Bring back SWEETROLLS!

baratron

Honestly, ZoS! Why in Oblivion have you introduced the Justice System in the same patch where you removed sweetrolls? How are we supposed to steal someone's sweetroll if there aren't any sweetrolls in the game?!

daolar

R.I.P sweetrolls:( oh, and we want our sweetrolls back!

Darkonflare15

Yeah, I want a guard to reply to me if I steal some ones sweet rolls. It would be a great conversation.

frogprincess_q4

I really want a sweetroll on my guild tabard too

Joy_Division

More unnecessary changes. Please devote your time to fixing bugs and correctly imbalances than removing iconic stuff that many people like.

Thank you.

SantieClaws

This one would like the sweetrolls and the moon sugar back please. You don't want to see this one in the middle of a sugar crash....

ZOS_Bel_Shezzar

Sweetrolls aren't removed. They're just different now.

There are recipes that suggest moon sugar as an ingredient. However, for universality's sake we elected to have it be one of the many "invisible" ingredients as far as Provisioning is concerned - like salt, pepper, or yeast in the updated paradigm.

Goldie

Bel_Shezzar wrote: »

Sweetrolls aren't removed. They're just different now.

There are recipes that suggest moon sugar as an ingredient. However, for universality's sake we elected to have it be one of the many "invisible" ingredients as far as Provisioning is concerned - like salt, pepper, or yeast in the updated paradigm.

What do you mean "Different now"? Are there sweetrolls in the game or aren't there? Can we get a straight answer, ever???

newtinmpls

"Invisible Ingredients" just sounds silly... And as for sweet rolls, they are there or not. What is this 'difference' of which you speak?

Mix

i just picked up a v10 sweetroll recipe (blue), mag/stam, from the prov writ at 6/6 prov skill points

Rosveen

Bel_Shezzar wrote: »

Sweetrolls aren't removed. They're just different now.

There are recipes that suggest moon sugar as an ingredient. However, for universality's sake we elected to have it be one of the many "invisible" ingredients as far as Provisioning is concerned - like salt, pepper, or yeast in the updated paradigm.

This is a horrible answer. "Different" is so vague it's useless. Next thing you'll tell us is "spears are in the game, they're just an invisible weapon!"

I understand that moon sugar doesn't fit into the new streamlined system, but I'm still going to miss it.

Mix wrote: »

i just picked up a v10 sweetroll recipe (blue), mag/stam, from the prov writ at 6/6 prov skill points

This makes me very happy. ZOS, couldn't you have called it Moon Sugar-Sprinkled Sweetroll?

c0rp

Bel_Shezzar wrote: »

Sweetrolls aren't removed. They're just different now.

There are recipes that suggest moon sugar as an ingredient. However, for universality's sake we elected to have it be one of the many "invisible" ingredients as far as Provisioning is concerned - like salt, pepper, or yeast in the updated paradigm.

Soooo...is there or isn't there sweetrolls?

/confused

Gyudan

Bel_Shezzar wrote: »

Sweetrolls aren't removed. They're just different now.

There are recipes that suggest moon sugar as an ingredient. However, for universality's sake we elected to have it be one of the many "invisible" ingredients as far as Provisioning is concerned - like salt, pepper, or yeast in the updated paradigm.

Thanks for the answer. Have a taco!

glak

Bel_Shezzar wrote: »

Sweetrolls aren't removed. They're just different now.

There are recipes that suggest moon sugar as an ingredient. However, for universality's sake we elected to have it be one of the many "invisible" ingredients as far as Provisioning is concerned - like salt, pepper, or yeast in the updated paradigm.

But moon sugar is poisonous to humans in a large amount. Think of all the dying Nords when they find out the hard way!

Rosveen

glak wrote: »

Bel_Shezzar wrote: »

Sweetrolls aren't removed. They're just different now.

There are recipes that suggest moon sugar as an ingredient. However, for universality's sake we elected to have it be one of the many "invisible" ingredients as far as Provisioning is concerned - like salt, pepper, or yeast in the updated paradigm.

But moon sugar is poisonous to humans in a large amount. Think of all the dying Nords when they find out the hard way!

It's a great way to die.

FooWasHere

Mix wrote: »

i just picked up a v10 sweetroll recipe (blue), mag/stam, from the prov writ at 6/6 prov skill points

Ohh, does that mean they have added blue VR10's as well? Because there doesn't seem to be any that converts like the purples do.

Maybe @Bel_Shezzar‌ can enlighten us?

baratron

Mix wrote: »

i just picked up a v10 sweetroll recipe (blue), mag/stam, from the prov writ at 6/6 prov skill points

Oooh... can you share a screenshot of the item?

I am so happy that there are still sweetrolls. But Magicka/Stamina is the one combination I never use! *sob*

HeroOfEvbof

it does not surprise me that we need to hunt high and low for the vr10 blues. Trust me - I will slaughter every bandit and cultist in The Rift over and over until I get them all. (My vet toon is covenant so The Rift and Craglorn are my choices for vet10 recipes)
It should be noted that I have six mules all with rank 48 provisioning or higher. Any two of them could easily become 6/6 writ runners - and probably will.
For some of us hardcore recipe farmers, we were gifted with three vet10 purple food recipes. I am not sure why. Six (maybe 7) level 35 purples moved up in level upon conversion and in doing so gave room to push a vr1 and two vr5 recipes up to vr10. It also resulted in a couple of levels having four purple recipes post conversion.
It is highly regrettable that I still dont have Consummate Breton Stew on live. I dont have a level 30 toon to try farming desks and I have had no luck whatsoever getting it from a prov writ - even though I was running four RI 3/9 writs per day for a long time and am now running six per day.

HeroOfEvbof

BTW: Don't be surprised that there are now tons and tons of new recipes for us to seek out.
During conversion, I pretty much ended up with three meat, three fruit and three vegatable recipes (green) per level break. However I already found new ones on PTS at those same levels. I would love it if each level break had six meat recipes and six fruit and so on. I would go totally nuts if each category at each level 20 and up had 36 recipes (for example each meat each with a different additive). Somehow I doubt that is the case, but wouldnt that be sweet.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Bel_Shezzar wrote: »

Sweetrolls aren't removed. They're just different now.

There are recipes that suggest moon sugar as an ingredient. However, for universality's sake we elected to have it be one of the many "invisible" ingredients as far as Provisioning is concerned - like salt, pepper, or yeast in the updated paradigm.

Ok. I was gonna wait and post a pro/con feed back later, but I have to get this off my chest first.
On a positive note, I cut my inventory in half with your new provisioning changes and the new categorizing of recipes is much better. Making drinks more effective is long over due and great. After that, new provisioning changes with the recipe names and ingredients are completely Lore and Immersion breaking to the point of being FUBAR.
A few case in points:
Melon-Chevre Salad? Oyster-Tomato Orzo? Riverhold Beef Tacos?
TACOS!!!!.. These recipes don't belong in ANY fantasy realm!!
You have Cliff Racer Ragout, but there are no Cliff Racers!! And it's made from poultry not Racer Plums! Would you go to a restaurant and order Ostrich and be happy when you got turkey?
I went back and looked at the available ingredients in Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim. There is such a massive amount of lore friendly stuff and still you replaced Moon Sugar with beets!!! (At least Fish Sticks are made from fish now and not crab!!!! LOL)
I am a professional chef in real life. To come home after 10 hrs in a kitchen, relax with my dark elf rouge-mage, who has a back story going back to "The Battle of Red Mountain", and have him make the same thing I made all day in real world? (Except Tacos. I'm a fine dinning chef and even I don't do TACOS!!!
Not in Tamriel, Krynn, 7 Kingdoms or Dorn, Midkemia, Pern, Shannara or Middle Earth should or would these recipes be found.
Ingredients are now mundane and boring. No Kwama eggs, scrib jelly, moon sugar,etc.
It just saddens me that I can do fantasy food in the real world,(i.e. A Fire and Ice Wine Dinner, Bilbo's Birthday Feast w/ Food from Middle Earth), better than you are in our fantasy world.
You have done an amazing job with this game and I love it so much. 1.6 is going to be amazing!! But I feel you dropped the ball badly on this though. Was Lord Lawrence the Loremaster on vacation? lol... Thank you for allowing me this feed back and I leave you with these words of wisdom..

"M'aiq wishes he had a stick made out of fishies to give you, sadly, he does not......"

Mix

Ok, first there have been many new recipes added: 135 we think, @Sneak_Thief‌ has done a lot of work deducing the new item ids from the few recipes I have found on the pts that are new.

here is the forum thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/149504/1-6-master-provisioning-recipe-conversion-list-351-135-new-recipes-full-ingredient-list/p3

and here is the link to his google spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/a/ualberta.ca/spreadsheets/d/1id92dghezDm5XpXxoMyAzbm2eE3TaNhj5M17OuhJBKE/pubhtml



And for the moon-sugar addicts out there:p



I haven't tried farming mobs for recipes yet, but I found the upstairs in the Dragonstar inn to be a decent place to farm v10 recipes only. I am EP and the inn in Rawl'kha is great but you get both v5 and v10 recipes there. (and the inn in Belkarth has very few containers so it sucks:p)

AlnilamE

Rosveen wrote: »

Bel_Shezzar wrote: »

Sweetrolls aren't removed. They're just different now.

There are recipes that suggest moon sugar as an ingredient. However, for universality's sake we elected to have it be one of the many "invisible" ingredients as far as Provisioning is concerned - like salt, pepper, or yeast in the updated paradigm.

This is a horrible answer. "Different" is so vague it's useless. Next thing you'll tell us is "spears are in the game, they're just an invisible weapon!"

I understand that moon sugar doesn't fit into the new streamlined system, but I'm still going to miss it.

Mix wrote: »

i just picked up a v10 sweetroll recipe (blue), mag/stam, from the prov writ at 6/6 prov skill points

This makes me very happy. ZOS, couldn't you have called it Moon Sugar-Sprinkled Sweetroll?

Different = No longer the green/blue/purple V5 recipe it used to be.

Mix

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

(snip)
Melon-Chevre Salad? Oyster-Tomato Orzo? Riverhold Beef Tacos?
TACOS!!!!.. These recipes don't belong in ANY fantasy realm!!
You have Cliff Racer Ragout, but there are no Cliff Racers!! And it's made from poultry not Racer Plums! Would you go to a restaurant and order Ostrich and be happy when you got turkey?
I went back and looked at the available ingredients in Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim. There is such a massive amount of lore friendly stuff and still you replaced Moon Sugar with beets!!! (At least Fish Sticks are made from fish now and not crab!!!! LOL)
(snip)

@wenchmore420b14_ESO‌

I also went back and looked at all those ingredients and I even started a "proposal" list where beets could be turned into Ash Yams, and millet into moon sugar, then taking all the questionable names (at least imo, but I am a chemistry student, not a chef! If i had to look up an ingredients/name I kinda figure it shouldn't be in the game), and renaming them as more lore friendly.

I was also bothered by the meat sources not all being referenced. For instance, small game comes from snakes, rabbits and foxes but recipes only name rabbit (hare etc). This also includes fish, we shouldn't have "Salted Cod" when Cod isn't one of the skinnable fish. Could easily be renamed as Seared Slaughterfish.

Now you make me wonder if I should pick it back up, I figured it might be too complicated to change and not high priority.

There is no reason Melon-Chevre salad couldn't simply be Melon and Goat Cheese salad, plenty of goats in Tamriel.

A couple examples with beets = ash yams and millet = moon sugar.

Rabbit Millet Pilaf would now use small game and moon sugar: Sugared Fox Bites.

Borsht would now use ash yams and could be named Baked Ash Yam.

Roasted Beet and Millet Salad would use ash yams and moon sugar: Candied Ash Yams?

Technically Bananas were not in any previous ES game but I don't find their existence far fetched.

I never got very far into thinking about the Drinks. Sake and Qishr I don't think fit that well into Tamriel. There is also Chai and Coffee. Of the ingredients I though many could use re-naming for drinks: Jasmine, mint, rose, coffee, yerba mate, acai berry, guarana, metheglin, isinglass, ginger because there are a lot of things to choose from. I figure coffee should be canis root (Neloth and his canis root tea!). Acai berry and guarana could easily become one of the berries already in Tamriel, such as snowberry, strawberry, blackberry, juniper berrry. Jasmine, mint, rose, yerba mate could come from something in the alchemy ingredient lists that sounds like it could be used as a flavouring. Most of the drink names wouldn't need to altered a lot or could be changed to funny ones like the Wamasu Spew and Horker's Breath:p

Recremen

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Ok. I was gonna wait and post a pro/con feed back later, but I have to get this off my chest first.
On a positive note, I cut my inventory in half with your new provisioning changes and the new categorizing of recipes is much better. Making drinks more effective is long over due and great. After that, new provisioning changes with the recipe names and ingredients are completely Lore and Immersion breaking to the point of being FUBAR.
A few case in points:
Melon-Chevre Salad? Oyster-Tomato Orzo? Riverhold Beef Tacos?
TACOS!!!!.. These recipes don't belong in ANY fantasy realm!!
You have Cliff Racer Ragout, but there are no Cliff Racers!! And it's made from poultry not Racer Plums! Would you go to a restaurant and order Ostrich and be happy when you got turkey?
I went back and looked at the available ingredients in Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim. There is such a massive amount of lore friendly stuff and still you replaced Moon Sugar with beets!!! (At least Fish Sticks are made from fish now and not crab!!!! LOL)
I am a professional chef in real life. To come home after 10 hrs in a kitchen, relax with my dark elf rouge-mage, who has a back story going back to "The Battle of Red Mountain", and have him make the same thing I made all day in real world? (Except Tacos. I'm a fine dinning chef and even I don't do TACOS!!!
Not in Tamriel, Krynn, 7 Kingdoms or Dorn, Midkemia, Pern, Shannara or Middle Earth should or would these recipes be found.
Ingredients are now mundane and boring. No Kwama eggs, scrib jelly, moon sugar,etc.
It just saddens me that I can do fantasy food in the real world,(i.e. A Fire and Ice Wine Dinner, Bilbo's Birthday Feast w/ Food from Middle Earth), better than you are in our fantasy world.
You have done an amazing job with this game and I love it so much. 1.6 is going to be amazing!! But I feel you dropped the ball badly on this though. Was Lord Lawrence the Loremaster on vacation? lol... Thank you for allowing me this feed back and I leave you with these words of wisdom..

"M'aiq wishes he had a stick made out of fishies to give you, sadly, he does not......"

There is still plenty of "fantasy" food in the new recipes! Here's a list of the conversions that someone created.

I don't really know where you're drawing the line for lore-approved food versus "lore and immersion breaking" food. I mean, food literally couldn't be lore breaking unless one of the recipes says something like "Ash Yams Are Fake Soufle". I especially don't know what your complaint about Racer Ragout is. "Poultry" is a generic term for bird meat, and racers are (sort of) birds. You couldn't make a meat dish out of Racer Plumes because a "plume" is a feather! Not a lot of meat on feathers, eh?? Immersion-breaking food is another story, of course, and I can kind of see what you mean with some of the recipes.

For example, certain words like "taco" or "fries" are so a part of modern "exotic" consumer culture that it makes it seem out of place in a fantasy world, even though nobody will complain about words like "soup" or "salad". I saw somebody else have the same issue with "curry" the other day, but not blink an eye at the inclusion of beef or lemons. I think this is more an issue of European customs and foods being "default/acceptable fantasy" than anything else.

Recremen

Mix wrote: »

I also went back and looked at all those ingredients and I even started a "proposal" list where beets could be turned into Ash Yams, and millet into moon sugar, then taking all the questionable names (at least imo, but I am a chemistry student, not a chef! If i had to look up an ingredients/name I kinda figure it shouldn't be in the game), and renaming them as more lore friendly.

I was also bothered by the meat sources not all being referenced. For instance, small game comes from snakes, rabbits and foxes but recipes only name rabbit (hare etc). This also includes fish, we shouldn't have "Salted Cod" when Cod isn't one of the skinnable fish. Could easily be renamed as Seared Slaughterfish.

Now you make me wonder if I should pick it back up, I figured it might be too complicated to change and not high priority.

There is no reason Melon-Chevre salad couldn't simply be Melon and Goat Cheese salad, plenty of goats in Tamriel.

A couple examples with beets = ash yams and millet = moon sugar.

Rabbit Millet Pilaf would now use small game and moon sugar: Sugared Fox Bites.

Borsht would now use ash yams and could be named Baked Ash Yam.

Roasted Beet and Millet Salad would use ash yams and moon sugar: Candied Ash Yams?

Technically Bananas were not in any previous ES game but I don't find their existence far fetched.

I never got very far into thinking about the Drinks. Sake and Qishr I don't think fit that well into Tamriel. There is also Chai and Coffee. Of the ingredients I though many could use re-naming for drinks: Jasmine, mint, rose, coffee, yerba mate, acai berry, guarana, metheglin, isinglass, ginger because there are a lot of things to choose from. I figure coffee should be canis root (Neloth and his canis root tea!). Acai berry and guarana could easily become one of the berries already in Tamriel, such as snowberry, strawberry, blackberry, juniper berrry. Jasmine, mint, rose, yerba mate could come from something in the alchemy ingredient lists that sounds like it could be used as a flavouring. Most of the drink names wouldn't need to altered a lot or could be changed to funny ones like the Wamasu Spew and Horker's Breath:p

Certainly a lot of interesting ideas, but I think you're confused on a few points! Ash yams are more like a potato than a beet, for one thing, though this distinction is hard for those uninitiated in the culinary craft. A beet is far closer to a carrot or radish, but both of those are already ingredients. Ash yams, if I recall correctly, are also considered fairly repulsive by all but the Dunmer, much like most of their food.

Further, ash yams are already included in a recipe, specifically Vvardenfell Ash Yam Loaf. And it requires a "potato", which in this case is just a generic term for "tuber"! Really, the whole switch to generics/placeholders is much better than having 10000 ingredients in the database. Now we can have "red meat" and "poultry" by anything from "ox" to "minotaur" and "cliff racer" to "duck".

Also, millet is a grain, not really something you would easily replace with Moon Sugar. ;-) Plus it would be very strange for so many non-Khajiit to be eating it! Who wants a whole world full of hallucinating warriors and wizards? The world is already an illusion, no need to take it to the next level. 0=)

Mix

I didn't choose beets because they were like an Ash Yam, I chose them because they aren't previously present in the ES universe. Similar idea with the millet. Mostly tried to get moon sugar in there because there were so many posts about it being gone. I think moon sugar, based on the recipes, is safely grouped with "seasoning". If you were to change up the ingredients in food, I would ditch the beets for sure. As for Ash Yams, I rather think if the Dunmer had something else to eat they would. I got the impression in Dragonborn that they were pretty bored of eating ash yam all the time, maybe they are just incredibly bland:p

I doubt ZOS will do anything drastic with the new prov naming/ingredient names. I also like the consolidation of ingredients. Would be nice to have more small game (other than rabbit) named recipes, as well as game and fish. There are many sources of both in-game.

It was more a "if" I could make the food more lore-friendly what would I change. After looking over my musings I had decided not to post any officially as suggestions until I saw the comment on here and decided to post a bit of it:p

I agree with the moon sugar thing though, for most of Tamriel it isn't just a sweet treat and even Khajiit cannot have it in excess (see the Malabal Tor quest lol)

ZOS_Bel_Shezzar

Well, yes, there are sweetrolls.

Mix wrote: »

i just picked up a v10 sweetroll recipe (blue), mag/stam, from the prov writ at 6/6 prov skill points

There are still sweetrolls in the game. They are different now, in that we no longer categorize buffs by bread versus soup versus stew, and instead had to consider them by their ingredients. There is no meat in a sweetroll, but we wanted them to be a potent food item at high levels of play, and there you are.

Sorry for the confusion! I definitely could have worded that more clearly.

baratron

Bel_Shezzar wrote: »

There are still sweetrolls in the game. They are different now, in that we no longer categorize buffs by bread versus soup versus stew, and instead had to consider them by their ingredients. There is no meat in a sweetroll, but we wanted them to be a potent food item at high levels of play, and there you are.

Sorry for the confusion! I definitely could have worded that more clearly.

Yeah, you definitely could have . Long week in the office?

AlnilamE

Bel_Shezzar wrote: »

Well, yes, there are sweetrolls.

Mix wrote: »

i just picked up a v10 sweetroll recipe (blue), mag/stam, from the prov writ at 6/6 prov skill points

There are still sweetrolls in the game. They are different now, in that we no longer categorize buffs by bread versus soup versus stew, and instead had to consider them by their ingredients. There is no meat in a sweetroll, but we wanted them to be a potent food item at high levels of play, and there you are.

Sorry for the confusion! I definitely could have worded that more clearly.

Yeah, but that would have been a lot less fun! :-P