PTS 1.6 Provisioning Changes

LMar

I would think that important feedback for provisioning would be not to veer off the lore too much. Items such as moon sugar, sweetrolls, etc. are very important and shouldn't be removed. Items such as acai berries or tacos just seem weird... What's wrong with using some equivalent berries from the TES world (plenty of those!).

And Khajiit are gonna be very disappointed if all the moon sugar goes away

Pretty please developers?

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

SantieClaws

This khajiit feels a little victimised in this update. You take away my fishy sticks and my sugar biscuits? How can you do this to this one!!

wenchmore420b14_ESO

MissBizz wrote: »

All done today's shoe, sorry guys I was nervous and it seemed boring to go through every little thing. I'll be streaming my more usual playstyle tomorrow and will write up my report later on how I feel about everything.

Was a good show! Thank you for "going through every little thing". I play PTS too, but watching someone else was enlightening. You covered lots of changes and brought up good points of the "Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" of 1.6.
Good job!~

AlnilamE

I ran a comparison of how many recipes of which kind/level my provisioner knows in the PTS versus the live server.



So green recipes seem to be translating perfectly.

For the blue recipes, I found that my level 10 and 15 Health+Stamina food recipes translate to 10 and 15 Health+Magicka, and I apparently know a level 45 Magicka+Stamina drink recipe on the PTS where I don't know any on live.

The Purple recipes seem to be confused.

For food, I know a level 35, a level 45 a level 50 and 3 V5 recipes on live.

On the PTS, I know 1 level 40, 3 V5 and 2 V10. So that makes me think the level 40 and 50 turned into the V10 recipes?

For drinks I know a level 50 purple and three V5 purples, and that seems to translate well into a V1, a V5 and 2 V10s.

Has anyone else noticed stuff like this?

QuadroTony

nice speedsheet!!

btw what about Suet? its OLD or not?
and Caramalt

MissBizz

Suet is old for sure. I updated the spreadsheet a bit more at lunch.

I thought caramalt was on there, guess not. I still have lots more to transfer to that sheet. My guess would be it will be old as the other malts seemed to turn old

MissBizz

@AlnilamE‌ I was working at lunch on copying down all my known recipes. I accidently took screenshots of only the ones I had ingredients for. I'll look into the transition of blue and purple tonight. I have read elsewhere in the forums about the weird lvl50 becoming vr10

Kalman

It is easy to make a conversion list using Crafting Material Level Display Updated Addon. The tooltips on PTS are the same as on Live for the corresponding item ids.

MissBizz

Kalman wrote: »

It is easy to make a conversion list using Crafting Material Level Display Updated Addon. The tooltips on PTS are the same as on Live for the corresponding item ids.

So are you saying I would mouse over a new recipe and in the tooltip it would show me the old (live) name? Same for ingredients? If so that is AMAZING!

Kalman

Not the old name but the level it used for, if it extra ingredient for blue/purple etc. That added with counts I was able to translate everything i had in my inventories.

MissBizz

I used counts but with the glitch of losing a whole bunch of my inventory it didn't work as well as I had hoped. If you have anything you can add to the spreadsheet feel free to comment on it!

Kalman

I'll look again at my list when I get home.

Kalman

Added notes to your google doc

Hawk269

MissBizz wrote: »

Stonesthrow wrote: »

Tomatoes that you already have turn into Frost Miriam, but Goat Meat that you already have now turns into Tomatoes.

Puzzler.

A few others do that as well.

I think its because they wanted to retain the rarity of tomatoes, since tomatoes in the new recipes is a common ingredient

Yeah, I found several tomatoes just playing through the new tutorial portion of the game last night. I am still a low level in the main game, so have not got into crafting that much, but I have always heard Tomatoes were a big value item, so when I found a few in the tutorial, I kind of knew they made some big changes.

MissBizz

Alright heading off to go stream some more, thanks to the suggestion of that add-on and something else figured out.. we should be able to learn a lot more today!

Faunter

I made a complete list of all the converted ingredients.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/149061/

EvilEmpire

Mix wrote: »

Also, the carrots on live with the icon of 3 carrots (very rare item to pick up off of carrots laying around in the world do not seem to be usable in the new system either.

That's a bummer because I have been saving carrots since the beginning of the game because I figured they would actually get used for something. I've got about a stack and half horded away

SantieClaws

Something else I came across last night that might be an issue if you decide you want to start levelling provisioning at level 30 or something.

Green recipes do seem to drop from mobs but mobs don't drop any loot at all once you are so many levels past them. Therefore if you wanted to start levelling provisioning at a higher level the only way to get basic green recipes would be to buy them from another player - bearing in mind they will need them to and be finding them harder to get as well.

angelyn

Was I the only person that got the impression from this, that our ingredients being completely removed from the game were supposed to have reimbursements to the equivalent value of what they would have sold for on the GUILDSTORE and not a paltry 10g each at a vendor? If I got the wrong impression that's fine. I suspect quite a few people will be out of pocket though as many ingredients are now no longer in use,were not converted to anything else and 10g is no where near what some people would have payed for these ingredients.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/146599/official-discussion-thread-for-update-6-guide-provisioning/p2

MSchroeder wrote: »

1. “What happens to all of my ingredients? How do I get new ingredients I might need?”

Some ingredients will be marked as “Old”. They will no longer be used in Provisioning. However, we’ve set their value to be the same as the price of buying a new ingredient. Grocers will be selling ALL non-rare ingredients, so visiting one is recommended as a one-stop shop for your Provisioning needs. Further, Chefs will be selling all non-rare Food ingredients, and Brewers will be selling all non-rare Drink ingredients. We'll be monitoring the price of player-sold Provisioning items, as well as feedback on this and other forums, to see if and when this pricing schema should change.

Suggestion- Give people average price in player guildstores for ingredients instead of 10g . *Note, this average should be from before PTS hit as now prices will be falling with players trying to sell off soon to be worthless ingredients.

Theegoliath

I seemed to find a recipe in every house I broke into last night on the pts. Break in, kill ocupants, raid all opjects and would seem to get at least one recipe.

Ourorboros

Suggestion- Give people average price in player guildstores for ingredients instead of 10g . *Note, this average should be from before PTS hit as now prices will be falling with players trying to sell off soon to be worthless ingredients.

This would be nice, but never gonna happen, nor should it. Guild stores are all about player interaction, not part of game mechanic other than being made available. At least you know in advance about provisioning changes, and can take action now. I think 10g per old food is much more than you would get from selling to a vendor now. ZO$ is at least providing some compensation, not just getting rid of old foods.

Stonesthrow

angelyn wrote: »

Was I the only person that got the impression from this, that our ingredients being completely removed from the game were supposed to have reimbursements to the equivalent value of what they would have sold for on the GUILDSTORE and not a paltry 10g each at a vendor? If I got the wrong impression that's fine. I suspect quite a few people will be out of pocket though as many ingredients are now no longer in use,were not converted to anything else and 10g is no where near what some people would have payed for these ingredients.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/146599/official-discussion-thread-for-update-6-guide-provisioning/p2

MSchroeder wrote: »

1. “What happens to all of my ingredients? How do I get new ingredients I might need?”

Some ingredients will be marked as “Old”. They will no longer be used in Provisioning. However, we’ve set their value to be the same as the price of buying a new ingredient. Grocers will be selling ALL non-rare ingredients, so visiting one is recommended as a one-stop shop for your Provisioning needs. Further, Chefs will be selling all non-rare Food ingredients, and Brewers will be selling all non-rare Drink ingredients. We'll be monitoring the price of player-sold Provisioning items, as well as feedback on this and other forums, to see if and when this pricing schema should change.

Suggestion- Give people average price in player guildstores for ingredients instead of 10g . *Note, this average should be from before PTS hit as now prices will be falling with players trying to sell off soon to be worthless ingredients.

The 10g they are and were talking about is to BUY the replacement matt from the Grocer Vendor, nothing was ever mentioned to do with Guild Store pricing. And 10g for a lot of those matts is awesome, since they are worth 0 now…

All but the rare matts are now at the Grocer for 10g a pop, so you don't even have to steal anything in 1.6

The only one that bugged me was my 250 pepper, which will go old, so I made 1000 Honey Brittle last night. Since it is VR10 food in 1.6, should hold me for a few…

Recipes convert, created food converts, just use up all the matts you are worried about getting screwed on.

angelyn

Stonesthrow wrote: »

The only one that bugged me was my 250 pepper, which will go old, so I made 1000 Honey Brittle last night. Since it is VR10 food in 1.6, should hold me for a few…

^^This

Alphashado

So has anyone found Frost Mirriam anywhere besides Hireling mail and Crafting Writs? I think it's kinda crazy that they would make one single ingredient so singularly important.

Unless I am mistaken, isn't it the only ingredient that is required in EVERY purple food in 1.6? That is going to put it in extremely high demand. Even more so than Tomatoes on the live server because you could still make purple buff food w/o tomatoes.

I've been on the PTS every day since it went live with 1.6 and my hirelings haven't brought me one single Frost Mirriam yet. I see this being a major issue. basically you cannot make ANY purple food w/o it. This stuff is going to be more valuable than gold.

Unless of course this is all according to plan so they can sell it on the Crown Store.

Oliviax

MissBizz wrote: »

This is very true. Part of my testing will include trying to level up one of my characters that currently doesn't do any provisioning. I'll be evaluating how easy it is to level up, this includes finding recipes and their claim of how at any time I should have stock to cook up some items. I believe we are just used to looting in town. Out in the wild there should still enough "furniture" to find recipes at a decent pace. As well, if recipes do end up being a lot harder to squire this may help boost the low prices of recipes.

I started a new character and decided to level up provisioning from scratch. After doing the provisioning quest from the quest giver to enable the writs. I went to the board and checked the recipes ( which I don't have)
My opinion on this system I'd that if you are expected to make specific items of food and drink. The recipes of these items should be available from the provisioning vendors. The rewards for completing the writs I would expect to be green recipes (giving higher bonuses than the writ food and drink recipes) as well as the chance of blue or purple recipes.

I don't think we should be expected to steal the recipes or trawl through every guild store to find them if they are a part of the crafting writ requirements.

Any other recipes should be harder to acquire.

Mix

@oliviax I agree, it is quite frustrating to not be able to do a writ because you don't have the recipes (yet). On Live the writs choose from a very small pool of green recipes at low level, I think we should be able to purchase from a vendor or do a quest for the prov certifier and learn the ones we need

For the Provisioning Meat ingredients, I went on a critter killing spree to determine what types of animals drop each type of meat. I have been seriously looking at the naming/ingredients that may be lore-breaking with this prov update. I have most recipes but not all, would love for anyone who sees conflict in the following to let me know:)

*small game: rabbit, fox, snake (no recipes say fox or snake in name)
*game: deer, camel, goat, sheep, antelope(I think mutton/sheep is the only one left out)
*White meat: Pony guar, daggerback (boar), pig, monkey (pony guar is left out of names)
*red meat: cow (mammoth and wamasu are mentioned in recipe names but I don't think they drop the meat)
*poultry: bantam guar, chicken, fellrunner (other types of fowl are named such as parrot, peacock and duck. Parrot I think is fine as there are parrots in game, but i don't recall any ducks or peacocks. There are crows/ravens, seagulls, falcons, owls, various songbirds, vulture/buzzard/condor...)
fish: trodh, slaughterfish, salmon, river betty, spadetail, silverside perch, dhufish, longfin (cod, trout, sole, oysters and abecean longfin are named, oysters and abecean I think are fine, but why cod/trout/sole when you haven't used the fish you are actually filleting for naming!)

Fruits: apple, banana, jazbay grape, tomato, melon, pumpkin
Bananas are new to TES but I think that is fine

Vegetables: potato, beets, greens, radish, carrot, corn
Beets are new, I think they could be replaced with Ash Yams

Additives: flour, seasoning, saltrice, garlic, millet, cheese
Millet could be turned to moonsugar:)

Alcohol: wheat, yeast, rice, surilie grapes, rye, barley
rye and yeast are new i think, but also seem to fit

Tea: Jasmine, mint, lotus, bittergreen, rose, comberry
bittergreen is poisonous I believe (Game at Dinner book)
jasmine, mint, rose are new to TES. There were lotus flowers in Oblivion, but there a lot of things jasmine, mint and rose could be named instead such as canis root (canis root tea dammit!), lavender, nightshade, elves ear, primrose, redwort, etc (choosing from ingredients for alchemy seen in TES games)

Tonic: ginkgo, ginseng, coffee, yerba mate, acai berry, guarana
coffee, yerba mate, acai berry and guarana are new and i don't find them that lore friendly. Blackberries, strawberries should be used. (maybe canis root should go here, maybe canis root is like coffee and that is why Neloth is so picky about it). I had to google Yerba Mate...

Additives: honey, metheglin, lemon, isinglass, seaweed, ginger
ginger isn't in TES but there are a variety of other roots (mandrake, corkbulb) i don't find ginger far fetched.
Metheglin and Isinglass....these should change to anything else, preferably something already know to TES universe.

Curious on what everyone thinks about these things:)

SantieClaws

When we have so many lovely food ingredients within the ES world then why are we not using more of those? Where are my corkbulbs and ash yams?

angelyn

wenxue2222b16_ESO wrote: »

This khajiit feels a little victimised in this update. You take away my fishy sticks and my sugar biscuits? How can you do this to this one!!

Fear not @Wenxue2222b16_ESO ...I think moonsugar may still be in the game..as..seasoning?:

Also there is something here for me!

angelyn

For those wondering about 10g for old ingredients. I did a comparison exercise in this thread to see how much 10g was to the average player price for same ingredient.

Summary below but rest is in original thread.
MY INGREDIENT INVENTORY
• 47 ingredient types turn old
• 2733 individual ingredients turn old
• Is worth 268778g according to Price Tracker
• Is worth 54790.4g according to Shopkeeper
• Is worth 27330g according to 10g each from ZOS

ZOS VALUE OF MY INGREDIENT INVENTORY OF 10G EACH IS:
• 241448g less than Price Tracker
• 27460.4 less than Shopkeeper
• Equivalent to 10.1682% of Price Tracker Value
• Equivalent to 49.8810% of Shopkeeper Value

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Bel_Shezzar wrote: »

Sweetrolls aren't removed. They're just different now.

There are recipes that suggest moon sugar as an ingredient. However, for universality's sake we elected to have it be one of the many "invisible" ingredients as far as Provisioning is concerned - like salt, pepper, or yeast in the updated paradigm.

Ok. I was gonna wait and post a pro/con feed back later, but I have to get this off my chest first.
On a positive note, I cut my inventory in half with your new provisioning changes and the new categorizing of recipes is much better. Making drinks more effective is long over due and great. After that, new provisioning changes with the recipe names and ingredients are completely Lore and Immersion breaking to the point of being FUBAR.
A few case in points:
Melon-Chevre Salad? Oyster-Tomato Orzo? Riverhold Beef Tacos?
TACOS!!!!.. These recipes don't belong in ANY fantasy realm!!
You have Cliff Racer Ragout, but there are no Cliff Racers!! And it's made from poultry not Racer Plums! Would you go to a restaurant and order Ostrich and be happy when you got turkey?
I went back and looked at the available ingredients in Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim. There is such a massive amount of lore friendly stuff and still you replaced Moon Sugar with beets!!! (At least Fish Sticks are made from fish now and not crab!!!! LOL)
I am a professional chef in real life. To come home after 10 hrs in a kitchen, relax with my dark elf rouge-mage, who has a back story going back to "The Battle of Red Mountain", and have him make the same thing I made all day in real world? (Except Tacos. I'm a fine dinning chef and even I don't do TACOS!!!
Not in Tamriel, Krynn, 7 Kingdoms or Dorn, Midkemia, Pern, Shannara or Middle Earth should or would these recipes be found.
Ingredients are now mundane and boring. No Kwama eggs, scrib jelly, moon sugar,etc.
It just saddens me that I can do fantasy food in the real world,(i.e. A Fire and Ice Wine Dinner, Bilbo's Birthday Feast w/ Food from Middle Earth), better than you are in our fantasy world.
You have done an amazing job with this game and I love it so much. 1.6 is going to be amazing!! But I feel you dropped the ball badly on this though. Was Lord Lawrence the Loremaster on vacation? lol... Thank you for allowing me this feed back and I leave you with these words of wisdom..

"M'aiq wishes he had a stick made out of fishies to give you, sadly, he does not......"