Zenimax: Please don't put essential stamina build heal at assault rank 10

glavius

Why not allow new players and alts to play a stamina based build with the assault skill Vigor?
Forcing people to play 1 year or more as a magicka build first is just very bad game design.
I know some people can get 8 mill AP rather fast, but for most people we're talking a VERY long time....

LtCrunch

"Essential"

cozmon3c_ESO

Go earn it, thats where it should be, its strong.

SRIBES

You have to get alliace rank 24 which really isn't that hard.. Just find a solid group, lol.

glavius

Essential for some stamina builds.
And why rule out entire builds from new players?
New players are what keeps the game going.

DDuke

Here's a better idea: don't put in a "stamina build heal" at all.

If you want to be a healer, go put on some robes & magicka spells, just like in every other decent (MMO)RPG.

"Stamina heal" is probably the stupidest thing I've seen ZOS implement so far, and only serves to lessen the build diversity in PvP.

Rook_Master

DDuke wrote: »

Here's a better idea: don't put in a "stamina build heal" at all.

If you want to be a healer, go put on some robes & magicka spells, just like in every other decent (MMO)RPG.

"Stamina heal" is probably the stupidest thing I've seen ZOS implement so far, and only serves to lessen the build diversity in PvP.

100% Agree

A stamina heal is ridiculous. It's even more ridiculous when it's walled behind millions of AP points and realistically only accessible to people who exploited early or hardcore people that play 8+ hours a day.

Gilvoth

dragonights can self heal to full health, so for me (a stamina build nightblade) to be able to heal myself like the dragonights can is just the begining on the long road to class balance.
and yes your right that having to make it all the way up to assault rank 10 is a bit too far up the ladder and many will not make it that far for atleast a year and thats not fair.
thank you for the stamina heal tho

Ommamar

One thing this might do is make the non vet campaign a more popular choice to play. That skill is awesome but not necessarily an essential for a stamina healing build. As for diversity I don't see how having the ability to utilize two different paths to be a healer is limiting it. As for every game is designed this way so this one should be too argument. Is not only false but a very silly way to look at things.

Iduyenn

I want accountwide Alliance rank. With all my Twinks i would be lvl 10

WraithAzraiel

Iduyenn wrote: »

I want accountwide Alliance rank. With all my Twinks i would be lvl 10

I don't think that word means what you think it means. I dare you to google "Twink"

sabresandiego_ESO

I completely agree. Vigor is essential to many stamina builds and it is too difficult to aquire. Alliance war 10 needs to be less of a grind, and/or be account wide.

Siluen

Would be nice if they at least swapped it around with the active before it, which means you would be able to get it at rank 7. It would still require First Sergeant rank to get, but it'd be a step closer.

eliisra

Ommamar wrote: »

One thing this might do is make the non vet campaign a more popular choice to play. That skill is awesome but not necessarily an essential for a stamina healing build. As for diversity I don't see how having the ability to utilize two different paths to be a healer is limiting it. As for every game is designed this way so this one should be too argument. Is not only false but a very silly way to look at things.

Not sure that would make the non VR much more popular. The grind to get level 10 assaults/support on one single character is to massive, your lowbie endeavours hardly matters, drop in the bucket.

It's even slower now after they removed the AP-piñata, also known as a forward camp. Than added new population caps, to reduce lag. Gone are the days of 30-40k dee ticks and a never ending keep fights.

But I'll agree that it's not an essential skill, it's AoE smart heal for the group. Sounds pretty awesome on a support and off-heal bar though, if you're stam based. I might use it on my healer as a stamina dump (if it's actually possible to oom in 1.6).

sabresandiego_ESO

More on Alliance War Rank and Vigor:

One of the goals of 1.6 is to rebalance the game. This means magicka, stamina, health, and hybrid builds should all be "relatively" balanced so that there is a bunch of different and diverse builds you can create. There will always be "optimal" builds, and that is very difficult to prevent. 1.6 is the most balanced the game has ever been, you guys have done a great job. But one thing that is sticking out is Vigor being at rank 10 alliance war.

Alliance war is one of the worst grinds in the game. Its worse than vet levels. It simply takes too long and putting an ability that is absolutely "essential" for making many stamina builds competitive with magicka builds is a mistake. This forces players to either play as magicka, or a suboptimal stamina build until they unlock the ability by grinding it out.

Vigor is an extremely powerful ability. It is really good, and actually does deserve being at the end of alliance war in terms of pure power. That does not however bode well for people who want to play as a stamina build enjoyably before aquiring it.

Possible Suggestions:

1. I think vigor and magicka detonation should switch places in alliance war ranking. They are both extremely powerful abilities, but vigor is more "essential" to stamina builds than magicka detonation is to magicka builds. Most magicka builds will be playable competitively without magicka detonation, but very many stamina builds are not competitive (in pvp) without vigor because stamina builds tend to have poor survivability compared to magicka builds which have heals and damage shields.

2. Alliance war rank should be easier to level. Right now the grind is borderline unreasonable. Its more difficult than veteran ranks. I understand the desire to keep people playing, earning things, chasing that carrot on a stick, but its just too much of a grind.

3. Consider making Alliance war rank account wide, to encourage more people to make alts and experience the game. Right now, the alliance war rank grind is so painful, it heavily discourages making and leveling new characters.

More Thoughts On Alliance War Skills:

Vigor is an extremely good ability
Magicka Detonation is a fantastic ability

Guard I have not been able to test extensively, but seems very situational. Potential to be useful, but I doubt its a great ability. More testing needed.

Flare is a horrible ability from my limited testing in small scale pvp. In larger scale pvp, perhaps one guy can be throwing out flares to find enemy armies that are stealthed. Stealth mechanics in this game are overpowered, providing people with complete invisibility in open fields. There can be a 100 man army completely invisible in an open field and there is no way of knowing it. Flare helps somewhat but not really. I don't think there are any plans on changing stealth, but from my testing against stealth players, the flare ability is a complete waste. The effect is too slow, the area revealed is too small, and once discovered stealth players can rapidly escape with rolls and other maneuvers, and then restealth again 8 seconds later. The only use Im seeing for flare is in large group pvp to find other large groups who are stealthed. Perhaps the ability is not intended to be good in smaller scale engagements, but thats my review of the ability.

Hopefully Vigor is made easier for stamina builds to aquire and/or Alliance War made to be less of an unreasonable grind. Keep up the good work and I look forward to more great balance changes and seeing the coolest patch ever go live.

Xeniph

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

More on Alliance War Rank and Vigor:

One of the goals of 1.6 is to rebalance the game. This means magicka, stamina, health, and hybrid builds should all be "relatively" balanced so that there is a bunch of different and diverse builds you can create. There will always be "optimal" builds, and that is very difficult to prevent. 1.6 is the most balanced the game has ever been, you guys have done a great job. But one thing that is sticking out is Vigor being at rank 10 alliance war.

Alliance war is one of the worst grinds in the game. Its worse than vet levels. It simply takes too long and putting an ability that is absolutely "essential" for making many stamina builds competitive with magicka builds is a mistake. This forces players to either play as magicka, or a suboptimal stamina build until they unlock the ability by grinding it out.

Vigor is an extremely powerful ability. It is really good, and actually does deserve being at the end of alliance war in terms of pure power. That does not however bode well for people who want to play as a stamina build enjoyably before aquiring it.

Possible Suggestions:

1. I think vigor and magicka detonation should switch places in alliance war ranking. They are both extremely powerful abilities, but vigor is more "essential" to stamina builds than magicka detonation is to magicka builds. Most magicka builds will be playable competitively without magicka detonation, but very many stamina builds are not competitive (in pvp) without vigor because stamina builds tend to have poor survivability compared to magicka builds which have heals and damage shields.

2. Alliance war rank should be easier to level. Right now the grind is borderline unreasonable. Its more difficult than veteran ranks. I understand the desire to keep people playing, earning things, chasing that carrot on a stick, but its just too much of a grind.

3. Consider making Alliance war rank account wide, to encourage more people to make alts and experience the game. Right now, the alliance war rank grind is so painful, it heavily discourages making and leveling new characters.

More Thoughts On Alliance War Skills:

Vigor is an extremely good ability
Magicka Detonation is a fantastic ability

Guard I have not been able to test extensively, but seems very situational. Potential to be useful, but I doubt its a great ability. More testing needed.

Flare is a horrible ability from my limited testing in small scale pvp. In larger scale pvp, perhaps one guy can be throwing out flares to find enemy armies that are stealthed. Stealth mechanics in this game are overpowered, providing people with complete invisibility in open fields. There can be a 100 man army completely invisible in an open field and there is no way of knowing it. Flare helps somewhat but not really. I don't think there are any plans on changing stealth, but from my testing against stealth players, the flare ability is a complete waste. The effect is too slow, the area revealed is too small, and once discovered stealth players can rapidly escape with rolls and other maneuvers, and then restealth again 8 seconds later. The only use Im seeing for flare is in large group pvp to find other large groups who are stealthed. Perhaps the ability is not intended to be good in smaller scale engagements, but thats my review of the ability.

Hopefully Vigor is made easier for stamina builds to aquire and/or Alliance War made to be less of an unreasonable grind. Keep up the good work and I look forward to more great balance changes and seeing the coolest patch ever go live.

Quoted for truth.

Sabre has got a handle on this and I agree with him wholeheartedly.

cazlonb16_ESO

Champion points and mounts are account wide, so should be alliance rank. I'm sure it will be eventually, unfortunately I doubt it's high on the list of priorities.

Phinix1

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

More on Alliance War Rank and Vigor:

One of the goals of 1.6 is to rebalance the game. This means magicka, stamina, health, and hybrid builds should all be "relatively" balanced so that there is a bunch of different and diverse builds you can create.

They have failed. MISERABLY. They might as well have barred hybrid builds from the game. As of 1.6 PTS, hybrid builds have been completely and utterly destroyed.