A New Dual Wield - Please Read

Voltos

Update 1.6 is a great opportunity to revisit each and every skill and highlight their true potential. The proposed changes to Dual Wield in update 1.6, fall short of bringing the skill tree in line with the other melee options, especially for stamina based Sorcerers. I propose several changes to the majority of the Dual Wield abilities to make them more interesting and viable for both PVE and PVP.

That being said, here are my ideas:

Twin Slashes – An ability that has a lot of potential with the right vision. As it stands, Dual Wield lacks a melee “execute” skill, and I think Twin Slashes can fill that gap. Here’s how it will work:

- Two hit attack for X Physical Damage. Affected target bleeds for X Physical Damage over 10 seconds and receives the Minor Maim debuff.

- Activate the ability again, at no additional cost, for a follow-up attack, consuming the bleed affect and Minor Maim debuff, to do X Physical Damage instantly. Damage increased up to a maximum of 200% based on targets health loss.

Rending Slashes(Morph)
- Two hit attack for X Physical Damage. Affected target bleeds for X Physical Damage over 10 seconds and receives the Minor Maim debuff.

- Activate the ability again, at no additional cost, for a follow-up attack, consuming the bleed affect and the Minor Maim debuff, to do X Physical Damage instantly. Damage increased up to a maximum of 200% based on targets health loss. Target receives the Minor Defile debuff.

Blood Craze(Morph)
- Two hit attack for X Physical Damage. Affected target bleeds for X Physical Damage over 10 seconds and receives the Minor Maim debuff.

- Activate the ability again, at no additional cost, for a follow-up attack, consuming the bleed affect and the Minor Maim debuff, to do X Physical Damage instantly. Damage increased up to a maximum of 200% based on targets health loss. Receive healing equal to (X%) of the damage caused.


Flurry – A Dual Wield skill with the right spirit in mind, but the wrong execution. Due to the skills prolonged animation, the viability of the skill has lost its edge. This skill has been completely redesigned. Here are my ideas:

- Upon activation, you are filled with vigor. The attack speed of your next 6 Light or 3 Heavy attacks are increased by 100% for 5 seconds. Duration increases by 1 second per level.

Rapid Strikes(Morph)
- Upon activation, you are filled with vigor. The attack speed of your next 6 Light or 3 Heavy attacks are increased by 100% for 8 seconds. The two closest targets within 7 meters receive 50% splash damage.

Heavy Strikes(Morph)
- Upon activation, you are filled with vigor. The attack speed of your next 6 Light or 3 Heavy attacks are increased by 100% for 8 seconds. Your Light attacks trigger the Minor Savagery buff, and your Heavy attacks trigger the Minor Mangle debuff.


Whirlwind – Remains unchanged.


Sparks/Blade Cloak – These abilities have been replaced. The Dual Wield tree needs a gap closer, especially for those classes that don’t have one, that’s also usable from stealth. The new skill will be as follows:

- Hidden Leap – Leap behind the target dealing X Physical Damage and snaring it by 40% for 3 seconds. Duration is increased by 1 sec each level.

Quick Leap(Morph) – Leap behind the target dealing X Physical Damage and snaring it by 40% for 6 seconds. Activate the ability again, at no additional cost, to consume the targets snare and provide you with the Major Expedition buff for 6 seconds.

Staggering Leap(Morph) – Leap behind the target dealing X Physical Damage and snaring it by 40% for 8 seconds. Target is also disoriented for 4 seconds.


Hidden Blade – Remains unchanged.


Please reply with your thoughts. If you support these changes, please say so and be very vocal about it. We need to get this noticed by ZOS. Any and all support is appreciated.

Thanks.
Voltos

Oughash

These are nice suggestions. DW needs a gap closer - I always thought that they should simply swap invasion from1h/sh skill tree with the new blade cloak skill. I think adding the gap closer will in itself make DW more viable.

Voltos

Ishammael wrote: »

These are nice suggestions. DW needs a gap closer - I always thought that they should simply swap invasion from1h/sh skill tree with the new blade cloak skill. I think adding the gap closer will in itself make DW more viable.

I agree. Thank you for the positive feedback.

As a Sorcerer, I would prefer to dual wield as a personal preference, but the skill tree lacks some basic necessities that 2-Hand has, for example: a gap closer, an execute, a viable heal/buff, etc. As it stands, I feel compelled to choose 2H over DW, simply because it performs better.

These changes would make DW more interesting and viable for a number of other classes, not just Sorcerers.

Pangnirtung

Yeah, DW still needs work. Playing my DK vs my DW on the PTS is no contest still. Much easier to play the DK. I unsubscribed in August because my main a DW was so far behind the robe crowd and Zeni in it's wisdom didn't want to overpower DW Nightblades. So here I am six months later re-subscribed to see what is different. Not much in the way of balance but at least with the game going B2P it won't cost me any money to pop into the game every few weeks/months to see if DW has caught up.

Voltos

Thanks for the response.

I do feel that something needs to be changed with DW to bring it in line with the other melee options.

Voltos

Everyone's comments are greatly appreciated. So, please, post your feedback.

Thanks.
Voltos

AlnilamE

I'm curious about what class doesn't have a gap closer?

Voltos

I should have been more clear. By "gap closer," I'm referring to an ability that either directly takes you to your target, or draws them to you.

Example:
DK - Fiery Grip
NB - Teleport Strike
Temp - Focused Charge

These are all melee-oriented "gap closers," which tether you to your target when their activated. Yes, Sorcerers have Bolt Escape, but the functionality is not nearly the same. Sorcerers are forced to used Critical Charge or Shield Charge to compete with these class skills.

Voltos

This could be a topic for another discussion, but perhaps it might be a good idea to change one of the morphs of Bolt Escape to a melee-oriented "gap closer." This could bring Sorcerers in-line with the other classes.

Ball of Lightning, for example, will teleport you to your target, disorienting them, or transport you a short distance when you don't have a target.

Derra

In my opinion DW alwas was the most versatile out of all weapon choices...

Hot, ranged skill, AoE (finisher), high singletarget dps *shrug*

I liked it better than bow or 2h on my sorc.

Savitar

All they need to make DW better is lighten up a bit with that heavy handed 8% base nerf on flurry they started out with.
Blade Cloak is great and needed far more than a gimmicky closer. You want "something that brings them to you" you've got one.. though the tanks may not thank you much... Inner Fire will remotely pull stuff to you.
You are talking about wanting to do melee, but don't want a melee gap closer.. umm whaaaat?

Jitterbug

Awesome ideas.
I have dreamt of a dual wield sorcerer in PvP since forever but the 2H gap closer makes it impossible not to take it imo.

Jitterbug

Derra wrote: »

Hot
(Momentum)
ranged skill
(Charge)
AoE
(Cleave)
Finisher
(Executioner)

Not saying DW isn't cool, cause it is, but it's lacking in PvP I think.

Voltos

Jitterbug wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Hot
(Momentum)
ranged skill
(Charge)
AoE
(Cleave)
Finisher
(Executioner)

Not saying DW isn't cool, cause it is, but it's lacking in PvP I think.

Agreed. To me, it really seems DW was meant for NB's. They already have a stealth class gap closer (i.e. Teleport Strike), and they have fantastic class melee skills, so they don't need much from DW, skill wise, they just benefit from the great passives and move on.

Other classes however, Sorceres mainly, rely on their melee skill of choice to provide these basic skills, but DW just doesn't stack up to the other choices. For an assassin, there's nothing better than Teleport Strike. I don't see why DW couldn't offer something similar, along with a decent execute ability.

Voltos

I was hoping to see more support for some DW changes. Is the consensus that DW is fine in its current state for both PVE and PVP?

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO

I wouldn't be opposed to a little DW buffs, but I'm fairly content with it right now. Would maybe like to be able to pull some more DPS without needing to really glass-cannon myself w/ champion points, but it isn't bad.

Steel tornado has always been incredible for AoE, especially with a DK.

I never concerned myself too much with twin slashes because my DK could still get better DoTs from ardent flame, and now with stamina morphs that's even more true.

The reason, I think, we don't get an execute in DW is because EVERY DW skill does increased damage vs low-health targets. So we don't have a designated super execute, but we can use whatever we'd like to get that killing blow.

I was upset at the loss of sparks, but Blade Cloak has been a lot of fun so far. I'm concerned about quick cloak getting a lot of usage though. The movement speed is fun, but once I switched to deadly cloak I haven't felt like going back to quick cloak at all--that extra throwing dagger is great to have.

Flurry could probably do a little more damage, but today they made it uninterruptible, so that's a really great change, especially for PvP.

Gap closer, I suppose, is the only real issue, but I'm not to worried about it because I think there are plenty of ways to get to targets faster. For example, a combo of hidden blade and quick cloak snares the enemy and makes you faster. I think the ranged DW abilities are the reason they don't get a dedicated gap closer.

Then there are all class gap closers: bolt escape, lightning form, teleport strike, chains, focused charge (or whatever the templar charge is called). Even petrify can work as a gap closer--ranged root, then rush in. Yeah, it's CC breakable, but you could work a rotation (like plenty have so far) to petrify, shatter it, petrify, shatter, etc. until you're in melee range.

Tl;dr: if anything changed in DW, I'd think it would simply be minor tweaks to existing skills, such as damage buffs, utility buffs, or other secondary/tertiary benefits. I'm fairly content with DW on my DK.

Xsorus

Dual Wields Twin Slashes (and now Venom Arrow) needs to have its bloody bleed work like every other Dot in this game, and go through block and be reduced by damage like those abilities

Shlankwald

I am somewhat content with dual wield. I really wish theyd make the default attack animation much faster with lower damage so it has the feeling of dual wielding.
It seems like they tried other ways to make it unique....such as a snare over a gap closer, and a passive that increases damage at low health rather than a straight execute. This would work pretty well if the damage was higher to make up for the lack of utility 2-handers provide.

I like your ideas, especially the second casting at no cost, it would give it a unique feel. I do wanna say I think if you want to give them a port that also snares, you should take away the snare on hidden blade, thats just too much especially with a gap closer.

I'd like to see some sort of dodge mechanic similar to bolt escape in this rather than an actual port on the enemies, as it would make dual wielding feel more "agile"; its kind of wierd to me 2-handers have more movement based abilities and I've always associated dual wielding with acrobatic type play. One suggestion is simply increase movement speed while casting certain abilities such as whirlwind.

I don't see many silences in the game, it would be nice for dual wielders to be the ones to be anti-mages (but that may be biased as dual wielding was mage slayers on most MMOs due to interruptable casting meters). it would also sync well with the ruffian passive.

Dinkveazy

Shlankwald wrote: »

I am somewhat content with dual wield. I really wish theyd make the default attack animation much faster with lower damage so it has the feeling of dual wielding.
It seems like they tried other ways to make it unique....such as a snare over a gap closer, and a passive that increases damage at low health rather than a straight execute. This would work pretty well if the damage was higher to make up for the lack of utility 2-handers provide.

I like your ideas, especially the second casting at no cost, it would give it a unique feel. I do wanna say I think if you want to give them a port that also snares, you should take away the snare on hidden blade, thats just too much especially with a gap closer.

I'd like to see some sort of dodge mechanic similar to bolt escape in this rather than an actual port on the enemies, as it would make dual wielding feel more "agile"; its kind of wierd to me 2-handers have more movement based abilities and I've always associated dual wielding with acrobatic type play. One suggestion is simply increase movement speed while casting certain abilities such as whirlwind.

I don't see many silences in the game, it would be nice for dual wielders to be the ones to be anti-mages (but that may be biased as dual wielding was mage slayers on most MMOs due to interruptable casting meters). it would also sync well with the ruffian passive.

Yea dual wielding seems to be all over the place, and not really good at any one thing. Its not that their bad, they are just outclassed everywhere by 2-h it seems