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Impenetrable Reworked in 1.6

danno8
danno8
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Not sure if this has been discussed but I'll put it here.

Just came up on reddit and was replied to:

Eric Wrobel
"Impenetrable has been tweaked in 1.6, it now reduces incoming critical damage instead of reducing the chance to be hit with a critical strike. This means abilties such such as critical surge will now give the caster health. We like the fact that Impenetrable is very powerful in AvA but would like to further adjust the way it works so players have more gearing options in AvA."
Edited by danno8 on January 23, 2015 8:27PM
  • Tankqull
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    nice but question remains by how much...
    personly i fell the burst allready given is to much in many situation, so increasing it further is nothing i want to see.
    Edited by Tankqull on January 23, 2015 8:32PM
    spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused

    Sallington wrote: »
    Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"


  • Huntler
    Huntler
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    Tweaked impen, but didn't tweak crit rates. Quite easy right now to get a sorc to 60-80% crit without even a spell power pot..... ummm.... this is going to hurt
    Huntlar - VR 14 Templar AD
    Alacrity
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  • Tankqull
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    Huntler wrote: »
    Tweaked impen, but didn't tweak crit rates. Quite easy right now to get a sorc to 60-80% crit without even a spell power pot..... ummm.... this is going to hurt
    well it doesent matter much if the additional dmg is <<10% after impen is calculated in.
    so the sorc doesent hurt more but has a reliable heal for the first time.
    but what about ae cap changes + crit surge? this will lead to unkillable sorcs with enough enemys in range...
    spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused

    Sallington wrote: »
    Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"


  • Huntler
    Huntler
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    Tankqull wrote: »
    Huntler wrote: »
    Tweaked impen, but didn't tweak crit rates. Quite easy right now to get a sorc to 60-80% crit without even a spell power pot..... ummm.... this is going to hurt
    well it doesent matter much if the additional dmg is <<10% after impen is calculated in.
    so the sorc doesent hurt more but has a reliable heal for the first time.
    but what about ae cap changes + crit surge? this will lead to unkillable sorcs with enough enemys in range...

    Yeah thats what I meant, I kind of assume it'll be a 1 to 1 ratio switch so that basically 5 piece impen cuts crit damage by half, etc etc. So crits even with someone stacking impen will still mean something, but really only be like a 25% or less damage buff (unless they are nightblades or use the shadow stone etc.). However like you said, a sorc running the 80% crit build without even using a spell pot is going to basically perma heal himself... this could be insane.
    Huntlar - VR 14 Templar AD
    Alacrity
    Estoy Aqui La Revolución
  • danno8
    danno8
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    Huntler wrote: »
    Tankqull wrote: »
    Huntler wrote: »
    Tweaked impen, but didn't tweak crit rates. Quite easy right now to get a sorc to 60-80% crit without even a spell power pot..... ummm.... this is going to hurt
    well it doesent matter much if the additional dmg is <<10% after impen is calculated in.
    so the sorc doesent hurt more but has a reliable heal for the first time.
    but what about ae cap changes + crit surge? this will lead to unkillable sorcs with enough enemys in range...

    Yeah thats what I meant, I kind of assume it'll be a 1 to 1 ratio switch so that basically 5 piece impen cuts crit damage by half, etc etc. So crits even with someone stacking impen will still mean something, but really only be like a 25% or less damage buff (unless they are nightblades or use the shadow stone etc.). However like you said, a sorc running the 80% crit build without even using a spell pot is going to basically perma heal himself... this could be insane.

    Yah they would need to be handled like a current batswammer DK. Stay out of range/take down at range. At least they don't have RS.

    Currently a 70-80-% crit rate Sorcerer with 1000 dps will get around 480 hps assuming impenetrable is not a factor. If it proves to be too much they can at least fairly easily tweak the 60% return downward to something more in line.
  • tplink3r1
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    Huntler wrote: »
    Tankqull wrote: »
    Huntler wrote: »
    Tweaked impen, but didn't tweak crit rates. Quite easy right now to get a sorc to 60-80% crit without even a spell power pot..... ummm.... this is going to hurt
    well it doesent matter much if the additional dmg is <<10% after impen is calculated in.
    so the sorc doesent hurt more but has a reliable heal for the first time.
    but what about ae cap changes + crit surge? this will lead to unkillable sorcs with enough enemys in range...

    Yeah thats what I meant, I kind of assume it'll be a 1 to 1 ratio switch so that basically 5 piece impen cuts crit damage by half, etc etc. So crits even with someone stacking impen will still mean something, but really only be like a 25% or less damage buff (unless they are nightblades or use the shadow stone etc.). However like you said, a sorc running the 80% crit build without even using a spell pot is going to basically perma heal himself... this could be insane.

    Yah they would need to be handled like a current batswammer DK. Stay out of range/take down at range. At least they don't have RS.

    Currently a 70-80-% crit rate Sorcerer with 1000 dps will get around 480 hps assuming impenetrable is not a factor. If it proves to be too much they can at least fairly easily tweak the 60% return downward to something more in line.
    I dont think most people are dumb enough to stay close to him...
    VR16 Templar
    VR3 Sorcerer
  • Huntler
    Huntler
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    tplink3r1 wrote: »
    Huntler wrote: »
    Tankqull wrote: »
    Huntler wrote: »
    Tweaked impen, but didn't tweak crit rates. Quite easy right now to get a sorc to 60-80% crit without even a spell power pot..... ummm.... this is going to hurt
    well it doesent matter much if the additional dmg is <<10% after impen is calculated in.
    so the sorc doesent hurt more but has a reliable heal for the first time.
    but what about ae cap changes + crit surge? this will lead to unkillable sorcs with enough enemys in range...

    Yeah thats what I meant, I kind of assume it'll be a 1 to 1 ratio switch so that basically 5 piece impen cuts crit damage by half, etc etc. So crits even with someone stacking impen will still mean something, but really only be like a 25% or less damage buff (unless they are nightblades or use the shadow stone etc.). However like you said, a sorc running the 80% crit build without even using a spell pot is going to basically perma heal himself... this could be insane.

    Yah they would need to be handled like a current batswammer DK. Stay out of range/take down at range. At least they don't have RS.

    Currently a 70-80-% crit rate Sorcerer with 1000 dps will get around 480 hps assuming impenetrable is not a factor. If it proves to be too much they can at least fairly easily tweak the 60% return downward to something more in line.
    I dont think most people are dumb enough to stay close to him...

    Famous last words :| and a sorc can port.... and a sorc in a clump of enemies will be pulling a lot more than 1k dps. Guess we'll see though, but I'm a little worried. Crit totals have been allowed to get very very high in itemization of this game probably mostly for PvE and because of how impen worked to begin with for pvp.... I have played PvP games before that allowed crit to get near 100% and it becomes broken, very very quickly so I am a bit apprehensive about this.
    Huntlar - VR 14 Templar AD
    Alacrity
    Estoy Aqui La Revolución
  • Pancake-Tragedy
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    Well, you can't crit though block or damage shields, so this change just reinforces the need to block/shield stack.
    Pancake Tragedy - Sorcerer
  • danno8
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    Well, you can't crit though block or damage shields, so this change just reinforces the need to block/shield stack.

    And with all the changes to light armour we have been led to believe they will be actually squishy.

    Bring on the PTS, I find it is getting harder and harder to see how 1.6 will play out because everyday there is some new bit of news.
  • IxSTALKERxI
    IxSTALKERxI
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    It will also reduce the damage gankers will do to people. No more 2k lethal arrows if you wear impen. :)
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  • Aoe_Barbecue
    Aoe_Barbecue
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    Shielding stacking won't be a thing in 1.6 either. Time to dust off my sorc! Thirteen-F-Socal will strike fear into the hearts of her enemies ...
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  • Pancake-Tragedy
    Pancake-Tragedy
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    Well, you can't crit though block or damage shields, so this change just reinforces the need to block/shield stack.

    And with all the changes to light armour we have been led to believe they will be actually squishy.

    Bring on the PTS, I find it is getting harder and harder to see how 1.6 will play out because everyday there is some new bit of news.

    Definitely hard to predict how much of a change this will make with so many moving parts going on. I know I will will be studying the patch notes harder than some of my college texts come PTS patch day =p
    Pancake Tragedy - Sorcerer
  • Pancake-Tragedy
    Pancake-Tragedy
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    Shielding stacking won't be a thing in 1.6 either. Time to dust off my sorc! Thirteen-F-Socal will strike fear into the hearts of her enemies ...
    TF: How are damage shields being affected by these changes? Are the values of damage shields being scaled by a larger factor than health so they are more impactful? Currently the effectiveness of damage shields is really limited because you only get a small fraction of the size of the shield in actual damage mitigation.

    EW: You can have as many Damage Shields as you want basically. Health has been increased by a large amount, but we’ve seen that damage shields are extremely useful. For example, as a Templar tank, being able to cast a sun shield before the boss hits you increases your max theoretical health, even if it’s not by the exact value of the damage shield it doesn’t get all the defensive bonuses other things do. Since you can cast shields over and over again, they have proven to be very impactful in our trial and dungeon testing.

    From the tamrielfoundry Q&A with Eric Wrobel.
    Edited by Pancake-Tragedy on January 23, 2015 9:03PM
    Pancake Tragedy - Sorcerer
  • Roechacca
    Roechacca
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    Shielding stacking won't be a thing in 1.6 either. Time to dust off my sorc! Thirteen-F-Socal will strike fear into the hearts of her enemies ...
    TF: How are damage shields being affected by these changes? Are the values of damage shields being scaled by a larger factor than health so they are more impactful? Currently the effectiveness of damage shields is really limited because you only get a small fraction of the size of the shield in actual damage mitigation.

    EW: You can have as many Damage Shields as you want basically. Health has been increased by a large amount, but we’ve seen that damage shields are extremely useful. For example, as a Templar tank, being able to cast a sun shield before the boss hits you increases your max theoretical health, even if it’s not by the exact value of the damage shield it doesn’t get all the defensive bonuses other things do. Since you can cast shields over and over again, they have proven to be very impactful in our trial and dungeon testing.

    From the tamrielfoundry Q&A with Eric Wrobel.

    Yep . Heavy armor will be stronger then a Paywall 1.6
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  • Xsorus
    Xsorus
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    So nerfing stamina based sneak attack builds to make Sorcs redunk overpowered..nice..

  • danno8
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    So nerfing stamina based sneak attack builds to make Sorcs redunk overpowered..nice..

    Well if they keep DK op, make sorc OP, some would say Templar is already OP, all that's left is to make NB OP.

    ZoZ has finally listened, they are just going about it backwards.
  • c0rp
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    ABOUT FREAKING TIME.....wow.
    Force weapon swap to have priority over EVERYTHING. Close enough.
    Make stamina builds even with magicka builds.
    Disable abilities while holding block.
    Give us a REASON to do dungeons more than once.
    Remove PVP AoE CAP. It is ruining Cyrodiil.
    Fix/Remove Forward Camps. They are ruining Cyrodiil.
    Impenetrability needs to REDUCE CRIT DAMAGE. Not negate entire builds.
    Werewolf is not equal to Vamps/Bats.
  • frozywozy
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    Yup, same thing as resilience in Wow.

    If my memories are right, resilience cap in Wow would reduce any incoming critical damage up to 25%. Should have been that since the beginning.
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  • timidobserver
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    Im not a fan of this. No amount of reduction is going to be enough when fighting the current bow meta. I don't want them critting me at all not just critting me slightly softer.
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  • OtarTheMad
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    Great news, so now can you make a friggin system that allows me to change the trait on my PvP gear instead of making new crap? Now I have to farm for legendary material. Overall though, I am happy that this is happening, just annoyed I have to get more gold material.
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  • Sharee
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    Hmm, interesting change. Some abilities will be nerfed hard by this (critical rush, shadowy disguise...)
  • s7732425ub17_ESO
    s7732425ub17_ESO
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    This is a great change.

    A 1000 damage spell will crit for 1500 damage. If we assume impenetrable will just be subtractive from the damage bonus, having 500 impenetrable will cut the crit damage in half, so the spell will crit for 1250 instead. This seems fair.
  • ToRelax
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    For a sorc that is a great change and long wanted by many!

    Indeed I am a bit concerned about critical rush I would hope it would then ignore impenetrable.
    Will stealth crits also be effected?

    However, about the unkillable sorcerer:
    That is many months ago, there have been many changes, apart from the people starting to wear impenetrable more and more, and more changes are to come in 1.6 . To name some, Impulse range nerf, Streak nerf (and AoE cap "fix" wich will be gone in 1.6 though), Harness Magicka nerf.
    In 1.6 : Light armor will be less tanky, Absorption field will be nerfed, Surge itself will still be split up in Spell damage and healing morph (as far as I know, they said they'd look into it I think), blockable AoE, Wall of Elements not stackable.
    Also Unstable familiar is still bugged, although it is "close to working as intended", at least against players. Against Mobs it still does not stun.

    In short:
    It is the first really positive change for a magicka sorc that I hear from for Update 6, but there are still so many other changes that I think it's pretty pointless arguing about how OP sorc will be with this...

    edit, was a bit unprecise ^^
    Edited by ToRelax on January 24, 2015 12:26AM
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  • eliisra
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    It will also reduce the damage gankers will do to people. No more 2k lethal arrows if you wear impen. :)

    How do you know that? Sneak attacks aren't technically normal crits, they are attacks with sneak bonus such as cc and more damage (equal to a crit).

    I personally do hope sneak attacks are included and will be mitigated by impenetrable in 1.6. I'm obviously biased since I dislike the bow-meta with non-existent TTK from max range.

    But a nerf of such magnitude would no doubt infuriate all the the teenage boys dreaming of head-shots and big sniper riffles. Not sure if ZoS will be able to keep that part of the player base happy or even playing the game, if sneak attacks are mitigated by basic traits. Than again, a lot of today's easy-mode builds will be nerfed in 1.6. Who knows what will happen.
  • shebali
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    eliisra wrote: »
    It will also reduce the damage gankers will do to people. No more 2k lethal arrows if you wear impen. :)

    How do you know that? Sneak attacks aren't technically normal crits, they are attacks with sneak bonus such as cc and more damage (equal to a crit).

    I personally do hope sneak attacks are included and will be mitigated by impenetrable in 1.6. I'm obviously biased since I dislike the bow-meta with non-existent TTK from max range.

    But a nerf of such magnitude would no doubt infuriate all the the teenage boys dreaming of head-shots and big sniper riffles. Not sure if ZoS will be able to keep that part of the player base happy or even playing the game, if sneak attacks are mitigated by basic traits. Than again, a lot of today's easy-mode builds will be nerfed in 1.6. Who knows what will happen.


    Everything really depends on other changes. Long as the shadow new system lets you even out the new changes things will be fine. You have little ways to increase crit damage, until all the patch notes are out it is hard to say anything.
  • Sublime
    Sublime
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    Not sure if this has been discussed but I'll put it here.

    Just came up on reddit and was replied to:

    Eric Wrobel
    "Impenetrable has been tweaked in 1.6, it now reduces incoming critical damage instead of reducing the chance to be hit with a critical strike. This means abilties such such as critical surge will now give the caster health. We like the fact that Impenetrable is very powerful in AvA but would like to further adjust the way it works so players have more gearing options in AvA."

    Time to party!
  • Leovolao
    Leovolao
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    This really pisses me off. As a sorc, ive been sitting here hoping they would change impenetrable so crit surge would be useful.... Well nps they're going to take crit surge away from magic sorcs so we won't see any result from this. Thanks ZOS for once again *** over sorcerers.

    They are discussing adding the heal as a base effect for the skill.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2tfb48/welcome_to_the_eso_tamriel_unlimited_aua/cnym22j
    Edited by Leovolao on January 24, 2015 3:30AM
    tea pot


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