Does anyone else realize what tamriel unlimited means?

WatchYourSixx

So many of you have dissected the new business model that ZoS had announced for their game. Do you realize that the game is the EXACT same as it was before if you stay subscribed? The elder scrolls online that we know and love despite the issues is getting better. We'll have more choices for mounts, costumes, and maybe even a pet or two. In theory, many more players will join, and I can't see how more people playing this game can make it work. I may be in the minority here, but I was one mad at ZoS for doing this too. However, I believe that more players and growing the game as a good thing. I believe ZoS will keep the cash shop from going p2w. I might be the only one who believes this is a great change for a game that needs to grow. I hope that the reason for such delays on new content is from the console release and business model change. I look forward to the road ahead in the coming year. Sure, there are bad things that come with being B2P. Howeverthat like to point out that being subscription only isn't all cherries and whipped cream either. There are some messed up people in this world, and I can assure you the business model doesn't affect that.

/rantover

Pendrillion

I agree. What I find dubious though is the intransparency how changes were announced and that they promised something the one way and didn't live up to those promises, and tryed to cover their tracks instead of just standing up and saying: "Damn folks it didn't turn out how we have planned. Bummer. But we offer you some new incentive. Appologies!"

Instead they kind of blamed it on us players by saying: "It was what YOU wanted!" They really tried to be upbeat about something that was visibly sticking down in their own throats.

Other than that you are absolutely right!

It doesn't change much. Except that the pace plans about new Zones has been postponed. That is what disappointed me the most. But I still love the game.

Pete Hines should really think about this as a PR disaster. It could have been handled better, and without that much loss of credibility and face. Because as customer, this is what makes me stick to a product they are selling. Credibility. And the thought that the Company produces FOR their customers. I refuse to be just a piece of demographic analysis, to be cashed in.

Also possible that I am old fashioned, uninformed and not on the height of business in the 21st Century...

Also admittably I still am playing.

jeevin

Everyone wants more players in the game and the game to be successful. But given the history of most games that have switched from subscription to btp, it's all down hill from here. Everyone here knows that there is a possibility that btp will
help the game. And it may make it worse like it has for many others.

On the other hand most people that have been here from the start know that ESO has been mismanaged from the beginning and should never have need to resort to btp or freemium. That's what *** me the most.

Carina

mbmcdaniel42_ESO wrote: »

So many of you have dissected the new business model that ZoS had announced for their game. Do you realize that the game is the EXACT same as it was before if you stay subscribed? The elder scrolls online that we know and love despite the issues is getting better. We'll have more choices for mounts, costumes, and maybe even a pet or two. In theory, many more players will join, and I can't see how more people playing this game can make it work. I may be in the minority here, but I was one mad at ZoS for doing this too. However, I believe that more players and growing the game as a good thing. I believe ZoS will keep the cash shop from going p2w. I might be the only one who believes this is a great change for a game that needs to grow. I hope that the reason for such delays on new content is from the console release and business model change. I look forward to the road ahead in the coming year. Sure, there are bad things that come with being B2P. Howeverthat like to point out that being subscription only isn't all cherries and whipped cream either. There are some messed up people in this world, and I can assure you the business model doesn't affect that.

/rantover

I have to agree with you. There seems to be a whole lot of irrational hatred aimed towards this game right now, especially from what I am reading on the forums. Personally, I have a wait-and-see attitude towards it all. The game isn't even a year old. Give it time to evolve. The MMO market is vastly different than it was just a few years ago, and businesses have to adapt to the changing needs. Very few MMO's retain the subscription model now. As long as Zenimax don't make this a P2W game, have regular updates and patches, and listen to constructive feedback, I don't see how the switch to the B2P model is being a bad thing.

WatchYourSixx

Yeah I'll agree with you that it was mishandled from the beginning @jeevin‌ . Also very disappointed I won't be getting a reward for only missing a month of subscription but I've been here since September 2013. Beta testing, bug reporting, bot reporting, etc.

Jroc

Sure if everything turns out how it is planned it will likely be fine. But if everything turned out the way it should have in the first place we wouldn't be in this predicament t begin with.

OrangeTheCat

OP, you keep saying "believe" which is a bit ironic. Many of us who have subscribed since beta and who put up with the bugs that never got fixed and crappy performance continued to sub because we believed by doing so these things would get addressed in a timely manner long before b2p/f2p came around. Same for thieves guild, justice system, etc, then later removal of the horrid VRs. ZOS can string us along only so long and some of us aren't going to get fleeced any more. The fact that 'nothing has changed' is precisely the point OP.

Psychobunni

OP- "right now" they* say that subs will have all access. Except some of the things they have said's wording can be open to interpretation.

Long story short, is nothing they say, promise, claim they intend, w/e is worth a pile of skeever dung at this point to the pc crowd. Those that choose to stay at this point are all in the same "wait and see how bad it turns out" boat.

It would probably be more helpful if people stopped making repetitive threads that really say nothing more than the other 600 threads on the subject, somehow thinking that their little snowflake is more special than the 600 before them. (imo)

Vizier

It doesn't change much.....yet.

A year down the road...that's an entirely different matter.

Once they start manipulating in game exchange and drop rates to push folks to the store for things players should ostensibly be getting in game...(shakes head)

raglau

In theory yes, but ZOS have proved to be a highly dishonest outfit...

olemanwinter

Of course you are right, but the problem comes from the idea of subscribing to a game with very slow or virtually no updates. So that's different.

Tandor

It's definitely a positive move in my view, albeit one that could have been handled better. Then again, a lot of the reaction to it could have been handled better too.

Gidorick

I think the way the change was handled is more than issue that the change is coming.

WatchYourSixx

olemanwinter wrote: »

Of course you are right, but the problem comes from the idea of subscribing to a game with very slow or virtually no updates. So that's different.

I guess that boils down to why you are subscribing in the first place. I played WoW from late bc, wotlk, cata, and most of mop, but they didn't release content near as fast as ESO has over the past year. Yet that game still has millions of subscribers. There are millions of players that sit around in trade chat just talking every day. They pay a subscription for that. So again, I think it really boils down to why you subscribe to play. In ESO's case, if you want the same game you've been playing with new things, stay subscribed. If you want to play the same game without new things, don't subscribe. The way I see it, this change is basically like a hyped up trial version of eso, where you can pay micro transactions to enjoy the new stuff. But it's just my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt.

@Psychobunni‌ , I don't agree with you about the repetitive posts. Everyone should be able to voice their opinions. I think it's better to have 600 posts saying the same thing, than one post with 600 comments. Most posts about this same topic are from different people. Granted, I haven't checked that, but I would assume a new post about the same topic is from a different perspective. They aren't ALL the same. And I think it's healthy for a community to discuss their opinions. You are entitled to skip it.

daemonios

mbmcdaniel42_ESO wrote: »

So many of you have dissected the new business model that ZoS had announced for their game. Do you realize that the game is the EXACT same as it was before if you stay subscribed? The elder scrolls online that we know and love despite the issues is getting better. We'll have more choices for mounts, costumes, and maybe even a pet or two. In theory, many more players will join, and I can't see how more people playing this game can make it work. I may be in the minority here, but I was one mad at ZoS for doing this too. However, I believe that more players and growing the game as a good thing. I believe ZoS will keep the cash shop from going p2w. I might be the only one who believes this is a great change for a game that needs to grow. I hope that the reason for such delays on new content is from the console release and business model change. I look forward to the road ahead in the coming year. Sure, there are bad things that come with being B2P. Howeverthat like to point out that being subscription only isn't all cherries and whipped cream either. There are some messed up people in this world, and I can assure you the business model doesn't affect that.

/rantover

No, it is *not* getting better. The game is good, but it's far from perfect. As a subscription service, we were entitled to demand that ZOS fix the ongoing issues. That will be gone when a good part of the player base stops being a subscriber, and those that remain do it by choice, not because it's mandatory.

In addition, I seriously doubt they'll be able to resist the cash cow of lottery / P2W items in the cash shop.

Paske

This would be the first MMO that got better by switching to F2P.

Also only one.

I kinda doubt ESO is that special.

Psychobunni

mbmcdaniel42_ESO wrote: »

@Psychobunni‌ , I don't agree with you about the repetitive posts. Everyone should be able to voice their opinions. I think it's better to have 600 posts saying the same thing, than one post with 600 comments. Most posts about this same topic are from different people. Granted, I haven't checked that, but I would assume a new post about the same topic is from a different perspective. They aren't ALL the same. And I think it's healthy for a community to discuss their opinions. You are entitled to skip it.

Oh I agree... to an extent. Voice your opinion, yes. But when say the first 5 pages are all 90% the same thing that could be condensed really into a handful of posts...It then becomes a question of if anything we are adding is constructive or simply continuing a drama ball. (my own personal conspiracy theory is that the Mods must have gotten a talk down for deleting so many multiple postings during CP fiasco is why it's being allowed now...but that's a diff matter)

ZOS isn't going to change plans now, B2P it is... no matter who likes it or who doesn't. Some that frequent the forum and/or have from the get go are concerned about what the open doors will bring.....but how depressing has this forum already been for weeks? I'm just saying that we (the ESO community here right now) are better than this. No matter how angry some of us may be (myself included).

PlagueMonk

The first problem right off the bat for me is, they are breaking their initial statement as to why ESO was using a sub model and would NOT be B2P or F2P.

Second is they are breaking their word about content updates coming every 4-6 weeks. The WHOLE reason why we are paying a sub is to give Zenimax the money to continually pour into continual content updates...This is not happening now AS PROMISED.

So right there the game is NOT going to be the exact same going forward. In fact the only "semi" content we are going to get until probably July-August is the champion system/PvE justice system. Even then that doesn't really add ti the content, only enhance what we already have. So no new dungeons, mobs, or like for 7 more months??? I don't know about you but I'm going to be bored as hell in a couple more months running the same damn things again and again.......and again.

Basically we are now paying Zenimax to invest in getting consoles up and running, not giving us content. That right there is bull****.

Then we start tagging on little things like the whole CP debacle, etc and you see a trend forming......that being Zenimax's propensity to outright lie to their playerbase at every turn to keep us paying and then conveniently change their minds when the time comes to pony up with the actual item.

raglau

ESO is a quite good game appallingly managed. It would be illogical to think the management improves when it goes non-sub, because a sub is there to underpin the management.

jeevin

Paske wrote: »

This would be the first MMO that got better by switching to F2P.

Also only one.

I kinda doubt ESO is that special.

Agreed. There are games out there that were technically superior than ESO that switched to btp and are in development limbo now. If ESO pulls off the btp conversion successfully it'll be quite an achievement.

Ysne58

Pibbles wrote: »

ESO is a quite good game appallingly managed. It would be illogical to think the management improves when it goes non-sub, because a sub is there to underpin the management.

Which is why it is likely to be pay to win soonish and complete fail shortly thereafter. My subscription lasts until March 31. I have not decided yet whether I will allow it to auto renew.

raglau

Ysne58 wrote: »

Pibbles wrote: »

ESO is a quite good game appallingly managed. It would be illogical to think the management improves when it goes non-sub, because a sub is there to underpin the management.

Which is why it is likely to be pay to win soonish and complete fail shortly thereafter.

Yep. Because the cash shop becomes relied upon as a quasi sub at which point it becomes an item on a forecast, and we know the rest...

Elsonso

daemonios wrote: »

mbmcdaniel42_ESO wrote: »

So many of you have dissected the new business model that ZoS had announced for their game. Do you realize that the game is the EXACT same as it was before if you stay subscribed? The elder scrolls online that we know and love despite the issues is getting better. We'll have more choices for mounts, costumes, and maybe even a pet or two. In theory, many more players will join, and I can't see how more people playing this game can make it work. I may be in the minority here, but I was one mad at ZoS for doing this too. However, I believe that more players and growing the game as a good thing. I believe ZoS will keep the cash shop from going p2w. I might be the only one who believes this is a great change for a game that needs to grow. I hope that the reason for such delays on new content is from the console release and business model change. I look forward to the road ahead in the coming year. Sure, there are bad things that come with being B2P. Howeverthat like to point out that being subscription only isn't all cherries and whipped cream either. There are some messed up people in this world, and I can assure you the business model doesn't affect that.

/rantover

No, it is *not* getting better. The game is good, but it's far from perfect. As a subscription service, we were entitled to demand that ZOS fix the ongoing issues. That will be gone when a good part of the player base stops being a subscriber, and those that remain do it by choice, not because it's mandatory.

This is no different than any other boxed game that is purchased over the counter. That is all Tamriel Unlimited is, at this point. A boxed set, for which each of us has ponied up the money to play, as-is.

Just like Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas, Dishonored, and all of the other games that ZeniMax Media makes, they will eventually lose interest and wander off. They will move on to other projects, if they have not already started to do so.

In reality, this is no different than when we paid a subscription. The fact that we used to be able to deny them their subscription was never much leverage, obviously.

As far as our "entitlement" to demand anything for the subscription goes, that is not worth as much as it sounds.

Dave2836

Paske wrote: »

This would be the first MMO that got better by switching to F2P.

Also only one.

I kinda doubt ESO is that special.

The payment model doesn't make or break a game. And that is also true about the payment model not improving or degrading the game.

SW:TOR would have been a fantastic game if EA didn't run it into the ground with their $$$ first, all else second mentality. There is a reason why publicly traded companies get a bad rap, and it's because their major stockholders poorly make decisions about the direction of their products.

Case in point, Diablo and Diablo II didn't have auction houses, were great games, but why was Diablo III the red headed stepchild? They refined and emphasized the skinner box, made the game DRM only, and added the auction house at the expense of immersive content. Funny how that happened when Activision got a hold of the company and started focusing on their bottom line. D3 is a well polished game, it does a lot of things right, but how come it feels like the illegitimate son of Godzilla trying to live up to the forebears? Thank you publicly traded company for thinking about $$$ before your consumer base. Still it sold a massive amounts of box copies... ~15 million maybe? That's brand loyalty right there. I was going to buy one until I heard about the DRM and the auctionhouse and decided not to get it. Why do I have to be online to play a single player game?

WoW is another fantastic point. The company is so focused on maintaining their bottom line that at this point, they HAVE to create new content everytime subscribership drops. They are at the beck and call of their playerbase, slaves to chasing the $$$, and ultimately when that bubble bursts, and it will burst because that gaming community will start demanding too much from the game designers to implement, when they run out of story board ideas to add to the game itself.

BBSooner

mbmcdaniel42_ESO wrote: »

Do you realize that the game is the EXACT same as it was before if you stay subscribed?

During a subscription only game: Developer focus is exclusively on trying to justify a sub to customers - their focus is on fun/diverse/interesting/long lasting content.

During a B2P/F2P game: Developer focus is split between keeping the subs of the "super-fans", and creating cash store content that will tempt players to splurge. Fun/diverse/interesting/long lasting content is no longer the single focus - instead partially or (in some long lasting MMOs cases sadly) majorly focusing what they can sell in the store.


The concern is not if the game will be different on Day 1 of B2P. There is concern for the long term toll a cash shop will have on the game.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

mbmcdaniel42_ESO wrote: »

So many of you have dissected the new business model that ZoS had announced for their game. Do you realize that the game is the EXACT same as it was before if you stay subscribed? The elder scrolls online that we know and love despite the issues is getting better. We'll have more choices for mounts, costumes, and maybe even a pet or two. In theory, many more players will join, and I can't see how more people playing this game can make it work. I may be in the minority here, but I was one mad at ZoS for doing this too. However, I believe that more players and growing the game as a good thing. I believe ZoS will keep the cash shop from going p2w. I might be the only one who believes this is a great change for a game that needs to grow. I hope that the reason for such delays on new content is from the console release and business model change. I look forward to the road ahead in the coming year. Sure, there are bad things that come with being B2P. Howeverthat like to point out that being subscription only isn't all cherries and whipped cream either. There are some messed up people in this world, and I can assure you the business model doesn't affect that.

/rantover

yep if for any reason my sub payment is not made, like enough funds or paypal does not make transaction, i will lose all dlc's, but if i go b2p i will not lose them.

Alphashado

daemonios wrote: »

mbmcdaniel42_ESO wrote: »

So many of you have dissected the new business model that ZoS had announced for their game. Do you realize that the game is the EXACT same as it was before if you stay subscribed? The elder scrolls online that we know and love despite the issues is getting better. We'll have more choices for mounts, costumes, and maybe even a pet or two. In theory, many more players will join, and I can't see how more people playing this game can make it work. I may be in the minority here, but I was one mad at ZoS for doing this too. However, I believe that more players and growing the game as a good thing. I believe ZoS will keep the cash shop from going p2w. I might be the only one who believes this is a great change for a game that needs to grow. I hope that the reason for such delays on new content is from the console release and business model change. I look forward to the road ahead in the coming year. Sure, there are bad things that come with being B2P. Howeverthat like to point out that being subscription only isn't all cherries and whipped cream either. There are some messed up people in this world, and I can assure you the business model doesn't affect that.

/rantover

No, it is *not* getting better. The game is good, but it's far from perfect. As a subscription service, we were entitled to demand that ZOS fix the ongoing issues. That will be gone when a good part of the player base stops being a subscriber, and those that remain do it by choice, not because it's mandatory.

In addition, I seriously doubt they'll be able to resist the cash cow of lottery / P2W items in the cash shop.

This. Very much this.

DDuke

mbmcdaniel42_ESO wrote: »

So many of you have dissected the new business model that ZoS had announced for their game. Do you realize that the game is the EXACT same as it was before if you stay subscribed? The elder scrolls online that we know and love despite the issues is getting better. We'll have more choices for mounts, costumes, and maybe even a pet or two. In theory, many more players will join, and I can't see how more people playing this game can make it work. I may be in the minority here, but I was one mad at ZoS for doing this too. However, I believe that more players and growing the game as a good thing. I believe ZoS will keep the cash shop from going p2w. I might be the only one who believes this is a great change for a game that needs to grow. I hope that the reason for such delays on new content is from the console release and business model change. I look forward to the road ahead in the coming year. Sure, there are bad things that come with being B2P. Howeverthat like to point out that being subscription only isn't all cherries and whipped cream either. There are some messed up people in this world, and I can assure you the business model doesn't affect that.

/rantover

1) It has less to do with a change in model and more to do with the fact that development on four platforms is more complicated than two. We fully expect a longer time between updates. But remember, there will be some updates which are free and some which are DLC. This will impact the schedule because it is a different delivery plan than our current model.

Sure it's going to get better... with less frequent content deliveries. Because "consoles". Nothing to do with B2P (especially console) players playing less, and thus generally demanding less content deliveries, nothing to do with that at all...

Not to mention we won't even get an update before end of 2015.

Getting better, yup..

"Convenience items" that allow you to "shortcut time". Yeah... I'm sure they'll make less grindy content in the future, so people don't need to throw them money through cash shop.
Also, how fun that the time of these credit card warriors is more valuable than others'.
I feel really good about snotty kids pissing all over my time & effort spent on doing content.

Great change, yeah.

Oh, and "Skyrim with friends" sounds like such epic content.


*shakes head*

Yasha

It means the end of the world, sky is falling, hobos are moving in, we will all have to pay more money to play than before, no new updates, game will go from the best to the worst overnight, lots of crying on the forums.

xMovingTarget

It feels as of now more like Tamriel Limited with that Update slowdown.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

mbmcdaniel42_ESO wrote: »

So many of you have dissected the new business model that ZoS had announced for their game. Do you realize that the game is the EXACT same as it was before if you stay subscribed? The elder scrolls online that we know and love despite the issues is getting better. We'll have more choices for mounts, costumes, and maybe even a pet or two. In theory, many more players will join, and I can't see how more people playing this game can make it work. I may be in the minority here, but I was one mad at ZoS for doing this too. However, I believe that more players and growing the game as a good thing. I believe ZoS will keep the cash shop from going p2w. I might be the only one who believes this is a great change for a game that needs to grow. I hope that the reason for such delays on new content is from the console release and business model change. I look forward to the road ahead in the coming year. Sure, there are bad things that come with being B2P. Howeverthat like to point out that being subscription only isn't all cherries and whipped cream either. There are some messed up people in this world, and I can assure you the business model doesn't affect that.

/rantover

If you played LOTRO when it went through this change you'd know how radically a game can change within months, to the point where game design is entirely focused on 'driving' Store sales. It didn't happen overnight, Turbine made the same smooth-sounding comments and assertions, then sold out to their WB overlords.

If ZOS follow Trion and ESO follows the kind of path Rift has done then there'll still be changes that will irk some and possibly you, but in the main Rift 2015 is little different from Rift 2011.

One thing though, in Rift you can earn Store currency in-game, so a player intent on never paying real-world cash in the Store can largely get anything they want, ZOS have clearly stated that's not their plan, so already the Rift model seems less likely than the LOTRO one in the medium term.