1.6 Dual Wield: Assassin vs. Berserker

spoqster

I am missing berserker abilities in the current Dual Wield skill line. The whole skill line feels more geared towards assassins.

I think the berserker style is a viable and fun play style: Heavy armor, two axes, running into battle with bloodlust, slashing at everything in your way. Currently I am running my DK berserker with Twin Slashes and Whirlwind, but the other abilities don't quite fit.

I'd love to see a charge ability. Storming in with two weapons drawn will be great fun! Or maybe someone else has another, better idea for a berserker ability? Let me know!

They can remove Hidden Blade for all I care. Whoever uses that anyway?

Tavore1138

Don't you dare remove hidden blade, it's a staple for the stealther who doesn't want to go with a bow. Also a real pleasure for finishing bolt escaping mages in PvP.

kkampaseb17_ESO

I really don't know how to reply to this post other than if you want to play a berserker playstyle go for 2h? We play 2h and want him to be an "intelligence" fighter like a samurai....noooo....the berserker crowed tell us to go for DW if we want to play elegant/skill based fighters. Now you want berzerker as DW as well? I don't get you......

spoqster

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

I really don't know how to reply to this post other than if you want to play a berserker playstyle go for 2h? We play 2h and want him to be an "intelligence" fighter like a samurai....noooo....the berserker crowed tell us to go for DW if we want to play elegant/skill based fighters. Now you want berzerker as DW as well? I don't get you......

All I am saying, is that ideally the choice of weapon (and thus skill line) should not determine your playstyle. I also like the idea of an elegant 2H Samurai fighter - in fact I played 2H with my Nightblade for quite some time while leveling. I also like the idea of a fire caster fighting up close with shields popped and burning his opponents with his staff. But that's beside the point.

In this thread I am only worried about Dual Wield and possible changes there. Before update 6 I was hoping a bit that they would remove Sparks and introduce a charge skill. Now they did remove Sparks and swapped in a mixed defensive/offensive skill that I didn't get around to testing yet. But it sure doesn't sound very enthralling.

Anyway, I am just looking for opinions, trying to figure out if anyone else feels the same way.

Tavore1138

I always used to run with twin axes until the necessity to squeeze that extra few % of damage/crit made me switch to swords/daggers.

The berserker bit is surely in how you use it - if you run into a mass melee and start whaling away on someone with rapid strikes or putting out a steel tornado with little care for incoming damage then you are berserking.

Expecting each and very skill line to be tailored for your specific play preferences is unlikely - you'd be better off lobbying for a berserker class or skill tree with suitable stamina based skills - I have the DA:O berserker skills in the back of my mind here.

Kuolo

Hidden blade is pretty much the best skill in the whole DW line. It's ranged, gets snare and does more burst damage than any of the others. I think it might even be better overall dps too, just because it's ranged.

spoqster

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

I always used to run with twin axes until the necessity to squeeze that extra few % of damage/crit made me switch to swords/daggers.

The berserker bit is surely in how you use it - if you run into a mass melee and start whaling away on someone with rapid strikes or putting out a steel tornado with little care for incoming damage then you are berserking.

Expecting each and very skill line to be tailored for your specific play preferences is unlikely - you'd be better off lobbying for a berserker class or skill tree with suitable stamina based skills - I have the DA:O berserker skills in the back of my mind here.

Please don't get me wrong, I am in no way expecting anything to be tailored to MY specific needs. On the contrary, I am trying to be as objective here as possible. I am basically doing two things:

• First, I am assuming that assassin and berserker are the two play styles the DW skill line is used for. If you see another play style for DW, please go ahead enter it into the mix.
• Second, I am assuming, that as a game designer you want to design skill lines in a way that it is useful for all associated play styles. For example the Templar Restoration skill line works equally well for healers and self-sustained tanks, depending on what you slot and how you morph your skills.

Starting from these two assumptions I made the observation that DW currently feels much more geared towards assassins and the berserker play style is a bit under represented. Now I am looking for a show of hands to see whether my observation is shared by anyone else.

Granted, calling for Hidden Blade to be removed was not very objective. I mixed up two things here, because it felt related and I didn't want to open a new thread. I am glad voices are popping up explaining their positive take on Hidden Blade.

@SuraklinPrime I haven't played DAOC, and it would be cool if you could explain that skill line. I'd be interested to learn how they sculpted the berserker.

Tavore1138

No DAOC - I meant Dragon Age: Origins

There is basically a line of abilities, subset of 'fighter' that involve sacrificing health for the ability to hit people really hard - if they were to do it here I could imagine a possible example might be an ability that would read something like "Pay 250 health to gain 50 weapon damage for 20 seconds".

On feel - for DW I have always wished it felt a bit more wire-fu martial artsy style - only hidden blade and whirling blades really come close plus ambush from the assassin tree... I have hopes for the promised Dark Brotherhood skills one day...

bowmanz607

for what its worth I play an assassin and i also only use two skills from DW. Hidden Blade (flying blade morph) b/c, as it was stated before, does the most damage out of that skill line. It is also nice b/c I will keep funnel health on my bar so hidden blade allows me to back of my target while still being able to attack and activate funnel health for some extra heal. The only other skill I use is Twin slashes (blood craze morph) mainly for the extra heals but also the DoT.

My point is I also only use 2 skills as an assassin. I like that they changed sparks but also have not had a chance to test yet. But the one skill I feel people use the least out of the line is flurry. Perhaps that skill should be revisited at some point. That said, I am mainly a pvp player and flurry is too long of an attack to use there. I remember I had fun with it in pve, but i still recall wanting other skills in its place. How do all of you feel about a change with flurry?

Khivas_Carrick

*Is a Templar*

*Plays using mostly medium armor with one light and one heavy and a 2H*

*Isn't a typical crusader, definitely not heavy paladin or cleric*

*Also uses a bow and is not a berserker or assassin.*

*Is now facing an identity crisis*

Tavore1138

@bowmanz607‌ - Flurry is actually one of the best dps skills for PvE stamina NB builds, with the right armour/jewellery/support skills it can give good sustained damage sufficient for trials/DSA.

I do use it in PvP too but not sop much in an assassin style - it can be nice in melee linked with things like fear and caltrops simply to quickly drain stamina from those pesky DKs.

bowmanz607

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

@bowmanz607‌ - Flurry is actually one of the best dps skills for PvE stamina NB builds, with the right armour/jewellery/support skills it can give good sustained damage sufficient for trials/DSA.

I do use it in PvP too but not sop much in an assassin style - it can be nice in melee linked with things like fear and caltrops simply to quickly drain stamina from those pesky DKs.

I see. ya I have not used flurry on pve in awhile so I really wasnt sure on that. it still seems to have a limited use in pvp. perhaps a a change in the rapid strikes morph than as opposed to blinding flurry. (i am assuming you use the blinding flurry morph in pvp. please correct me if im wrong.) I mean they changed the NB morph that gave more attack spped and I have never seen anyone use the increased attack speed trait for weapon. SO it would seem ppl dont really care for the increased attack speed as much. Again, maybe im wrong.

tino.antoninieb17_ESO

bowmanz607 wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

@bowmanz607‌ - Flurry is actually one of the best dps skills for PvE stamina NB builds, with the right armour/jewellery/support skills it can give good sustained damage sufficient for trials/DSA.

I do use it in PvP too but not sop much in an assassin style - it can be nice in melee linked with things like fear and caltrops simply to quickly drain stamina from those pesky DKs.

I see. ya I have not used flurry on pve in awhile so I really wasnt sure on that. it still seems to have a limited use in pvp. perhaps a a change in the rapid strikes morph than as opposed to blinding flurry. (i am assuming you use the blinding flurry morph in pvp. please correct me if im wrong.) I mean they changed the NB morph that gave more attack spped and I have never seen anyone use the increased attack speed trait for weapon. SO it would seem ppl dont really care for the increased attack speed as much. Again, maybe im wrong.

Flurry is one of main reasons why stamina nb do well in pve (2k damage per 1.3 secs and that is around 1,5 dps) with best ratio stamina/damage. Flying blade is best dw skill when it comes to pvp and dw.

bowmanz607

which morph do u use though?