Paygate and ppl rant

ShadowDisciple

Can anyone explain why ppl are angry about the DLC being purchased for cash when they dont have to pay 15$ sub anymore...and on top of that if u pay monthly DLC wil be free to you...

Imo B2P if it doesent turn into P2W is a great thing f or ESO....

I also saw ppl sayin that in C yrodill all those " noobs" wont work tog ether....IMO they can be used as a diversion or increased f irepower along with your properly funtioning group...

Am i a f ool t o think B2P i only g ood f or the ga me

Wolfsspinne

There are some people who feel like they are something better if they can show to the world that they are able to afford a monthly sub-fee.

rawne1980b16_ESO

It is a good thing.

It will bring in more players.

The people that seem to think having about a years experience in a game makes them an ESO god are so delusional it's ridiculous. New players will catch them up in no time, it's not exactly a hard game to learn.

3 way PvP isn't new, it started in DAoC which a lot of folk have played at some point and then appeared in GW2. Pretty sure some folk buying on console or new PC players will know what they are doing.

Even if they haven't played one of those, Cyrodiil is about as basic as it comes for PvP. Takes a few hours to pick it all up at most. Same with the actual game.

MMO's have been around since 1996, at one time or another a hell of a lot of folk have played one or more. They won't exactly have a hard time learning this game.

As for people complaining, nothing we can do about that. Don't try using logic against them it will just confuse them.

If they keep their sub, DLC is free, if they drop their sub they will have to pay for it. Not hard to understand but some people can't seem to grasp it.

Way I look at it is, if people like that can manage to play this game ... anybody can.

AshySamurai

Is anyone afraid of what will happen to this community when f2p/b2p comes?

Funkopotamus

Wolfsspinne wrote: »

There are some people who feel like they are something better if they can show to the world that they are able to afford a monthly sub-fee.

You sound like you are jaded in some way? Do you stand outside of a fine restaurant and tell people they are only eating there because they feel it shows the world the can afford food other than fast food? Maybe they are there because the cost most of the time = better QUALITY!

Fact is if there is a "Paywall" there are ALWAYS less chances of running across players trolling or cheating in games. If said person gets the account ban then they have to not only BUY the game again, but also shell out the Sub fee all over again. If the game is FTP all the person has to do is make another Email and they are right back to griefing the player base at the cost of what 3 minutes?

Audigy

So many insults already... makes the whole thread pointless imo.

I cant speak for others here, but for me a non F2P person paying money, but not receiving the good I pay for is weird and smells bad.

If I pay my sub at WOW, Ultima & Co. then I automatically buy the DLC´s. The companies release new content, be it a dungeon, BG, Story line or quests and I can always use it as I buy it by having a sub.

At ESO however and obviously other F2P games you only rent content with your sub and this is at least for me new and also weird.

Maybe this is how things are done among F2P games, I don't know... but at least in my books paying money, but only renting content sounds weird.

If at one point a player might not want to sub anymore, then he is stripped of everything he paid for, its a miracle to me that such a payment model actually seems to work, but todays generation is different than our old one I guess.

Funkopotamus

Audigy wrote: »

So many insults already... makes the whole thread pointless imo.

I cant speak for others here, but for me a non F2P person paying money, but not receiving the good I pay for is weird and smells bad.

If I pay my sub at WOW, Ultima & Co. then I automatically buy the DLC´s. The companies release new content, be it a dungeon, BG, Story line or quests and I can always use it as I buy it by having a sub.

At ESO however and obviously other F2P games you only rent content with your sub and this is at least for me new and also weird.

Maybe this is how things are done among F2P games, I don't know... but at least in my books paying money, but only renting content sounds weird.

If at one point a player might not want to sub anymore, then he is stripped of everything he paid for, its a miracle to me that such a payment model actually seems to work, but todays generation is different than our old one I guess.

The first game I ran into with this model was DDO years ago. I was just like you are.. I was shocked and kinda felt like I was being ripped off if I did not just straight BUY the content I wanted to play.. But at least this is ESO and there does not "To me anyway" Seem to be piles of dungeons that one cannot run without buying them..

DDO it seemed every other dungeon you wanted to run had to be bought or ran from premium. Maybe ESO will work towards that, but as they have already made clear they are not pushing any DLC at us for the rest of 2015 so I would guess they are going to sit and let the console players "catch up" and soak up the content that is in game right now so do not get to worried about the DLC stuff for a long while.

ShadowDisciple

Audigy wrote: »

If at one point a player might not want to sub anymore, then he is stripped of everything he paid for, its a miracle to me that such a payment model actually seems to work, but todays generation is different than our old one I guess.

U dont get how it is gonna be...u dont rent anything...once DLC hits out you get it automatically for life...i may be mistaken but thats how i got it

Funkopotamus

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

If at one point a player might not want to sub anymore, then he is stripped of everything he paid for, its a miracle to me that such a payment model actually seems to work, but todays generation is different than our old one I guess.

U dont get how it is gonna be...u dont rent anything...once DLC hits out you get it automatically for life...i may be mistaken but thats how i got it

You know THAT is a great question.. There are two models to they could use.. DDO/RIFT where you have to BUY DLC... Or they could go like Guild Wars as you said if you are subbed or online within the release time you OWN the DLC..

They kinda do need to make this clear huh?

Lordstarfox

Funkopotamus wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

If at one point a player might not want to sub anymore, then he is stripped of everything he paid for, its a miracle to me that such a payment model actually seems to work, but todays generation is different than our old one I guess.

U dont get how it is gonna be...u dont rent anything...once DLC hits out you get it automatically for life...i may be mistaken but thats how i got it

You know THAT is a great question.. There are two models to they could use.. DDO/RIFT where you have to BUY DLC... Or they could go like Guild Wars as you said if you are subbed or online within the release time you OWN the DLC..

They kinda do need to make this clear huh?

I believe they already did.
While you are subbed you can play ALL the DLC's without paying anything. If you decide to unsub at some point you lose access to all DLC, unless you use some of your monthly 1500crown points that come with the subscription to buy the DLC separately.

knaveofengland

out with the old in with the new , example with new players have you tried to buy iron ingots maple jute rawhide most are over priced or none to sell in guild stores am in 5 guilds all maxed very hard to buy some .

so on this point alone the newer players I will welcome on any business model
that bring in new players and keep them , so this new business model is very good business .

take eve online been going years subs based limited players if they made it free to play they open the game up , in time they will have to when the player base drops, so this business model is good period.

MasterSpatula

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

If at one point a player might not want to sub anymore, then he is stripped of everything he paid for, its a miracle to me that such a payment model actually seems to work, but todays generation is different than our old one I guess.

U dont get how it is gonna be...u dont rent anything...once DLC hits out you get it automatically for life...i may be mistaken but thats how i got it

Nope. You buy the DLC or you sub. If your sub runs out, then you only have access to any DLC you may have bought. If you've never bought any DLC, you'll have access to none of it.

Grebnu

"At ESO however and obviously other F2P games you only rent content with your sub and this is at least for me new and also weird."


This game is not going to be F2P! Is it so hard to understand?

I just hate it when people go around yelling "ESO IS GOINT TO F2P!" when that is actually not true. If you behave like a donkey and get your account banned, you have to buy the game all over again. You cannot just "make a new account"...

Please people, try to understand difference between F2P ja B2P. Is GW2 F2P? No. ESO will not be F2P either.

Saint_JiubB14_ESO

Funkopotamus wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

If at one point a player might not want to sub anymore, then he is stripped of everything he paid for, its a miracle to me that such a payment model actually seems to work, but todays generation is different than our old one I guess.

U dont get how it is gonna be...u dont rent anything...once DLC hits out you get it automatically for life...i may be mistaken but thats how i got it

You know THAT is a great question.. There are two models to they could use.. DDO/RIFT where you have to BUY DLC... Or they could go like Guild Wars as you said if you are subbed or online within the release time you OWN the DLC..

They kinda do need to make this clear huh?

They have, if you are subbed you get the DLC free, no sub no DLC for free. Or you buy the DLC and regardless of whether you are subbed or not, you get access to that DLC content you purchased. So if they release 4 DLC updates, and you are not subbed you would have to buy them each individually, or you could sub and immediately gain access to the content, and if you unsub you will no longer have access.

Khaldar

Wolfsspinne wrote: »

There are some people who feel like they are something better if they can show to the world that they are able to afford a monthly sub-fee.

If people judge their status on the fact that they can afford a meager $15 a month, then they have some screws loose. Its more likely they are afraid of the game turning into P2W and then the real high rollers will make them look insignificant.

Wolfsspinne

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Wolfsspinne wrote: »

There are some people who feel like they are something better if they can show to the world that they are able to afford a monthly sub-fee.

You sound like you are jaded in some way? Do you stand outside of a fine restaurant and tell people they are only eating there because they feel it shows the world the can afford food other than fast food? Maybe they are there because the cost most of the time = better QUALITY!

Fact is if there is a "Paywall" there are ALWAYS less chances of running across players trolling or cheating in games.

= if you pay you are automatically better

As I said...

Funkopotamus

Wolfsspinne wrote: »

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Wolfsspinne wrote: »

There are some people who feel like they are something better if they can show to the world that they are able to afford a monthly sub-fee.

You sound like you are jaded in some way? Do you stand outside of a fine restaurant and tell people they are only eating there because they feel it shows the world the can afford food other than fast food? Maybe they are there because the cost most of the time = better QUALITY!

Fact is if there is a "Paywall" there are ALWAYS less chances of running across players trolling or cheating in games.

= if you pay you are automatically better

As I said...

Or same could be said back you honestly..

If you cant pay = Just bring the rest of the world down to your financial despair....

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Wolfsspinne wrote: »

There are some people who feel like they are something better if they can show to the world that they are able to afford a monthly sub-fee.

While there are maybe a few like that, seems to me the biggest reason by far is people who think that 'kidz' only play free games and that if you can afford to pay a sub. then you're a mature adult and the gaming community is entirely not toxic.

Given WOW is the biggest subscription based game and has arguably the most toxic community, I really don't know how people who think like this can believe it; but just read round here, it's a very frequently stated reason why people say they hate F2P games.

Digiman

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Can anyone explain why ppl are angry about the DLC being purchased for cash when they dont have to pay 15$ sub anymore...and on top of that if u pay monthly DLC wil be free to you...

Imo B2P if it doesent turn into P2W is a great thing f or ESO....

I also saw ppl sayin that in C yrodill all those " noobs" wont work tog ether....IMO they can be used as a diversion or increased f irepower along with your properly funtioning group...

Am i a f ool t o think B2P i only g ood f or the ga me

Never use a buzz word combined with the word "gate". That's just terrible for everyone and ruins the quality of the world like a stain on the soul.

But I do agree that most of this nonesense about quitting over not being forced to pay $15 dollars a month is silly and frankly an empty threat as your no longer required to pay to play and your still able to get on to play later when you come back. Which was ZoS initial goal for this.

Others think it will bring the rabble in who will spam gold buying, even though that still happens, ruin the game chat because that has been a fountain of wisdom and civility.

Finally they are worried about the state the forums will take, because again everything has been civil and polite and will be up to the release of B2P scheme.

When really they just want to be elitist prats, who care nothing for progress and longevity of the game other then the fact they have to share it with people who will have to buy it to play but not required to pay a subscription fee for it.

It's a win win, we get new players and your now properly rewarded for supporting them.

Funkopotamus

Digiman wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Can anyone explain why ppl are angry about the DLC being purchased for cash when they dont have to pay 15$ sub anymore...and on top of that if u pay monthly DLC wil be free to you...

Imo B2P if it doesent turn into P2W is a great thing f or ESO....

I also saw ppl sayin that in C yrodill all those " noobs" wont work tog ether....IMO they can be used as a diversion or increased f irepower along with your properly funtioning group...

Am i a f ool t o think B2P i only g ood f or the ga me

When really they just want to be elitist prats, who care nothing for progress and longevity of the game other then the fact they have to share it with people who will have to buy it to play but not required to pay a subscription fee for it.

It's a win win, we get new players and your now properly rewarded for supporting them.

Lets not forget some of those "Prats" Paved the way for MMO's by supporting the very first MMO's EQ.. I paid a subscription for over 9 years.. Asherons Call for over 7..

If not for those "Prats" the drive to even have an MMO's industry would have never happened to begin with.....

But yes I do hope ESO a long life.. The community is what will keep the players here..

Your so called "Elitist" are the ones that this change favors more than any other type of gamer.. Those are the ones that will abuse the cash shop at any given chance. So do not go attacking a person because they like the $15.00 subscription fee model. Those "Elitists" you speak of are holding daddies credit card right now just waiting for "Max character potions" and "End Game Gear" buttons to light up on the cash shop screen..

Gyudan

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

if it doesent turn into P2W

This is my main concern with the new model.

ShadowDisciple

Gyudan wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

if it doesent turn into P2W

This is my main concern with the new model.

They did specidically say that ingame pots will be better..and that gear will never hit the cash shop...i actually wouldnt mind gear in shop as long its a few tiers worse than ingame gear..i WOULD NOT BUY IT...but i wouldnt care if anyone will...

Legendary set in cash shop.. a big NO NO... random blue items..idc about it xD

MornaBaine

I do feel that if you were subbed when a DLC was released you should automatically own that DLC and still maintain access to it should you unsub later. Otherwise what are you paying for? You get some minor XP boosts and a paltry amount of "crowns" to spend in the cash store. Is THAT worth $15 a month? I don't think so. This whole deal is just shady.

AshySamurai

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

if it doesent turn into P2W

This is my main concern with the new model.

They did specidically say that ingame pots will be better..and that gear will never hit the cash shop...i actually wouldnt mind gear in shop as long its a few tiers worse than ingame gear..i WOULD NOT BUY IT...but i wouldnt care if anyone will...

Legendary set in cash shop.. a big NO NO... random blue items..idc about it xD

And before release they specially said that game won't go b2p/f2p ever. Then they said that they tracking all veteran XP.

cesmode

The announcement brought me back to the game and my brother is probably going to buy it now.

The fact that you dont have to sub to play now gives everyone a choice.

Other than people being concerned that content updates will be slow, I see no downside and I don't see why people rage-quit.

rawne1980b16_ESO

Audigy wrote: »

So many insults already... makes the whole thread pointless imo.

I cant speak for others here, but for me a non F2P person paying money, but not receiving the good I pay for is weird and smells bad.

If I pay my sub at WOW, Ultima & Co. then I automatically buy the DLC´s. The companies release new content, be it a dungeon, BG, Story line or quests and I can always use it as I buy it by having a sub.

At ESO however and obviously other F2P games you only rent content with your sub and this is at least for me new and also weird.

Maybe this is how things are done among F2P games, I don't know... but at least in my books paying money, but only renting content sounds weird.

If at one point a player might not want to sub anymore, then he is stripped of everything he paid for, its a miracle to me that such a payment model actually seems to work, but todays generation is different than our old one I guess.

DCUO is similar to what you are talking about.

If you sub you get all content included but if you stop subbing you only get the basic game unless you buy the DLC separately.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

if it doesent turn into P2W

This is my main concern with the new model.

They did specidically say that ingame pots will be better..and that gear will never hit the cash sho

As someone who played through this same transition in LOTRO, Rift and SW:TOR let me give you a friendly piece of advice, it may help ward off disappointment down the road: don't rely on ZOS keeping to their word, I saw Turbine, Trion and Bioware say exactly the same thing, none kept their word, Trion kept their integrity best but weren't entirely guilt-free, Turbine sold their soul to WB.

Also remember, ZOS have already proved highly capable of telling us one thing and then going back on their word .. at least twice .. so they already have 'form' in this regard.

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

People are against this change simply because a subscription is a great equalizer. Everyone can be anyone in real life, as soon as they are in game, only their skill and personality matter.
WIth a cash shop, those willing and able to pay more will have more.
Way to ruin immersion and escapism.

The concept behind the sub is also that you do not pay for access to the game but for its future development. In essence, those that have subed since launch already paid for the creation of the first DLCs. This ripp off aside, it means that most people weren't paying for what is but what should have been.
The service provided by an mo company is ongoing improvement of the game. As soon as they stop charging a subscription, they are no longer providing that service.

ESO was also very vocal pre launch about avoiding implementing a cash shop.
It was a selling point and a unique selling proposition. ESO had this advantage over other games: The guarantee that the devs sole focus is to make a game people would want to play for years.

The cash shop model changes the focus of the devs towards whatever they can sell and you can say goodbye to non marketable improvements to the game.
They even have incentives to break purposefuly the game in order to sell ways to fix it in the store.

There have been no cash shop models that haven't been p2w because it is simply impossible to not be p2w. They have to replace the subscription revenue and it's not guar ponies that will.
f2p/b2p are models that do not work well for mmorpgs, even the best of them are losing revenue fast and it is not sustainable.

Everyone loses in this change. The publishers, the devs and the players.

Dave2836

A subscription is not the definitive epitome of a utopian community, nor is it an equalizer of any sort. People of all sorts will spend money based on their wants then needs in that particular order, and the more undesirable minority (trolls and spammers) would spend their money foolishly to exploit whatever system to their own desire.

It's time to stop trying to employ sophistry in relation to the game or its community. We have no idea what kind of influx to expect, and just because we've seen a precedent before in other games does not make it a fact it will happen here.

Whatever future is to unfold for this game or its community is set by us as the predecessors, practices such as trying to reinforce positive behaviours, constructive criticism, outspoken objections to harassment and trolling, and the firm belief of pay it forward can go a long way in molding the community for generations... well more like months at a time.

Some resources to learn from:

Youtube some power lifting videos, the comments there usually contain positive reinforcement of some kind. Then Youtube some bodybuilding videos, and you will notice A LOT of negative comments. These guys use the same tools and the same methodology, and the same discipline, but the outcomes and motivations are totally different with all kinds of inverse feedback. The analogy here would be MMO = gym, playing the game = lifting the iron, the constructive criticism could be us...

theStrict9

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

The concept behind the sub is also that you do not pay for access to the game but for its future development.

That's a nice sentiment but this is ultimately untrue. Infrastructure, support, and maintenance costs eat up most of the subscriptions. If subscriptions could sustain all that and turn around a profit for future development I'm pretty sure the game would not be heading in this new direction.

MMO's are among the worst investments in game development. They cost a huge amount of money to develop and maintain, and there are only so many people willing to invest years in time and money to play them. The player base is also socially connected, which makes it harder to draw people away from well established games and communities. To be really successful in this venture, it has to be a dominant force.

I really like ESO. I think they got a lot right. Unfortunately it immediately drew comparisons to the single player experience and it was largely disregarded as a solid but derivative MMO. I thought it deserved better, but that's just my opinion.

What really surprises me is that ZOS would make all these assertions only to roll over on them time and again. That's more unsettling to me than the switch to F2P. It tells me that they don't have a very clear idea about the future of this game.

WraithAzraiel

Are you typing from a phone or trying to leave us a code?