned_530978

Cut cost reductions in half (more or less)

Soulac wrote: »

Play as you want.
Someone who got max. Cost reduction won't have enough dmg to kill anything.
In addition to that is your reduction above very unrealistic..

How so? On the pts casting streak 16 times without potions, seducer/arch which alot of players use, is pretty crazy? No cost reduction rings and missing alot of other things.

ToRelax

krayiss wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Play as you want.
Someone who got max. Cost reduction won't have enough dmg to kill anything.
In addition to that is your reduction above very unrealistic..

How so? On the pts casting streak 16 times without potions, seducer/arch which alot of players use, is pretty crazy? No cost reduction rings and missing alot of other things.

No, on PTS its nothing special as the skill doesn't gimp your magicka regen + you have no softcaps.

Soulac

krayiss wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Play as you want.
Someone who got max. Cost reduction won't have enough dmg to kill anything.
In addition to that is your reduction above very unrealistic..

How so? On the pts casting streak 16 times without potions, seducer/arch which alot of players use, is pretty crazy? No cost reduction rings and missing alot of other things.

That´s cause they reduced the BASEcost of every skill, but you´re able to get higher Regeneration and Reduction at the same time.
It´s not an issue of the Costreduction itself, it was just rly bad to change the basecost of abilitys too.

Yes it is crazy, but everyone can do it..

Cinnamon_Spider

Other

They should just leave it how it is.

Asgari

Other

krayiss wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Play as you want.
Someone who got max. Cost reduction won't have enough dmg to kill anything.
In addition to that is your reduction above very unrealistic..

How so? On the pts casting streak 16 times without potions, seducer/arch which alot of players use, is pretty crazy? No cost reduction rings and missing alot of other things.

Sorcs are taking another hit in 1.6.3. Don't worry, they won't be around in pvp much longer.

Valnas

ratgoddess495 wrote: »

They should just leave it how it is.

^^

The dev's commented last night that expert mage is gonna be redone so, there goes 10% reduction (in relation to streak) already that we have to spend 40~ champ points to make up.

Suru

Other

Last i checked with cost reduction enchants, did not give you the full reduction. Ex, legendary glyph said 22 cost reduction, i just got 16 or so and got less the more Cost reduction i put on jewelry. Def some diminishing returns. I had light and seducer when I did.

Your post only applies to sorcs, and if all a sorc is doing is blinking, more power to them, cause its not gonna affect me at all, run away some more. Just think about what you are giving up when you run cost reduction tho. It's fine.

eliisra

ToRelax wrote: »

I think @Ezareth_ESO did some research about cost reduction on PTS.

Also, are you aware that the 50% cost increase on Bolt Escape is not mitigated? Just saying.

Yeah that. Something sorcerers where pretty upset about, back when they nerfed the skill. So the reason OP can hit BE 16 times in a row or whatnot has other explanations, maybe crazy recovery and magicka pool on PTS(compared to live)?

I dont see any problem with reduction stacking personally. You're gimping your dps, out-going healing and strength of skills in general, by ignoring power. It's only worth stacking to a certain degree, than you loose to much important burst in PvE and PvP.

DeLindsay

Other

Stop asking for nerfs to everything.

sbanned_530978

Cut cost reductions in half (more or less)

Suru wrote: »

Last i checked with cost reduction enchants, did not give you the full reduction. Ex, legendary glyph said 22 cost reduction, i just got 16 or so and got less the more Cost reduction i put on jewelry. Def some diminishing returns. I had light and seducer when I did.

Your post only applies to sorcs, and if all a sorc is doing is blinking, more power to them, cause its not gonna affect me at all, run away some more. Just think about what you are giving up when you run cost reduction tho. It's fine.

Cost reduction enchs never gave full value because of passives, its always been that way since day 1 and gave DR.
You know streak isnt just a skill to run away, its more aggressive if anything and u know it, y are u saying that?
Again casted it 16 times in a row while not giving up anything.
The exampled stated, I was not running reduction enchants, was not using seduc/arch, was not using potions.
My post only applies to sorc, only 15% of it does lol.
Suru have you been on the PTS at all?

sbanned_530978

Cut cost reductions in half (more or less)

eliisra wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I think @Ezareth_ESO did some research about cost reduction on PTS.

Also, are you aware that the 50% cost increase on Bolt Escape is not mitigated? Just saying.

Yeah that. Something sorcerers where pretty upset about, back when they nerfed the skill. So the reason OP can hit BE 16 times in a row or whatnot has other explanations, maybe crazy recovery and magicka pool on PTS(compared to live)?

I dont see any problem with reduction stacking personally. You're gimping your dps, out-going healing and strength of skills in general, by ignoring power. It's only worth stacking to a certain degree, than you loose to much important burst in PvE and PvP.

Again gave up 0 dps to cast it 16 times. Wasnt using cost reduction jewelry, sedu/arch, didnt have crazy recovery, didnt use pots, didnt even have a mundus stone, + 20 other buffs, pretty sure I was missing food lol. Get on the PTS

Ezareth

krayiss wrote: »

Cost reduction has always felt very powerful in PvP.
Light armor 21%
Arch mage+seducer 16%
Worm Cult (ally) 5%
Expert mage passive 10%
Unholy Knowledge passive 5%
Magicka Mastery passive 3%
3 jewelry enchants
Now we are getting 15.6% cost reduction from The Tower (Magician)
75.6% + jewelry enchants

So without using a potion, missing 16% arch/seducer, and missing 3 jewelry enchant; I feel using streak 16 times in a row is a little much. Also missing mundus, war horn, 50 other passives, etc....

So which direction should ESO go in; start by cutting cost reductions in half, hard cap on cost reductions or is there another path ESOs PvP can head down?

I'm half certain this is a troll attempt and not a rational proposition from someone of intelligence but I'll bite.

Why do you and everyone else think that by dumping 3600 champion points into the system and then doing *anything* is going to be indicative of the experience we're going to have in 1.6?

I created a fresh Altmer Sorc on PTs, put 3600 champion points in, all legendary VR 14 aether trash gear with legendary magicka enchants. VR10 epic food. 62 points into magicka, no cost reduction other than the 15.8% champion reduction and sorc/LA passives and I can bolt escape 15 times in a row.

What you fail to mention is the fact you have just under *40,000* magicka.

The fact that you have no cost reduction specializion says alone that the *issue* isn't cost reduction....it's the fact you're playing in PTS Godmode where a single player can solo keeps by facerolling his keyboard.

And for the record, they already *did* nerf cost reduction by 12.3% compared to live so stacking it isn't nearly as powerful as it is on live. In your example of only having 39% (I'm assuming you're breton) the reduction provided is actually 34.2% instead.

The champion bonus is only multiplicative with cost reduction not additive to it so it is far less powerful (although it doesn't suffer from the 12.3% penalty).

Ezareth

krayiss wrote: »

Suru wrote: »

Last i checked with cost reduction enchants, did not give you the full reduction. Ex, legendary glyph said 22 cost reduction, i just got 16 or so and got less the more Cost reduction i put on jewelry. Def some diminishing returns. I had light and seducer when I did.

Your post only applies to sorcs, and if all a sorc is doing is blinking, more power to them, cause its not gonna affect me at all, run away some more. Just think about what you are giving up when you run cost reduction tho. It's fine.

Cost reduction enchs never gave full value because of passives, its always been that way since day 1 and gave DR.
You know streak isnt just a skill to run away, its more aggressive if anything and u know it, y are u saying that?
Again casted it 16 times in a row while not giving up anything.
The exampled stated, I was not running reduction enchants, was not using seduc/arch, was not using potions.
My post only applies to sorc, only 15% of it does lol.
Suru have you been on the PTS at all?

There is no DR in cost reduction enchants, it is only applied before the reduction percentages and so the noticeable amount is reduced by the same percentage as your cost reduction.

Few sorcs are going to be using Streak in 1.6 anyways. In PTS they've all switched to Ball of Lightning. Trying to use streak offensively is a good way to get yourself killed since it triggers CC immunity and if you're not running away from someone you're dying to them as the wet paper sack you're wearing called Light Armor provides you with little other than allowing you to Bolt Escape another 4 or 5 times.

ItsRejectz

Other

What a stupid topic this is

Cody

right now, there are more important things to worry about

Sacadon

Other

Cody wrote: »

right now, there are more important things to worry about

^^ + There's no reason to NOT collaborate on things, so not trying to discourage that. My recc. is to bump/resurrect this one in about 6 months after we have a full grasp on what 1.6 really means.

DisgracefulMind

Other

Just...stop...right now.

Derra

Other

And today in biased polls that offer nothing but the ops opinion worded atleast 3 times differently: This.

Tripwyr

Other

Why is streak the only thing being targeted in this post? Everybody whines about streak constantly while begging for Dark Cloak to be fixed into a guaranteed escape mechanism with no counter, it makes zero sense.

Ezareth

Tripwyr wrote: »

Why is streak the only thing being targeted in this post? Everybody whines about streak constantly while begging for Dark Cloak to be fixed into a guaranteed escape mechanism with no counter, it makes zero sense.

The Ironic thing the OP probably didn't realize was that Streak actually unintentionally benefits from the Spell Cost reduction *nerf* that the devs put in place by virtue of the 50% successive penalty (which is additive with cost reduction and subject to the same formula) also being impacted by the nerf.

With the state Cost Reduction is on PTS right now it is actually more beneficial to stack Magic regen. The primary reason you didn't want to stack regen in live was the soft caps. With those removed, and many numbers being multiplicative along with a 25% base multiplicative champion ability(versus 15.8% Base cost reduction), you're going to find more people going that route.

ToRelax

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Why is streak the only thing being targeted in this post? Everybody whines about streak constantly while begging for Dark Cloak to be fixed into a guaranteed escape mechanism with no counter, it makes zero sense.

The Ironic thing the OP probably didn't realize was that Streak actually unintentionally benefits from the Spell Cost reduction *nerf* that the devs put in place by virtue of the 50% successive penalty (which is additive with cost reduction and subject to the same formula) also being impacted by the nerf.

With the state Cost Reduction is on PTS right now it is actually more beneficial to stack Magic regen. The primary reason you didn't want to stack regen in live was the soft caps. With those removed, and many numbers being multiplicative along with a 25% base multiplicative champion ability(versus 15.8% Base cost reduction), you're going to find more people going that route.

Yeah but (probably for that reason) regen enchants are a lot weaker than cost reduction ones.

edit: I mean, their values smaller - what is weaker in the end we will see.

Ezareth

ToRelax wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Why is streak the only thing being targeted in this post? Everybody whines about streak constantly while begging for Dark Cloak to be fixed into a guaranteed escape mechanism with no counter, it makes zero sense.

The Ironic thing the OP probably didn't realize was that Streak actually unintentionally benefits from the Spell Cost reduction *nerf* that the devs put in place by virtue of the 50% successive penalty (which is additive with cost reduction and subject to the same formula) also being impacted by the nerf.

With the state Cost Reduction is on PTS right now it is actually more beneficial to stack Magic regen. The primary reason you didn't want to stack regen in live was the soft caps. With those removed, and many numbers being multiplicative along with a 25% base multiplicative champion ability(versus 15.8% Base cost reduction), you're going to find more people going that route.

Yeah but (probably for that reason) regen enchants are a lot weaker than cost reduction ones.

edit: I mean, their values smaller - what is weaker in the end we will see.

Yes but you can get absurd regen increase percentages right now at are multiplicative against whatever your adjusted (increased by jewelry/set bonuses) base is, plus racials +/ werewolf vamp

I just made a night blade with only 300 champion points spent on PTS and I can dodge roll *infinitely*.

Yet people focus on Bolt escape haha.

sbanned_530978

Cut cost reductions in half (more or less)

@ezareth_ESO‌
Putting 100 points into The Tower (Magician) is all you really need. You will start with 70 -_-
You dont need the 3600 points, but down the road we will have them and others wont and the passives + stats are so much stronger than any other passive/boost we currently have.
40,0000 Magicka isnt even that high and you dont need it to get insane cost reduction to spam skills like this.
What is the 12.3% penalty?

Was tired on the DR thing, forgot to mention it applies 1st, thanks XD.
PTS can only handle so many players and their builds are not very group oriented?
All the solo sorcs might run ball of lightning but if your in a group, there is no point of running away because u might die away from the group.
Wet paper triple shield stacker lol jk : p

sbanned_530978

Cut cost reductions in half (more or less)

@Tripwyr‌ Lol I used to streak to over exaggerate with the 50% cost mech on it. Find me a more expensive magicka cost skill that players want to spam besides cleanse. Im not targeting dark cloak/escape mechanisms. We are talking about cost reduction and im not going to compare 50 skills, just picked the most expensive.
Use logic, stay on topic, or go derail another thread : p jk

Tripwyr

Other

krayiss wrote: »

@Tripwyr‌ Lol I used to streak to over exaggerate with the 50% cost mech on it. Find me a more expensive magicka cost skill that players want to spam besides cleanse. Im not targeting dark cloak/escape mechanisms. We are talking about cost reduction and im not going to compare 50 skills, just picked the most expensive.
Use logic, stay on topic, or go derail another thread : p jk

Considering that half the cost of Streak is completely unaffected by cost reduction, it seems like a rather poor spell to make the entire focus of your post.