Do you like the Champion System being a form of Vertical Progression?

DDuke

Currently as is, it takes years to grind all Champion Points (assuming Zenimax doesn't add more of them). Each point is earned 400K experience (subject to change), and there are 3600 points in total.

Most points directly make your character stronger (less dmg, more dmg etc), while some are just useful for crafting etc.

This, combined with the time it takes & the ability to eventually unlock all passives essentially makes Champion System a form of Vertical Progression that mostly just looks at the amount of time you spend playing.


What are your thoughts on the subject? Do you like it, if so, why? Would you have preferred some other form of progression (Vertical or Horizontal)?

Let me know your thoughts


Decimus

timidobserver

I like Champion System how it is.

I am okay with the Champion System. I have seen first hand that all of the content is doable with just 70 Champion Points. Earning additional points just adds more flavor to your build and gives you perks to make things easier. Now all they need to do is get rid of veteran ranks.

My only problem with it is that some of the high end passives are EXTREMELY useless like reinforced(super tiny damage shield, that a level 1 could oenshot, every 20 seconds.)

Elsonso

I view Champion System as a horizontal progression, as is.

The Veteran System is vertical progression.

Kallipsoe

I like Champion System how it is.

I would like to see more utilities added to the champion system and not all necessary to combat. Once you hit the hard cap I would like to start spending points in some fun utilities.

Some examples off the top of my head.

After x amount of points are spent in a constellation you get 1 skill point.
Decrease the amount of gold to port to a wayshrine by x.
Increase movement speed by x.
receive x% extra gold from vendor trash.
Increase Bag Space by x per point.
Increase the chance to catch rare fish by x.
Decrease equipment durability damage by x.

Just a few examples off the top of my head.

Oh and how about spending points to increase your hard cap.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

I would've preferred something else (describe)

I like the idea of skill trees. I dont like the perks for putting points into each are sub par at best.

technohic

I would've preferred something else (describe)

I would have preferred more "horizontal" progression for it. Things like stamina for riding the horse or crafting convenience, or whatever you could think of. I'm not so much of a fan of maybe having to regain power through it.

That said; the gains are small IMO and it being really slow at least makes it to where it won't be immediately ground out so it makes it a bit more meaningless for a while but in the long run, if they expect the game to last a few years, it will become a large gap to new players.

Wifeaggro13

I like Champion System how it is.

DDuke wrote: »

Currently as is, it takes years to grind all Champion Points (assuming Zenimax doesn't add more of them). Each point is earned 400K experience (subject to change), and there are 3600 points in total.

Most points directly make your character stronger (less dmg, more dmg etc), while some are just useful for crafting etc.

This, combined with the time it takes & the ability to eventually unlock all passives essentially makes Champion System a form of Vertical Progression that mostly just looks at the amount of time you spend playing.


What are your thoughts on the subject? Do you like it, if so, why? Would you have preferred some other form of progression (Vertical or Horizontal)?

Let me know your thoughts


Decimus

I would prefer they add some actives to each tree after the tree is fully unlocked. My main concern with them dropping this system now is there is no content on the horizon until well after the console has released. this will lead to a very stale enviroment to progress in.

So it will be a solid 10 months plus before we see additional content Itemization and expansion for the game . this is no good.

Alphashado

I like Champion System how it is.

I will like it more with Vet Ranks gone.

KhajitFurTrader

I like Champion System how it is.

CS is horizontal, not vertical. As it is, very small increments in power level per point invested is the hallmark of horizontal progression. It's designed as "nice to have, in the long run". So I like it as it is.

DDuke

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

CS is horizontal, not vertical. As it is, very small increments in power level per point invested is the hallmark of horizontal progression. It's designed as "nice to have, in the long run". So I like it as it is.

Not really, since CS expands player power, instead of simply providing more options like a Horizontal system would do.

If there was a finite number of Champion Points you could get, where you had to think where to spend them, then it would be Horizontal, much like a talent tree.

However, the fact that you're able to get all of them (and that it takes years to do so), points at a vertical system, where players with more time on their hands will systematically become more powerful than those without (yes, I know of the Enlightenment system).


Personal opinion: there is nothing wrong with Vertical Progression (in fact, I wouldn't play a game without it), but I would rather have it be gear based & gated behind difficult content (e.g. raids or PvP), so it'd become more player skill based progression, as opposed to time based progression.

Biggest fear? "LFM Spellscar Champion Point grind" 14 hours a day.

Joejudas

I do not like it.

So just out of curiosity...everyone who voted for this system is ok with zos taking away your character progress with stat nerfs and armor nerfs and forcing you to get it back in system that will require you to gain about 200 points at 1 every 5 hours by grinding. You guys are cool with that ? Based on testing by alot of people pvp and dungeons still only give you enough exp to get 1 cp a day if your lucky.

timidobserver

I like Champion System how it is.

Joejudas wrote: »

So just out of curiosity...everyone who voted for this system is ok with zos taking away your character progress with stat nerfs and armor nerfs and forcing you to get it back in system that will require you to gain about 200 points at 1 every 5 hours by grinding. You guys are cool with that ? Based on testing by alot of people pvp and dungeons still only give you enough exp to get 1 cp a day if your lucky.

Yes, amazingly some people disagree with you. I know it is hard to believe.

rawne1980b16_ESO

I do not like it.

Not really a fan of it.

I hated vet ranks and now they are just adding more on top.

I'll be trying it out once it goes live to see if they improved on what it is now but i'll be playing for free. I can't ever see me paying a sub for it.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

I like Champion System how it is.

you dont need maxed out cp!!!
Grinding all the points will never be necessary. everything is a percent based increase so, your glass cannon magic build is not going to be broken because you dont have all the points increasing your (low) base health regain, your caster wont be broken because you have not yet maxed your physical damage, physical crit, blade damage, axe/mace damage, bow damage, all three armor increases... etc. A LOT of the system is honing into specific builds not just general things every build needs; although there is also lots of great stuff good for every build.

I cant fathom anyone who has actually gone onto the pts and tested this saying to themself " gezz i really am going to need every single stat maxed".

ps can anyone explain why pve players are upset about a new challenge after getting all the gear they want and then facerolling all the content with record times? dosent a new challenge seem the least bit interesting? Im very happy about how this looks for pvp.

Tandor

I like Champion System how it is.

Vertical progression that takes several years to complete sounds perfect to me. I'm here for the long term and have no interest in instant progression. When I make progress in a game I want it to mean something.

Emma_Overload

I like Champion System how it is.

Even though there is plenty to gripe about 1.6, I love the Champion System. It gives a high level player a lot to think about and play with, and they make it easy to reallocate your points if you need to.

Soulshine

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

you dont need maxed out cp!!!
Grinding all the points will never be necessary. everything is a percent based increase so, your glass cannon magic build is not going to be broken because you dont have all the points increasing your (low) base health regain, your caster wont be broken because you have not yet maxed your physical damage, physical crit, blade damage, axe/mace damage, bow damage, all three armor increases... etc. A LOT of the system is honing into specific builds not just general things every build needs; although there is also lots of great stuff good for every build.

I cant fathom anyone who has actually gone onto the pts and tested this saying to themself " gezz i really am going to need every single stat maxed".

ps can anyone explain why pve players are upset about a new challenge after getting all the gear they want and then facerolling all the content with record times? dosent a new challenge seem the least bit interesting? Im very happy about how this looks for pvp.

Responding only to the bolded piece above only, yes! a "new challenge" would be great. In my book however, a new challenge for PvE means new content to play. The Justice system is a new system, and the champion system is a new system. They are not challenging in any way. A new zone with new quests, raids, locations, skyshards, etc. THAT would be interesting to this player at least - and hopefully, maybe, challenging if they don't keep nerfing the difficulty level of the game.