Grim Focus (Haste replacement) Opinions?

KenCleanAirSystem

What does everyone think of this 'new' NB skill? I kept mine morphed the same as I had with Haste (Focused Attacks), which is now called 'Relentless Focus'. So far, with a bit of trial I am quite underwhelmed with this ability ... It is a decent buff, and certainly more useful than Focused Attacks was, but there are a couple annoying issues I've noticed.

First off, this ability needs a visual cue ... Right now, at least with Relentless Focus, the FX play when you activate it, but there is nothing to tell when the duration has expired. The other major issue I have is the special ability that activates after so many attacks ... Unless you use nothing but light/heavy attacks you will almost never see this come up. Use class/weapon abilities and there is no way you are getting 8 heavy or light attacks in during the duration ... Also, sometimes when it finally does activate, it disappears before you get the chance to use the ability.

Anyone else have similar or different experience with this skill yet?

Wahee

From my post on the skill. It is cool for PvE, useless in PvP because of either an oversight or poor skill design.

Wahee wrote: »

Grim focus replaces haste and procs a large hit (bigger than snipe) after 8 light or heavy attacks.

There is a huge problem with this skill in pvp though. Light/heavy attacks against enemies that use damage shields do not count towards the 8 count if they do not break the shield and land actual damage. I spent several hours dueling and against opponents that stack shields i was unable to ever get grim focus to proc over the course of a 1-2 minute fight. In my hours of dueling I never once got grim focus to proc against any opponent that used a damage shield, and I was intentionally trying to get it to proc.

Shields are extremely popular in pvp and light attacks will almost never do enough damage to drop the shield and cause any damage. You might get a few actual damaging hits in, but not 8 in the 20 second time window.

TLDR: Grim focus is worthless in PvP against anyone using a damage shield, which is almost everyone.

kaorunandrak

So far in my test's it has fired off fine and hit like a truck and I am not a magicka build. Some visual ques might be more beneficial so your not having to micro manage it like a progressive aura on your hands or something that intensifies as you build charge or something. I'll test more and see if I can't duplicate your issue I think maybe a 5 second duration increase wouldn't be to far out of line to request.

colinburke85

They need to make it so if you re-cast the ability, it doesn't reset the attack counter.

for example: you attack with light attacks 7 times. The time on the buff is about to expire, so you recast it. The attack count goes back to zero.

My thoughts isn't increase the time. its:

1.) allow you to recast without resetting the attack count.

2.) Add a visual effect to allow the player to know the skill is active or inactive. For example: lets say your hands glow red while its active, then when you attack attack 8 times your hands change blue in order to show you've reached 8+ attacks.

Zenimax said they didn't want us staring at UI. With this ability you HAVE to stare at it as to not miss your opportunity.

F7sus4

Grim Focus is a complete mistake. Jeckll's post on Haste sums it up in a brilliant way - link:

Well, Haste was one of the most important Skills in any PvE build so far, so I dont see how changing it was “listening to the player base”. In fact, by saying it was never useful or powerful due to LA weaving, they revealed that they’re not listening, reading or understanding their game

(...) I like the general philosophy of reworking skills that are bad or rarely used but Haste was great the way it was.

kaorunandrak

Or they could make it useable after 3-4 charges but for a weaker attack for those people having trouble doing the full 8 so it would go, apply grim focus, LA, LA, LA, LA, you can use the ability but it does half the damage it should or you can do another four LA and get the full max damage attack.

xaraan

Feel much the same as you do. Mostly underwhelmed. Better than Haste I guess with the damage buff, but I do hardly get to use the spectral bow before fight's over and hard to tell when it goes off animation wise, especially when I'm already on a bow -- I thought there would be a fancier animation. Mostly it seems like the type of power that would be good in a boss fight and pretty much only good for buff in small trash fights - which is ok with me.

Feels like it goes away when the battle ends, so if you go from one pull to the next, you have to recast it. Which is annoying sometimes, but not the end of the world.

kaorunandrak

Again I would like to state I haven't had any issues with it, however just cause I haven't doesn't mean I don't understand there are those people who don't have the reflex/internet connection, understanding , or some how always get bugged and there for can't use the skill. Just trying to be helpful.

Cody

I don't know if I've ever even used the spectral bow:( there is no cue for it, far as I can tell.

its fine though, they have time to fix it. I plan to make a Templar when 1.6 launches anyway(some Templar kicked my a** about 7 times in a row today and I am going to replicate his build:D)

DDuke

Wahee wrote: »

From my post on the skill. It is cool for PvE, useless in PvP because of either an oversight or poor skill design.

Wahee wrote: »

Grim focus replaces haste and procs a large hit (bigger than snipe) after 8 light or heavy attacks.

There is a huge problem with this skill in pvp though. Light/heavy attacks against enemies that use damage shields do not count towards the 8 count if they do not break the shield and land actual damage. I spent several hours dueling and against opponents that stack shields i was unable to ever get grim focus to proc over the course of a 1-2 minute fight. In my hours of dueling I never once got grim focus to proc against any opponent that used a damage shield, and I was intentionally trying to get it to proc.

Shields are extremely popular in pvp and light attacks will almost never do enough damage to drop the shield and cause any damage. You might get a few actual damaging hits in, but not 8 in the 20 second time window.

TLDR: Grim focus is worthless in PvP against anyone using a damage shield, which is almost everyone.

Another awesome sounding skill ruined by damage shields.

ZOS, when are you going to fix this?

TheBull

You guys are spot on. It needs a visual queue, and it either needs a much longer duration if not toggle, or the light and heavy attacks need to carry over when refreshed. Without attention to both of these areas, even though I want to, I wont be able to put it on my bar.

Carnophobe

Jeckll's quote above, posted by F7sus4, says it all for me really. No idea why light attack weaving makes haste and its morphs useless, or why the developers thought so. There is no situation in PvE (I haven't PvPed much so I haven't really developed a build there) in which my Stamina based Nightblade doesn't use Focused Attacks (Haste morph). Grim Focus on the other hand, I'm not particularly a fan of the mechanics or the animation.

aco5712

needs a stamina morph imo. The stam regen morph should be stamina based so it can do more dmg as a stam player. Needs visual cues, needs a counter, needs to be reworked in general. Nice idea though.

decado0024_ESO

kaorunandrak wrote: »

Again I would like to state I haven't had any issues with it, however just cause I haven't doesn't mean I don't understand there are those people who don't have the reflex/internet connection, understanding , or some how always get bugged and there for can't use the skill. Just trying to be helpful.

Have you PVPed with it if so and you say you have no problems i'm calling you out.
1. 8 light attacks in pvp is next to impossible.
2. attacks do not count if opponent is shielded
3. IF you get off 8 atks and IF you still have time avail to use the added effect it is weak and if they get smart and shield it does nothing.

Just another example of how ZOS CANT fix anything. Give nightblades 2 new skills that dont work, and then make shields the new game meta oh yea but nightblades are the only class without class shields.

Orihara_Izaya

Agreed, it needs a rework.

Increase duration, reduce amounts of hits required, allow it to continue after combat ends, visual ques, let us build charges on barriers. SOMETHING

Seriously, this skill is next to useless unless your in PvE.

Darkintellect

Very poor change to an ability which didn't really improve with the change.

I would say, remove the fear from using it with melee weapons and let it summon 2 bladed shadows that Ambush the target. Then make the ranged ability cast automatically instead of having to reclick the button after you count to the number 8 every single time.

Overall, just a poor redesign of an ability that wasn't broken.

TheBucket

I woukd rather have haste back and replace Agony with Grim Focus

kaorunandrak

decado0024_ESO wrote: »

kaorunandrak wrote: »

Again I would like to state I haven't had any issues with it, however just cause I haven't doesn't mean I don't understand there are those people who don't have the reflex/internet connection, understanding , or some how always get bugged and there for can't use the skill. Just trying to be helpful.

Have you PVPed with it if so and you say you have no problems i'm calling you out.
1. 8 light attacks in pvp is next to impossible.
2. attacks do not count if opponent is shielded
3. IF you get off 8 atks and IF you still have time avail to use the added effect it is weak and if they get smart and shield it does nothing.

Just another example of how ZOS CANT fix anything. Give nightblades 2 new skills that dont work, and then make shields the new game meta oh yea but nightblades are the only class without class shields.

Thanks for calling me out? If you look two(?) posts up from the one you quoted I made a suggestion on how to fix it. And like I said just cause I haven't had issues with it doesn't mean there are people who do. So calm down, I'm not against buffing the skill that's the point of testing this is only week one, and no I haven't tested it in PVP I never said I did. And don't worry I know about the shields, on the night blade thread most of us went to it was pointed out about the HP shields not procing the Bow strike.

However I understand where the devs are coming from a lot of us NB's have complained about not having a true burst damage skill and they tried giving us one. So calm down and make some suggestions on how to fix it. Calling people out and saying ZOS can't fix anything isn't helpful..at all.

Beleron

I would have ratherd grim focus be a MORPH. I liked haste.

helediron

It is too complicated now and eight attack buildup is too long. Needing two casts for the big hit halves it's value. It needs to be changed so i can use it in rotation, like in my build: five funnels and sixth cast gives the hit, repeatedly, reliably. It needs to buff funnels and hit at least as hard as funnel to be of any use. I mean it has nice effects and all, and it's rather sad for devs to see it turned down. But now it just doesn't increase DPS.

AssaultLemming

This should work well on my magicka nb because I was always weaving light attacks with funnel health anyway, looking forward to trying it out, I only play PvE so the damage shield nerf doesn't effect me.

nilldax

Grim Focus compared to Haste is useless even in PvE. I plays mostly in PvP and Haste was working well with bow or staff (and awesomely with duals) - 30% speed increase with light and heavy attacks. Much better is morph (called "Incapacitate") of Haste - still 30% speed for attack and increased damage from heavy attacks for 12% + what is very important, every 7th weapon attack (lvl 4), which counts on every hit, immobilizes target for 2 sec... great for catching running sorcs

LilChihuahua

My main issue with it is...

-Hard to track if it is still active and when the spectre bow is ready.
-Both morphs are still only using light / heavy attacks
-You can't refresh the duration without resetting the attack counter

It's a skill I'd only use in a supportive ranger dps build for PvP. Spaming venom arrow + animation cancelling is probably the best way to utilize this ability.

DeLindsay

Wahee wrote: »

It is cool for PvE, useless in PvP because of either an oversight or poor skill design.

This, I think it needs some tweaks:

• Make it a Toggle like Siphoning Attacks.
• Give it a charge counter so we know how many attacks we're at.
• Allow it to still charge when hitting a Shield in PvP.
• Drop the total required charges from 8 to 6 so it can more easily be used twice for it's duration (if they don't make it a toggle).

Other than what's listed above it's a pretty decent ability. Some players don't even realize it gives a passive 8% damage increase while active, which replaces Flawless Dawnbreaker for Magicka DPS builds (FD no longer gives Magicka users a damage increase). It also gives a 10% Stamina regen for the more popular morph.

Seraphyel

They have to change some things to make the skill good:

* Reduce needed attack number

* Increase duration or make it a toggle

* Increase the damage when you keep the number of attacks

* VISUALS!!!

Right now it's not worth wasting a slot for it.

AssaultLemming wrote: »

This should work well on my magicka nb because I was always weaving light attacks with funnel health anyway, looking forward to trying it out, I only play PvE so the damage shield nerf doesn't effect me.

It won't work when you weave, the attack counter is too high and the duration too short.

frould

Need some buff such as after using the spectral bow increase duration by x seconds.

Helluin

Seraphyel wrote: »

They have to change some things to make the skill good:

* Reduce needed attack number

* Increase duration or make it a toggle

* Increase the damage when you keep the number of attacks

* VISUALS!!!

Right now it's not worth wasting a slot for it.

AssaultLemming wrote: »

This should work well on my magicka nb because I was always weaving light attacks with funnel health anyway, looking forward to trying it out, I only play PvE so the damage shield nerf doesn't effect me.

It won't work when you weave, the attack counter is too high and the duration too short.

I agree: it would work a lot better with less attacks or a longer buff duration and visual effect should be improved - changed.

Toggle ability: doing so it would require to slot it on two bars, I'd prefer it as it is but with a changement on duration or number of attacks.

Nacario

But its 8 light attacks, that takes ages in pvp, i dont know of anyone who would play around this skill.. like to depend on its boom to play its significant part during combat.

And vs mobs theres no point as it takes to long to proc it, id rather use other attacks that can 2 3 shot the mob. The way I see it is a decent filler during lenghtier fights such as boss battles.

Haste was better.

Soulac

1 Skill Slot for ~7k-9k dmg after 8 Light/Heavy Attacks..
Even with 4 Light / Heavy Attacks it's not worth it, at least not in PvP.
Everyone spam shields and attacks doesn't even count and if they do, the attack get absorbed by a Shield.

- Let it ignore shields, only Magicka based shields or implement a Stamina morph with physical dmg to ignore Harness at least
- increase dmg quit a bit
- count attacks on shields too
- reduce amount of attacks needed to ~5-6 or let it count normal skills too

The Skill isn't wort a slot at the moment, the morphs are crap and other abilitys dealing the same dmg without 'loading'..

DeLindsay

Soulac wrote: »

1 Skill Slot for ~7k-9k dmg after 8 Light/Heavy Attacks..

??? You're doing it wrong if it only hits for 7-9K. My lowest hit was just over 19K and my highest was over 21K with a Magicka build.

Suntzu1414

decado0024_ESO wrote: »

kaorunandrak wrote: »

Again I would like to state I haven't had any issues with it, however just cause I haven't doesn't mean I don't understand there are those people who don't have the reflex/internet connection, understanding , or some how always get bugged and there for can't use the skill. Just trying to be helpful.

Have you PVPed with it if so and you say you have no problems i'm calling you out.
1. 8 light attacks in pvp is next to impossible.
2. attacks do not count if opponent is shielded
3. IF you get off 8 atks and IF you still have time avail to use the added effect it is weak and if they get smart and shield it does nothing.

Just another example of how ZOS CANT fix anything. Give nightblades 2 new skills that dont work, and then make shields the new game meta oh yea but nightblades are the only class without class shields.

cannot agree more...

Kill Well
ST