A thought on Healers for 1.6 and beyond

DeLindsay

TL;DR: Do NOT Homogenize all 4 Classes so that they Heal the same but instead improve on each Class's strengths so that each Healer stays unique while remaining competitive.

I have wanted to make this thread for a while and due to so many changes coming down the pipe for 1.6 now seemed like a good time. I should start out saying that my Main is a VR14 NB who's MS is Healing and Tanking. I also have Healers of the other 3 Classes and enjoy the different style of play from each. In this thread I will discuss a little about how I see each Class in regards to their Healing style and how ZoS could improve on that mechanic to further differentiate each Class from the others while helping to bring DK/Sorc (less so NB) better inline with Templars.

At this time I don't see a true need for improvement of the Templar Class in regards to Healing so I will speak about the other 3 specifically. Part of why this topic is even on Players' minds is the stigma attached to all non-Templar Healers in ESO. Yes all 4 Classes are viable for Healing and yes all 4 Classes have Healed all content in ESO to date. This does not however change how Players see non-Templars as Healers. All one has to do is look at chat on any given day or read these very forums to see most consider it as 'Templar or GTFO'.

Nightblade

NB's are in a really good place for 1.6 as healers and are very competitive with Templars. We received 2 Healing additions in 1.6+ via 1 Passive change and 1 Ultimate change. We're already known as the HoT Healers in ESO so I'd like to see ZoS focus more on that with a few tweaks to the class. First what changed in 1.6+ is this:

• Soul Siphoner Passive: +2/3% Healing done per Siphon ability slotted.
• Veil of Blades: Low Health Allies gain a 4 second HoT.

If ZoS were to focus on NB Healers as the "HoT Healers" then I'd like to see one change:

• Soul Siphoner Passive: +3/6% Healing done per Siphon ability slotted to all Heal over Time effects. (changed from ALL Healing done to specifically HoTs).
• No other changes.

Sorcerer

Sorcs have one unique ability that makes them vastly superior Healers in terms of Magicka management, something highly sought after in the fastest of speed runs. With the loss of Surge directly effecting Sorcs' Healing done I'd like to see ZoS work with what they do well and that's Magicka management. What this could allow Sorcs to do is stack Spell Damage instead of Magicka regen and cost reduction like most Healers do for considerably bolstered Heals. My suggestion is this:

• Dark Conversion: Drains less Stamina and reduces the cost of your Restoration Staff abilities by 28% within 6 seconds. (same % as Spell Symmetry but only for Resto Staff abilities).
• Summoned Charged Atronach: Radius increased to 8 meters and reduces the Magicka cost of Allies' abilities within range by 10% (remove the AOE dmg portion for the cost reduction. Why Magicka? Because Templars can give out Group Stamina).

Dragonknight

Shields n' Heals is what they should be called. DK's have an incredible potential for burst Healing while also providing decent group Shielding. I have been debating with @Seraphyel on THIS thread in regards to Igneous Shield and any other help DK's do or don't need in regards to Healing so I thought I'd bring my ideas here in one place. I do not think it should scale from Magicka but I have some thoughts as to how ZoS could bolster the idea that DK's are the Shielding -extra Healing type of Healers in ESO.

• Igneous Shield: Increase the Healing done to 40%* and the duration to 10 seconds. Drop the additional 100% Shield on self but instead increase the Shield on all effected to 25% of Health (it's currently ~15.5% of Health, 40%* is the current top value for major buffs in 1.6).
• Magma Shell: Change the Shield from a Synergy to on activation. Add the X Flame Damage dealt to enemies every second as the Synergy (on activation meaning as soon as the DK uses Magma Shell, all effected Allies are shielded for 100% of their Health for up to 10.8 seconds).

At current DK Healers are the most scarce in ESO. It's possible that it's nothing more than DK's being the Meta for DPS and Tanking so many don't even consider them as Healers. I'd love to see each Class specialize in their own unique style of Healing so that we don't just have 4 different "Templars" running around Healing in ESO. My suggestions are minor tweaks that would effect almost exclusively Healing Roles therefore not making one Class all the sudden OP in PvP. BTW, Igneous Shield as it sits right now on PTS adds +30% Healing done, that equates to an additional 10% for GDB, because I know some of you immediately thought of that when I said to increase it to 40%. It's 33% on Live just so those of you know, +7% more isn't much of a stretch.

If anyone has additional ideas please post them and I may add them to this post. It'd be great to see some outside the box thinking here but keep in mind that suggestions should be regarding Class abilities/passives because ANY buff to the Resto Staff tree also buffs Templars.

Kragorn

DeLindsay wrote: »

TL;DR: Do NOT Homogenize all 4 Classes so that they Heal the same but instead improve on each Class's strengths so that each Healer stays unique while remaining competitive.

Can't work.

ZOS can't possibly design battle content if the game has several 'types' of healer which are situational and therefore have to script a fight depending on group make-up or else content that DEMANDS a specific healer type for this boss, a different one for the next boss, etc.

Games like GW2 show how craptastic group content is when no-one is a 'real' healer, tanks can't taunt, etc.

Flaminir

Really really interesting.

My main (Sorc) has actually been a healer for most of his life.... but recently changed to DPS as it was just a hassle getting into groups as a sorc healer (As you mention).

My concern for Sorcs from a healing perspective in 1.6 is that they are now bottom of the pile by a long way...

The reason: All classes can stack magicka/spell power as you suggest to get the same strength resto heals, except NB's & DK's have siphoning/Shields that can help as well. in 1.6 with people maxing magicka to get the strongest DPS/HPS, magicka management will be less of an issue.

The one thing Sorcs had going for them was Surge... this made them the strongest resto staff healers pre 1.6! Now with soft caps gone, and surge nerfed to uselessness this is no longer the case.

Sorcs have basically no normal class skills that buff their group in any way.

DeLindsay

Kragorn wrote: »

Can't work.

ZOS can't possibly design battle content if the game has several 'types' of healer which are situational and therefore have to script a fight depending on group make-up or else content that DEMANDS a specific healer type for this boss, a different one for the next boss, etc.

If that's a jib at ZoS for their lack of ability to balance things in ESO and I'm not getting the sarcasm then yes I agree. However if that's serious then I'm not sure where you come from on that angle.

As a NB Healer I'm almost dead on competitive with Templar Healers and only going to close that gap further in 1.6. If ZoS were to implement the changes I suggest then all 3 non-Templar Classes would be that much more viable (as I said, NB doesn't really need the help much) without further increasing Templar Healing by just buffing the Resto tree. I just want to see Players actually playing how they want (without the WoW route of dumbing everyone down to be the same), and not everyone likes the Templar Class but loves Healing. It's discouraging for them when it's tough getting groups all because of an ignorant stigma against them (the Class, not the Player). A guy can wish right?

eliisra

I'd love to work on tanking in PvE and killing stuff in PvP on my templar. Yet I'm always healing. Reason: If I dont heal we dont have enough heals and people die. So I naturally feel obligated to keep them BoL's coming. Also why I'd like to see other classes in the healing role.

Some ideas:
Sorcerer: The class has 0 good skills for support and heal, why? Only spamming resto gets boring. Could do something with Empowered Ward, simliar to Obsidian Shield with 6 targets. Trash the 25% dmg pet buff thing and make it a proper support skill that shields nearby allies, with a secondary minor buff like increased armor and spell res.

Nightblade: Refreshing Path could be a good heal- and support skill. Right now it does 3 different things, but isn't especially effective at any of it. Some pitiful fluff healing, speedy self-buff and a weak AoE DoT. Mediocre tank skill at best. Maybe substantially increase the HoT from standing in the path, while reducing speed or DoT? Considering it's longer duration, it could work nicely together with Healing Springs.

DeLindsay

davedwildebeast wrote: »

in 1.6 with people maxing magicka to get the strongest DPS/HPS, magicka management will be less of an issue.

I think we will see a distinct change in this behavior once 1.6 actually hits Live. Those Players who are spamming Magicka/Stamina while dropping nothing in Health only have 14-16K Health in PvE and will be 1-shot by many Boss abilities in Vet Dungeons and Trials. Right now we're seeing that 18-23K is the minimum Health needed to survive such abilities like Bogdan's Ground Slam in Vet EH which hits on PTS for 18K. IIRC, the Atronach in AA on PTS is hitting for 21K, but I could be wrong.

My Healing build for example on PTS (same gear/attributes as Live) when NA had access was ~24K Magicka and ~21K Health, quite reasonable for both. That's with 5pc Mara, 4pc Healer's Habit and 2pc EG set, all Legendary except Jewelry. I doubt I will have to tweak that build much to reflect specific Boss abilities. Time will tell ofc, but hopefully @ZOS_JessicaFolsom or @ZOS_GinaBruno will happen by this thread (I don't know if either of them handle these type of suggestions) and we can get even a 'maybe' out of them. Hell I'd settle for an 'interesting' lol.

HeroOfNone

As for DK healing: I have healed through different dungeons on my DK, but it is really situational right now. Bubble healing, aka damage shield stack then heal heal heal, is something that requires pre setup so your group doesn't die. See a major hit incoming? Igneous shield and prepare healing springs. Rushing a keep you should have magma shell going BEFORE and hope someone is smart enough to hit the synergy. This pre-disaster management is good but has issues when the healer lags, they get cced, and other factors.

There are ways to fix this by tweaking abilities to give immunity to cc, higher healing to others, or giving maybe some passives to ultimate generation for magma shell, but that's still all subjective. I think a big thing a DK needs is a rescue of some kind when a mistake is made. Not sure what that is, but I'm sure people will *** about it in pvp.

DeLindsay

heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »

As for DK healing: I have healed through different dungeons on my DK, but it is really situational right now. Bubble healing, aka damage shield stack then heal heal heal, is something that requires pre setup so your group doesn't die. See a major hit incoming? Igneous shield and prepare healing springs. Rushing a keep you should have magma shell going BEFORE and hope someone is smart enough to hit the synergy. This pre-disaster management is good but has issues when the healer lags, they get cced, and other factors.

There are ways to fix this by tweaking abilities to give immunity to cc, higher healing to others, or giving maybe some passives to ultimate generation for magma shell, but that's still all subjective. I think a big thing a DK needs is a rescue of some kind when a mistake is made. Not sure what that is, but I'm sure people will *** about it in pvp.

The comment you make about PvP is exactly why I took the approach I did in tweaking what the 3 Classes already have to improve their Healing but not at the same time make them the new stupid-OP in PvP. Removing the Shield from the Synergy of Magma Shell and putting on use (just like VoB's damage reduction by standing in it, but the Slip Away is the Synergy) would be of great help. Also slightly increasing the Shield and Heal portions of Ingeous would help as well. Yes they aren't huge changes but I don't think they could be without severely imbalancing PvP.

Also, there's no way to just buff the Resto Tree without also increasing Templar Healing, thus negating the whole topic of bringing the other 3 Healers more inline with Templars. I may not have the best ideas for doing so, but tweaking Class abilities/passives I think makes more sense and still allows for differences in how each Heals. You know how us NB's Heal, we're HoT monsters. Sure I use Healing Springs, Combat Prayer and Ward Ally but I always have both RR and Funnel Health running at all times when Healing. Thus an improvement via a Passive specific to HoT Healing makes sense for NB's.

Flaminir

DeLindsay wrote: »

davedwildebeast wrote: »

in 1.6 with people maxing magicka to get the strongest DPS/HPS, magicka management will be less of an issue.

I think we will see a distinct change in this behavior once 1.6 actually hits Live. Those Players who are spamming Magicka/Stamina while dropping nothing in Health only have 14-16K Health in PvE and will be 1-shot by many Boss abilities in Vet Dungeons and Trials. Right now we're seeing that 18-23K is the minimum Health needed to survive such abilities like Bogdan's Ground Slam in Vet EH which hits on PTS for 18K. IIRC, the Atronach in AA on PTS is hitting for 21K, but I could be wrong.

I don't think you're wrong at all... I think you just hit the nail on the head... people will be forced to put a bit more into health in PvE.... but there will still be more in Magicka than there is now, hence magicka management will be a very small issue, if an issue at all.

And my main point from a Sorc healer perspective is that it was Surge that made a difference for us... without it all classes have better support/healing abilities than us.

This has kinda gone under the radar a bit in all the other Sorc complaint threads, probably because there aren't many main Sorc healers out there to complain.... but 1.6 in its current form looks like it will move the Sorc into last place on the healer front. And they're already last in tanking, and also looks like 1.6 PvE is last in the DPS charts too (Still strong in PvP though).

DeLindsay

davedwildebeast wrote: »

I don't think you're wrong at all... I think you just hit the nail on the head... people will be forced to put a bit more into health in PvE.... but there will still be more in Magicka than there is now, hence magicka management will be a very small issue, if an issue at all.

And my main point from a Sorc healer perspective is that it was Surge that made a difference for us... without it all classes have better support/healing abilities than us.

This has kinda gone under the radar a bit in all the other Sorc complaint threads, probably because there aren't many main Sorc healers out there to complain.... but 1.6 in its current form looks like it will move the Sorc into last place on the healer front. And they're already last in tanking, and also looks like 1.6 PvE is last in the DPS charts too (Still strong in PvP though).

For sure I think there will still end up being those few builds that reach the 20K-ish Health range while still having ~30K Magicka in PvE. As for Sorcs and Surge, I agree that made you unique but I honestly think with the 2 changes I suggest Sorcs could become the most efficient Healers in the game. I certainly can't stack full Spell Damage on my NB unless I'm in a very good group who knows all the fights and is in TS/Vent just in case I still OOM. I could however see Sorcs with the above changes stacking Spell Damage just like a DPS does while still having just as efficient Healing as me running mostly Regen/cost reduction gear.

I'd also love to see more Sorc Tanks and Temlar DPS (Stamina or Magicka, doesn't matter). My suggestions are meant to further differentiate the 4 Healers and bolster the uniqueness of each using the specific strengths they still have in 1.6 on PTS. Since ZoS changed the scaling of Staves that means Surge is out so Dark Conversion opens up as the most unique Sorc ability in regards to a Healing Role. My purposed change to Summoned Storm Atronach would be VERY valuable on burn phases as it adds not only the standard base damage but giving all Magicka users 10% reduced cost means that much more burn before having to Heavy attack to regen.

I don't honestly see ZoS caring much or even responding to this thread but at least it's good to know there are those of us playing ESO that are passionate about our craft and willing to look into change to keep the Classes relevant without nerfing one Class down the the level of the other 3 to "solve the problem". ZoS has said repeatedly that's their design goal, to bring up the other 3 Classes instead of nerfing the 1 everyone complains about. Sorcs/Dks have been on the blunt end of that stick too many times since launch.

DeLindsay

I have submitted this conceptual idea through the in game Feedback on PTS, #150209-001582. Possibly requesting ZoS move this thread to the PTS section if that is warranted.

ashlee17

Great thread DeLindsay. I really like your idea for sheild and heal DKs in particular.

I would love to see zos make healing more viable for classes other than Templar.

All classes should be given unique but effective healing tools.

I think it would benefit everyone in the game.

My main is a Templar healer. I would love to be able to practice my dps and tanking skills on the games harder content more often but currently rarely get the chance because I am needed as a healer.

Giving other classes acess to better healing skills won't devalue my Templar.

It will give Templars the oppertunity to play roles other than heals and give other classes a better chance to learn healing in endgame content.

It's a win/win from where I stand. Hope zos sees this thread! Nice work.

DeLindsay

ashlee17 wrote: »

Giving other classes acess to better healing skills won't devalue my Templar.

It will give Templars the oppertunity to play roles other than heals and give other classes a better chance to learn healing in endgame content.

It's a win/win from where I stand. Hope zos sees this thread! Nice work.

This exactly. I'm so glad someone else gets the idea that bringing up the 3 other Classes for Healing without just buffing the Resto tree is the best solution, also not nerfing Templar Healing in any way. I also still have no problem with Templar still retaining the title of highest HPS, highest burst in groups of 4 or smaller, easiest to heal with for harder content or bad pugs, etc. This idea is strictly to further develop the individual uniqueness that the 3 non-Templar Classes have. I'd love to see the day that "Classes" are no longer even on anyone's mind in ESO and it's just "LF2M Heals and a Tank" with no regard to what Class they play.

Seraphyel

The thing is, Resto Staff is in most parts just boring. I don't get why there are no weapon ultimates. The whole "healing" in the game is rather limited. I am glad that in 1.6 they introduce at least 2 new heal skills (morph of the Necrotic Orb and the Assault heal for stamina), but it's still not enough.

There could be another weapon set for healers as well for casters, because they seem quite limited, too.

Why is there no Mages Guild ability for healing?

Nevertheless, I like the ideas.

DK-Healer = Absorb & Shield healer

NB-Healer = HoTs

etc.

DeLindsay

Seraphyel wrote: »

The thing is, Resto Staff is in most parts just boring. I don't get why there are no weapon ultimates. The whole "healing" in the game is rather limited. I am glad that in 1.6 they introduce at least 2 new heal skills (morph of the Necrotic Orb and the Assault heal for stamina), but it's still not enough.

Yeah I've been playing with that ability and it's pretty cool. Time will tell whether it's actually useful for it's high cost (costs the same as Ward/BoL).

DeLindsay

According to Eric Wrobel (sp?) in today's Live Stream they want to make it so that there are many builds used by Players while maintaining balance in the game. The suggestions here would be a good way to allow different build types by focusing on each non-Templar Class's strengths in a Healing Role. Granted they'd still all be "Healers" but at least with a few tweaks they could end up Healing in very different manners while using the Resto Staff tree. Any thoughts @ZOS_GinaBruno?

Seraphyel

Exactly what DeLindsay says.

I am fine with:

Templar: Burst healer
Nightblade: HoTs
Dragon Knight: Shield healer

But Sorcs need another kind of role, much more focussed in healing. They need at least ONE distinct class ability that will help them. Maybe some kind of "healing" morph from their pets - healing Atronarch or healing Twilight would be great and would add something special.

LtCrunch

Seraphyel wrote: »

Exactly what DeLindsay says.

I am fine with:

Templar: Burst healer
Nightblade: HoTs
Dragon Knight: Shield healer

But Sorcs need another kind of role, much more focussed in healing. They need at least ONE distinct class ability that will help them. Maybe some kind of "healing" morph from their pets - healing Atronarch or healing Twilight would be great and would add something special.

Could change the twilight matriarch morph so it heals any nearby allies when they fall below 35% health instead of only applying to the caster and maybe reduce it's current 30 second CD a bit.

DeLindsay

Seraphyel wrote: »

Exactly what DeLindsay says.

I am fine with:

Templar: Burst healer
Nightblade: HoTs
Dragon Knight: Shield healer

But Sorcs need another kind of role, much more focussed in healing. They need at least ONE distinct class ability that will help them. Maybe some kind of "healing" morph from their pets - healing Atronarch or healing Twilight would be great and would add something special.

Although I don't know the exact details Eric did elude to a Passive change with Sorcs in 1.6.3 that will give them much more Spell Damage with Class abilities slotted. He implied this would help Sorc DPS and Healing so we'll have to wait and see.

Brandalf wrote: »

Could change the twilight matriarch morph so it heals any nearby allies when they fall below 35% health instead of only applying to the caster and maybe reduce it's current 30 second CD a bit.

That's certainly interesting.

Seraphyel

I think the morph is too special to be really useful. Maybe with another addition of some kind of AoE HoT given by the Twilight it could be a nice addition of rescue healing.

DeLindsay

Seraphyel wrote: »

I think the morph is too special to be really useful. Maybe with another addition of some kind of AoE HoT given by the Twilight it could be a nice addition of rescue healing.

What about instead of 10% Magicka cost reduction to the Summoned Charged Atronach idea, it instead gave a HoT or Health Regen bonus. Both would have to be fairly minor per tick as the Ultimate lasts a long time but maybe it could be worked that over it's duration it regens 50% of the Allies Health?

Elloa

Kragorn wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

TL;DR: Do NOT Homogenize all 4 Classes so that they Heal the same but instead improve on each Class's strengths so that each Healer stays unique while remaining competitive.

Can't work.

ZOS can't possibly design battle content if the game has several 'types' of healer which are situational and therefore have to script a fight depending on group make-up or else content that DEMANDS a specific healer type for this boss, a different one for the next boss, etc.

Games like GW2 show how craptastic group content is when no-one is a 'real' healer, tanks can't taunt, etc.

I disagree. All classes should be capable to endorse all roles. Sorcerer, Nightblade, and Dragonknight should be healers once they use a resto staff...and in the same way, Templar should be able to heal without using a resto staff (the spells of the resto staff and Restoration skill line should redondant, and atm, its not what we have).
Because in a game where you are supposed to play what you want, you should be capable to play healer with the class you want, or being a Templar and heal with the weapon you want.

Seraphyel

DeLindsay wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

I think the morph is too special to be really useful. Maybe with another addition of some kind of AoE HoT given by the Twilight it could be a nice addition of rescue healing.

What about instead of 10% Magicka cost reduction to the Summoned Charged Atronach idea, it instead gave a HoT or Health Regen bonus. Both would have to be fairly minor per tick as the Ultimate lasts a long time but maybe it could be worked that over it's duration it regens 50% of the Allies Health?

Sure. There are dozens ways they could implement it.

Spottswoode

DeLindsay wrote: »

Although I don't know the exact details Eric did elude to a Passive change with Sorcs in 1.6.3 that will give them much more Spell Damage with Class abilities slotted. He implied this would help Sorc DPS and Healing so we'll have to wait and see.

I would actually be quite fine with Sorcs having the best heal staff heals. This would make them more flexible than other healers. I have to admit though, sorcs are really hurting for healing skills. They don't have any good ultimates for the job either. (Absorption field is ok, I guess.)
I would like to see them share overhealing. That's always been a favored mechanic of mine. In this particular case, it would make sorcs focus on avoiding damage and self healing. Twilight Matriarch would become quite useful for this mechanic. Combined with the higher spell power, it would make Sorcs a pretty unique healer.
I have no idea what to do about ultimates though. That's always been a problem with sorcs.

Elloa wrote: »

I disagree. All classes should be capable to endorse all roles. Sorcerer, Nightblade, and Dragonknight should be healers once they use a resto staff...and in the same way, Templar should be able to heal without using a resto staff (the spells of the resto staff and Restoration skill line should redondant, and atm, its not what we have).

Templars are actually getting there with regard to being able to heal without the staff. Making Baclash an instant cast has really made healing a lot less of a pain with constant Purifying Light drops.

Murmeltier

davedwildebeast wrote: »

Really really interesting.

My main (Sorc) has actually been a healer for most of his life.... but recently changed to DPS as it was just a hassle getting into groups as a sorc healer (As you mention).

My concern for Sorcs from a healing perspective in 1.6 is that they are now bottom of the pile by a long way...

The reason: All classes can stack magicka/spell power as you suggest to get the same strength resto heals, except NB's & DK's have siphoning/Shields that can help as well. in 1.6 with people maxing magicka to get the strongest DPS/HPS, magicka management will be less of an issue.

The one thing Sorcs had going for them was Surge... this made them the strongest resto staff healers pre 1.6! Now with soft caps gone, and surge nerfed to uselessness this is no longer the case.

Sorcs have basically no normal class skills that buff their group in any way.

Sorry but this isnt right. You can get more Spellpower with Surge, if you want to use it for a greater Heal on the Staff on 1.6. Sure, you dont have the Selfheal anymore but without the Cap you are higher in Spellpower with Surge, if you use it, then others.

Try to get Spellpower over Sets etc, then add Surge on it, a Sorcerer will be always higher if he want to max out Spellpower.

Before the 1.6 a Sorcerer wasnt a Mainhealer in the Trials and Vet-Dungeons, maybe some there was some Exceptions but they wasnt the Rule.

A good Templar-Player manages his Mana good enough to heal the Group the whole Time.

Surge isnt uselessness, but i wont discuss this Skill atm. As a VR14 Templar-Healer, and i heal the most Things Ingame, i can say a Sorcerer wasnt competive before.

The Sorcerer is more the Offhealer-Type, he could help in the Trials z.b. As a Support-Healer.

But the 1.6 it will change a lot of Stuff, we can see a new Direction here. I hope the Classes stays unique.

AshySamurai

I agree with statment that every class should be equal in healing. But we get the same issue which we have with LA vs other armor. Most of skills was magika/spell crit/spell power based and it maked a big difference in magika vs stamina. With healing we have templars (10 skills + Ult) vs any other class (5 skills). You don't have to be a genius to see why templar always will be better for healing.

Seraphyel

There are classes with skills that endevaour healing - Funnel Health or Soul Siphon from Nightblades, Path of Darkness with its recent changes, Igneous Shield from DKs...

If Zenimax want to, they could make every class a viable healer. It's just dumb that Templars have a whole skill line dedicated to healing when others haven't. That totally ruines Zenimax approach of opening up every role for everybody.

DeLindsay

AshySamurai wrote: »

I agree with statment that every class should be equal in healing. But we get the same issue which we have with LA vs other armor. Most of skills was magika/spell crit/spell power based and it maked a big difference in magika vs stamina. With healing we have templars (10 skills + Ult) vs any other class (5 skills). You don't have to be a genius to see why templar always will be better for healing.

I agree and I even said as much in the OP that this concept is about bringing UP the 3 non-Templars a little while NOT nerfing Templars and at the same time further diversifying the Classes in their Healing Role. Most have no issue with Templars being King/Queen of the Healers, so that's not an issue in this thread. All I'm asking ZoS is that they take the strengths each Class has, in regards to Healing, and bolster them so that they are a little stronger while Healing thus trying to erode the perception that many have that nobody but Templars can Heal.

Murmeltier

You cant discuss such a Theme without seeing the whole Base. As Teso starts there was a specialized Bonus / Direction for each Class.

The Templars have had the strongest Heals and Passives for Healing and all other Class have had other Special Bonus Passives and Skills, like Stealth / Pets / CCs and Damageskills.

If someone was really hot for Healing, he choosed a Templar. You dont choose a Templar before 1.6 to be a pure DPS. If someone wants a sneaky Assasin he choosed a Nightblade for an Example.

Every Class have its own Special Direction and Bonus. The System starts with that and we see there are plenty off all Classes played in Game. Not only Templars or DKs.

But Zenimax offer some Words, one of the worsest Things they have ever done. These Words *You can play what you want* i read ever and ever again from the Players.

They demand that they can be competive in Healing / Damage / Tanking with every Class. Because if they are not competive, they say *We cant play what we want*.

Yes, for the Trials and Veteran Dungeons, mostly Templar Healers are searched. But you can see that mostly Sorcerers / NIghtblades/ DKs will be searched for DPS. That was the System, everyone knows that from the Start. The Words *You can play what you want* doesnt fits in there.

Dont missunderstand the Words *You can Play what you want* for the Endgame. You can play with every Class in the most Dungeons or Dailys, if you are good in playing.

But a Raid for the Trials will ever search a Templar before a Sorcerer. It is a MMORPG Reflex from the Players, they want always the specialised Class.

But thats a Player Problem, they search only the best Way and fast Tactics in Endgame.

So every Class has it own good passives and Skills before the 1.6. Every Player knows about this as he choosed a Class to play. But with the 1.6 they changed the whole System.

So here is the great Question, is that a Start that every Class can do the same specialised Work at the End? Then we need no Classes anymore, give us Points and we choose our own Skills, so all have the equal Options.

No Templars, Sorcerers, DKs, and Nightblades anymore. Only Points and Skills. I dont like this Idea, if Zenimax wants this they should have implement this right from the Start.

Why i say this. Because if you want to push up the Heals for Sorcerers or other Classes, so they can be competive in the Endgame you will destroy the Unique Side of each Class.

The Templars have to be competive for DPS then too and maybe some Sneak on Top off it, because i cant play my Templar as want and so on. To change the System like that, you cant pick only some Things for some Classes, then you start a great Downfall.

But here is the Problem, the 1.6 offers stronger Heals in the Restoration-Staff and the Templer gets more Damage. Zenimax tries here to feed the *We want play what we want* Singers and try to save the unique Side of the Classes too.

As a VR14 Templar-Healer i can say, if they ever kill my Healing Skills and Passives, i will have the same DPS Skills & Passives like the other Classes because i cant be competive and i cant play what i want.

For sure, they start with erasing the Templar Passives, they killed the 30% on Crit for healing Targets with lower Hitpoints but i think they changed it to 10% more Heal on the same Targets, because of the 1.6.

For a Templar it is a very bad Change, we dont need to discuss this. If they kill more of the Passives, i go and play a Sorcerer or DK. So if you want to push the Restoration-Staff so Players can be competive in Healing at the Endgame, it will Destroy the unique Side of the Classes.

The Staff never will be competive in Endgame without a Burstheal like Rushed Ceremony. No Raid will take a Sorcerer with a pushed Restoration-Staff Line, without that Burstheal.

If they give an equal (equal means in Numbers) Heal to the Restoration-Staff Line, you dont have to play a Templar anymore. But then we can start to rip off the whole Skills, like i said before. A very bad Idea.

For the End, i really miss the good old Times, where a Healer was always better in Healing and a Tank always was better in Tanking. Maybe this old System is not so flexibel but i feeled more unique and specialised before.

I like it more than this *You can play all what you want* System. Its not bad but i am an old Dog, i will see old Systems dying and new System rising. Thats the Way, we will see how the new Generation works.

P.S: Sorry for the Wall of Text, i havent had a Breakfast before.

DeLindsay

Murmeltier wrote: »

The Staff never will be competive in Endgame without a Burstheal like Rushed Ceremony. No Raid will take a Sorcerer with a pushed Restoration-Staff Line, without that Burstheal.

If they give an equal (equal means in Numbers) Heal to the Restoration-Staff Line, you dont have to play a Templar anymore. But then we can start to rip off the whole Skills, like i said before. A very bad Idea.

I'm sorry to derail your post but you are incorrect. Trial runs already take non-Templars, including Sorcs, as their main Healers, just not as often as Templars. I Heal with all 4 Classes and this thread took a careful look at the big picture. I'm not asking ZoS to make NB/DK/Sorc better Healers than Templars, nor is anyone else. We're asking that ZoS use specific abilities/passives within those 3 Classes to bolster how they Heal to further make each Class a unique style of Healer. I also specifically said NOT to just buff the Resto Staff tree.

Murmeltier

DeLindsay wrote: »

Murmeltier wrote: »

The Staff never will be competive in Endgame without a Burstheal like Rushed Ceremony. No Raid will take a Sorcerer with a pushed Restoration-Staff Line, without that Burstheal.

If they give an equal (equal means in Numbers) Heal to the Restoration-Staff Line, you dont have to play a Templar anymore. But then we can start to rip off the whole Skills, like i said before. A very bad Idea.

I'm sorry to derail your post but you are incorrect. Trial runs already take non-Templars, including Sorcs, as their main Healers, just not as often as Templars. I Heal with all 4 Classes and this thread took a careful look at the big picture. I'm not asking ZoS to make NB/DK/Sorc better Healers than Templars, nor is anyone else. We're asking that ZoS use specific abilities/passives within those 3 Classes to bolster how they Heal to further make each Class a unique style of Healer. I also specifically said NOT to just buff the Resto Staff tree.

It is np, i believe you that a good Guild Group take some trained Sorcerers with them, as a Main Healer. But as i said, thats not the Rule, this works only in a Group that stand together on the right Places.

All Raidmembers that done Hel Ra or ÄA, Sanctum knows that there are always Situations where you need a Burstheal like Rushed Ceremony. Thats the Reason why mostly Templars in there.

So what i say is not false, Templars are mostly searched, in Vet Dungeons and Trials. The Raids that only works with Sorcerers or other Non-Templars are very very rare.

As i said before, i heal all and everything but i never see a whole Raid or Veteran Dungeon that search a Sorcerer or let them heal alone. That should show how rare they are. With a very good Guildgroup maybe, but the most good Guilds have Templars on Board.

For the Restoration-Staff Thing, yes thats right. For me this is the only Way to push up the Heals for all Classes without changing old Skills and adding new Healing Skills for the other Classes.

This Option is actually discussed into the Forums and Zenimax try to push the Line. But here, i missread your Intention because you said no Restoration-Staff Ideas, they will push the Templars too. My Fault, sorry. But the Infos about the Restoration-Staff Problem is right.

If you want to Change the Skills for each Class to be a unique Healer that can be competive in Endgame, it will rip the whole old System apart. Then all other Classes want to be competive in Tanking / DPS and other unique Mechanics like Stealth, too. Then we need no Classes anymore.