Zenimax, you should just have removed Crit from gear

Grao

... and give us something to replace that loss.

Now, this maybe an unpopular thought, but I think completely removing critical chance (both weapon and spell) would be better then the insulting values currently displayed on the PTS.

The Wise Mage set and the Nightmother's set are likely the most brutal examples. Wise Mage grants 8% spell crit on live, yet on PTS the tool tip now says it grants 4% crit and when equipped, the armor set only gives 3% crit. Nightmother's too, on live 8% weapon crit and 4% spell crit, on the PTS, 3% weapon crit and 1.5% spell crit. Those numbers are ridiculous.

I understand why it was done, Zenimax wants crit to be based around champion points + weapons and that is fine, but if that is the case, just remove crit from armor all together and give us something useful to replace it. Keep crit bonus sets for weapon and jewelry.

I think my best idea as to what replace crit with is buff enhancers. I think it would be great to have armor sets that alter, or strengthen certain Major and Minor buffs affecting your character. Like "2 Pieces of Wise Mage increase the effect of Major X by Y%". That would be a nice set bonus, tied to our ability to maintain that buff up 100% of the time.

The same could be done for the potions Zenimax so heavily nerfed. We already have spells that grant us the Crit and Weapon/Spell Power major buffs, keeping those up are a huge part of our rotations, so instead of having the potions grant the same buffs that don't stack, why not make the potions strength that buff on us for the duration? That would be great and would make so potions were part of our rotation, not something we take just for resources. As it is on 1.6 the only trully good potion, at least for spell casters, is the Tri-pot.

Fruity_Ninja

Grao wrote: »

The Wise Mage set and the Nightmother's set are likely the most brutal examples. Wise Mage grants 8% spell crit on live, yet on PTS the tool tip now says it grants 4% crit and when equipped, the armor set only gives 3% crit. Nightmother's too, on live 8% weapon crit and 4% spell crit, on the PTS, 3% weapon crit and 1.5% spell crit. Those numbers are ridiculous.

Try Wrath of the Imperium. +10% moves to +1% (green rings, purple staff)

Was a big part of my Sorc build

Grao

Fruity_Ninja wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

The Wise Mage set and the Nightmother's set are likely the most brutal examples. Wise Mage grants 8% spell crit on live, yet on PTS the tool tip now says it grants 4% crit and when equipped, the armor set only gives 3% crit. Nightmother's too, on live 8% weapon crit and 4% spell crit, on the PTS, 3% weapon crit and 1.5% spell crit. Those numbers are ridiculous.

Try Wrath of the Imperium. +10% moves to +1% (green rings, purple staff)

Was a big part of my Sorc build

Yes, I forgot that one! I used it too, so I feel your pain. Soulshine was hit absurdly hard as well. Reduced from 4% Spell Crit to 1%? The moment I saw that I started laughing and though "well, time to dust off the old warlock set".

Fruity_Ninja

Grao wrote: »

Fruity_Ninja wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

The Wise Mage set and the Nightmother's set are likely the most brutal examples. Wise Mage grants 8% spell crit on live, yet on PTS the tool tip now says it grants 4% crit and when equipped, the armor set only gives 3% crit. Nightmother's too, on live 8% weapon crit and 4% spell crit, on the PTS, 3% weapon crit and 1.5% spell crit. Those numbers are ridiculous.

Try Wrath of the Imperium. +10% moves to +1% (green rings, purple staff)

Was a big part of my Sorc build

Yes, I forgot that one! I used it too, so I feel your pain. Soulshine was hit absurdly hard as well. Reduced from 4% Spell Crit to 1%? The moment I saw that I started laughing and though "well, time to dust off the old warlock set".

Yup, I am now in need of new rings/necklace for my chars in advance of the patch (was using Soulshine and Imperium across my 2x chars). It's definitely a bit of a pain.

I can see prices inflating massively as well, because the number of useful sets are decreasing.

Grao

I've been testing the set from Aetherian Archive, Necklace + 2 Rings that place a daedric bomb on the enemy upon a complete Heavy Attack. That + the new passive on Fire staff heavy attack does quite a bit of damage and because heavy attacks are so strong atm, everyone is using it, so the bomb explodes fast.

Derra

Or maybe this was done because critical ratings of well above 60% were unbalanced to begin with?

Grao

Derra wrote: »

Or maybe this was done because critical ratings of well above 60% were unbalanced to begin with?

I agree with you, we've all been relying too much on Crit for DPS, Healing and Ultimate Generation. I am all for removing crit from armor, but that has to be replaced by something else, otherwise you make a viable, even excellent end game gear, into pure crap. I deconstructed my aether set on the PTS for gold materials, I kid you not!

Joejudas

you made the thread....nice buddy +10 i agree with this we talked about it lol

Valencer

They need to do something about this. Endgame gear being worse than most of the crafted sets just isn't going to cut it.

If not high crit chance, then something else. Just give all the affected sets *something*.

f047ys3v3n

AA gear is like the crappiest gear in the game now. Way to go ZOS I'm sure people will run Trials for crap gear. Sanctum gear is diminished as well. I'm sure happy I spent two months earning that.

Grao

Joejudas wrote: »

you made the thread....nice buddy +10 i agree with this we talked about it lol

I said I'd make the post in the morning

Valencer wrote: »

They need to do something about this. Endgame gear being worse than most of the crafted sets just isn't going to cut it.

If not high crit chance, then something else. Just give all the affected sets *something*.

Yup, that is the whole point. Since crit is causing problems and being abused, fine. Remove it from armor all together and give something else interesting in return. I really think a set bonus that affects the new buffs would be really interesting.

And as for Jewels and Weapons, let those sets have the same amount of Critical Chance as they have in Live. There are very few good Jewel sets in game at the moment.

DDuke

I find myself agreeing with this.

Would be nice to see something replace crit set bonuses.

I would, however, like to see crit return some day, if multiple enchantments on armour/weapons are ever considered, or something like a socket system.

Helluin

Derra wrote: »

Or maybe this was done because critical ratings of well above 60% were unbalanced to begin with?

Even using a crit build, I agree with what Derra wrote.
Critical chances were too high.

I recall perfectly once I sent a feedback in game suggesting to reduce critical chances and to change impenetrable to reduce critical damage.
So what can I say about 1.6 on this matter?
It's good because crit builds can be used also in PvP but in a better balanced way.

I agree that some sets are weaker than live on the critical chances, but if 2% is now the standard and you can't achieve crazy percentages, so they can still be used.
A set like Hunding's Rage for example has 4% crit less but the ammount of weapon damage is a lot.
Night Mother's Gaze, being based on crit, is now a lot less interesting but the last bonus is now usable also in PvP. Surely is a set that could require a changement but also because it's an hybrid one.
If you want more crit, you can still use Thief Mundus stone.
The Craglorn's craftable sets for example are now more interesting because of the break free cost and the two Mundus Stones usable.

I consider instead a problem the hybrid sets, that are many and now are really weak, because of how stats scale for hybrid builds.

Armitas

Could something be bugged. When I look at my V14 crit set on my level 2 toon it shows 50% crit per bonus. Maybe the level formula for it is off.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

I don't understand the problem some people have with people running around with high critical chance.

Do you even understand how much you have to give up to actualy get any returns from critical chance from your sets?

Each time you pick up 4% critical chance you loose around 100-150 stat points into Health, Stamina or Magicka. Do it enough and you get a character which indeed reach over 70% critical chance easely but you also end up with 2K health and barely enough to reach stamina soft caps (unless you play OP Imperials).

This change sucks, but I suppose it will make my Khajiit passives much more valuable now...

Grao

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

I don't understand the problem some people have with people running around with high critical chance.

Do you even understand how much you have to give up to actualy get any returns from critical chance from your sets?

Each time you pick up 4% critical chance you loose around 100-150 stat points into Health, Stamina or Magicka. Do it enough and you get a character which indeed reach over 70% critical chance easely but you also end up with 2K health and barely enough to reach stamina soft caps (unless you play OP Imperials).

This change sucks, but I suppose it will make my Khajiit passives much more valuable now...

The problem isn't just the amount of critical chance we have on Live, but the amount we'd be able to get with the Live values and the champion system. Essentially, it would be possible to have more then 100% Crit. That would be a problem.

Circuitous

So, I was under the impression that "Weapon Critical" and "Spell Critical" now modified Critical Damage and not Critical Chance. Hence the significantly smaller numbers: rather than being a flat 1 in 100, you're now modifying attacks doing potentially thousands of damage. Is this inaccurate?

Not sure where I got this idea, but it's sorely mistaken. Carry on.

madangrypally

Circuitous wrote: »

So, I was under the impression that "Weapon Critical" and "Spell Critical" now modified Critical Damage and not Critical Chance. Hence the significantly smaller numbers: rather than being a flat 1 in 100, you're now modifying attacks doing potentially thousands of damage. Is this inaccurate?

Not correct.

Weapon Critical and Spell Critical works similar to the live version. The changes made to it were this:

1. The amount of Critical Strike/Spell Critical required to get a 1% increased chance to cause a critical hit now increases per level.
2. Precise Weapons that have a lower Required Level than the player character than owns it will provide less actual benefit.
3. A Critical Hit still does 50% greater damage unless modified.
4. You will now have a base Critical Hit chance of 10%.

Critical Resistance: This attribute no longer reduces the chance to be hit by a Critical hit. (Impen for example)

Critical Resistance now reduces the bonus damage caused by a Critical hit, and with enough, can reduce the bonus damage to 0.

The amount of Critical Resistance required to completely eliminate the unmodified bonus damage from a Critical hit is 50 * (your Character Level + your Veteran Rank number).

For example, a VR14 would be 3400 Critical Resistance. (this seems impossible to achieve)

This is a major change as it will enable players in PvP to crit again.


There are also some passives and gear sets that increase critical damage. This works opposite of Critical Resistance.
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Pyatra

Crit is sub par in general now. Max level VR 14 Sorc, lets pretend you can have a single 900 point bonus of Magicka on your armor, this gives around 3% increase in DPS.

To get 3% damage increase you would need 6% crit because damage value of 1% crit = 0.5% total damage increase. With the new Magicka bonuses to armor even if you kept your 4% crit per armor property... it means nothing. Stack the stat cuz there ain't no cap! Depending on your % bonuses to Magicka they could very well overtake even armor spell power/weapon power bonuses but SP/WP is normally more than the stat.

A VR10 Necropotence set my actually give you more DPS than a VR14 Crit Set, hell it may have become one of the best off sets in the game. And some of the craftable sets are banging it out now too.

Reserve crit stacking for anything other than Armor/Gear. Only other time you would be forced to choose between Crit and Stat is Mundus and that is going to be a toss up depending on your bonus % to a stat.

The light at the end of the tunnel:
12% bonus to crit when you invest 30 points in the right constellation.

Already did my math here for Damage from a test sorc:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/149098/drinks-the-math-real-numbers-for-zos#latest

Theegoliath

I am in agreement that the 1% that the armor sets now have on the pts is like an insult. Give us like 3% Increased attack speed or something on those sets. There isnt even any noncrafted weapon item in the game that increases attack speed. Put it on these armor sets! At least then they would matter, and be usefull.

1% crit chance increase is so insinificant.

cschwingeb14_ESO

Relax everyone. Crit on a number of items and passives looks to be bugged due to the change to crit rating. Someone at ZOS had to be crunching the numbers enough to know that less than 4% crit on an item set is ridiculously low. Especially now that crits no longer generate ult

Rather that get bent out of shape, just/bug it and move on

Theegoliath

Devs have been playing this for months behind the scenes. This is HUGE bug if it is a bug. I doubt its a bug when more then one set has 1%.

xaraan

I think the problem isn't just that crit on gear is a waste of a bonus now (I agree that it is) but that you can still get your crit build up in other ways without those bonuses. A DK in our group, without crit boosting from gear is like at 70% crit, so it's not that it's impossible to get that high in 1.6, but it needs to be balanced so that you can get use from gear without inflating crit to a crazy amount.

Pyatra

xaraan wrote: »

I think the problem isn't just that crit on gear is a waste of a bonus now (I agree that it is) but that you can still get your crit build up in other ways without those bonuses. A DK in our group, without crit boosting from gear is like at 70% crit, so it's not that it's impossible to get that high in 1.6, but it needs to be balanced so that you can get use from gear without inflating crit to a crazy amount.

If they are 70% on PTS then they are probably stacking same buffs, once the same buff stacking is fixed their crit will look more like 40-52% with the Champion perk of 12% unless they dual wield.