My personal proposal to stop block casting.

Emencie

woodsro wrote: »

I would hope that their has to be a better solution then Animation Canceling...it feels clunky, it feels like it doesn't belong...it really shouldn't be ttheir...they should figure out what adjustments need to be made to keep things viable and remove it.

I don't see how. Honestly you have to be able to stop what you are doing to block, in essence canceling your action to go into blocking mode. There is no way around it, else no one would be able to block in a fight. Just wait for your opponent to attack then lay into them. Why not they cant block.

The only other option would be to make all spells and skills fire at the end of the animation rather than the beginning. The major problem there is that animation canceling and block cast timing are the only skillful parts of play in ESO.

For example right now a standard attack sequence for me can look something like

1. Block
2. (block cast) Charge
3. Block
4. (block cast) Talons
5. (animation cancel) Block
6. (block cast) Engulfing flames
7. (animation cancel) Block
8. Light attack
9. (animation cancel) Flame lash
10. (animation cancel) Block
11. Light attack
12. (animation cancel) Flame lash
13. (animation cancel) Block hold.

At any point in this sequence I can easily decide to call off the attack and hold the block cancel, or swap in other skills of course. All in all I use 7 skills in about the time a person not block casting/animation canceling can use 3 to 4 (depending on animation time and how "Zen" I am that day.) Meanwhile without being able to block cast or animation cancel, the same sequence in the same amount of time would look something like this.

1. Charge
2. Wait for animation to finish
3. Talons
4. Wait for animation to finish
5. Light attack
6. Wait for animation to finish
7. Flame lash

The major skill here is in the timing, with animation canceling a skilled player can use 3 skills in the time it takes another player to use 2, an incredibly skilled player can use 3 skills in the time it would normally take to do 1. Everyone that animation cancels will tell you sometimes with lag, and movement your timing can be off and things take longer to fire off correctly, or you are too fast and cut off an attack accidentally, not to mention always trying to weave in another attack, (of course sometimes you get greedy and try to weave in a light attack and pay for it).

Looking at the two examples it clear why so many people dislike animation canceling, because it is not easy or simple. If it was, no one would care because everyone could do it.
If ZoS takes that away it would make for a very stale PvP environment for the more skilled players. Though I agree that especially since it was not intended it should be looked at. Skill shouldn't be the end all in an MMO since gear and stats should play a role. But I highly suggest we don't remove the only personal skill based functionality we have in this game.

Beerbill

@Trayyacakes‌ people are asking to nerf block-casting not block (so is not the case to nerf damage overall) and the excuses that other classes have escaping mechanisms is flawed because you can't heal yourself while bolting or stealth but you can when using block.

The biggest problem with block-casting in my opinion is that you don't lose you your offensive potential while holding a defensive position (just another exemple how this is superior to mechanics like cloaking or bolting). As someone stated in another post of this matter the solution for this should be while blocking you can use spells but they should be less effective (like 50%, this for heals or damage), in that scenario you would have to choose increase your offensive potential at cost of your defense or keep your defense at cost of your efficiency.

I find that solution the best for this problem since some people really enjoy this mechanic and prohibit it's use may hurt those people feelings lel .

SFBryan18

Whatever happens when you swap weapons should be the same for blocking. Either cancel cast or give a message that you are busy.

Trayyacakes

Beerbill wrote: »

@Trayyacakes‌ people are asking to nerf block-casting not block (so is not the case to nerf damage overall) and the excuses that other classes have escaping mechanisms is flawed because you can't heal yourself while bolting or stealth but you can when using block.

The biggest problem with block-casting in my opinion is that you don't lose you your offensive potential while holding a defensive position (just another exemple how this is superior to mechanics like cloaking or bolting). As someone stated in another post of this matter the solution for this should be while blocking you can use spells but they should be less effective (like 50%, this for heals or damage), in that scenario you would have to choose increase your offensive potential at cost of your defense or keep your defense at cost of your efficiency.

I find that solution the best for this problem since some people really enjoy this mechanic and prohibit it's use may hurt those people feelings lel .

Every class has access to block heals via resto staff (not as effective as templar heals or GDB I know), and the possibility of a clean get away via BE or Cloak is superior to block healing in my opinion.

Block casting is necessary in the current meta. You can argue with it all you want, but it won't change. TTK for melee builds would be near instant without it, and reducing damage by 50% while blocking would make melee useless. There are enough bow users in the game now, do you want all bow users?

I personally don't have a problem with the mechanics as is, but if/when it does get changed if damage doesn't get scaled down in Cyrodiil when it is changed it will be the death of melee players in pvp.

Melee damage dealers in every MMO need to be able to do more damage than range, need some survivability, and generally need an escape. Templars and DK version of an escape is RS/Blazing Shield + run and heal. Nightblades and Sorcs have a proper escape. Nightblades may or not be broken atm, but you get the point. Every class has access to damage shields/armor buffs for survivability. Melee range AOEs do more damage than range ones.

The problem comes that the added defense you get from SnS, you lose no offense making it the go to Melee setup (especially for magicka builds), and Light armor gives too much survivability. This set up in the current game gives you a tank that does as much damage as a dps. The Tank in pvp is generally hard to kill and an annoyance. He throws out roots, stuns, and debuffs like skittles. In this game the tank is the most dangerous player in PvP. It has little to do with block casting and more to do with armor/weapon problems.

Cody

reduce damage done while blocking by 75%, that way cowards "stategical block users" can still hide behind their blocks use their blocks as much as they want, but will not have high offense with high defense

Beerbill

Cody wrote: »

reduce damage done while blocking by 75%, that way cowards "stategical block users" can still hide behind their blocks use their blocks as much as they want, but will not have high offense with high defense

Because simply press the awesome button would not suffice.

facemace

IMO they first need to admit they were wrong and change heavy attack / block interactions to be the same as they were in previous games. Namely, melee heavy attack beats block. With bashing beating heavy attacks and heavy attacks beating block it would feel a lot more like a give and take.

A lot of people have been suggesting a higher stam penalty for blocking, but that would just be a MASSIVE buff for green dragon blood and DKs in general. Not sure if that's what the game needs.

As for reduced dmg for block caster abilities, I think it is a good idea, but the numbers suggested in some posts is rediculous. Even 10% for stam abilities and 20% for magicka would be a game changer.

Come to think of it that could fix animation canceling as well. Allow it, for the sake of "responsiveness", but scale the results (dmg, shield strength, cc duration, etc) on the % of the animation allowed to complete, plus a slight bonus on top for a full completion.

burningcrow

What if you could choose which kind of block? There is standing block for most attacks, low block for ground AOE like flames, and high block over head for Arrows. Show Shift block for high, and alt block for low or something. That would at least force a choice which would keep other areas vulnerable.

technohic

facemace wrote: »

IMO they first need to admit they were wrong and change heavy attack / block interactions to be the same as they were in previous games. Namely, melee heavy attack beats block. With bashing beating heavy attacks and heavy attacks beating block it would feel a lot more like a give and take.
.

If you did this part, it wouldn't help either. If you are already blocking and see someone lining up a heavy attack, you are just a left click away from interrupting the heavy attack and you still will be blocking.

Just make it to where your right mouse button does a block the same way your left mouse button does an attack. Tap for a quick block, hold for just a little longer to where you can left click for an interrupt, but have it complete the same way it does a heavy, melee attack.

Make it reactive in stead of an always on ability.