Gain CP the way you gain ultimate

xaade

If the idea is to get 1 cp per enlightened hour, then lets just give it.

Now, we don't want people just standing AFK for an hour.

So let's have every action add time to a clock. And the clock ticks down towards CP.

Craft an item -> x time added.
Kill a mob -> x time added.
Finish a dungeon -> x time added.
Loot a chest, rob an NPC, get hit by a guard, pickpocket, attack a player -> x time added.
Then participating in unique community events could add time.

And then that x time later converts to CP, whether you are logged in or not.

That will be HELLA easier to balance, give people more options than just earning XP.

Being enlightened just adds to a different time bucket that become 4 times CP EXP, and that bucket is consumed first.

So to repeat

Actions convert into time (balanced by weight of action)
Time ticks down whether you are logged in or not, and every unit of time becomes a unit of CP exp.

xaade

No thoughts out there?

Circuitous

I actually like this a lot.

Helluin

I like it.
I proposed something similar in the last @Berinima's topic.

Nazon_Katts

Instead of switching to "time" you could just continue calling it XP, that fills up the bucket, which is just a level or CP.

But I agree, we definitely need more sources for either CP XP or directly awarded CP, be it through achievements, alliance ranks or just time passed (1CP/d seems to be what they're willing to give via enlightenment anyways).

I like the idea of handing out CPs for events as well, tho that's probably not all that easily pulled off.

ashlee17

Like

shuskey5ub17_ESO

It might just work though. Maybe you gain CP when you level?

Kuro1n

Wow, that is a great idea actually... That could give people incentive to do all the things you don't gain *** for right now like crafting or PVPing.

technohic

Yeah, I like it. I finally have been focusing on PvP and actually enjoying the game and remember why I bought into it in the first place after hating the beta until I got to level 10. Anything that lets me do that is great in my book. Anything that lets everybody actually enjoy the game how they prefer rather than feel forced to do other things and possibly hate the game should be great in ZOS book as well.

C0pp3rhead

Nope, too easy to exploit. I could have a bunch of mats in my inventory, go afk, and just come back every 9 minutes to craft an iron dagger. Worse yet, I could have a bot take care of that for me. The only way this would work is if they cap CP per day. This would not be a viable solution because this system would not reward players who spend alotta time online.

Faugaun

I like this idea, and it prevents "abuse" from grind spots as it puts it all to time base.

Previously I posted a thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/149963/a-radical-redesign-of-the-champion-system/p1

To try to allow more ways of gaining CP by generating CP through achievements. With that concept in mind I think a combination effect of the achievements systems and this idea would be best.

Like all current exp granting activities add to your CP gain timer, but so do activities that work towards achievements ...so catch a fish (while working on your fishing achievement) gain some time towards your CP. As long as your earned time is above 0 seconds then even if you afk your banked time would count down at a fixed rate. Once it hit 0 you would stop gaining until you did something worth Adding to the banked earning.

I also think 1-3 hours of play should earn the daily maximum so if you actively play for x amount of time you earn y banked CP, that CP is awarded over a given time period (which continues to tick away while you're logged off).


Grrr, I'm having trouble explaining the idea in my head I hope this makes sense ...

Dymence

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

Nope, too easy to exploit. I could have a bunch of mats in my inventory, go afk, and just come back every 9 minutes to craft an iron dagger. Worse yet, I could have a bot take care of that for me. The only way this would work is if they cap CP per day. This would not be a viable solution because this system would not reward players who spend alotta time online.

Exactly my thoughts aswell.

Faugaun

Dymence wrote: »

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

Nope, too easy to exploit. I could have a bunch of mats in my inventory, go afk, and just come back every 9 minutes to craft an iron dagger. Worse yet, I could have a bot take care of that for me. The only way this would work is if they cap CP per day. This would not be a viable solution because this system would not reward players who spend alotta time online.

Exactly my thoughts aswell.

What is it about you people ? Who cares if someone elploits it? What impact at all does someone else being lame and exploiting an exp generating mechanism have on you as a player? If they are so lame they want to idle around in town making daggers every 9 minutes to get exp (which by the way I would rather just see making 100 daggers adds a certain time to your banked time (maybe 30 seconds per dagger) so if I make 100 dagger then I get 50 min of banked exp..someone who plays a lot could bank unlimited CP time ...guess what when they go on a 3 week vacation the will be gaining CP the whole time. Banked CP is used at a fixed rate to prevent people from advancing too quickly.

Finally supposed you are sitting on a lot of banked CP...well you can go outside...or just play to have fun ...why do you need to have immediate reward for every last little thing you do and if someone else cheats for that same reward then its an injury to you?

If they cheat they are cheating themselves worrying about meaningless pixels ... Who cares? If they wanna spend money on dlc content to sit in a tavern and gain CP? Well its more money for the devs and its no skin off my back...I just wonder why they are wasting electricity on something to just sit around ???

C0pp3rhead

Faugaun wrote: »

I also think 1-3 hours of play should earn the daily maximum so if you actively play for x amount of time you earn y banked CP, that CP is awarded over a given time period (which continues to tick away while you're logged off).

Do you mean to say that the daily maximum would be only a few CP per day, and anything above that gets "banked"? So if the next day I don't hit the cap, I receive any CP that I might have banked?

This is a terrible idea. If my friends and I are having difficulty with a dungeon, we might estimate that we each need about 20 more CP to make the dungeon do-able. If we decide to embark on two or three hard afternoons of questing to get our CP, we should be able to do that. With the system you describe, my friends and I would not only have to work hard to get the points, but we would have to wait a week to get just 20 cp (assuming the cap is around 3/day). A higher cap won't help. Dedicated players who are willing to play more to meet their goals deserve to get their rewards for their work. They don't want to get paid tomorrow for a cheeseburger today. Besides a huge draw of end-game content is bragging rights. Getting something done first or fastest is a big deal. Hamstringing dedicated gamers in the name of "fairness" is just plain silly.

One solution I hear is to award xp for crafting (not just inspiration). Because I can craft a cuirass faster than I can kill a monster, crafting would give less xp. If it gave too much xp, crafting would be susceptible to exploiting by rich players. And this is why awarding xp for crafting is a horrible idea: this is pay to win. It incentivizes people to buy gold with cash to buy materials to farm for xp. Bad idea. And just because you won't do it does not mean that someone else won't. It will never happen because its too easy to abuse.

I really don't understand why some players think they deserve to be rewarded for doing whatever they want. If you choose to sit around at the Half Moon Inn, that's your business. Discussing the finer points of mead brewing or the tail length of some lusty Argonian maid isn't work. Hosting a crafts/market event earns profit and publicity for you and your guild. The gold is the reward, not xp. If you wan't xp, go help an NPC by killing creatures and collecting things.

Kuro1n

Faugaun wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

Nope, too easy to exploit. I could have a bunch of mats in my inventory, go afk, and just come back every 9 minutes to craft an iron dagger. Worse yet, I could have a bot take care of that for me. The only way this would work is if they cap CP per day. This would not be a viable solution because this system would not reward players who spend alotta time online.

Exactly my thoughts aswell.

What is it about you people ? Who cares if someone elploits it? What impact at all does someone else being lame and exploiting an exp generating mechanism have on you as a player? If they are so lame they want to idle around in town making daggers every 9 minutes to get exp (which by the way I would rather just see making 100 daggers adds a certain time to your banked time (maybe 30 seconds per dagger) so if I make 100 dagger then I get 50 min of banked exp..someone who plays a lot could bank unlimited CP time ...guess what when they go on a 3 week vacation the will be gaining CP the whole time. Banked CP is used at a fixed rate to prevent people from advancing too quickly.

Finally supposed you are sitting on a lot of banked CP...well you can go outside...or just play to have fun ...why do you need to have immediate reward for every last little thing you do and if someone else cheats for that same reward then its an injury to you?

If they cheat they are cheating themselves worrying about meaningless pixels ... Who cares? If they wanna spend money on dlc content to sit in a tavern and gain CP? Well its more money for the devs and its no skin off my back...I just wonder why they are wasting electricity on something to just sit around ???

Wow you truly don't see the issue with that? PVP wise they would wreck others who don't do this.

The idea of the system is great but it needs to be tweaked quite a bit. I think ZOS is on the right way with the enlightenment thing but it needs to be improved a lot more and maybe revamped into this thing OP is talking about with a cap of some sort and then allow EXP to grind it up further for those that are interested in that.

Dymence

Faugaun wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

Nope, too easy to exploit. I could have a bunch of mats in my inventory, go afk, and just come back every 9 minutes to craft an iron dagger. Worse yet, I could have a bot take care of that for me. The only way this would work is if they cap CP per day. This would not be a viable solution because this system would not reward players who spend alotta time online.

Exactly my thoughts aswell.

What is it about you people ? Who cares if someone elploits it? What impact at all does someone else being lame and exploiting an exp generating mechanism have on you as a player? If they are so lame they want to idle around in town making daggers every 9 minutes to get exp (which by the way I would rather just see making 100 daggers adds a certain time to your banked time (maybe 30 seconds per dagger) so if I make 100 dagger then I get 50 min of banked exp..someone who plays a lot could bank unlimited CP time ...guess what when they go on a 3 week vacation the will be gaining CP the whole time. Banked CP is used at a fixed rate to prevent people from advancing too quickly.

Finally supposed you are sitting on a lot of banked CP...well you can go outside...or just play to have fun ...why do you need to have immediate reward for every last little thing you do and if someone else cheats for that same reward then its an injury to you?

If they cheat they are cheating themselves worrying about meaningless pixels ... Who cares? If they wanna spend money on dlc content to sit in a tavern and gain CP? Well its more money for the devs and its no skin off my back...I just wonder why they are wasting electricity on something to just sit around ???

So I'm not supposed to care if someone performs better than me at PVE and will wreck me in PVP because they're exploiting because its 'their time and not mine'?

Okay, I'll keep that in mind for the next time.

C0pp3rhead

Faugaun wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

Nope, too easy to exploit. I could have a bunch of mats in my inventory, go afk, and just come back every 9 minutes to craft an iron dagger. Worse yet, I could have a bot take care of that for me. The only way this would work is if they cap CP per day. This would not be a viable solution because this system would not reward players who spend alotta time online.

Exactly my thoughts aswell.

What is it about you people ? Who cares if someone elploits it? What impact at all does someone else being lame and exploiting an exp generating mechanism have on you as a player? If they are so lame they want to idle around in town making daggers every 9 minutes to get exp ...guess what when they go on a 3 week vacation the will be gaining CP the whole time.

I could easily do real work and switch windows every 9 minutes. Like I said in my post - bragging rights is a huge deal for many players who engage in the most difficult end-game content. In many cases they are parents, spouses, students, working people, etc. who put alotta effort into the limited time they have online. Cheating is wrong. And before you say that not many people engage in this kind of play style, you're incorrect. More importantly, the people who are completing the most difficult content are usually also dedicated, loyal, and long-time subscribers. Allowing exploits and cheating is a way wreck your game, quickly losing those long-time subscribers.

Banked CP is used at a fixed rate to prevent people from advancing too quickly.

You don't want people to gain CP too quickly? Presumably because they would be too powerful too soon? But it's ok to exploit to get CP? Your logic doesn't quite add up here.

Why do you need to have immediate reward for every last little thing you do and if someone else cheats for that same reward then its an injury to you?

See the above: i.e. glory & rewarding hard work. Also, cheating is wrong.
It's also against the EULA that we agreed to before playing.

RinaldoGandolphi

Ahh gotta get those champ points.....

Rune_Relic

Errmm I think the idea is the 24/7 grinders could not run away with CP.
If you make it conditional on activity...you are basically just returning to Vet ranks based on experience (activity) and farming.

I propose how ultimate should be.
Stick it on a clock and nothing else.
That way it matters not one jot if you are grinder or casual...you progress at the same rate.
Those that have been with the game for 2 years have 2 years worth of CP.
But that CP will have less and less affect anyway.
You 1st years CP wil be just as valuable as years 2&3 combined.
This way newcomers arent left behind and vets still progress.

Say "No" to the grind!

C0pp3rhead

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Errmm I think the idea is the 24/7 grinders could not run away with CP.
If you make it conditional on activity...you are basically just returning to Vet ranks based on experience (activity) and farming.

I propose how ultimate should be.
Stick it on a clock and nothing else.
That way it matters not one jot if you are grinder or casual...you progress at the same rate.
Those that have been with the game for 2 years have 2 years worth of CP.
But that CP will have less and less affect anyway.
You 1st years CP wil be just as valuable as years 2&3 combined.
This way newcomers arent left behind and vets still progress.

So you mean that If I payed the plus fee, I would earn 10% more CP every day just because? You mean that I deserve CP simply because I bought the game? Even though I'm not contributing the the community, my guilds, or the economy I should earn CP anyway? What a silly and facile argument. If someone wants to put in the extra work for extra reward, why is that a problem? There are plenty of people with busy lives that make time for this game, or can only play for 3 hours every other day. They make time, they commit themselves, they work well with their teams, they're dependable, and guess what? They become skilled players with good gear. There are also gamers who play for 6 hours every single night, but don't accomplish anything. Wouldn't it be better to reward smart efficient players instead of rewarding someone who poses for screenshots for 2 hours?

Say "No" to the grind!

I dunno what you were expecting from an MMO.

Faugaun

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Errmm I think the idea is the 24/7 grinders could not run away with CP.
If you make it conditional on activity...you are basically just returning to Vet ranks based on experience (activity) and farming.

I propose how ultimate should be.
Stick it on a clock and nothing else.
That way it matters not one jot if you are grinder or casual...you progress at the same rate.
Those that have been with the game for 2 years have 2 years worth of CP.
But that CP will have less and less affect anyway.
You 1st years CP wil be just as valuable as years 2&3 combined.
This way newcomers arent left behind and vets still progress.

So you mean that If I payed the plus fee, I would earn 10% more CP every day just because? You mean that I deserve CP simply because I bought the game? Even though I'm not contributing the the community, my guilds, or the economy I should earn CP anyway? What a silly and facile argument. If someone wants to put in the extra work for extra reward, why is that a problem? There are plenty of people with busy lives that make time for this game, or can only play for 3 hours every other day. They make time, they commit themselves, they work well with their teams, they're dependable, and guess what? They become skilled players with good gear. There are also gamers who play for 6 hours every single night, but don't accomplish anything. Wouldn't it be better to reward smart efficient players instead of rewarding someone who poses for screenshots for 2 hours?

Say "No" to the grind!

I dunno what you were expecting from an MMO.

@Rune_Relic a time based system is fine IMHO...perhaps just link it to a login, if you login for 60 minutes or more (or whatever length is Deemed reasonable) on a given day then you receive the full CP for that day.

@C0pp3rhead what would you do if you only had to play for an hour (however you want to spend that hour) to achieve the maximum CP benefit for the day? I mean now you have 23 hours to do whatever you want. I think you're missing the point of games and entertainment entirely.

Rune_Relic

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Errmm I think the idea is the 24/7 grinders could not run away with CP.
If you make it conditional on activity...you are basically just returning to Vet ranks based on experience (activity) and farming.

I propose how ultimate should be.
Stick it on a clock and nothing else.
That way it matters not one jot if you are grinder or casual...you progress at the same rate.
Those that have been with the game for 2 years have 2 years worth of CP.
But that CP will have less and less affect anyway.
You 1st years CP wil be just as valuable as years 2&3 combined.
This way newcomers arent left behind and vets still progress.

So you mean that If I payed the plus fee, I would earn 10% more CP every day just because? You mean that I deserve CP simply because I bought the game? Even though I'm not contributing the the community, my guilds, or the economy I should earn CP anyway? What a silly and facile argument. If someone wants to put in the extra work for extra reward, why is that a problem? There are plenty of people with busy lives that make time for this game, or can only play for 3 hours every other day. They make time, they commit themselves, they work well with their teams, they're dependable, and guess what? They become skilled players with good gear. There are also gamers who play for 6 hours every single night, but don't accomplish anything. Wouldn't it be better to reward smart efficient players instead of rewarding someone who poses for screenshots for 2 hours?

Say "No" to the grind!

I dunno what you were expecting from an MMO.

Err yeah...lol.

So those people who spent 6 hours of their time in the game role playing, exploring, questing or however they chose to spend their time is less valuable then 6 hours of your time ?

You're saying we should ONLY reward people for grinding....not for their loyalty and free time that they sacrificed playing the game ?

I think what you mean is you have tonnes of spare time on your hands and you want to use it to give you as much of an advantage over everyone else as possible.....by grinding XP to get 3600 CP by any means necessary. You want your crutch. You want your power gap. You want to be a god among men.

Download skyrim...be the god you want to be.

RoamingRiverElk

Faugaun wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

Nope, too easy to exploit. I could have a bunch of mats in my inventory, go afk, and just come back every 9 minutes to craft an iron dagger. Worse yet, I could have a bot take care of that for me. The only way this would work is if they cap CP per day. This would not be a viable solution because this system would not reward players who spend alotta time online.

Exactly my thoughts aswell.

What is it about you people ? Who cares if someone elploits it? What impact at all does someone else being lame and exploiting an exp generating mechanism have on you as a player? If they are so lame they want to idle around in town making daggers every 9 minutes to get exp (which by the way I would rather just see making 100 daggers adds a certain time to your banked time (maybe 30 seconds per dagger) so if I make 100 dagger then I get 50 min of banked exp..someone who plays a lot could bank unlimited CP time ...guess what when they go on a 3 week vacation the will be gaining CP the whole time. Banked CP is used at a fixed rate to prevent people from advancing too quickly.

Finally supposed you are sitting on a lot of banked CP...well you can go outside...or just play to have fun ...why do you need to have immediate reward for every last little thing you do and if someone else cheats for that same reward then its an injury to you?

If they cheat they are cheating themselves worrying about meaningless pixels ... Who cares? If they wanna spend money on dlc content to sit in a tavern and gain CP? Well its more money for the devs and its no skin off my back...I just wonder why they are wasting electricity on something to just sit around ???

I care because I PvP.

Faugaun

Rune_Relic wrote: »

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Errmm I think the idea is the 24/7 grinders could not run away with CP.
If you make it conditional on activity...you are basically just returning to Vet ranks based on experience (activity) and farming.

I propose how ultimate should be.
Stick it on a clock and nothing else.
That way it matters not one jot if you are grinder or casual...you progress at the same rate.
Those that have been with the game for 2 years have 2 years worth of CP.
But that CP will have less and less affect anyway.
You 1st years CP wil be just as valuable as years 2&3 combined.
This way newcomers arent left behind and vets still progress.

So you mean that If I payed the plus fee, I would earn 10% more CP every day just because? You mean that I deserve CP simply because I bought the game? Even though I'm not contributing the the community, my guilds, or the economy I should earn CP anyway? What a silly and facile argument. If someone wants to put in the extra work for extra reward, why is that a problem? There are plenty of people with busy lives that make time for this game, or can only play for 3 hours every other day. They make time, they commit themselves, they work well with their teams, they're dependable, and guess what? They become skilled players with good gear. There are also gamers who play for 6 hours every single night, but don't accomplish anything. Wouldn't it be better to reward smart efficient players instead of rewarding someone who poses for screenshots for 2 hours?

Say "No" to the grind!

I dunno what you were expecting from an MMO.

Err yeah...lol.

So those people who spent 6 hours of their time in the game role playing, exploring, questing or however they chose to spend their time is less valuable then 6 hours of your time ?

You're saying we should ONLY reward people for grinding....not for their loyalty and free time that they sacrificed playing the game ?

I think what you mean is you have tonnes of spare time on your hands and you want to use it to give you as much of an advantage over everyone else as possible.....by grinding XP to get 3600 CP by any means necessary. You want your crutch. You want your power gap. You want to be a god among men.

Download skyrim...be the god you want to be.

Exactly!

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

Nope, too easy to exploit. I could have a bunch of mats in my inventory, go afk, and just come back every 9 minutes to craft an iron dagger. Worse yet, I could have a bot take care of that for me. The only way this would work is if they cap CP per day. This would not be a viable solution because this system would not reward players who spend alotta time online.

Exactly my thoughts aswell.

What is it about you people ? Who cares if someone elploits it? What impact at all does someone else being lame and exploiting an exp generating mechanism have on you as a player? If they are so lame they want to idle around in town making daggers every 9 minutes to get exp (which by the way I would rather just see making 100 daggers adds a certain time to your banked time (maybe 30 seconds per dagger) so if I make 100 dagger then I get 50 min of banked exp..someone who plays a lot could bank unlimited CP time ...guess what when they go on a 3 week vacation the will be gaining CP the whole time. Banked CP is used at a fixed rate to prevent people from advancing too quickly.

Finally supposed you are sitting on a lot of banked CP...well you can go outside...or just play to have fun ...why do you need to have immediate reward for every last little thing you do and if someone else cheats for that same reward then its an injury to you?

If they cheat they are cheating themselves worrying about meaningless pixels ... Who cares? If they wanna spend money on dlc content to sit in a tavern and gain CP? Well its more money for the devs and its no skin off my back...I just wonder why they are wasting electricity on something to just sit around ???

I care because I PvP.

Right so you fight 100 people in PVP extending your cp banked amount by a given amount ? How does this hurt you again?

Rune_Relic

Faugaun wrote: »

@Rune_Relic a time based system is fine IMHO...perhaps just link it to a login, if you login for 60 minutes or more (or whatever length is Deemed reasonable) on a given day then you receive the full CP for that day.

I have no problem with CP based on logged on time.
Arguing about the rate of CP doesnt really bother me so much as long as its applied evenly for all.
The problem is see is people logging on...then going shopping and out to work.
But 9/10 times you get kicked for inactivity anyway so I am sure ZOS can plug that loophole.

So yeah as long as you are putting hours in playing the game...you get rewarded for your loyalty and devotion.
How you spend your time is upto you.
Play how you want.
Grinder, RP, PVP, PVE, adventurer...whatever.

Rather than force everyone to become a grinder just to be competitive in PVP or be on a level to THAT GUY and get into trials. Game is supposed to be fun...not an effective arms race. That still exists with skyshards for leveling PVP and PVE skills anyway.

You need to get new people to stay.
The more new people that stay....the more peer groups you get.
Peer groups will hodl each others hands and progress together.
They wont be left alone like lambs to the slaughter and just quit.

C0pp3rhead

Faugaun wrote: »

@C0pp3rhead what would you do if you only had to play for an hour (however you want to spend that hour) to achieve the maximum CP benefit for the day? I mean now you have 23 hours to do whatever you want. I think you're missing the point of games and entertainment entirely.

I think you're not realizing that there are many different reasons to play the game.

My point is this: If I want to spend 3 hours in-game, that's my business. If person A wants to spend only one hour, that's their business. If person B wants to stay up all night because they want to be the first person to 3600 CP, they're probably going to wreck me in Cyrodiil. They worked to become the strongest. Person B's character progression shouldn't be limited by the lowest common denominator. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be the best. Other players grind XP because they want to be valuable members of their team. Perhaps competition isn't your playstyle. That's fine. But please don't penalize others just because you're not pushing your character progression or because this game doesn't take priority in your life.

Let me pose it to you this way. I had a group of friends who were trying to do a training run in SO for 5 hours one evening last week. With a CP limit, they only get rewarded for 2-3 of those hours. For them, the system changes from time saved to time wasted. With a banking system, the payoff becomes deferred, and there's no reason to play for more than a few hours. If the limit is 3CP/day, the first person will achieve 3600 cp exactly 1200 days from now. While this certainly does achieve the stated goal: artificially evening out progression in the name of "fairness". What happens though, is it removes the ability to push your character and yourself in the name of progress.

I agree, grinding shouldn't be the way to get ahead. However, this problem is endemic to MMO's as a genre, and only tangentially related to CP. I agree with @Rune_Relic that questing and exploring should provide plenty of XP. But the arms race is how some people have fun. Fighting over a keep and declaring victory while standing atop the corpses of your enemies is FUN. If I can do it better, it's MORE FUN.

I don't agree that RP'ing should automatically give you XP. If you want to RP while clearing a dungeon, that's great. If you want to RP in a tavern, fine. But don't ask for XP hand-outs just because you're a warm body.That's like going into a coffee shop and asking to get paid because you're "lending to the atmosphere".

Ballzy321

I dunno if this new system is good or not I'll find out but I can't wait to see forums when pvp becomes crazy imbalanced because people will find a way to exploit it they always do.

Nivzruo_ESO

It is extremely rare that the forums spawn a half decent idea... this is probably the 3rd decent idea on the forums, well done.

Faugaun

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

@C0pp3rhead what would you do if you only had to play for an hour (however you want to spend that hour) to achieve the maximum CP benefit for the day? I mean now you have 23 hours to do whatever you want. I think you're missing the point of games and entertainment entirely.

I think you're not realizing that there are many different reasons to play the game.

My point is this: If I want to spend 3 hours in-game, that's my business. If person A wants to spend only one hour, that's their business. If person B wants to stay up all night because they want to be the first person to 3600 CP, they're probably going to wreck me in Cyrodiil. They worked to become the strongest. Person B's character progression shouldn't be limited by the lowest common denominator. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be the best. Other players grind XP because they want to be valuable members of their team. Perhaps competition isn't your playstyle. That's fine. But please don't penalize others just because you're not pushing your character progression or because this game doesn't take priority in your life.

Let me pose it to you this way. I had a group of friends who were trying to do a training run in SO for 5 hours one evening last week. With a CP limit, they only get rewarded for 2-3 of those hours. For them, the system changes from time saved to time wasted. With a banking system, the payoff becomes deferred, and there's no reason to play for more than a few hours. If the limit is 3CP/day, the first person will achieve 3600 cp exactly 1200 days from now. While this certainly does achieve the stated goal: artificially evening out progression in the name of "fairness". What happens though, is it removes the ability to push your character and yourself in the name of progress.

I agree, grinding shouldn't be the way to get ahead. However, this problem is endemic to MMO's as a genre, and only tangentially related to CP. I agree with @Rune_Relic that questing and exploring should provide plenty of XP. But the arms race is how some people have fun. Fighting over a keep and declaring victory while standing atop the corpses of your enemies is FUN. If I can do it better, it's MORE FUN.

I don't agree that RP'ing should automatically give you XP. If you want to RP while clearing a dungeon, that's great. If you want to RP in a tavern, fine. But don't ask for XP hand-outs just because you're a warm body.That's like going into a coffee shop and asking to get paid because you're "lending to the atmosphere".

I'm not specifying 1 or 2 or 50 CP per day that's zos job, I'm suggesting that you should have freedom to play how you want and still progress equally fast to everyone else for effort put in...even if you're not: grinding, questing, trialing, pvping, dungeoning....does this include fishing, rp, crafting, collecting mounts, buying and selling items in guild stores, exploration, helping out newbies, administrating a guild, sorting the guild bank.....etc...all these activities should reward you equally to: griming, PvP, questing, trials etc...this suggestion is a good way to achieve that

Rune_Relic

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

@C0pp3rhead what would you do if you only had to play for an hour (however you want to spend that hour) to achieve the maximum CP benefit for the day? I mean now you have 23 hours to do whatever you want. I think you're missing the point of games and entertainment entirely.

I think you're not realizing that there are many different reasons to play the game.

My point is this: If I want to spend 3 hours in-game, that's my business. If person A wants to spend only one hour, that's their business. If person B wants to stay up all night because they want to be the first person to 3600 CP, they're probably going to wreck me in Cyrodiil. They worked to become the strongest. Person B's character progression shouldn't be limited by the lowest common denominator. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be the best. Other players grind XP because they want to be valuable members of their team. Perhaps competition isn't your playstyle. That's fine. But please don't penalize others just because you're not pushing your character progression or because this game doesn't take priority in your life.

Let me pose it to you this way. I had a group of friends who were trying to do a training run in SO for 5 hours one evening last week. With a CP limit, they only get rewarded for 2-3 of those hours. For them, the system changes from time saved to time wasted. With a banking system, the payoff becomes deferred, and there's no reason to play for more than a few hours. If the limit is 3CP/day, the first person will achieve 3600 cp exactly 1200 days from now. While this certainly does achieve the stated goal: artificially evening out progression in the name of "fairness". What happens though, is it removes the ability to push your character and yourself in the name of progress.

I agree, grinding shouldn't be the way to get ahead. However, this problem is endemic to MMO's as a genre, and only tangentially related to CP. I agree with @Rune_Relic that questing and exploring should provide plenty of XP. But the arms race is how some people have fun. Fighting over a keep and declaring victory while standing atop the corpses of your enemies is FUN. If I can do it better, it's MORE FUN.

I don't agree that RP'ing should automatically give you XP. If you want to RP while clearing a dungeon, that's great. If you want to RP in a tavern, fine. But don't ask for XP hand-outs just because you're a warm body.That's like going into a coffee shop and asking to get paid because you're "lending to the atmosphere".

I appreciate what you are saying about so that "you can stand over your enemies and teabag"
I have no objection to that.
BUT... you want to do it because you have better stats, better gear, better weapons (through a grinding arms race).
Your way is to take a gun to a knife fight and see who wins.
My way is to take a knife to a knife fight and see who wins.

There is a big difference between winning on equal terms and winning with an unfair advantage.
One of them requires skill.
With all that extra hours put into combat experience....you shouldn't need a crutch to win.

C0pp3rhead

Rune_Relic wrote: »

BUT... you want to do it because you have better stats, better gear, better weapons (through a grinding arms race).
Your way is to take a gun to a knife fight and see who wins.
My way is to take a knife to a knife fight and see who wins.

1. Why would you bring a knife to a knife fight if you know everyone else is going to have guns? That's like saying you're benching your best player because the other team's best player is injured.
2. Of course I want better gear and weapons. Do you expect me to play a game where I can't advance, can't become stronger, and can't get better gear except for once but every 6th months when the devs feel like releasing new content? It's not a crutch - it's called progression. If someone else can't progress as fast or hasn't progressed as far, that's not my problem. I'm going to wear my Aether gear into Cyrodiil (at least for now) because I earned it. Just because there are people in Cyrodiil who don't PvE doesn't mean I shouldn't wear it. Just because you don't want to play as many hours as me doesn't mean I should earn fewer CP.

Faugaun wrote: »

I'm suggesting that you should have freedom to play how you want and still progress equally fast to everyone else for effort put in

This doesn't make sense. Either we progress equally fast or we progress based on effort. To try to combine these is giving a crutch to some players and limiting others. This isn't Care-Bears the rpg. If I want to put in the effort, I ought to get the reward. That's why many people attain high crafting skills for themselves. Sure, you can find someone to do it for you, but some players want to be self-reliant, not hobbled by the schedules of others.

does this include fishing, rp, crafting, collecting mounts, buying and selling items in guild stores, exploration, helping out newbies, administrating a guild, sorting the guild bank.....etc...all these activities should reward you equally to: griming, PvP, questing, trials etc?

If you spend 3 hours in a dungeon with a group, you get xp and maybe some loot. Maybe you all wipe and just get a little XP. If I want to endure 5 hours of mind-numbing boredom while killing a couple thousand atronachs in Craglorn, that's my choice. If you don't want to do it, you don't have to. If your vendetta is against grinding, I said previously that grinding as a viable game mechanic is endemic to MMO's. If you want grinding to stop, lend your voice to all of us who are begging for more content, like the Imperial City. We have to grind because we have no other option. We're competitive, and that's fun for us. Don't take that away by limiting our progression, by preventing us from reaching our full potential.

As for the other activities you named,
If you fish for 3 hours, you get 3 hours worth of fish, which you can sell for gold. There should be a fishing skill line, but I'm not responsible for ESO's half-baked game designs. Same for crafting - craft stuff, sell it for gold or enjoy it yourself. Buying and selling items generates gold. Gathering and collecting things gets you gold as well. Gold and what you can do with that gold is your reward for these activities.

Helping out newbies is something you do out of the goodness of your heart, not because you want XP. If someone in my group isn't pulling their weight, I talk to them about it, offer them advice, offer to craft some stuff cheap for 'em. I don't do it because I want XP. I want them to be a better player and enjoy the game.

Administering a guild is a responsibility that you accept as a guild leader. If you're a guild leader because you just want XP, you've probably got 10 people in your guild who just need the extra bank space.

Collecting mounts is now the purview of the crown store. If I can get xp for collecting mounts, pets, or costumes which cost money, that's Pay-2-Win.

RP is fun, but you can RP while dungeoneering or socializing. XP is not the goal of socializing. I can tell a story over TS - doesn't mean I deserve XP for it. I run with a Khajiit in Cyrodiil who tells stories about the funny things his cubs did that day. I appreciate his humor and accent, plus he's a good PvP'er. He doesn't want XP for posing for screenshots and sitting in taverns. RP is supposed to be fun. If that's not enough for you then maybe you should be doing something else. Character progression in RP doesn't depend on XP or getting a Valkyn Skorial Helm - it's about telling a story and expressing yourself or your character through the relationships you build with your buddies.

If you want XP, quest & kill.
If you want gold, buy & sell.
If you want to RP, just have fun with it.