Do cosmetic only cash shops exist in any F2P/B2P game at all?

WraithAzraiel · January 2015

Paske wrote: »

It will be P2W very soon

How? What does your Magic 8 Ball say? You know, the one next to your UFO Monthly magazine and your Anti-Brain-Control Helmet.

Kraven · January 2015

(Okay this one isn't a novel like the last one)

Firefall, specifically isn't JUST cosmetic items.

You can buy the classes. This does not make it P2W as you can also unlock them in the game or buy them with in game currency off the market, which converts real money to in game credits. I still won't say this is P2W however, because of the number of different currencies that game has. On the other hand crafting costs, so in a way the more real money you spend the easier access you have to better classes and gear.

Easier access, while still being considered pay for convenience easily translates and is quickly interpreted as P2W. If on day 2 you can purchase with real money what it took me to unlock by playing for a month or more and that puts you on a platform above a Free player who has only been playing a week and hasn't spent any real money, then it is very easy to see how pay for convenience can easily be read as P2W.

Dracane · January 2015

Razzak wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I think, the worst think they are going to add, are 3 stat potions or food.

It's not only what they will add, it's also how they will change the game outside of cash shop to lower it's influence or competition with cash shop.

I'm worried as well.
I don't think, all of this is going to be healthy for the game.
I don't drink and don't take drugs. But If was like this, I would shut me down, to not think of ESO at the moment -.- I'm pretty depressed since they have made this announcment.

Miszou · January 2015

Emencie wrote: »

Miszou wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

Miszou wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

The answer is flat out no.

The question was
Do cosmetic only cash shops exist in any F2P game?

No they do not!
This is just a fact.

http://www.firefallthegame.com/

Right... a F2P game, where paying gives in game advantage.

You will have to explain the context of your link for me to respond more.

Yeah, don't make sarcastic remarks if you don't know what you're talking about.

Unfortunately, Firefall doesn't have their store contents available online, but feel free to download the game from here, check the store and get back to me when you find a pay-2-win item in there.

http://www.firefallthegame.com/download

Thanks.

edit: better download link

You brought up pay 2 win not me. I plainly and very simply stated

"The question was
Do cosmetic only cash shops exist in any F2P game?

No they do not!
This is just a fact."

This remains true, including Firefall which does not sell cosmetic items only.

Just because you feel that the item doesn't give a huge advantage doesn't mean everyone feels that way. Any advantage no matter how small can easily be thought of as P2W. 10% XP means nothing to me because I grind my face off, but a person who is bad at grinding or making money may feel it is very advantageous to get that bonus, While many PvE (non trial) players may not see that good cash shop potions could unbalance the game or soul gems as worthless. As a PvPer I find potions and everyone with infinite stacks of soulgems as game breaking.

What means pay2win for you does not mean pay2win for me.

Fine.

Show me an item in the Firefall shop that is pay-2-win, that cannot be obtained in game by a free player just playing the game. Quite honestly, some items are ONLY available in the store by gambling on them, actually making it a BETTER option to purchase them off the auction house with in-game cash.

And XP boosters don't count. They don't help you win, they just help you get to endgame faster, where all the alleged "winning" takes place.

Rescorla_ESO · January 2015

Emencie wrote: »

Just because you feel that the item doesn't give a huge advantage doesn't mean everyone feels that way. Any advantage no matter how small can easily be thought of as P2W.

What means pay2win for you does not mean pay2win for me.

I'm glad you brought this up. Fairly obvious based on the replies in this thread and several others that you are indeed 100% correct that different people have different criteria for what constitutes Pay to Win.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on the subject but no one is entitled to having their opinion taken seriously. Some of you are acting like if there is an item in the cash shop that gives even the slightest advantage to someone, your entire gaming experience is going to be ruined and you are going to rage quit in protest.

Now the question is what % of the current player base has this kind of extreme mentality. I have no idea but I hope not very many. What I do assume is that the execs, marketing experts and bean counters at ZOS have a pretty good idea of what their demographic base is. Since it all boils down to profit, I'm inclined to believe they aren't worried to much about losing the rage quitters as well as those who categorize pretty much everything on the cash shop as P2W regardless of whether it actually provides an advantage or not.

BBSooner · January 2015

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

Just because you feel that the item doesn't give a huge advantage doesn't mean everyone feels that way. Any advantage no matter how small can easily be thought of as P2W.

What means pay2win for you does not mean pay2win for me.

Now the question is what % of the current player base has this kind of extreme mentality.

I would guess not many. Some will even denounce the game for something that could be pay2win but still play knowing it didn't effect them.

I don't dislike these cash models because of what the store sells. I dislike these models because the developer focus moves from being purely fun/interesting content to a cash store designed to be attractive enough to nickel and dime the customers.

Over time the influence of the store will grow if we hope to have the same rate of content churned out, to a point of intrusion and soon content will be designed with what can be charged extra in mind. I wish P2W wasn't the focus of a lot of the discussion, the influence of a brand new (and superior) avenue of income on the game is a far larger concern than a few tri-pots and soul gems.

Emencie · January 2015

Miszou wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

Miszou wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

Miszou wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

The answer is flat out no.

The question was
Do cosmetic only cash shops exist in any F2P game?

No they do not!
This is just a fact.

http://www.firefallthegame.com/

Right... a F2P game, where paying gives in game advantage.

You will have to explain the context of your link for me to respond more.

Yeah, don't make sarcastic remarks if you don't know what you're talking about.

Unfortunately, Firefall doesn't have their store contents available online, but feel free to download the game from here, check the store and get back to me when you find a pay-2-win item in there.

http://www.firefallthegame.com/download

Thanks.

edit: better download link

You brought up pay 2 win not me. I plainly and very simply stated

"The question was
Do cosmetic only cash shops exist in any F2P game?

No they do not!
This is just a fact."

This remains true, including Firefall which does not sell cosmetic items only.

Just because you feel that the item doesn't give a huge advantage doesn't mean everyone feels that way. Any advantage no matter how small can easily be thought of as P2W. 10% XP means nothing to me because I grind my face off, but a person who is bad at grinding or making money may feel it is very advantageous to get that bonus, While many PvE (non trial) players may not see that good cash shop potions could unbalance the game or soul gems as worthless. As a PvPer I find potions and everyone with infinite stacks of soulgems as game breaking.

What means pay2win for you does not mean pay2win for me.

Fine.

Show me an item in the Firefall shop that is pay-2-win, that cannot be obtained in game by a free player just playing the game. Quite honestly, some items are ONLY available in the store by gambling on them, actually making it a BETTER option to purchase them off the auction house with in-game cash.

And XP boosters don't count. They don't help you win, they just help you get to endgame faster, where all the alleged "winning" takes place.

For some people XP boosters do count. Especially in this game where...
#1 level gain will never stop. CP is supposed to be by design infinitely gained.
#2 level cap is a very long and considerable task to accomplish

Honestly you are talking to the wrong person about XP boosts. I personally don't think it's p2w for an instant level cap option. And I would likely buy it in every game I play, at least for any alt. But I also recognize that to some people instant level cap is pay2win.

You are still missing the point that your opinion of what is pay2win is not fact. Anytime you can purchase an advantage in a game by using money outside the game no matter what advantage that is. Someone somewhere will cry foul. It does not matter if you can get it in the game, You can get legendary weapons in game in GW2, guess what the community thought when people started buying them with real money?

DDuke · January 2015

kieso wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

kieso wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

kieso wrote: »

I wouldn't consider GW2 P2W.

Oh please...
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store

Only one crafting profession if I don't pay 10$?
Hundreds of $$$ to get full inventory & bank space?
WvW Experience Boosters? (AP equivalent)
Rare Item finder boosters? (now that'd be fun with Undaunted helms...)
Chest keys?

One of the most disgusting models out there, that creates inconveniences (such as bank/inventory space) in order to make people use $$$, as well as having P2W elements such as "boosters".

You could actually have two professions if I remember right but to get a third one you had to deactivate one of them and put it in a queue of sorts to raise the new one. So you could max all crafting on one toon if you wanted if you didn't mind activating/reactivating them. Also in GW2 people had tons of alts do it didn't matter.

You could get full inventory pretty easily w/o ever going to the cash store I had a ton of backpacks from doing the PVE content.

The bank didn't need to be full to get use out of it, it's there for hoarders mostly, especially since crafting materials went into a separate bank space that had a slot for each crafting material up to a stack of 250 per item.

WvW experience boosters weren't a big deal at all, WvW is account wide and easily upped just WvWing, I had some boosters, I never bothered with them. That's hardly P2W.

The magic find booster was a joke, it didn't effect hardly anything as this game was based on tokens. Maybe you got a couple of fractal shards which let you buy some good rings but if you did fractals you already had dozens of rings without using any booster.

chest keys were for black lion chests which had random items drop from them, people bought them for cosmetic things they held in them such as pets or dyes.

you never played this game did you?

That's not only direct & indirect advantages (P2W), but also inconveniences that make you spend $$$, no matter how you spin it around. If I'm a "hoarder" (read: more dedicated player with more mats & gear sets than you), I have to pay extra? Disgusting.

And sounds like you enjoyed using that shop for those advantages.

Keep defending the corporate greed & bad practices, you're doing gaming a huge service...

And yes, I did play the game (for a week). Too much casual focus & cash shop made me want to vomit (I do admit, I should've done better research on the game before purchasing).

So basically you don't know squat about the game and are talking out of your arse. You also don't know how to read. I said earlier mats had their own separate bank slots that weren't tied to your regular bank. They were free, to anyone.

You don't know how crafting worked.

You don't know how useless boosters are and how no one uses them

Also where did you get hoarder = dedicated? If that's your mindset that's just sad. You're utterly ignorant on the games mechanics and how anything works but yet choose to argue with someone who does. Pathetic.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Storage_Expander

So you are of the mind-set that people who like having lots of item sets in bank should pay more for that "priviledge"? Isn't it enough that they work hard & earn them?

These kind of "you must pay more because you play more" attitudes make me sick, and are essentially what F2P/B2P games revolve on: more dedicated players carrying the freeloaders with their cash purchases.

Weng · January 2015

DDuke wrote: »

kieso wrote: »

I wouldn't consider GW2 P2W.

Oh please...
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store

Only one crafting profession if I don't pay 10$?
Hundreds of $$$ to get full inventory & bank space?
WvW Experience Boosters? (AP equivalent)
Rare Item finder boosters? (now that'd be fun with Undaunted helms...)
Chest keys?

One of the most disgusting models out there, that creates inconveniences (such as bank/inventory space) in order to make people use $$$, as well as having P2W elements such as "boosters".

Well, but gems for the GW2 store can be bought with in game gold. So if you grind enough gold you can buy everything you want.

And items are completely different from ESO, there are no drop sets. You get all stats from tokens or crafting.

If you take a close look, then GW2 was made with a cash shop in mind. We still have to see how such a thing fits into ESO.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · January 2015

LunaRae wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

Nope.

We already have soul gems confirmed in the Crown Store too.

If you believe having soul gems available for purchase in the cash shop equates to Pay 2 Win then you may as well quit playing now.

How about I buy 10000 stacks of soul gems and sell them 3k/each to vendors?

I'd be the the richest person in Tamriel for spending $$$.

I hope they work out a solution around that problem.

They already said several times on stream and in the forums you can't sell crown purchases. If you'd take the time to educate yourself before posting you wouldn't look like a fool.

they will always find a way, there isnt enough advice you can give to change that.

Harleyquincey · January 2015

@Lord Xanhorn
Yes.
Examples:
Path of Exile, Star Wars: The Old Republic.
Both have sheer vanity items only, both have done so for a good amount of time and both are highly profitable nevertheless.

mamericus · January 2015

No.

Tamanous · January 2015

The main issue is the over use of the term "pay to win". I hate to shatter you reality for those who yet do not understand a cash shop model: Being able to pay for things that already exist in game is not pay to win. Pay to win is progression blocked through cash shop and/or items available that make you more powerful than you can become through game play alone.

You have to adjust your definition or be left behind by these new payment models. Subs simply will not work for ESO on console. If only a PC game the sub model could likely have gone on but even more likely still went to B2P. Why? Because there are also inherent restrictions with a subscription model ... it immediately blocks players from playing the game even if they bought the game. It is the single reason why I have yet to have a real life gamer friend even try the game. Nearly all players even remotely close to my age live professional lives with family or a serious relationship of some sort. All of us cannot simply throw a sub commitment out each and every game we play and we mostly play mmos (even if completely different sub-genres).

A cash shop model will cater to this large segment of players who values time equally or more than money. This drives reasons to put things like horses and what not that saves time through money. What makes a f2p model p2w however is attaching progression restrictions within the payment model. Some mmos flat out attach the entire end game into cash stores. Your power is entirely restricted unless accessing the store ... THAT IS PAY TO WIN!

Frustrations exist all around over this transition but you express yours by heading to the forums and throwing around "P2W" everywhere thinking your are cool ... you are not. You are flat out wrong and unwilling to accept the strengths and limitations between the models. There are many issues caused by a sub only model. There are many new and different issues that can be raised by a B2P model but to ignore it's strengths and versatility for the developer and why they went that direction is simply rooted in ignorance.

You can discuss those differences but you must also define the line between p2w and every other model. Most of your lines are very blurry indeed and do not help your argument.

knightblaster · January 2015

kongkim wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Anlaemar wrote: »

Ever played League? Good example.

It has a shop to buy skins for characters and small boosts for XP and IP (in game currency). These boosts are small and defiantly not game breaking.

Is LoL an MMO that requires a lot of income & development power?

Nope.

I think you miss something. LOL is the game with the large cash shop income in any game at all. And right after come SWORT. There is a chart out there if you look it up.

The point is that it doesn't impact the development of the game, because the main development is additional champions which, yep, cost MONEY. So, no, you missed the point.

Nijjion · January 2015

GW2 is best example at the moment MMO wise.

Everything is aesthetic or convenience, which has worked quite well to create a non B2W cash shop.

Though you can swap in game gold for the cash shop currency (and vice versa as well) so you can eventually get it that way. Nothing is locked for non paying customers in GW2 so no combat advantage as well.

knightblaster · January 2015

Tamanous wrote: »

The main issue is the over use of the term "pay to win". I hate to shatter you reality for those who yet do not understand a cash shop model: Being able to pay for things that already exist in game is not pay to win. Pay to win is progression blocked through cash shop and/or items available that make you more powerful than you can become through game play alone.

You have to adjust your definition or be left behind by these new payment models.

People have to adjust their definition to suit the preferences of you and your friends? Why?

Look, there is an active MMO with millions and millions of subscribers. Most of those, I'd be willing to wager, have families/jobs/kids/spouses. Most are casual. They pay their 15 a month, which is hardly a huge amount. Yes, if you want to stockpile MMOs and only pay for one or two while playing 5 or 6 for free, well, yes the B2P model suits you -- to the detriment of the game itself. Its frankly a selfish perspective -- ruin the game (because it does ruin games -- every single MMO that has gone this way has been decreased in quality, without question) just to suit your own personal financial preferences, and then hide behind life circumstances and "time" as if the largest subscription MMO, which has millions of players, doesn't have millions of people in your exact situation yet who pay their sub to that game.

Bottom line -- this decision is about greed. For the company and for the players who are too cheap to shell out a sub fee which, for most people is not a large amount of money. Greed.

Languish4567 · January 2015

Anyone who said that PvE'rs don't care about p2w are ignorant. The biggest issue in this game specifically with exp boosters and things of that nature are trying to do raids with player that have no idea how to play the game. When I first hit VT10 it was pre crag and cost somewhere in the range of 40 million exp, not to mention the mobs where insanely difficult, so when I was in a group of all VT10's I was quite confident that they all knew what they were doing, this is very important in this game as there is no group dps meter. Now with the game super nerfed it is near impossible to PUG a group to do end game content, and there is no way of knowing who is screwing it up so you have to disband and try again and again and again, this will get exceptionally worse when end game drops to lvl 50. Add to that a fresh group that have thrown a little money at the cash shop so they can get to end game quick through exp boosts and easy grinding, and suddenly we have lots of new players that don't have the skill points they need to be effective and they don't know crap about how to actually play the game, not to mention they were to lazy to learn it during the leveling portion of the game, so it is unlikely their going to suddenly get the urge now. No they tell you that its perfectly ok to dps with a sword and board and you "just don't know what your talking about" direct quote. These things may seem small at first, but when you add them to the fact that the hardcore crowd will dwindle, it will either be a pain to deal with the people that know nothing or the devs(and this is the likely way this game will go given its track record) will just nerf end game so its a joke. It doesn't matter if you call it p2w or anything else if you loose the crowd of folks who do know how to play in order to attract people that don't have or want to spend the time to learn it will make the game aggravating or boring take your pick.

Ohioastro · January 2015

Games are designed around what pays the rent. In the case of a sub game, it's content. In the case of a cash shop, it's what people will pay for.

At best, you end up with development resources spent on "optional" things. The problem, of course, is that in sub games you get those things by normal gameplay...which never happens any more in cash shop games. This is a real loss.

"Convenience" items sell if players use them to avoid tasks they find unpleasant, Again, this ends up warping game play - making some drops extremely rare or progress extremely slow unless you pay cash.

And, if these don't sell enough, then you can start buying real advantages in the cash shop - which is, again, extremely common once players burn out on the first two classes of items. This is what people are arguing about as "pay to win", but you see real harm to the game even before you reach this stage.

The cash shop will change this game for the worse. The only question is how quickly and how much.

Miszou · January 2015

Languish4567 wrote: »

-- words --

You could always help them instead of sh!tting on them from your Ivory Tower..?

Just because someone doesn't want to theorycraft their DPS meters until their eyes bleed, doesn't mean they don't deserve to play.

Zershar_Vemod · January 2015

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

Nope.

We already have soul gems confirmed in the Crown Store too.

If you believe having soul gems available for purchase in the cash shop equates to Pay 2 Win then you may as well quit playing now.

Ummm what?

The OP is asking a question about cosmetic only shops...I was informing them that we already have soul gems planned. Unless you got a memo saying we can wear soul gems?

Learn to read before posting next time.

LunaRae wrote: »

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

Nope.

We already have soul gems confirmed in the Crown Store too.

Oh no soul gems, the convenience of it all. Better go buy the roughly 1,250 soul gems I can afford from Cyrodiil with the 2mil AP I have.

People are going to butcher convenience and P2W so hard, they always do. Vendor grade potions and soul gems do not fall under P2W. If you spent any time in the game at all you can probably craft your own tri-pots and gather the mats in Coldharbor in under 30 minutes for one stack. Want soul gems? If you're like me you never use your AP, or if you're also like me you're sitting on over 100k+ gold with nothing to buy. So go buy some full soul gems for 900gold-ish, or if you're a cheap bum go buy the empty versions for 120 gold. 10k gold for an empty stack, fill it in under 15 minutes.

Do you have lots of two-piece undaunted sets? Cause if you ran CoA like I did over 50 times you'll rack up a ton of soul gems from clean runs from all the bosses you defeat.

Really though, you complain about soul gems?

Oh look, someone else who can't read.

I was pointing out how soul gems are not cosmetic items. When the hell did I say soul gems were P2W?

What are you morons ranting about lol? You people seem defensive.

clocksstoppe · January 2015

This game is already pay 2 win because of the imperial edition.

starkerealm · January 2015

Elder_III wrote: »

GW1 had/has a B2P Cash Shop that was purely Cosmetic. GW2 has a B2P Cash Shop that was Cosmetic and Convenience, but gradually went past the point of Convenience items for me personally.

Of games I have played and used a Cash Shop, so far GW1 is the only one that did it perfectly. Costumes and Character slots only.

GW1 also had PvP weapon unlocks, and skill unlocks. Those were very much, not, cosmetic.

Kalman wrote: »

The Secret World started out like that. Now they have a few boosters you can buy but I wouldn't say they give a huge advantage.

Secret World always had a few things in there that were non-cosmetic. Last time I checked you could flat out buy QL10 blue items in the shop. They didn't have any glyphs, so you'd have to cough those up yourself. But you could just flat out buy gear. I know at launch there were QL1 blues, but I think that was actually a preorder incentive, and not, strictly, something you could buy.

Vandignesca wrote: »

The Secret World does have a pretty fair model. They do have RNG boxes you can buy...but these are kind of silly to purchase. They drop tokens for dungeon gear (not all the tokens required to get a piece either, like 10%), and you can get enough tokens for an entire weapon in literally 1 day of running dungeons normally. It's basically pay to not be super lazy or have dungeon gear for solo content if you don't want to group.

TSW has a serious grind issue. Tossing a little black bullion is basically meaningless.

Kraven · January 2015

Tamanous wrote: »

The main issue is the over use of the term "pay to win". I hate to shatter you reality for those who yet do not understand a cash shop model: Being able to pay for things that already exist in game is not pay to win. Pay to win is progression blocked through cash shop and/or items available that make you more powerful than you can become through game play alone.

You have to adjust your definition or be left behind by these new payment models. Subs simply will not work for ESO on console. If only a PC game the sub model could likely have gone on but even more likely still went to B2P. Why? Because there are also inherent restrictions with a subscription model ... it immediately blocks players from playing the game even if they bought the game. It is the single reason why I have yet to have a real life gamer friend even try the game. Nearly all players even remotely close to my age live professional lives with family or a serious relationship of some sort. All of us cannot simply throw a sub commitment out each and every game we play and we mostly play mmos (even if completely different sub-genres).

A cash shop model will cater to this large segment of players who values time equally or more than money. This drives reasons to put things like horses and what not that saves time through money. What makes a f2p model p2w however is attaching progression restrictions within the payment model. Some mmos flat out attach the entire end game into cash stores. Your power is entirely restricted unless accessing the store ... THAT IS PAY TO WIN!

Frustrations exist all around over this transition but you express yours by heading to the forums and throwing around "P2W" everywhere thinking your are cool ... you are not. You are flat out wrong and unwilling to accept the strengths and limitations between the models. There are many issues caused by a sub only model. There are many new and different issues that can be raised by a B2P model but to ignore it's strengths and versatility for the developer and why they went that direction is simply rooted in ignorance.

You can discuss those differences but you must also define the line between p2w and every other model. Most of your lines are very blurry indeed and do not help your argument.

So rather than address the actual points made, that explain exactly how it is P2W. You choose to instead of addressing point make an entire post telling other people they need to adjust their definition to fit what your own definition is?

"Frustrations exist all around over this transition but you express yours by heading to the forums and throwing around "P2W" everywhere thinking your are cool ... you are not. You are flat out wrong and unwilling to accept the strengths and limitations between the models. "

LOL, once again proving that the community that is staying is already declining. Rather than address facts and logic you choose to say "You're not cool! You're wrong because I say so!" Cool story. You're the cool guy we should all aspire to...nope can't even finish the sentence.

DDuke · January 2015

Tamanous wrote: »

"Frustrations exist all around over this transition but you express yours by heading to the forums and throwing around "P2W" everywhere thinking your are cool ... you are not. You are flat out wrong and unwilling to accept the strengths and limitations between the models. "

Mercurio · January 2015

every game that has gone F2P that was not a complete flop initially and on fire sale(i.e. TSW) starts designing the game around herding you to the store. That's the only way to retain any form of steady income, and that's why they go B2P/F2P. Bad for players. Bad for devs and their resumes. Good for generic suits that move from game to game, company to company performing magic math.

Cervanteseric85ub17_ESO · January 2015

DDuke wrote: »

kieso wrote: »

I wouldn't consider GW2 P2W.

Oh please...
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store

Only one crafting profession if I don't pay 10$?
Hundreds of $$$ to get full inventory & bank space?
WvW Experience Boosters? (AP equivalent)
Rare Item finder boosters? (now that'd be fun with Undaunted helms...)
Chest keys?

One of the most disgusting models out there, that creates inconveniences (such as bank/inventory space) in order to make people use $$$, as well as having P2W elements such as "boosters".

1. You don't need to buy anything from the gem store to craft
2. The bank space and inventory you can buy with gold, but even then it is only a connivence option
3. And lastly booster are connivence

DDuke wrote: »

kieso wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

kieso wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

kieso wrote: »

I wouldn't consider GW2 P2W.

Oh please...
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store

Only one crafting profession if I don't pay 10$?
Hundreds of $$$ to get full inventory & bank space?
WvW Experience Boosters? (AP equivalent)
Rare Item finder boosters? (now that'd be fun with Undaunted helms...)
Chest keys?

One of the most disgusting models out there, that creates inconveniences (such as bank/inventory space) in order to make people use $$$, as well as having P2W elements such as "boosters".

You could actually have two professions if I remember right but to get a third one you had to deactivate one of them and put it in a queue of sorts to raise the new one. So you could max all crafting on one toon if you wanted if you didn't mind activating/reactivating them. Also in GW2 people had tons of alts do it didn't matter.

You could get full inventory pretty easily w/o ever going to the cash store I had a ton of backpacks from doing the PVE content.

The bank didn't need to be full to get use out of it, it's there for hoarders mostly, especially since crafting materials went into a separate bank space that had a slot for each crafting material up to a stack of 250 per item.

WvW experience boosters weren't a big deal at all, WvW is account wide and easily upped just WvWing, I had some boosters, I never bothered with them. That's hardly P2W.

The magic find booster was a joke, it didn't effect hardly anything as this game was based on tokens. Maybe you got a couple of fractal shards which let you buy some good rings but if you did fractals you already had dozens of rings without using any booster.

chest keys were for black lion chests which had random items drop from them, people bought them for cosmetic things they held in them such as pets or dyes.

you never played this game did you?

That's not only direct & indirect advantages (P2W), but also inconveniences that make you spend $$$, no matter how you spin it around. If I'm a "hoarder" (read: more dedicated player with more mats & gear sets than you), I have to pay extra? Disgusting.

And sounds like you enjoyed using that shop for those advantages.

Keep defending the corporate greed & bad practices, you're doing gaming a huge service...

And yes, I did play the game (for a week). Too much casual focus & cash shop made me want to vomit (I do admit, I should've done better research on the game before purchasing).

So basically you don't know squat about the game and are talking out of your arse. You also don't know how to read. I said earlier mats had their own separate bank slots that weren't tied to your regular bank. They were free, to anyone.

You don't know how crafting worked.

You don't know how useless boosters are and how no one uses them

Also where did you get hoarder = dedicated? If that's your mindset that's just sad. You're utterly ignorant on the games mechanics and how anything works but yet choose to argue with someone who does. Pathetic.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Storage_Expander

So you are of the mind-set that people who like having lots of item sets in bank should pay more for that "priviledge"? Isn't it enough that they work hard & earn them?

These kind of "you must pay more because you play more" attitudes make me sick, and are essentially what F2P/B2P games revolve on: more dedicated players carrying the freeloaders with their cash purchases.

If you played the game for more then a week you would know how utterly false that statement is. I had atleast 8 different sets for my character and never once had to worry about space. I used gold earned through in game to buy everything I needed. The only thing I ever spent gems on were for armor and weapon skins. The game is definitely not pay to win.

Miszou · January 2015

Kraven wrote: »

LOL, once again proving that the community that is staying is already declining.

My irony detector just overloaded.

grimjim398 · January 2015

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

Nope.

We already have soul gems confirmed in the Crown Store too.

If you believe having soul gems available for purchase in the cash shop equates to Pay 2 Win then you may as well quit playing now.

That's exactly what some of us are doing. Duh.

DDuke · January 2015

Cervanteseric85ub17_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

kieso wrote: »

I wouldn't consider GW2 P2W.

Oh please...
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store

Only one crafting profession if I don't pay 10$?
Hundreds of $$$ to get full inventory & bank space?
WvW Experience Boosters? (AP equivalent)
Rare Item finder boosters? (now that'd be fun with Undaunted helms...)
Chest keys?

One of the most disgusting models out there, that creates inconveniences (such as bank/inventory space) in order to make people use $$$, as well as having P2W elements such as "boosters".

1. You don't need to buy anything from the gem store to craft
2. The bank space and inventory you can buy with gold, but even then it is only a connivence option
3. And lastly booster are connivence

1. You don't need to buy anything to craft, but they've sure made it convenient to buy those things haven't they?
2. Convenience doesn't exist without inconvenience. They are essentially making a game full of inconveniences, and giving players "shortcuts" to avoid them by paying $$$. You'd have to be blind not to see that this is bad game design.
3. Nope, they give you a direct advantage (make you better than others at something). Be that leveling up, gaining gold, finding rare items or getting AP, it is paying $$$ to bypass the effort & hard work other players have to put in. Essentially corruption.

Cervanteseric85ub17_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

kieso wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

kieso wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

kieso wrote: »

I wouldn't consider GW2 P2W.

Oh please...
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store

Only one crafting profession if I don't pay 10$?
Hundreds of $$$ to get full inventory & bank space?
WvW Experience Boosters? (AP equivalent)
Rare Item finder boosters? (now that'd be fun with Undaunted helms...)
Chest keys?

One of the most disgusting models out there, that creates inconveniences (such as bank/inventory space) in order to make people use $$$, as well as having P2W elements such as "boosters".

You could actually have two professions if I remember right but to get a third one you had to deactivate one of them and put it in a queue of sorts to raise the new one. So you could max all crafting on one toon if you wanted if you didn't mind activating/reactivating them. Also in GW2 people had tons of alts do it didn't matter.

You could get full inventory pretty easily w/o ever going to the cash store I had a ton of backpacks from doing the PVE content.

The bank didn't need to be full to get use out of it, it's there for hoarders mostly, especially since crafting materials went into a separate bank space that had a slot for each crafting material up to a stack of 250 per item.

WvW experience boosters weren't a big deal at all, WvW is account wide and easily upped just WvWing, I had some boosters, I never bothered with them. That's hardly P2W.

The magic find booster was a joke, it didn't effect hardly anything as this game was based on tokens. Maybe you got a couple of fractal shards which let you buy some good rings but if you did fractals you already had dozens of rings without using any booster.

chest keys were for black lion chests which had random items drop from them, people bought them for cosmetic things they held in them such as pets or dyes.

you never played this game did you?

That's not only direct & indirect advantages (P2W), but also inconveniences that make you spend $$$, no matter how you spin it around. If I'm a "hoarder" (read: more dedicated player with more mats & gear sets than you), I have to pay extra? Disgusting.

And sounds like you enjoyed using that shop for those advantages.

Keep defending the corporate greed & bad practices, you're doing gaming a huge service...

And yes, I did play the game (for a week). Too much casual focus & cash shop made me want to vomit (I do admit, I should've done better research on the game before purchasing).

So basically you don't know squat about the game and are talking out of your arse. You also don't know how to read. I said earlier mats had their own separate bank slots that weren't tied to your regular bank. They were free, to anyone.

You don't know how crafting worked.

You don't know how useless boosters are and how no one uses them

Also where did you get hoarder = dedicated? If that's your mindset that's just sad. You're utterly ignorant on the games mechanics and how anything works but yet choose to argue with someone who does. Pathetic.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Storage_Expander

So you are of the mind-set that people who like having lots of item sets in bank should pay more for that "priviledge"? Isn't it enough that they work hard & earn them?

These kind of "you must pay more because you play more" attitudes make me sick, and are essentially what F2P/B2P games revolve on: more dedicated players carrying the freeloaders with their cash purchases.

If you played the game for more then a week you would know how utterly false that statement is. I had atleast 8 different sets for my character and never once had to worry about space. I used gold earned through in game to buy everything I needed. The only thing I ever spent gems on were for armor and weapon skins. The game is definitely not pay to win.

LOL

So while you spent your hard-earned gold to purchase "convenience items", someone with $$$ got them for free?
That is even worse than I thought, good thing I abandoned that game early.

You know what is the only reason I still have over 3 million gold in game?

The fact I don't have to put up with that kind of bs in game (yet).

But hey, enjoy being poorer (and thus likely worse geared) than other players and defending what is essentially a $$$->in-game gold conversion.

Enjoy your boosters that make you more efficient player than those without them, players like you probably need all "boost" you can get to be competitive.

Dragath · January 2015

are there really players that think pure convenience (what Zenimax understands as "convenience" will change quite a lot over time, you will see) items will make enough money for a game that desperately needs income?
as someone else said, console release will boost the numbers, but that wont last for long.
just relax, because all these threads wont change anything and see how the shop will look in one year from now.