no race change :(

Argurios

Reremnu wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌

Will you finally care to comment about racial passives imbalance and care to fix it? Most of us do not want to change our character's race because we do not like it, we want to change race because some races are clearly inferior to others (Not to mention that since release you've been changing racial passives).Update 1.6 is the perfect time for changes to racial passives to happen but why are you ignoring this problem?

Because its not a problem, only some perceive it as one.

Erock25

I can not understand the people coming in here saying, 'No, I don't care what you want! I would be personally offended if you changed your race so much that I'm going through the effort of posting my feelings against it.' Basically, I will continue with this game if I can change my race, and I will stop playing if I can not. Are you going to stop playing because other people have the opportunity to change their race?

With the changes in 1.6, Critical Surge is now useless to my Khajit Sorc in a stamina build. Why use Crit Surge when I have Rally? I was given no other stamina tools that are worth using and therefore must roll with magicka. That 6% weapon crit is useless to me. The sneak detection range and bonus dmg is useless to me. HP regen is just about useless to me. I have a very busy life and will not level up alliance ranks, cadwell's gold, chase achievement on any other character.

Garwulf

Whilst I can agree that Class change should be allowed on a limited basis due to ZOS changes, I do not agree with Race changes.

I chose the Race not on Stats but on who I wanted to play. So all my characters are Imperial whether they like it or not (we do not chose our race in the real world) , I have a character in each of the classes. DK, Sorc, NB, Templar but really only play one most of the time. Not because of the Class but because I have chosen to collect achievements and I am not going to do that 4 times. So my Sorc whilst VR14 is a total Crafter at the moment and cannot kill a fly.

Hence my reason for allowing class change .
Sometimes we have amid life crisis and want to try something new even though we cannot get a race change.

darthbelanb14_ESO

Absolutely not!!! Race change would be P2W!

Kragorn

Garwulf wrote: »

I chose the Race not on Stats but on who I wanted to play. So all my characters are Imperial whether they like it or not (we do not chose our race in the real world) , I have a character in each of the classes. DK, Sorc, NB, Templar but really only play one most of the time. Not because of the Class but because I have chosen to collect achievements and I am not going to do that 4 times. So my Sorc whilst VR14 is a total Crafter at the moment and cannot kill a fly.

Hence my reason for allowing class change .
Sometimes we have amid life crisis and want to try something new even though we cannot get a race change.

But .. but .. min/maxers only care about teh big numberz, any sense of 'reality' or a minor kind of RPing (as I think you're doing here really, which is fine) is alien to them.

Vandril

Kragorn wrote: »

Garwulf wrote: »

I chose the Race not on Stats but on who I wanted to play. So all my characters are Imperial whether they like it or not (we do not chose our race in the real world) , I have a character in each of the classes. DK, Sorc, NB, Templar but really only play one most of the time. Not because of the Class but because I have chosen to collect achievements and I am not going to do that 4 times. So my Sorc whilst VR14 is a total Crafter at the moment and cannot kill a fly.

Hence my reason for allowing class change .
Sometimes we have amid life crisis and want to try something new even though we cannot get a race change.

But .. but .. min/maxers only care about teh big numberz, any sense of 'reality' or a minor kind of RPing (as I think you're doing here really, which is fine) is alien to them.

/ignoressarcasminquote

Exactly! God forbid people want to have fun with a game instead of forcing other people's arbitrary RP/Immersion-related restrictions upon themselves when it doesn't even remotely effect these other people.

Thank you for understanding the plight of the players who care about min-maxing.

They need to either remove racial bonuses or allow race changes, because the only way they can balance racial bonuses is by making them all exactly the same, which will never happen.

The argument that they don't matter because it's all about skill is a non-argument. An advantage is an advantage, and racial bonuses are an advantage because, should two otherwise exactly similar characters who play exactly the same face off, the one with better racial bonuses for their build would win more often than half the time.

With a limit on possible skill (there is a limit, since the game is a system) and a limit on available stat sources (available gear, enchants, etc), this makes many racials very advantageous over others. As you approach skill cap, stat numbers become more important in determining outcome. REAL min-maxing is never only about the numbers, but also the functionality, and involves min-maxing both player efficiency/skill and stats/other numbers.

Anyway, I kind of went on a multifaceted rant, but my point is...

TL;DR - Races are imbalanced. Fix them or allow race changes. It is a balance issue. Saying otherwise is silly because it's a fact, not an opinion.

Argurios

Vandril wrote: »

TL;DR - Races are imbalanced. Fix them or allow race changes. It is a balance issue. Saying otherwise is silly because it's a fact, not an opinion.

What you say is a fact, i say is deluded visions of grandeur, that you actually most likely think that your min/maxing is important to a lot of people, or in fact the developers. It isn't, real min/maxers, that care about somethnig as minor as the racials, are few and far between. If you want to min/max every little detail and it bugs you that you picked a race you now aren't happy with, boo hoo. Unlucky. Not everyone that plays the game should have their game changed for a few no life min/maxers.

AngryNord

Thank goodness. FoTM and elitism is bad enough in this game as it is.

Erock25

Argurios wrote: »

Vandril wrote: »

TL;DR - Races are imbalanced. Fix them or allow race changes. It is a balance issue. Saying otherwise is silly because it's a fact, not an opinion.

What you say is a fact, i say is deluded visions of grandeur, that you actually most likely think that your min/maxing is important to a lot of people, or in fact the developers. It isn't, real min/maxers, that care about somethnig as minor as the racials, are few and far between. If you want to min/max every little detail and it bugs you that you picked a race you now aren't happy with, boo hoo. Unlucky. Not everyone that plays the game should have their game changed for a few no life min/maxers.

How would your game change at all though? Clearly it appears you are not a min/max player and therefore you would keep your race and pay nothing and no change for you. Sounds pretty good huh? Also, if you think racials are minor, consider that you gain more attribute points as a imperial compared to say a khajit as you would going from vr1 green gear with green enchants to vr14 all legendary. Not so minor is it?

Panda244

Any time they change a skill they give us a free respec for that skill, should work the same way for when they change racial passives. It's only fair, if you play X race because Y passive, and they change Y passive, then what's the point of playing X race when Y passive isn't what you want.

Really it only applies to Orcs and Bosmer at this point, maybe Dunmer, because of the nerf to their fire resist. But then people will whine and whine, "Oh but I want a race change to!" So meh.

Let 1.6 go on for about a month I'd say, then a one time use race change in the crown store for 1k or 1.5k crowns. Problem solved.

Vandril

Argurios wrote: »

Vandril wrote: »

TL;DR - Races are imbalanced. Fix them or allow race changes. It is a balance issue. Saying otherwise is silly because it's a fact, not an opinion.

What you say is a fact, i say is deluded visions of grandeur, that you actually most likely think that your min/maxing is important to a lot of people, or in fact the developers. It isn't, real min/maxers, that care about somethnig as minor as the racials, are few and far between. If you want to min/max every little detail and it bugs you that you picked a race you now aren't happy with, boo hoo. Unlucky. Not everyone that plays the game should have their game changed for a few no life min/maxers.

@Argurios - You can call it whatever you want. But a fact is a fact. It is what it is and isn't what it isn't. Facts can be scientifically and categorically proven or disproven, therefore minimizing the impact of opinions on the reality of the fact.

What I stated is a fact. Racials are an advantage. Period.

There is no arguing that. It's a fact. No one's opinion can change it, because it's factual in nature.

However, the implications of facts can depend on perspective.How we should react to facts is subjective. That's where the opinions come into play.

I believe race changes should be available. You do not. This difference of opinion is still based on the same facts. We just happen to believe different actions are the right ones to take, based on the facts.

So, please don't attempt to undermine my statement of the facts by trying to insist that an orange is an apple.

Erock25 wrote: »

Argurios wrote: »

Vandril wrote: »

TL;DR - Races are imbalanced. Fix them or allow race changes. It is a balance issue. Saying otherwise is silly because it's a fact, not an opinion.

What you say is a fact, i say is deluded visions of grandeur, that you actually most likely think that your min/maxing is important to a lot of people, or in fact the developers. It isn't, real min/maxers, that care about somethnig as minor as the racials, are few and far between. If you want to min/max every little detail and it bugs you that you picked a race you now aren't happy with, boo hoo. Unlucky. Not everyone that plays the game should have their game changed for a few no life min/maxers.

How would your game change at all though? Clearly it appears you are not a min/max player and therefore you would keep your race and pay nothing and no change for you. Sounds pretty good huh? Also, if you think racials are minor, consider that you gain more attribute points as a imperial compared to say a khajit as you would going from vr1 green gear with green enchants to vr14 all legendary. Not so minor is it?

@Erock25 - Exactly. Race changes being added to the game would have no effect on RPers whatsoever. They can stay the same race they always were. It's optional, and doesn't effect their gameplay at all aside from the racials they find so unimportant. And if they ever realize the impact racials do make and decide it's important enough to change races, they'll then have that option. All the while, those who already want to change races can do so.

I see a bunch of pros, but very few cons...which brings me to my next point.

AngryNord wrote: »

Thank goodness. FoTM and elitism is bad enough in this game as it is.

These are cons.

But FoTM is actually a double edged dagger. Yes, it's annoying when there even is a FoTM, however, the existence of FoTM classes/races/whatever actually increases the speed of game balance changes. If everyone's playing one thing, it makes it obvious to the developers and everyone else that something is really, really advantageous of that one thing. Where as, otherwise, it might take them 2-3x as long to realize this one thing is overly advantageous if there wasn't that huge number of people playing it. In the widest scope, it's a choice between the FoTM or the select few who already play what has become truly overpowered and slower balancing changes.

Elitism is stupid to begin with. It's a problem in every way. However, unfortunately, elitism is a community issue, not a gameplay one. I hesitate to say that a game should base its mechanical limitations around what is a community issue. I have no good solution for it, but I don't think designing the game around it is the way to go.

@Panda244 - Agreed on both the changes and the race change token via crown store ideas.