My personal proposal to stop block casting.

Charadras

Block can be bash. If you perma block a player can bash you with the consequence of that (off balance, max damage from bash).
What do you think about this?

TheShadowScout

I would say, just make block unavailabe after you cast while blocking for a second or two, give them a chance to get in a riposte.

And make block only 180° front, but turn the character into look direction as light/heavy attacks do for those who use 3rdP view.

That oughta do it...

facemace

I have considered the bash breaking block idea, but I think it might end up with comical shield flapping contests in practice. As for 180 deg, there really is a reason that does not work when global lag is taken into account.

suycyco

I've thought of something to, to put a new spell (In my opinion in the 2H weapon would be the most accurate in matter or RP maybe a morph of the charge) to breack the block , if you do it to a player blocking it's cause off balance and he cannot block for dunno 2sec and if he s not it's just do some minimal damage.
Doing this it'll only affect pvp and let the pve players free to do donjon without any change.

The problem of the bash it's that you can do it perma blocking ...

Volla

This blocking contest is really out of hand and these DK is Block and flap flap. NB block SAP SAP. Sorc Block blink blink shield. have to be a limit to blocking yes. or make block for 1 sec and 0.5 sec CD that would also do it.

facemace wrote: »

I have considered the bash breaking block idea, but I think it might end up with comical shield flapping contests in practice. As for 180 deg, there really is a reason that does not work when global lag is taken into account.

And for the 180 degrees i hardly believes it will effect the server that much. it allready calculate what degree you are standing in. and if you add an 180 degree to the block its fixed on the char allready same as you can't attack for 180 degrees.

RinaldoGandolphi

I think your idea is very close OP

They just need to go back to the classic TES fight mechanics which are as follows:

Block will Block Light Attacks and Spells.

Heavy Attack will break Block and off-balance the Blocker.

Bash will interrupt heavy attack and off-balance the attacker.

Exception to this is staff heavy attacks which you would have to make them do 75% damage through the block, as staff heavy attacks breaking block at range completely don't make sense,and would be OP, but should do more damage to compensate for not breaking the block.

Staff heavy attacks can still be bashed to be interrupted. Staff users can bash to interrupt other heavy attack types.

Also ranged interrupts such as Venom Arrow and Crushing Shock should also interrupt heavy attacks from staffs and melee weapons.

You would also have to slightly up the cost of bash so we don't have a game consisting of a bashing contest, but this seems to be the best way to go about it.

Right now, its too easy to stand and hold block....I know in both Oblivion and Skyrim a heavy attack will break block and stagger the blocker...I think it was this way in Morrowind too if i recall (its been awhile since i played that one and Daggerfall)

This IMO is the best system implement as it has clear uses and makes sense all around, and would actually add to the combat depth of this game.

Marenne

make block for 1 sec and 0.5 sec CD that would also do it.

Niceeee!! and we you block a Hard-Boss in a trials?

Gorthax

woodsro wrote: »

I think your idea is very close OP

They just need to go back to the classic TES fight mechanics which are as follows:

Block will Block Light Attacks and Spells.

Heavy Attack will break Block and off-balance the Blocker.

Bash will interrupt heavy attack and off-balance the attacker.

Exception to this is staff heavy attacks which you would have to make them do 75% damage through the block, as staff heavy attacks breaking block at range completely don't make sense,and would be OP, but should do more damage to compensate for not breaking the block.

Staff heavy attacks can still be bashed to be interrupted. Staff users can bash to interrupt other heavy attack types.

Also ranged interrupts such as Venom Arrow and Crushing Shock should also interrupt heavy attacks from staffs and melee weapons.

You would also have to slightly up the cost of bash so we don't have a game consisting of a bashing contest, but this seems to be the best way to go about it.

Right now, its too easy to stand and hold block....I know in both Oblivion and Skyrim a heavy attack will break block and stagger the blocker...I think it was this way in Morrowind too if i recall (its been awhile since i played that one and Daggerfall)

This IMO is the best system implement as it has clear uses and makes sense all around, and would actually add to the combat depth of this game.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ look someone figured out the permablockcasting issue for you guys!!! No more do you need to "try to figure out a fix" either use this idea or grey out the skills while blocking! So easy! 9 months is too long for this to still be a thing

Edit: Yes I know pve blah blah blah lol but bosses do not attack 24/7 and dropping your guard to animation cancel something will see that you still get to block those dangerous attacks! Everyone wins!

onlinegamer1

Here is an even better idea:

L2P.

RinaldoGandolphi

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Here is an even better idea:

L2P.

This is not a L2P issue. The only ones who support block casting are the ones that use the mechanic. My solution fixes block without making it useless. Tanks will still be able to tank in PVE like they always do with no issues. it really don't effect PVE at all.

Its in PVP where with TES system that has been around forever, folks will no longer be able to hide behind a shield and fight, as doing so will actually have a counter(A heavy attack breaking it and setting you off-balance just like it has in Skyrim, Oblivion, and even Morrowind I believe) so you will either have to bash that heavy attack, or get out of the way...both of which means you can't hide behind a sheild.

Don't get me wrong, i beat block casters all the time, i only block when i need to and am very smart about doing so. I have no problem spamming ranged AOE at block casters(which ignores their block anyways) with the new patch making AOE blockable, its just going to work even better for me, as every tick will just drain your stamina, leaving you ripe for well placed stun, and game over for them anyways.

My point is, it shouldn't have to come down to that, and with my system up above it doesn't. Block is still as useful as it always ways, Block still blocks spells like it always has, the difference is a Heavy Attack will break that block, so you either bash/interrupt the heavy attack, or move out of the way. It makes the combat system in this game better and have much more depth, as it will require more between the ears and the keyboard to be successful instead of just taping down your right mouse button which is what the current system is.

As always, Block casting biggest supporters are those who use the mechanic the most...some builds have a harder time getting around it then others, but next patch AOE is just going to suck your stamina dry in a hurry and leave you defenseless....at least with a real system like above it forces you to use your head and adapt to changing combat situations, while at the same time giving much more weapon choice diversity.

onlinegamer1

woodsro wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Here is an even better idea:

L2P.

This is not a L2P issue. The only ones who support block casting are the ones that use the mechanic.

Which should be everyone.

This thread is identical to "Everyone should walk around Cyrodiil, because horses make you go fast and I don't use horses." Yes, its just as stupid as that.

suycyco

So everyone should use a shield/1h?

So why put other weapons then, oh and everybody should use the same build to no?

And go further we'll erase three classes and let only one why put four if one is enough.

Merrak

woodsro wrote: »

Heavy Attack will break Block and off-balance the Blocker.

There is an issue to this with PvE as it will then mess with boss mechanics on heavy attacks that are meant to be blocked. If you are put off-balance and had to break free every single time something like that happened, you would end up out of Stam. I think the best solution is a to just use an Interrupt to break a blocker, maybe some form of charged interrupt would be required so it's not immediate and doesn't make tanks in PvP useless?

Trayyacakes

If you remove block casting with the nerf to reflective scales there will be no more melee in Cyrodiil. There are counters to block casting, especially flappers and sappers, but no one wants to listen,learn and adapt. Block casting needs to stay or attacks need to do a whole lot less damage in Cyrodiil.

There has to be tanky melee builds who push the pile. other wise it becomes 1700's style war. Line up and shoot. What you are asking for is indirectly asking for an all ranged Cyrodiil. There are ways to counter these builds.

Sapper Nightblade= put one man on him to lock him down with roots, and nuke him from range, don't fight him in his veil. heal debuff

Flappy flapper= fear. heal debuff gg

Streaker= every charge attack in the game, or bow user dodge roll. A streaker shouldn't be a problem after 1.6 anyway because blobbing should be gone.

Blazing shield spam= fear. heal debuff.

volcanic rune can be effective at times as well.

with the RS nerf and the Light armor nerf coming just wait for 1.6 to see what the new meta is, but with the state of the game now removing block casting would end melee in large scale pvp.

suycyco

As i already ask on other similar thread, wich heal debuff apply on a blocking player? (maybe meatbag)
The two I use don't (lethal arrow and soul harvest) unless I've missed something.

Like nobody contested on the other thread i ask again here maybe I'll have more chance.

Edit: light armor will probably nerfed but heavy will be up so melee tanker should stay viable

RinaldoGandolphi

Merrak wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

Heavy Attack will break Block and off-balance the Blocker.

There is an issue to this with PvE as it will then mess with boss mechanics on heavy attacks that are meant to be blocked. If you are put off-balance and had to break free every single time something like that happened, you would end up out of Stam. I think the best solution is a to just use an Interrupt to break a blocker, maybe some form of charged interrupt would be required so it's not immediate and doesn't make tanks in PvP useless?

Off-balance status doesn't require Break Free, all off-balance status does is means a Heavy Attack will knock you down. nothing more.Its not a stun. Being hit with Wall of Elements with a Lighting Staff will set Concussed targets Off Balance. It just puts a swirl over your head and for a few seconds if you get Heavy Attacked you get knocked down. PVE mobs are stunned with Off-Balance, but players are not. The DK Flame Lask Morph will set you Off-Balance, yet it doesn't stun you, just means a Heavy Attack against you while your off-balance = a knock down.

Also, why would you stand and block a boss heavy attack? I have a few realty really really good tanks in my guild and none of them stand their and block boss heavy attacks, they get out of the way when the Boss starts its "starry/swirl motion" they just don't stand their and take it...the healers really appreciate that by the way. Not being snarky, just saying...folks really shouldn't be standing blocking Heavy Attacks anyways.

Lorkhan

so everybody hold block + immovable up

Merrak

woodsro wrote: »

Also, why would you stand and block a boss heavy attack? I have a few realty really really good tanks in my guild and none of them stand their and block boss heavy attacks, they get out of the way when the Boss starts its "starry/swirl motion" they just don't stand their and take it...the healers really appreciate that by the way. Not being snarky, just saying...folks really shouldn't be standing blocking Heavy Attacks anyways.

Actually, that does come off quite snarky, so allow me to clarify what you are mistaken about. There is a big difference between heavy attack and a frontal cone AoE Cleave. Heavy attacks, unless interrupted (if possible with said boss), blocked or actually sprinting out of the bosses range, will always hit you because bosses will turn, walk, and face you for these. Think the Poison Sword attack by the Serpent's Image, or the Mantikora's heavy swipe. These are unavoidable Heavy Attacks that must be blocked, and anyone who says differently doesn't play this game. You are saying these "really really really good tanks" can avoid this?

A Cleave is a giant red area that requires you to move for fear of your own life. If you don't move out, you are wrong, end of discussion.

Please make sure to have your terminology correct before assuming I'm suggesting everyone stands there and catch a Cleave to the face.

RinaldoGandolphi

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Here is an even better idea:

L2P.

This is not a L2P issue. The only ones who support block casting are the ones that use the mechanic.

Which should be everyone.

This thread is identical to "Everyone should walk around Cyrodiil, because horses make you go fast and I don't use horses." Yes, its just as stupid as that.

Again, i guess everyone should walk around Cyrodiil with Sword and Shield according to you because you are advocating a pigeonholed playstyle that makes anything other then Sword and Shield a disadvantage to use.

See this is the problem with many in this community(not all, but many). NO ONE wants to make any compromises to make a better game. Thats what it boils down to...no one wants to give up anything in the spirit of making a better game not only for themselves, but everyone else as well. As much as i think Bolt Escape was over-nerfed, if it makes the game better, then leave it as it is. I am willing to compromise. Block Casters and their supporters are not.

This lack of compromise is why this game is losing players. Go ahead latch on to your block cast mechanic...when you have no one left to fight, you have no one to blame but yourselves for a Cyrodiil that will end up a barren wasteland.

I can honestly say i have never seen a community made up of a minority of rigid players able to convince a company like Zenimax to take their word as gold. Its poor form all around.

I have received emails in the past from casuals (the ones who pay the bills for this game) thanking me for giving them a Voice. No one wants to listen to them, its almost to point that im stuck being "The Voice of the Voiceless" because it seems their concerns and such are never heard.

I'll be point blank and blunt:

"What we forum posters want;doesn't matter because we are the minority and wear not footing the bill to keep this game and its servers up"

Want to know why? because at the end of the day, if the casuals quit playing, there won't be a game...if that 70% stops subbing the game is dead....This minority community's lack of compromising along with Zenimax listening to this minority instead of the majority player base that pays the bills and keeps the servers up will lead to killing this game. There won't be a game to play because they won't have the sub base to keep the servers running.

I have gotten vast experience over the years in my IT field, much of it related to management, HR, I even have been a Site Supervisor for an International Help and Relief program, i never thought i would get this kind of experience. The point is...having this experience has taught me a lot and im telling you....This lack of compromise WILL KILL THIS GAME...its only a matter of time.

Customers are Fed up, people have left in droves, and more will leave in droves if certain issues are not addressed and block casting is one of those issues.

Not every player is a "leet pvper" and they shouldn't have to be. However, having a mechanic in the game that makes it NOT FUN for the majority of your player base is a mechanic that should be removed, changed, or fixed. Its this lack of flexibility that has this game shooting itself in the foot.

Zenimax really needs to bring someone in from "outside the game community" and let this person use technology at his disposal to infer what the biggest issues are with this majority playerbase in this game and to fix them.

For example, I could design a Bot that scours the web for every single discussion this game has ever had since beta, compile that data into a central database, sort it by relevence, weight certain terms based on importance, and I could have a very good insight into what needs fixed in this game in about a month....where it took them 9 months just to realize that AOE needs to be blocked.

however, please continue to stand on this refusal to compromise and you will watch this game die a slow death as it hemmorages the majority of people who pay most of the games sub fees, hence pays for the game, and there will be no game to play without them.

Zenimax...the clock is ticking...you really need to stop listening to these guilds and these 10% minorities and start sending out feelers and start getting information from the majority of your player base and fixing issues that way...afterall you like to make money right? then stop alienating your casual player base that foots most of the bill..its irrational and illogical from every perspective.

Beerbill

I have to admit I was a bit disappointed the first time I tried to heavy attack a blocking to break it like the others TES games and got stunned and later found there was no block breaker.

Like @woodsro‌ said, they should go back to the classic way, also this should work well in PvE as well, since you could bash the boss heavy attack in order to prevent it, making bash more useful and taking more active.

Emencie

woodsro wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Here is an even better idea:

L2P.

This is not a L2P issue. The only ones who support block casting are the ones that use the mechanic.

Which should be everyone.

This thread is identical to "Everyone should walk around Cyrodiil, because horses make you go fast and I don't use horses." Yes, its just as stupid as that.

Again, i guess everyone should walk around Cyrodiil with Sword and Shield according to you because you are advocating a pigeonholed playstyle that makes anything other then Sword and Shield a disadvantage to use.

• You can block without a shield.
• You should be using block no matter what weapon you have.
• You should be block casting when under attack
• You should be animation canceling with block
• Learning when to break free, block, and roll are among the most important things in this game.
• Blocking is the only thing that makes the time to kill in PvP bearable.
• Removing the effectiveness of blocking would only serve to make gank and swarm builds that much stronger.
• This is completely a L2P issue.

RinaldoGandolphi

Merrak wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

Also, why would you stand and block a boss heavy attack? I have a few realty really really good tanks in my guild and none of them stand their and block boss heavy attacks, they get out of the way when the Boss starts its "starry/swirl motion" they just don't stand their and take it...the healers really appreciate that by the way. Not being snarky, just saying...folks really shouldn't be standing blocking Heavy Attacks anyways.

Actually, that does come off quite snarky, so allow me to clarify what you are mistaken about. There is a big difference between heavy attack and a frontal cone AoE Cleave. Heavy attacks, unless interrupted (if possible with said boss), blocked or actually sprinting out of the bosses range, will always hit you because bosses will turn, walk, and face you for these. Think the Poison Sword attack by the Serpent's Image, or the Mantikora's heavy swipe. These are unavoidable Heavy Attacks that must be blocked, and anyone who says differently doesn't play this game. You are saying these "really really really good tanks" can avoid this?

A Cleave is a giant red area that requires you to move for fear of your own life. If you don't move out, you are wrong, end of discussion.

Please make sure to have your terminology correct before assuming I'm suggesting everyone stands there and catch a Cleave to the face.

My apologies first and foremost.

Adjustments could be made to those instances to make it work.

Its just the block mechanic as it is now needs changed, and the pve needs adjusted to make it work. We all will have to make compromises for this, but it will make for a better game for everyone involved.

Again my apologies for coming off as snarky.

Sallington

Block should drain stamina while you hold up your shield. No stamina = can't raise your shield.

RinaldoGandolphi

Emencie wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Here is an even better idea:

L2P.

This is not a L2P issue. The only ones who support block casting are the ones that use the mechanic.

Which should be everyone.

This thread is identical to "Everyone should walk around Cyrodiil, because horses make you go fast and I don't use horses." Yes, its just as stupid as that.

Again, i guess everyone should walk around Cyrodiil with Sword and Shield according to you because you are advocating a pigeonholed playstyle that makes anything other then Sword and Shield a disadvantage to use.

• You can block without a shield.
• You should be using block no matter what weapon you have.
• You should be block casting when under attack
• You should be animation canceling with block
• Learning when to break free, block, and roll are among the most important things in this game.
• Blocking is the only thing that makes the time to kill in PvP bearable.
• Removing the effectiveness of blocking would only serve to make gank and swarm builds that much stronger.
• This is completely a L2P issue.

Here we go again...L2P.... exactly what i was talking about in my Wall of Text earlier. This lack of anyone willing to compromise will be the death of this game.

Yes you can block without a shield, but you don't mitigate anywhere near the same amount of damage. Block should be meaningful and have thought behind it, not taping down your right-mouse button which is what block casting pretty much is...it takes no thought whatsoever to hold down your right mouse button and use skills at the same time.

Now we even get into another mechanic issue that needs changed which is Animation Canceling....ZOS has in essence again pigeonholed people into either learning how to animation cancel, or their not effective, when in reality animation canceling shouldn't even be part of the game to begin with. It really makes no sense at all being able to intermix an attack with a skill if its timed correctly....

Defending this position is intractable both logically and practically...yet most of the world is irrational and illogical so they will defend this position even if it isn't good for them. Want an example? Take the Income Tax Amendment. The people voted in a law that taxes their income...what kind of logical and rational person would vote in a tax on their income themselves, in essence voting to hand over a percentage of their money to the govt? It's irrational and illogical to do such a thing and to give up such a percentage of their income, yet they done it because of irrational behavior. Would all the money you hand over in Income Taxes not improve your quality of life and position? would it not ease part of your financial burden? Of course it would! then why would you vote to hand it the government then? I'll tell you why...not thinking clearly...being impulsive and irrational.

Listen its in human nature to be irrational and impulsive, we all make errors, even in judgement. However as JFK once said:

"An error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it"

Block Casting and Animation Canceling are two errors in this game. They cheapen the game, and they cheapen the experience. these two mechanics are no different then stacking 100% Chameleon in Oblivion so you can be invisible 100% of the time. Just because everyone can do it doesn't make it less cheesy. It goes against the spirit of the game, it goes against the spirit of what this game was supposed to be, it goes against the spirit of The Elder Scrolls. The PVE parts need to be adjusted and both of these things removed from the game...it will make a better game....it will define this game as a pinnacle of the 21st century...

.in games, just like in life, it should be a constant strive to achieve better, to become better, to better your position. This is what this game must strive for if it is to survive. Getting rid of these two mechanics is a big step in the right direction to righting the downfalls in this game that has led to many leaving. If these things are left as is, you will see a signifanct drop in game population, because i can tell you right now, the majority of casual players that make up the ones who foot most of the subs for this game have just about had it! They are on the brink of leaving, if they leave, I hope you have fun on servers that will be ghost towns.

Trayyacakes

suycyco wrote: »

As i already ask on other similar thread, wich heal debuff apply on a blocking player? (maybe meatbag)
The two I use don't (lethal arrow and soul harvest) unless I've missed something.

Like nobody contested on the other thread i ask again here maybe I'll have more chance.

Edit: light armor will probably nerfed but heavy will be up so melee tanker should stay viable

Yes Meatbag definitely works through block. Honestly not sure about lethal arrow. I don't know about the sword and board heal debuff or dark flare either. I also have poison (disease, ty for pointing out my mistake suycyco) damage for my enchants on all the weapons I use in pvp. Fear will also go through block and there is a short amount of time after the fear before that start blocking again, were you can slip in an unblocked attack. The Debuffs will for sure go through then would take good timing and coordination.

And yes Heavy will be viable for melee tanky characters to push the line and we won't have the issues of them being really tanky and hitting like trucks like we do now, but if you take away block casting then they will be cc'd and dead in seconds if they are focused. If you don't want this game to be all ranged then block casting has to stay for now. A good amount would have to change in order for it to be removed. TTK would drop hard without it.

Just for the record I am mainly talking about organized group play. The blob meta will go away in 1.6. Wait and see how the game ends up being after the big update first. If someones group get's wrecked by one block caster then it is a L2P issue. I feel for that group, but I don't think block casting needs to go just because some people who don't understand how to counter certain builds get destroyed. I understand that if block casting wasn't a thing that would happen less (it would still happen, but in the case of organized PvP it needs to stay or damage needs to be dropped across the board in Cyrodiil if you don't want only ranged pvp.

RinaldoGandolphi

Sallington wrote: »

Block should drain stamina while you hold up your shield. No stamina = can't raise your shield.

This is another good solution. I would be fine with this as well, it would make for a better game.

suycyco

Thanks for the answerr

Trayyacakes wrote: »

suycyco wrote: »

As i already ask on other similar thread, wich heal debuff apply on a blocking player? (maybe meatbag)
The two I use don't (lethal arrow and soul harvest) unless I've missed something.

Like nobody contested on the other thread i ask again here maybe I'll have more chance.

Edit: light armor will probably nerfed but heavy will be up so melee tanker should stay viable

Yes Meatbag definitely works through block. Honestly not sure about lethal arrow. I don't know about the sword and board heal debuff or dark flare either. I also have poison damage for my enchants on all the weapons I use in pvp. Fear will also go through block and there is a short amount of time after the fear before that start blocking again, were you can slip in an unblocked attack. The Debuffs will for sure go through then would take good timing and coordination.

And yes Heavy will be viable for melee tanky characters to push the line and we won't have the issues of them being really tanky and hitting like trucks like we do now, but if you take away block casting then they will be cc'd and dead in seconds if they are focused. If you don't want this game to be all ranged then block casting has to stay for now. A good amount would have to change in order for it to be removed. TTK would drop hard without it.

Just for the record I am mainly talking about organized group play. The blob meta will go away in 1.6. Wait and see how the game ends up being after the big update first. If someones group get's wrecked by one block caster then it is a L2P issue. I feel for that group, but I don't think block casting needs to go just because some people who don't understand how to counter certain builds get destroyed. I understand that if block casting wasn't a thing that would happen less (it would still happen, but in the case of organized PvP it needs to stay or damage needs to be dropped across the board in Cyrodiil if you don't want only ranged pvp.

Thanks for the answer.
So in definitive it seems that only meatbags debuff apply on a blocking player, what I thought before.

You mean disease on your weapon? Because poison doesn't apply the healing debuff.

For the fear actually it apply through the block but he doesn't breack it, the opponent is still blocking while feared.

The problem actually it's even if you say that there is solution to block casting if we take facts we have very few unless you are yourself a block caster...

In my point of view it's not that we need to nerf block casting but to give more solution to player to go through it . To reward skill to resume.

And not to forget the new AVA spell for tankers in the 1.6 the interupt one wich should be very powerfull if used well.

Trayyacakes

woodsro wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Here is an even better idea:

L2P.

This is not a L2P issue. The only ones who support block casting are the ones that use the mechanic.

Which should be everyone.

This thread is identical to "Everyone should walk around Cyrodiil, because horses make you go fast and I don't use horses." Yes, its just as stupid as that.

Again, i guess everyone should walk around Cyrodiil with Sword and Shield according to you because you are advocating a pigeonholed playstyle that makes anything other then Sword and Shield a disadvantage to use.

• You can block without a shield.
• You should be using block no matter what weapon you have.
• You should be block casting when under attack
• You should be animation canceling with block
• Learning when to break free, block, and roll are among the most important things in this game.
• Blocking is the only thing that makes the time to kill in PvP bearable.
• Removing the effectiveness of blocking would only serve to make gank and swarm builds that much stronger.
• This is completely a L2P issue.

Here we go again...L2P.... exactly what i was talking about in my Wall of Text earlier. This lack of anyone willing to compromise will be the death of this game.

Yes you can block without a shield, but you don't mitigate anywhere near the same amount of damage. Block should be meaningful and have thought behind it, not taping down your right-mouse button which is what block casting pretty much is...it takes no thought whatsoever to hold down your right mouse button and use skills at the same time.

Now we even get into another mechanic issue that needs changed which is Animation Canceling....ZOS has in essence again pigeonholed people into either learning how to animation cancel, or their not effective, when in reality animation canceling shouldn't even be part of the game to begin with. It really makes no sense at all being able to intermix an attack with a skill if its timed correctly....

Defending this position is intractable both logically and practically...yet most of the world is irrational and illogical so they will defend this position even if it isn't good for them. Want an example? Take the Income Tax Amendment. The people voted in a law that taxes their income...what kind of logical and rational person would vote in a tax on their income themselves, in essence voting to hand over a percentage of their money to the govt? It's irrational and illogical to do such a thing and to give up such a percentage of their income, yet they done it because of irrational behavior. Would all the money you hand over in Income Taxes not improve your quality of life and position? would it not ease part of your financial burden? Of course it would! then why would you vote to hand it the government then? I'll tell you why...not thinking clearly...being impulsive and irrational.

Listen its in human nature to be irrational and impulsive, we all make errors, even in judgement. However as JFK once said:

"An error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it"

Block Casting and Animation Canceling are two errors in this game. They cheapen the game, and they cheapen the experience. these two mechanics are no different then stacking 100% Chameleon in Oblivion so you can be invisible 100% of the time. Just because everyone can do it doesn't make it less cheesy. It goes against the spirit of the game, it goes against the spirit of what this game was supposed to be, it goes against the spirit of The Elder Scrolls. The PVE parts need to be adjusted and both of these things removed from the game...it will make a better game....it will define this game as a pinnacle of the 21st century...

.in games, just like in life, it should be a constant strive to achieve better, to become better, to better your position. This is what this game must strive for if it is to survive. Getting rid of these two mechanics is a big step in the right direction to righting the downfalls in this game that has led to many leaving. If these things are left as is, you will see a signifanct drop in game population, because i can tell you right now, the majority of casual players that make up the ones who foot most of the subs for this game have just about had it! They are on the brink of leaving, if they leave, I hope you have fun on servers that will be ghost towns.

You say people for block casting aren't willing to compromise, but I don't think that is the case. The person you quoted is exactly right. Blocking is the only thing that keeps TTK at a good level. I have never read a post complaining about block casting where the poster asked for block casting to be removed and for damage to be reduced in Cyrodiil. Most posts just say block casting has to go because reasons.

The problem is not that simple. It is a combination of things, and most of those things are getting changed in 1.6. Some of the "problems" that are getting fixed I don't want fixed, looking at ult generation, but I will wait to see how they change the game first before demanding changes.

So lets be civil and look at all the problems that make block casting.

1. Light Armor. It gives great spell resistance which combined with block gives great physical damage resistance as well. Magicka cost reduction and regeneration to keep up sustained damage. Spell penetration to help out damage. hopefully 1.6 will make LA wearers squishy

2. Easily reachable soft caps. Soft caps the way they are now allow players to soft cap magicka, have around 1600 stamina, and a fair amount of health. Players can also soft cap magicka and stamina regen. This is part of the reason why they can hold block, and spam abilities for days. Combine this with tripots, and it gets crazy. This is compounded by the light armor passives. All that magicka, and all that spell penetration hurts. 1.6 helps this with the removal of soft caps. Hopefully after 1.6 players will have to choose to be either tanky or damage dealers

3. TTK. Without blocking you die very very quickly. Especially if you are the focus target. Some classes don't have an escape like bolt escape or cloak(when it works) and just have to eat or heal through the damage. Without block casting they just die. If block casting goes then damage across the board needs to drop considerably inside of Cyrodiil.

I have faith that 1.6 will for the most part kill off the builds that have high survivability, high sustained, high damage build. I think that 1.6 will make the player choose either or more often than not. There will still be balance issues for sure, but hopefully it won't be as bad.

Lets wait and see where we are after 1.6 and then talk about block casting again after that, but again if it goes expect your damage in Cyrodiil to go down as well.

As for your views on animation canceling, animation canceling kind of has to stay if they want to keep game mechanics like dodging and blocking. Only way to really change that would be to put small cast times on every ability which I don't think would be very fun.

suycyco wrote: »

Thanks for the answerr

Trayyacakes wrote: »

suycyco wrote: »

As i already ask on other similar thread, wich heal debuff apply on a blocking player? (maybe meatbag)
The two I use don't (lethal arrow and soul harvest) unless I've missed something.

Like nobody contested on the other thread i ask again here maybe I'll have more chance.

Edit: light armor will probably nerfed but heavy will be up so melee tanker should stay viable

Yes Meatbag definitely works through block. Honestly not sure about lethal arrow. I don't know about the sword and board heal debuff or dark flare either. I also have poison damage for my enchants on all the weapons I use in pvp. Fear will also go through block and there is a short amount of time after the fear before that start blocking again, were you can slip in an unblocked attack. The Debuffs will for sure go through then would take good timing and coordination.

And yes Heavy will be viable for melee tanky characters to push the line and we won't have the issues of them being really tanky and hitting like trucks like we do now, but if you take away block casting then they will be cc'd and dead in seconds if they are focused. If you don't want this game to be all ranged then block casting has to stay for now. A good amount would have to change in order for it to be removed. TTK would drop hard without it.

Just for the record I am mainly talking about organized group play. The blob meta will go away in 1.6. Wait and see how the game ends up being after the big update first. If someones group get's wrecked by one block caster then it is a L2P issue. I feel for that group, but I don't think block casting needs to go just because some people who don't understand how to counter certain builds get destroyed. I understand that if block casting wasn't a thing that would happen less (it would still happen, but in the case of organized PvP it needs to stay or damage needs to be dropped across the board in Cyrodiil if you don't want only ranged pvp.

Thanks for the answer.
So in definitive it seems that only meatbags debuff apply on a blocking player, what I thought before.

You mean disease on your weapon? Because poison doesn't apply the healing debuff.

For the fear actually it apply through the block but he doesn't breack it, the opponent is still blocking while feared.

The problem actually it's even if you say that there is solution to block casting if we take facts we have very few unless you are yourself a block caster...

In my point of view it's not that we need to nerf block casting but to give more solution to player to go through it . To reward skill to resume.

And not to forget the new AVA spell for tankers in the 1.6 the interupt one wich should be very powerfull if used well.

I do think the heal debuffs should go through block if they don't already, and yes I also meant disease on weapons. Thank you for pointing that out. It is now fixed.

I am all for giving more ways to counter block casting, I think a passive in the 2h weapon line should allow for a fully charged heavy to block break wouldn't be a bad idea if heavy attacks can be interrupted via bash. I'm sure people way smarter than me can thing of other cool counter abilities to blocking, but I am against just taking it out of the game if damage levels stay the same.

This games pvp is all about learning how to counter.

onlinegamer1

Emencie wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Here is an even better idea:

L2P.

This is not a L2P issue. The only ones who support block casting are the ones that use the mechanic.

Which should be everyone.

This thread is identical to "Everyone should walk around Cyrodiil, because horses make you go fast and I don't use horses." Yes, its just as stupid as that.

Again, i guess everyone should walk around Cyrodiil with Sword and Shield according to you because you are advocating a pigeonholed playstyle that makes anything other then Sword and Shield a disadvantage to use.

• You can block without a shield.
• You should be using block no matter what weapon you have.
• You should be block casting when under attack
• You should be animation canceling with block
• Learning when to break free, block, and roll are among the most important things in this game.
• Blocking is the only thing that makes the time to kill in PvP bearable.
• Removing the effectiveness of blocking would only serve to make gank and swarm builds that much stronger.
• This is completely a L2P issue.

QFT. This is 100% a L2P issue.

RinaldoGandolphi

I am being civil, and i am glad you are.

For the record, I would be all for reducing damage in Cyrodiil in return for Block Casting being a thing of the past. I understand right now Blocking is the only thing that keeps TTK reasonable, and of course I would understand adjustments would have to be made in other areas in order to do that such as lowering damage, and I think that would be Ok. It may actually lead to more fun fights to be honest.

I agree that Light Armor is too good right now for tanking and definitely needs to be adjusted so light armor users are more squishy.

I hope your right about the softcap removal helping with some of these issues, but it should also be noted it may lead to very uber tank builds due to them and the fact Heavy Armor is being buffed may compound the issue.

I would hope that their has to be a better solution then Animation Canceling...it feels clunky, it feels like it doesn't belong...it really shouldn't be ttheir...they should figure out what adjustments need to be made to keep things viable and remove it.

At the end of the day though, making AOE blockable is actually a nerf to block...just many don't realize it yet...before i was using AOE to ignore their block...Now i can use it in conjunction with roots to run them out of stamina 3 times as fast leaving them helpless....they will find this out in short order once 1.6 comes out that standing around holding the right-mouse button down may not be the best idea....as AOE is a viable counter, and every damage tick will count as a blocked attack, and stacked with multiple AOE will = no stamina very very fast...and they will be helpless....i actually can't wait to see it to be honest, I already have my popcorn ready

Trayyacakes

You are quite right. Blocking AOE will absolutely run many people out of stamina quickly.