Water Overhaul Suggestion

Gidorick

OK… so… this is pretty much impossible now with buy to play but I wrote this a few weeks back and was still mulling over the details. Since I don’t feel much like putting any more effort into it I figured I would just post it and have at it.

There are many that feel ESO is sorely missing underwater environments. However, this is part of a much larger issue of how ESO handles large bodies of water and how players interact with that water. Below is an overview for a Water Overhaul suggestion that will add quite a bit of needed depth to ESO…. Pun completely intended.

There are Four main components of the below water overhaul:
1: Surface Tessellation Variations
3: Buoyancy & Drag
2: Underwater Environments
4: Water Combat

Surface Tessellation Variations

The surface of the bodies of water in ESO is quite beautiful but the lack of variation makes water seem quite boring. Mostly, the surface of water should act as it does in many other MMOs and produce bow waves as a player or NPC moves through the water and concentric ripple waves when a player jumps in and out of the water.

Additionally, large bodies of water (lakes and oceans that the player can swim through) should have waves of varying intensity depending on the weather. If there is a storm above, there should be a disturbance below. It would also be nice if the more tumultuous the water, the slower a player is able to swim over the waves.

Buoyancy & Drag:

Currently, boats and ships sit like buildings and do not have the feeling of being in the water. Ships should rock and sway with the water. Smaller boats should react when a player jumps into them by momentarily oscillating up and down. Adding buoyancy to watercraft would go a long way in creating believable and compelling ships and boats in ESO.

Additionally, Horses should be able to swim in water but that might be more a mount issue than it is a water issue.

Each armor piece could have a new value of Drag value added to each armor piece. Heavy armor pieces would have a higher Drag than light armor. The Drag values of each piece of armor could add up to the Total Drag, which determines a player’s base swimming speed. Using this system would allow players to shed armor and swim faster. A player who is going to spend a considerable amount of time in the water may want to simply go without any armor whatsoever to minimize their Total Drag.

Underwater Environments

An often requested feature for ESO is the ability to swim underwater. Underwater environments have been prominent in both MMOs and TES games, so the exclusion from the game seems like a gross oversight. Once the mechanics of underwater swimming are added to ESO, the various underwater environments around Tamriel could be added over time. Not every single swimmable body of water needs to have a fully realized underwater environment as soon as the system is released.

Obviously, every race but the Argonians should have a breath meter when underwater. Special potions, enchantments and skills could increase the length of the breath meter and could even provide water-breathing much in the same way as other Elder Scrolls games.

Underwater environments should offer Material Farming, Treasure Chests, Entrances and Enemies.

New materials should be added for

• Chitin and Morag Tong Motifs
• Water based Enchantments (including water breathing)
• Water based potions (including water breathing)
• Water based provisioning (Slaughterfish stew)

Treasure Chests should be a prominent part of underwater exploration. Both visible and buried treasures with maps should be included. They could be found in shipwrecks, hidden in reefs, or just out in the open. This doesn’t mean that treasure chests should be the only means of item discovery. There could also be wardrobes, desks, dressers, boxes, and barrels from shipwrecks along the ocean floor.

Entrances to underwater caves and delves could lead players to waterlogged dungeons and pirate hideouts, leading to new quests and storylines.

Just as on land, there should be water-based enemies for the player to battle. Slaughterfish schools should approach and attack the player, just as they do now, but they should be a visible swarm that the player can attack. Of course, the battle would be futile and the swarm would be a never-ending onslaught, but it would be fun for a player to see how long they can survive! There could even be a leaderboard for the number of Slaughterfish killed.

A few enemies should be able to follow the player into and out of the water, such as Land Dreughs and Crocodiles.

Pets shouldn’t swim underwater with the player but should act the same way they currently do when a player goes swimming.

Each zone should have a water based Area Boss with an achievement for killing all water-bosses. In fact, the underwater achievements should treat the underwater areas as their own “zone” so the player must travel the breadth of Tamriel to complete all tasks and retrieve achievements.

Water Combat

While I believe water combat is needed I don’t think the combat should be as fully realized as it is on land. Combat should be more difficult in the water and should have the following issues/limitations:

• Hot-bar skills shouldn’t be available while in the water, with the exception of the AquaBorn skill tree (proposed below)
• Attack speed is reduced 50% while in the water

All players should have access to the AquaBorn world-skill tree. All players should be able to swim atop and below the water. Since Argonians have an advantage, because they can breathe underwater, they should have a disadvantage that all other players do not have, a defense de-buff while in the water.

AquaBorn Skill Tree

ULTIMATE:
Amphibious Assault: The ability to select an enemy on the shore and launch from the water to attack the enemy.
-Amphibious Sneak: Attacks from the water are always undetected
-Amphibious Impact: Knocks the enemy down when attacked

ACTIVE:
Water Dash: A fast sprint through the water. (Stamina draw)
-Dash Attack: Dash causes damage to those in the way
-Quick Dash: Dash is 50% faster
Aqua Rush: 50% Increased attack speed for 10 seconds (Stamina draw)
-Rush Attack: 25% Increased Damage for 10 seconds
-Extended Rush: Additional 5 seconds of increased attack speed
Current Pulse: An attack that creates a forward pulse current, damaging the target (Magica Draw)
-Undertow Pulse: Draws the target to the player
-Pulse Drown: A 50% breath reduction on target
Flowing Salvation: A bubble that encompasses the player, restores breath %100 and heals player 50% (Magica Draw)
-Salvation Pop: Pulse that damages enemies in a specific radius surrounding the player
-Salvation Burst: Pulse knocks back and temporarily stuns enemies in a specific radius surrounding the player.

PASSIVE:
Surface Stroke
- 50% faster surface swimming speed
- 25% faster surface swimming speed
Sub-Surface Stroke
- 50% faster underwater swimming speed
- 25% faster underwater swimming speed
Aqua Attack
- 25% faster attack speed while in water
- 25% faster attack speed while in water
Deep Breath (Argonians do not have this available since they do not have a breath meter)
- 25% longer breath holding
- 25% longer breath holding
Iron Scales (An Argonian ONLY skill)
- 25% decrease to the defense debuff
- 50% decreate to the defense debuff

Adding underwater environments and combat could literally add worlds of play to ESO. Players could spend hours treasure hunting or simply exploring. No matter what the system or how robust the environments, underwater exploration are a must for the future of ESO.

Thoughts?

timidobserver

GW2 made me hate water combat. It is a massive waste of resources. I do not support it adding it into ESO.

Gidorick

timidobserver wrote: »

GW2 made me hate water combat. It is a massive waste of resources. I do not support it adding it into ESO.

Even with the limitations suggested? What about just underwater exploration... not that we will ever get it now...

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Vampire player's shouldn't have a breath meter either it just does not make sense because they are undead and the undead shouldn't breath because they are a reanimated corpse, if they had to breath that would indicate they were alive which they aren't, ever single ES vampire mod I came across from Morrowind to Skyrim gave vampire's the ability to stay underwater indefinitely.

NotSo

Not a big fan of water combat but everything else is at least needed for immersion

Gidorick

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Vampire player's shouldn't have a breath meter either it just does not make sense because they are undead and the undead shouldn't breath because they are a reanimated corpse, if they had to breath that would indicate they were alive which they aren't, ever single ES vampire mod I came across from Morrowind to Skyrim gave vampire's the ability to stay underwater indefinitely.

Interesting thought but in TES vampires aren't "undead", it's more like they're afflicted. I'm pretty sure they breath.

Panda244

As far as the combat goes, lol no. Great time and effort but just no.

Now underwater exploration hell yes, I fully support that.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Vampire player's shouldn't have a breath meter either it just does not make sense because they are undead and the undead shouldn't breath because they are a reanimated corpse, if they had to breath that would indicate they were alive which they aren't, ever single ES vampire mod I came across from Morrowind to Skyrim gave vampire's the ability to stay underwater indefinitely.

Vampires in 90% of vampire, including TES lore are usually incapacitated by things that would normally kill a mortal. Including asphyxiation, won't kill them, just render them unconscious... So.... Maybe they gain a buff to breathing since they don't need it to survive... But they need it to circulate blood.

Gidorick

Hey I'd be 100% cool with no water combat! I was just trying to make it a more well-rounded concept. I think combat COULD be fun but mostly... I want to explore.

As far as Vampires not drowning... Perhaps a severe slowdown in swimming speed would do the trick. Sure, drowning doesn't kill them but it could be a real pain to not have any breath. Give the player an incentive to come up for air.

SanderBuraas

I agree with the others here. I'm all for exploration and underwater content, but not combat or a skill line.

sagitter

would be awesome, and the argonian passive would be usefull.

TheShadowScout

Gidorick wrote: »

OK… so… this is pretty much impossible now with buy to play but I wrote this a few weeks back and was still mulling over the details. Since I don’t feel much like putting any more effort into it I figured I would just post it and have at it.

We all know that ESO is sorely missing underwater environments. However, this is part of a much larger issue of how ESO handles large bodies of water and how players interact with that water. Below is an overview for a Water Overhaul suggestion that will add quite a bit of needed depth to ESO…. Pun completely intended.

True, and it would be nice to have all the water in ESO change... someday.

Gidorick wrote: »

Buoyancy & Drag:
-snip-

Boats and ships swaying may be possible, depending on the game system. Not sure how easy, and how much resources it would take... that's for the code crunchers to determine, if the added immersion is worth the added computer resource fdrain...
But also, repositioning them, I remember noticing some of the boats ride far to high in the water even for unloaded hulls...

Drag - I always wanted something like that, though I think it should do more then just reduce swimming speed.
- Add to stamina cost for swimming - if sprinting costs stamina, swimming should as well, at least swimming forward (there may need to be a way to recover stamina to not get stuck in mid water and drown... hmmm... on the other hand...). And that should be highly dependent on what is worn... in underwear, the swimming cost should be small (possibly reduced to nearly none with passives), in heavy armor, immense.
- Affect buoyancy - the old sink or swim question, full heavy armor should definitely "sink like a stone" and be able to slowly walk on the bottom, medium and light should swim, smart divers may want to adjust their usual attire for underwater action...

I would think, maybe have each piece of light armor add +3% to stamina penalty and swimming speed reduction (meaning, +21% stamina cost and -21% swim speed in full light), medium armor gets 7% (49% for full gear) and heavy armor, 15% (which means a full plate main has you at +105% stamina cost and -105% swim speed, dropping your swimming speed below immobile, which would drag your character to the bottom unless they shed their armor...)

So, for free underwater movement, people will want to go in their underwear... which is what divers all over history have preferred until the invention of diving suits!
(Note - we may need better underwear grafics, the ones our poor characters have right now are painfully "mordern looking". Give us pearl divers loincloths darnit )

Gidorick wrote: »

Underwater Environments
-snip-
Obviously, every race but the Argonians should have a breath meter when underwater. Special potions, enchantments and skills could increase the length of the breath meter.

Hmmm... that question may need to be adressed. I know traditionally argonians have been a bit underwatery, but... I wonder if it would not be better to adjust that, giving them a much longer breath holding capability instead, yet still requiring them to come up for air every once in a while. Think "crocodile" instead of "truly amphibous".
I think it would fit their portrayal in the game much better, reptile instead of amphibous, their homes seem all adapted to above-water living, etc.
And whoever paid for the license gets to make rules and occasional retcons...

Gidorick wrote: »

Water Combat

While I believe water combat is needed I don’t think the combat should be as fully realized as it is on land. Combat should be more difficult in the water and should have the following issues/limitations:

• Hot-bar skills shouldn’t be available while in the water, with the exception of the AquaBorn skill tree (proposed below)
• Attack speed is reduced 50% while in the water

That would make it very cumbersome. Better way to go about it would be, leave the skills active, reduce the basic attack speed, but also change the effect of skills.

Some possible ideas:
- reduce all weapon attacks and skill damage to half (swinging a sword against water resistance... the reduce in speed will also reduce the damage on impact I would think...)
- reduce all elemental damage to a ¼ (all physical spells will be dampened by the water, though we might dispense with the backfire they could cause... - fire = steam in the casters face, lightning = shock courself too, ice = freeze your wand off...)
- reduce all weapon and spell ranges by at least half, neither arrows nor spells might travel through water as easiy as through air
- reduce all charges by 80% in range and charge speed.
- Some spell effects may be completely unusable, others may change. Rooting effects for example could be either ineffective (no ground to root them to) or changed (add drag instead of rooting). Also, some AoE spells could change from damage to effect... or hit everyone, caster included. (Pop that standard of might? It'll boil the water for everyone... even you...)
- add a little knockback to all attacks, for both attacker and defender.

That way, people don't have to change their skill bar for underwater activities, but will find their usual playstyle to be changed anyways...

Gidorick wrote: »

All players should have access to the AquaBorn world-skill tree. All players should be able to swim atop and below the water. Since Argonians have an advantage, because they can breathe underwater, they should have a disadvantage that all other players do not have, a defense de-buff while in the water.

I think that one would be better done without any active skills, just a collection of passives to let people have more swimming/diving skill and maybe reduce underwater combat penalties.
I also wouldn't give argonians a defense debuff... makes no sense. Let them have an unique advantage, without a disadvantage in water to balance. Not like it is that big of a deal... as long as others have ample access to rings & potions of water breathing. (they -could- get a extra disadvantage in cold regions though, it'd fit the theme...)

Gidorick wrote: »

Adding underwater environments and combat could literally add worlds of play to ESO. Players could spend hours treasure hunting or simply exploring. No matter what the system or how robust the environments, underwater exploration are a must for the future of ESO.

I like these ideas a lot!
It would also make a lot of sense to bundle all that into an "Maomer" DLC expansion coming one day in the distant future... questing in the land (or waters, as the case may be) of the sea elves.

Artheiron

Can't tell you how I missed diving in water in this game...

I played GW2 for long time, I admit I hate underwater combat. It doesn't make sense too, so I'd say no to underwater combat.

But, that'd be so cool if they add diving and find a purpose to Z axis in this game. Can be used in dungeons to access a certain area, can be used for exploration, can be used for mining rare materials, plants, fishing. I always imagined myself after beating a boss cave collapses then my group mates and I find ourselves swimming in a tunnel avoiding the falling rocks then finding ourselves stucked in a dark room and try find a way out with holding our torches in our hands. It's challanging, stressful in a funny way. So fingers crossed. I hope we'll see it in future.

Other than that travelling on boats and stuff are indeed cool but I don't think there's a proper infrastructure this game has to handle it. But surely there can be trials that we need to sail and fight in the open seas like in this video forgot the quest's name. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQgfF9F_EmM

Water interaction is only a part of the problem. If they want to make an epic mmorpg game they must remember why people play these games. To believe that they are in another world.

Nope you can't climb that ladder. Nope you can't dive in water. Hell no you can't pass that invisible wall we put beneath the rocks. Play music? sure you can play our prefabric red diamond track with your /lute. Housing? go break one and can't sit in a chair. Can't see other faction people in their homeland, because they are all INVISIBLE. Justice? All cities are linked. pay your fine or get killed. No jails because all cities controlled by a radical terrorist organization. What the hell seriously?

Sometimes, content isn't just new playable areas and dungeons.

Gidorick

Artheiron wrote: »

Can't tell you how I missed diving in water in this game...

I played GW2 for long time, I admit I hate underwater combat. It doesn't make sense too, so I'd say no to underwater combat.

But, that'd be so cool if they add diving and find a purpose to Z axis in this game. Can be used in dungeons to access a certain area, can be used for exploration, can be used for mining rare materials, plants, fishing. I always imagined myself after beating a boss cave collapses then my group mates and I find ourselves swimming in a tunnel avoiding the falling rocks then finding ourselves stucked in a dark room and try find a way out with holding our torches in our hands. It's challanging, stressful in a funny way. So fingers crossed. I hope we'll see it in future.

Other than that travelling on boats and stuff are indeed cool but I don't think there's a proper infrastructure this game has to handle it. But surely there can be trials that we need to sail and fight in the open seas like in this video forgot the quest's name. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQgfF9F_EmM

Water interaction is only a part of the problem. If they want to make an epic mmorpg game they must remember why people play these games. To believe that they are in another world.

Nope you can't climb that ladder. Nope you can't dive in water. Hell no you can't pass that invisible wall we put beneath the rocks. Play music? sure you can play our prefabric red diamond track with your /lute. Housing? go break one and can't sit in a chair. Can't see other faction people in their homeland, because they are all INVISIBLE. Justice? All cities are linked. pay your fine or get killed. No jails because all cities controlled by a radical terrorist organization. What the hell seriously?

Sometimes, content isn't just new playable areas and dungeons.

You and I are VERY much on the same page. To me, getting an immersive, tangible world is what will keep me playing ESO... without that, after questing, eh.... nothing to keep me here.

Endurance

underwater combat? guards and monsters reset & end combat once u jump into the water.. hows that gonna work?

Gidorick

Endurance wrote: »

underwater combat? guards and monsters reset & end combat once u jump into the water.. hows that gonna work?

That would have to be part of the overhaul I guess! Or just not have water combat.

Selique

I fully support Underwater exploration and combat. I thought ArchAge was AMAZING with its nautical systems. Boats and swimming underwater. It really was amazing.

I really like a lot of the proposed ideas in the thread. I feel like it needs some tweaking, but overall, I support this 100%,

Rune_Relic

Selique wrote: »

I fully support Underwater exploration and combat. I thought ArchAge was AMAZING with its nautical systems. Boats and swimming underwater. It really was amazing.

I really like a lot of the proposed ideas in the thread. I feel like it needs some tweaking, but overall, I support this 100%,

It was already stated in ESO live there would never be underwater activity of any sort (especially combat) as it requires 3D movement rather than 2D movement.
Basically a whole can of worms ZOS doesn't want t deal with.
You can imagine the lag right ? lol

Gidorick

Date on this thread is January 21st.... quite a bit before the ESO Armchair developer segment. Of course, them saying they don't want to deal with underwater environments... and their weird talk about seahorse mounts... doesn't stop me from thinking the water systems is something that is sorely missing from ESO.

Rune_Relic

Gidorick wrote: »

Date on this thread is January 21st.... quite a bit before the ESO Armchair developer segment. Of course, them saying they don't want to deal with underwater environments... and their weird talk about seahorse mounts... doesn't stop me from thinking the water systems is something that is sorely missing from ESO.

I know my friend. I wasnt digging at you. I quoted the necromancer

CaptFuse

Loved underwater exploring in Skyrim, it would be great to add skills like swimming, boats making, ...
Keep combat limited

Gidorick

CaptFuse wrote: »

Loved underwater exploring in Skyrim, it would be great to add skills like swimming, boats making, ...
Keep combat limited

Personally, I wouldn't mind if underwater combat simply made it so your action bars are not available. Weapons only.

Young_Archiebold

While water exploration would be nice (combat would NOT) it is in no way, shape, or form "sorely needed" this game can go on forever without a second thought about water and it will be fine.

Gidorick

Young_Archiebold wrote: »

While water exploration would be nice (combat would NOT) it is in no way, shape, or form "sorely needed" this game can go on forever without a second thought about water and it will be fine.

That is your opinion @Young_Archiebold . There are many of us that feel as if water exclusion is detrimental to the overall immersiveness of ESO. Especially those of us who have Argonian characters.

But I did change the opening "We all know that" to 'There are many that feel" to reflect that not everyone feels the way I do.

Young_Archiebold

Gidorick wrote: »

Young_Archiebold wrote: »

While water exploration would be nice (combat would NOT) it is in no way, shape, or form "sorely needed" this game can go on forever without a second thought about water and it will be fine.

That is your opinion @Young_Archiebold . There are many of us that feel as if water exclusion is detrimental to the overall immersiveness of ESO. Especially those of us who have Argonian characters.

Well the part about the game going on without it is fact, and thank god for it.

JamilaRaj

Gidorick wrote: »

Young_Archiebold wrote: »

While water exploration would be nice (combat would NOT) it is in no way, shape, or form "sorely needed" this game can go on forever without a second thought about water and it will be fine.

That is your opinion @Young_Archiebold . There are many of us that feel as if water exclusion is detrimental to the overall immersiveness of ESO. Especially those of us who have Argonian characters.

Not to speak of whales. Water overhaul would be whale paradise. There could be entirely new mounts (e.g. walrus mount) and costumes (mermaid) in the crown store.
Now imagine air overhaul - flying mounts!!! Dragons, pegasi, gnomish dive bombers (in Cyrodiil)...

FancyTuna8

I don't understand why they couldn't make underwater exploration sort of a "portal" travel mechanism. You could enter the water at certain points, and when you did it loaded a new screen. Change the graphics to look like you are underwater, maybe make the hair float, and change the movement. Don't allow combat if it is too much of a headache, but let us explore, and populate a few denizens that we can't harm and have to run/hide from. I'm thinking of things where you could go into a sunken ship's hull and close a door and latch it so that an eel/shark/fish/tentacled leviathan couldn't follow you, then you have to find an alternate way out. Let us craft something that allows for extended underwater breathing, but takes good materials and time to make. And also something that allows for lighting underwater, but again is a crafter consumable hard to make so we aren't just popping 99 into an inventory slot.

That, or make it so that water is completely feared--I'm talking tentacles that occasionally grab you and start pulling you into the water if you are too close to the shore, and you have to work furiously to claw your way free and scramble out of reach. Or something dragony that snaps out of the water and bites at you. Make me fear gathering wood laying on the shoreline if you are going to present water as being unexploreable.

Ra'Shtar

Edit: Ugh its a necro post

Gidorick

I like the way you think @FancyTuna8 . While you are right about the portal system I think that would be functionally worse than what we have now. Could you imagine swimming along the top of the water, hitting the dive button... loading... loading... loading... underwater now, but you want to be on the surface... loading.. loading... loading...

Most of us are in agreement that we don't NEED underwater combat but underwater exploration is VERY desired. I personally think the response of "but its haaaarrrrrrd" is complete bullpooey. Games from the 90s had underwater content. If the reason it wasn't added is truly because it's difficult then that just shows the lack of capability on the dev team.

As for underwater breathing, the TES series has always had potions and amulets of waterbreathng and argonians can breathe underwater. So yes to these things!!

Gidorick

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Edit: Ugh its a necro post

With some still very valid content and comments. Why is a post being old viewed as a determent to its value @Ra'Shtar ?

Kalifas

TheShadowScout wrote:

Drag - I always wanted something like that, though I think it should do more then just reduce swimming speed.
- Add to stamina cost for swimming - if sprinting costs stamina, swimming should as well, at least swimming forward (there may need to be a way to recover stamina to not get stuck in mid water and drown... hmmm... on the other hand...). And that should be highly dependent on what is worn... in underwear, the swimming cost should be small (possibly reduced to nearly none with passives), in heavy armor, immense.
- Affect buoyancy - the old sink or swim question, full heavy armor should definitely "sink like a stone" and be able to slowly walk on the bottom, medium and light should swim, smart divers may want to adjust their usual attire for underwater action...

Swimming should cost stamina. Perhaps a mechanic similar to sprint but in this case it would be float or paddle. The style of armor should also determine how fast one can sink or reach the surface. Light sink and surface fast, with medium being a bit slower.

Gidorick wrote:

Water Combat

While I believe water combat is needed I don’t think the combat should be as fully realized as it is on land. Combat should be more difficult in the water and should have the following issues/limitations:

• Hot-bar skills shouldn’t be available while in the water, with the exception of the AquaBorn skill tree (proposed below)
• Attack speed is reduced 50% while in the water

TheShadowScout wrote:

That would make it very cumbersome. Better way to go about it would be, leave the skills active, reduce the basic attack speed, but also change the effect of skills.

Some possible ideas:
- reduce all weapon attacks and skill damage to half (swinging a sword against water resistance... the reduce in speed will also reduce the damage on impact I would think...)
- reduce all elemental damage to a ¼ (all physical spells will be dampened by the water, though we might dispense with the backfire they could cause... - fire = steam in the casters face, lightning = shock courself too, ice = freeze your wand off...)
- reduce all weapon and spell ranges by at least half, neither arrows nor spells might travel through water as easiy as through air
- reduce all charges by 80% in range and charge speed.
- Some spell effects may be completely unusable, others may change. Rooting effects for example could be either ineffective (no ground to root them to) or changed (add drag instead of rooting). Also, some AoE spells could change from damage to effect... or hit everyone, caster included. (Pop that standard of might? It'll boil the water for everyone... even you...)
- add a little knockback to all attacks, for both attacker and defender.

That way, people don't have to change their skill bar for underwater activities, but will find their usual playstyle to be changed anyways...

A one size fits all would make water combat the least immersive and while it would require thought, it wouldn't require different avenues of thought.

My thoughts:
-Reduce all weapon attacks and skill damage by half(Due to water friction)
-Water, Ice, and Lightning have environmental effects while things which water counters like fire are non castable or damage cut in half.
-Reduce range by 40% but I think charges shouldn't take a hit or it would slow things down too much.
-Skill lines introduced that are unlockable to allow traversal in water to be more accessible.

FancyTuna8

I like your posts quite a bit, Gidorick. In fact, I was looking for that one you did with a poster of the genealogy of the species/gods when I came across this.

I'm thinking that the developers do not view water as worth the investment because of the amount of manpower and the potential risk of hitting brick walls during the development. Which is why I was thinking going underwater would be the same as entering a door/portal to another area. Like when you get to the bridge/border that takes you from one province to another in the game. If the choice is nothing in the water, or working it like I just mentioned, I'll take the limited underwater use. I'm assuming the investment to make combat work isn't worth it either to the devs, but I am guessing that simply making the physics of movement different to reflect moving in the water could work. Without combat, underwater environments would be relegated to exploration and possibly running from predators you can't defeat or injure. Which is as it should be. The idea of fighting any creature made to move in the water well is ridiculous. I'm a good swimmer, and have been since high school. I would not be able to deliver a punch or sword thrust in the water that wouldn't fall flat unless I had pinned my opponent against a solid surface. I personally would like it if we could go underwater and explore ancient sites, especially Dwemer ruins that are completely underwater, or have some chambers with air. Exploration would be too peaceful without the threat of something chasing you, and potentially using lighting we carry with us (since weapons would be useless) it could be extra creepy to round a corner and find an eel staring at us.
Plus then we get the fun of getting back on dry land and forgetting to equip our weapon, thrusting a magic lantern/glowy ball at enemies instead of a sword.
By taking a smaller, more manageable step like this, the developers could then decide if trying to make water work fully, as in swimming along the surface and diving, etc., was achievable.
In the long-term potential of the game, if it survives and the devs eventually fill most of the world with dlc, they would look to further development of the game and come to the conclusion that the entirety of underwater would vastly expand the game world. Exploring and developing gameplay such as player-created lighting and movement in different density material with vertical movement could be useful in other areas. Imagine a slime/gelatinous creature that could absorb you and your character has to claw/climb their way out.