Is anyone afraid of what will happen to this community when f2p/b2p comes?

Kupoking

Im afraid of toxic free to players you meet in games like league of legends to hop over this game and ruin it.

Tbh ive never seen such a great community than the one of todays Eso and I played everquest 1, Daoc, WoW and UO.

Morshire

So I have sat back quietly to watch how this unfolds...mainly because I haven't considered anything I have to say worth a damn at the moment. But I finally feel the need. I "thought" that this was a good community. The B2P announcement has made me think otherwise, mainly due to some threads from the current community on the subject. The new influx of players is not going to be what destroys this community. There will undoubtedly be more people, which means that all the problems we already have will be compounded by X amount of new players. The division I see is in the people here and the way they are taking all the news and changes. We have probably never been more divided on our thoughts about the future of this game. And if I was new, I could read back through posts, and the tone that is set here is frankly TOXIC. How would we expect a new person to act when confronted with this madness?
No need to worry about what the "new" players are going to do to the community, cause we will have destroyed it before they get here. Their job will be picking up the pieces and making a new community.
And don't get me wrong, I do not like the writing on the wall. And I am seeing threads about "I want to buy X"....That will destroy the game. No doubt in my mind. But it won't break the community. No that comes from how these changes are taken by said community. And I am all for "spirited" debates. I have had some good laughs. I don't know, nothing worth talking about in these general discussions is going to drive me away more than anything else. But I never thought I was important enough to matter in the grand scheme of things. Guess that is my hint to just fade into the background.

Grunim

Mercutio wrote: »

I believe that if one expects the (hopeful) influx of new players to be immature, trollish mouth breathers that is what will be found.

Likewise, if you are looking for great new players who, for whatever reason, started playing because of the change in payment model, then you may make a lot of new friends.

Separate forums? Why stop there? What if we forced everyone who is not subscribed to have a flashing, neon '-$' sign over their head? Then we could easily spot the human refuse and not have to interact with them at all!

This Subscriber > Non Subscriber mentality is, quite frankly, ridiculous and smacks of petty elitism. Does anyone truly think that they have the moral high ground because they pay fifteen bucks a month? Is that truly the measure of your worth? If so you need to find new sources of personal affirmation.

It's a game. Treat all your fellow players with respect and kindness and you'll be amazed at the results.

Hear, hear!

ESO is my first subscription MMO after playing online RPGs for 21 years. There are many wonderful people out there who for whatever reason don't choose to pay subscriptions.

Please give people a chance, and like Mercutio said, you'll be amazed at the results.

Humanistic

Der_Deutsche_Hase wrote: »

I'm a tad bit concerned with what's going to happen to this well matured community when it goes into F2P/B2P. I'm concerned because most F2P games usually get a bad reputation with the community because it becomes very toxic, very fast. And because this game is subscription based currently, this means that the adults way out weight the children in numbers currently, and obviously this won't last when it goes into f2p/b2p.

What are your guy's thoughts on this? Does anyone share my concern about this?

My first question would be, "What community?" Hardly anyone talks in guilds, or even out in the open. The only chat that goes on is in zone, and none of those people would ever group with anyone else because it would just hamper their progress. Sorry to make it real, but the community isn't very good to begin with, if you can even call it that.

Der_Deutsche_Hase

Humanistic wrote: »

My first question would be, "What community?" Hardly anyone talks in guilds, or even out in the open. The only chat that goes on is in zone, and none of those people would ever group with anyone else because it would just hamper their progress. Sorry to make it real, but the community isn't very good to begin with, if you can even call it that.

Talking is not always what makes a community.

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

Der_Deutsche_Hase wrote: »

Humanistic wrote: »

My first question would be, "What community?" Hardly anyone talks in guilds, or even out in the open. The only chat that goes on is in zone, and none of those people would ever group with anyone else because it would just hamper their progress. Sorry to make it real, but the community isn't very good to begin with, if you can even call it that.

Talking is not always what makes a community.

He has a point though, ESO doesn't really foster player interaction.
We are fairly segregated with phasing and instancing.

Der_Deutsche_Hase

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

He has a point though, ESO doesn't really foster player interaction.
We are fairly segregated with phasing and instancing.

I dunno about that. I seem to have great interaction in groups and pvp. But just like every MMO out there, most people do quests solo, and as they do training.

Castagere

I don't like post where people try to mix F2P/B2P together. They are too different things and i see this as a troll post. The OP is baiting people to argue.

Der_Deutsche_Hase

Castagere wrote: »

I don't like post where people try to mix F2P/B2P together. They are too different things and i see this as a troll post. The OP is baiting people to argue.

I feel sorely sorry for you then, if you think that.

ArconSeptim

I think few aliens might land and change the way you look on your life now!

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

Der_Deutsche_Hase wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

He has a point though, ESO doesn't really foster player interaction.
We are fairly segregated with phasing and instancing.

I dunno about that. I seem to have great interaction in groups and pvp. But just like every MMO out there, most people do quests solo, and as they do training.

True, Cyrodill is the only location where I had actual social interaction.
I PUGed my dungeons while leveling up and had nice people, but once done, at best we would do the others of that tier, or just go our separate ways.

A mega server is a wonderful technology, and as a programmer, I admire their implementation, but it does have some negative impact on gameplay.

Thankfuly, nowadays the internet is developed enough for communities to form around forums and youtubers.

Castagere wrote: »

I don't like post where people try to mix F2P/B2P together. They are too different things and i see this as a troll post. The OP is baiting people to argue.

OP is correct, f2p and b2p are two variants of the same thing: Cash shop driven revenue.

Castagere

I've played alot of mmo's F2p,B2p and sub.based. All online game communities have bad players in them. You elitist mmo's should be sub.only player's have been throwing this around for year's. And it's total crap. But if it make's you feel better then just ignore me.

Morshire

Castagere wrote: »

I've played alot of mmo's F2p,B2p and sub.based. All online game communities have bad players in them. You elitist mmo's should be sub.only player's have been throwing this around for year's. And it's total crap. But if it make's you feel better then just ignore me.

Okay

Rezzy64

I personally am a little worried about the game's overall direction now that it is going the B2P route (who isn't at this point?), but the community on the forums and in game is not one of my concerns.

I have some long term experience with MMO Cesspools, mostly games that were legitimately "F2P", "Pay to Win" games at their core. I'm not talking about being on one for a year or two, I played a really low quality F2P game for 8 years with only one to two month breaks in between the gaming periods for some variety in playing something different. I'll admit that I had an almost unhealthy obsession with that particular game and even now I sometimes miss it, but I promised myself last year to never return to it. That Pay to Win structure is all too tempting and WAY too expensive. I played three other F2P MMO's that were just as bad but never captivated me for years at a time like this one.
Alongside of playing those three MMO's (I'm not naming them off because I'm often embarrassed to talk about how obsessed I was with such low quality MMO's) I participated in their communities frequently (as I do in this one) constantly chatting with other players about the game's direction, quality, and possible future improvements, plus I did a lot of online window shopping and trade seeking on the forums for these games so in a way for me, being on the forums for these games was like playing the game but through a different medium.

As I played these F2P games and also communicated with fellow players that were a part of these F2P communities, I found that it wasn't so much the players that were playing completely free but it was in fact the frequently paying gamers that were the worst of the community.
Most games that go the F2P direction often roll towards the "Pay to Win" direction, with this direction being the focus of the game there is often a choice to be made by the game's players, either they can spend a lot of money to make a powerful character which in turn saves a lot of time, effort, and sometimes strategy, versus the players who wont spend a dime of their money on the conveniences which means they are instead forced to spend more time, effort, and strategy construction in order to build a character that is comparable or slightly better than a person who is spending all their money on their character out of convenience.
Often this turned into, the group of players who never spend any money on the game who have not only multiple very powerful characters but also have extensive knowledge on the mechanics of the game, a sense of strategy, and a proper concept of working alongside of other players because they do not have the solo advantages of an overpowered player who spends tons of money on a character to have godly stats and damage; Versus the collection of players who have everything handed over to them because they know how to spend tons of money on spoon fed advantage and convenience, however god forbid you take one of those heavy spenders into a proper boss fight and then watch them die due to not paying attention, then they often will blame someone else (often the healer) because it couldn't possibly be them, I mean after all they have the online receipt to prove their power in the game.

Honestly from my previous experience... it's the elite cash shelling players that I fear more than the players who spend nothing to play their characters. Remember, with money and cash shop based play come player convenience, and with player convenience comes laziness.
This is also in direct correlation with the forums too, it will be the same as if you were in game, there will be players with characters that are incredibly successful because they know how to spend money, and they will put down other players who don't spend money because they are "...doing it the hard way."

This Forum community is a lot better than a lot of the other gamer communities I used to be a part of, but it would be silly of me to completely ignore the fact that there is a noticeable amount of people who want to give others a terrible time because they woke up on the wrong side of the bed, or because they had a rough childhood, or (insert psychological issue here) and the current elitism here is subtle but you really don't have to look very hard to find it.
Still, I challenge anybody to find a random game forum, hang out on it for a week, and then come back and tell me that the community is spotlessly perfect, because if you don't find a collection of trolls or elitists within the first day you must be in denial.
In the end, it all comes down to your ability to tolerate people. It's not about who's paying and who isn't, or who is a troll and who isn't, or even who is elite and who isn't, hell, it's not even about how many people are on your block list versus how many people are on your friend list. It's all about whether or not you can handle the unchangeable fact that there are obnoxious people on this planet, and you can either retaliate against them and be just as obnoxious as they are in the process of doing so, or whether you can take a minor amount of annoyance in good stride, brush it off your shoulder and acknowledge and pay attention to the people that you do want to be surrounded by and enjoy playing with. If you focus too much on obnoxious people, that's all you will see while playing. If something bothers you, you're always going to notice it even when you're surrounded by all the good things.


-Sorry for the really long post, as a former F2P game player and community participant, this is something I'm used to dealing with a lot and I'm pretty passionate about my game communities as well as the interactions within them.

Der_Deutsche_Hase

Castagere wrote: »

I've played alot of mmo's F2p,B2p and sub.based. All online game communities have bad players in them. You elitist mmo's should be sub.only player's have been throwing this around for year's. And it's total crap. But if it make's you feel better then just ignore me.

Will do.

Shadesofkin

I'd be the first person to say that if the game was free to play and download it might open up to more of the riff-raff coming in, but we're talking about an internet forum, we all have our own moments of *being* said riff-raff from time to time.

Only time will tell if things get worse or stay the same.

snowmanflvb14_ESO

Nocturnalis wrote: »

Sub fees are what make the WoW and FF: ARR communities so great.

considering how WoW has the rep of one of the worst communities I would not use them as an example unless you were being sarcastic.

Grapdjan

There is always a change in community once a beta ends, I wouldn't worry.

Cogo

Der_Deutsche_Hase wrote: »

I'm a tad bit concerned with what's going to happen to this well matured community when it goes into F2P/B2P. I'm concerned because most F2P games usually get a bad reputation with the community because it becomes very toxic, very fast. And because this game is subscription based currently, this means that the adults way out weight the children in numbers currently, and obviously this won't last when it goes into f2p/b2p.

What are your guy's thoughts on this? Does anyone share my concern about this?

I'm worried ESO community will fade away and a "WoW" type community will follow. Where posts only mostly are about best builds and best gear. Maybe a VIDEO how to beat challenges. (Beating the challenge on your own is player skill...why take that way?)

Also, the group finder tool in ESO is almost not used. It doesn't need to be today. Players in ESO finds groups. This will go away as well.......
Much more impatient players will take over where doing the encounter as fast as possible and getting the right drops is the only thing that matters, (What about fun?)

I hope that the new model will be simular to subscription since you get all included. Just like today.

My worry is that LDCs will not be released fast enough to warrent the new subscription. ZoS wants people to buy DLC. That's where the money is.

The Crownstore is also a big concern. So far there is no items or services that would be bad for ESO. But every MMO who gone this way ends up with selling Max level chars. AI group members. Elite gear or things people get by playing.

Cogo

Messy1 wrote: »

We can have ESO+ only community forums?

Why not? I hate elitism. But a forum you only get access to when you are a subscriber of a service isnt uncommon.

rawne1980b16_ESO

Nocturnalis wrote: »

Sub fees are what make the WoW and FF: ARR communities so great.

Final Fantasy 14 has a lot of pretty decent folk playing it but WoW's community is terrible and has been for years.

RazielSR

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Im afraid of toxic free to players you meet in games like league of legends to hop over this game and ruin it.

Tbh ive never seen such a great community than the one of todays Eso and I played everquest 1, Daoc, WoW and UO.

I agree. The community in ESO is fantastic and thats because TES fans are amazing. TES universe is amazing since the very beginning. ESO new direction is gonna destroy this.

Durham

They are losing sub's now... Because of a horrid decisions people are not leveling alts past 50... People feel like everything they are doing now is a waste... Since they are not tracking ...also we really do not know what's going to happen with all the sets....some sets have been Nerf or changed around....

riverdragon72

Read the comments under the 2015 ESO trailer on You Tube, there is where the climate of this game is going

EölMPK

Horrible post.
Fully disagree. In fact, elitism is one of the worst trolling possible.

The fact that ESO's community is great is not the sub, but the fans of the title that use to be older and less ignorant.

WoW is an example of toxic community in a sub game.
GW2 is an example of good community in a b2p game.

Razzak

Castagere wrote: »

I've played alot of mmo's F2p,B2p and sub.based. All online game communities have bad players in them. You elitist mmo's should be sub.only player's have been throwing this around for year's. And it's total crap. But if it make's you feel better then just ignore me.

No, you haven't.

EölMPK

Razzak wrote: »

Castagere wrote: »

I've played alot of mmo's F2p,B2p and sub.based. All online game communities have bad players in them. You elitist mmo's should be sub.only player's have been throwing this around for year's. And it's total crap. But if it make's you feel better then just ignore me.

No, you haven't.

I play mmo's since UO, early 90's, and I fully agree with him.
What define good/bad community is people's education, not people's money.
There are a lot of horrible people full of money. You can see even in this thread. Or WoW.

O real good example is Marvel Heroes. The game is f2p, and have one of the greatest communities I've ever seen.

Shadesofkin

riverdragon72 wrote: »

Read the comments under the 2015 ESO trailer on You Tube, there is where the climate of this game is going

Never read comments on YouTube, that's like reading the Necronomicon.

Morshire

Grunge wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

Castagere wrote: »

I've played alot of mmo's F2p,B2p and sub.based. All online game communities have bad players in them. You elitist mmo's should be sub.only player's have been throwing this around for year's. And it's total crap. But if it make's you feel better then just ignore me.

No, you haven't.

I play mmo's since UO, early 90's, and I fully agree with him.
What define good/bad community is people's education, not people's money.
There are a lot of horrible people full of money. You can see even in this thread. Or WoW.

O real good example is Marvel Heroes. The game is f2p, and have one of the greatest communities I've ever seen.

I halfass agree with this.

AGREE: Money isn't what defines the community, it is the players. And personally, it doesn't matter what method of entry there is to the game, the players will make or break said community.

DISAGREE: People's money do influence the "mentality" of the players in the community. Some broke a** people crying for free stuff all day ruins the game. Rich creeps buying their way through a game will ruin it. And people who do not want, or do want, these things will determine the "tone" for said community.

Personally, I think you are both partially right. The community we "had" here was not the greatest in MMO history, but you cannot say we don't have any "sense" of community at all. I am not sure of what the future will hold for this community with the change in players, but I have my opinion. I don't want change. And I will leave it at that.

(And yes, I am a dinosaur who is set in his ways. I make no claims otherwise. And obviously, just as a million years ago they died, for this game, we may have died too.)

Nocturnalis

TehMagnus wrote: »

Visualize League Of Legend's Toxic community.
Then imagine the game on sale in steam for 5-10$
Then imagine the amount of kikolol toxic waste 14-16y old that will flow into the game.

ESO doesn't have enough T&A for the LoL kiddies.