Please Pass the Butter!!!
Heishi
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Some people abhor Big Bang Theory (TV show), some like it, and some have never heard of it.
Either way, I am constantly reminded of this skit and wanted to share. For the purposes of metaphor, Sheldon (the guy) would be ZOS, Amy (the girl) would be the players, the butter is important information regarding dates/times/updates. We'll say the PS4 and XB1 represent ESO Live.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1jzdSzGHnA
In seriousness, I believe people's irritation stems from the fact that ZOS will say we're looking to do ________ around __________ time. _________ time comes and goes and there is no information regarding any sort of change.
I think people wouldn't be necessarily happy, but would be much more understanding if communications were made early. The best way I've seen to go about this is to estimate longer than you expect to need, then clarify if you get it early. Or just clarify at all really.
Say ZOS says "We're looking to launch 1.6 to PTS shortly after the first of the year". Fantastic. Dec 22 they should have had a good idea that heading into the holiday vacations this probably was or wasn't going to happen. They should have just made a comment that there was still some things they were hammering out and that it looked like it would be closer to the middle or end of January.
I get they were on holiday vacation, but I also know that a number of the mods were still on here posting and responding to things a little. Enough that someone could have made a 30sec post.
Really they SHOULD have said the update should be ready to go to PTS around the first of Feb. If it was ready early they could launch it early.
As some others have mentioned, a test server is a test server. If you expect a polished final product patch on a test server, it's like expecting a Beta test to be complete with no bugs. Unless there's a bug so bad it just makes players PCs explode, there's really no reason to hold it back because _____ is broken.
Now, ZOS' communications have got MUCH better than at launch. However it's still just simple, but vital things. that they don't communicate.
Example:
Sorry guys, we found some problems that need to be worked out, we're gonna have to push the PTS launch of 1.6 back a few weeks.
Done, 15sec typing slow.
I know they mods can only hand out information as it is passed to them, they are mostly just the face of ZOS. It's kind of a "don't shoot the messenger" situation.. but people do. People always have. ZOS has to know by denying information to be passed along, they're making the very nice mods the targets for a lot of anger and frustrations.
So ZOS, please quit foundering over details that don't matter,
and PLEASE PASS THE BUTTER!
Either way, I am constantly reminded of this skit and wanted to share. For the purposes of metaphor, Sheldon (the guy) would be ZOS, Amy (the girl) would be the players, the butter is important information regarding dates/times/updates. We'll say the PS4 and XB1 represent ESO Live.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1jzdSzGHnAIn seriousness, I believe people's irritation stems from the fact that ZOS will say we're looking to do ________ around __________ time. _________ time comes and goes and there is no information regarding any sort of change.
I think people wouldn't be necessarily happy, but would be much more understanding if communications were made early. The best way I've seen to go about this is to estimate longer than you expect to need, then clarify if you get it early. Or just clarify at all really.
Say ZOS says "We're looking to launch 1.6 to PTS shortly after the first of the year". Fantastic. Dec 22 they should have had a good idea that heading into the holiday vacations this probably was or wasn't going to happen. They should have just made a comment that there was still some things they were hammering out and that it looked like it would be closer to the middle or end of January.
I get they were on holiday vacation, but I also know that a number of the mods were still on here posting and responding to things a little. Enough that someone could have made a 30sec post.
Really they SHOULD have said the update should be ready to go to PTS around the first of Feb. If it was ready early they could launch it early.
As some others have mentioned, a test server is a test server. If you expect a polished final product patch on a test server, it's like expecting a Beta test to be complete with no bugs. Unless there's a bug so bad it just makes players PCs explode, there's really no reason to hold it back because _____ is broken.
Now, ZOS' communications have got MUCH better than at launch. However it's still just simple, but vital things. that they don't communicate.
Example:
Sorry guys, we found some problems that need to be worked out, we're gonna have to push the PTS launch of 1.6 back a few weeks.
Done, 15sec typing slow.
I know they mods can only hand out information as it is passed to them, they are mostly just the face of ZOS. It's kind of a "don't shoot the messenger" situation.. but people do. People always have. ZOS has to know by denying information to be passed along, they're making the very nice mods the targets for a lot of anger and frustrations.
So ZOS, please quit foundering over details that don't matter,
and PLEASE PASS THE BUTTER!
And so did many brave men, women, and beast fall to the end of Beta, never to be heard from again. All that is left, is whispers of the adventures they had.
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Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Say ZOS says "We're looking to launch 1.6 to PTS shortly after the first of the year". Fantastic. Dec 22 they should have had a good idea that heading into the holiday vacations this probably was or wasn't going to happen.
This is the beginning of the second day of the first week of the year and your already calling this delayed?
Edited by Nestor on January 6, 2015 4:06PMEnjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"5 -
SLy_Kyti✭✭✭✭Love that skit metaphor. Most awesome.
Perhaps they don't know what they don't know...if so, they can't communicate what isn't known. Therefore they tell us what is known but it is in fact wrong, because they don't really know what is wrong. They have probably been baffling with bs so long that its become real to ZOS.
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Knootewoot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I bet they are working so hard and suprise us with some uber content patch, you guys will feel ashamed after 1.6 goes live and feel so guilty you buy multiple account and make a statue of ZOS logo from a turd which you will worship.٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
"I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."6 -
Heishi✭✭✭✭✭Say ZOS says "We're looking to launch 1.6 to PTS shortly after the first of the year". Fantastic. Dec 22 they should have had a good idea that heading into the holiday vacations this probably was or wasn't going to happen.
This is the beginning of the second day of the first week of the year and you're already calling this delayed?
Well, regarding the specific spot you quoted, that has nothing to do with me calling it delayed.
I was simply stating if it was or wasn't going to be delayed. they should have had that information long before their approximate launch time.
As far as the date you listed, that's wrong anyway you slice it. It's the second day of the second week of the year with regards that the first week only had one work day. two business days, 3 calendar days or 4 if you include sunday at the end of the week instead of the beginning.
If you go the other way, it's the 6th day of the year, so it's the 6th day of the first week.
In no way is it the second day of the first week.
Either way, delayed or not delayed, that had nothing to do with the topic which was that ZOS still needs to communicate better with us. I wasn't even pushing the fact that communication is a two way thing and they need to listen to us as much as we need to listen to them. That's a whole separate issue further down the line.Edited by Heishi on January 6, 2015 4:33PMAnd so did many brave men, women, and beast fall to the end of Beta, never to be heard from again. All that is left, is whispers of the adventures they had.1 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I like the Big Bang Theory, and I like ESO, but I'm not a huge fan of butter (except on toast and crumpets).
Oh, and how come Sheldon with a huge IQ named his simcity Sheldonville, was Sheldonia already taken?????????
But they have shown a picture of ESO being played with a PS4 controller, so console releases should be soon.Edited by AlexDougherty on January 6, 2015 4:36PMPeople believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule1 -
Say ZOS says "We're looking to launch 1.6 to PTS shortly after the first of the year". Fantastic. Dec 22 they should have had a good idea that heading into the holiday vacations this probably was or wasn't going to happen.
This is the beginning of the second day of the first week of the year and your already calling this delayed?
What I call delayed is them saying we'll get content releases akin to Skyrim's DLC every month. However even though I pay a monthly subscription fee for the promise ZOS gave me the last major content update was 2 months ago. And even the last bug fix we got was a month ago. If ZOS expects to keep up this stupid sub fee then they need to not make a bunch of promises they can't keep, fix the game i'm paying for, and improve the awful Dev to player communication tenfold.2 -
Ourorboros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Information sharing is a tricky business. When early announcements are made, they set peoples expectations. When the announced project/change/whatever runs into unexpected issues that force a change from what was announced, it becomes problematic. Some people will accept the new announcement and move on. Other people will get upset because they want what was originally announced. As a result, most companies tend to hold announcements until all changes have been locked in.
ZOS has already been burned by this model, on the XP gain for CP transition. They announced one thing, then found it wouldn't work that way. Result was an uproar. Any wonder they are being more careful now?PC/NA/DCBreton Sorcerer Maester.White - BB meets GoT >Master Crafter< { 9 Traits completed 4/23/15 }
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ESO: the game you hate to love and love to hate....( >_<) May RNG be with you (*,_,*)3 -
Heishi✭✭✭✭✭connor_worlineub17_ESO wrote: »Say ZOS says "We're looking to launch 1.6 to PTS shortly after the first of the year". Fantastic. Dec 22 they should have had a good idea that heading into the holiday vacations this probably was or wasn't going to happen.
This is the beginning of the second day of the first week of the year and your already calling this delayed?
What I call delayed is them saying we'll get content releases akin to Skyrim's DLC every month. However even though I pay a monthly subscription fee for the promise ZOS gave me the last major content update was 2 months ago. And even the last bug fix we got was a month ago. If ZOS expects to keep up this stupid sub fee then they need to not make a bunch of promises they can't keep, fix the game i'm paying for, and improve the awful Dev to player communication tenfold.
Delaying content I'm fine with especially when they take two months to bundle what should have been two major content releases (Justice System and Champion System). Two major content pieces, I suspect there are a lot of bugs they have to work out
My main concern is with the communication.Love that skit metaphor. Most awesome.
Perhaps they don't know what they don't know...if so, they can't communicate what isn't known. Therefore they tell us what is known but it is in fact wrong, because they don't really know what is wrong. They have probably been baffling with bs so long that its become real to ZOS.
Oddly I managed to follow the line of thinking there and agree. What probably happens is the actual devs finish their parts, submit it to quality control who finds the major problems and send it back to the devs to fix. This goes on for a while until the list of major problems dwindles. Public relations probably checks in with devs to get an estimate on when it'll be finished. Relations hold the information until closer to time.
Mods I assume get the information very late and have to wait for PR to okay releasing the info or not. If it's anything like my company there was a solid two week vacation for the holidays with only a skeleton crew to keep things going. Which would mean info passed to mods to pass along would also be two weeks behind.And so did many brave men, women, and beast fall to the end of Beta, never to be heard from again. All that is left, is whispers of the adventures they had.0 -
Heishi✭✭✭✭✭Ourorboros wrote: »Information sharing is a tricky business. When early announcements are made, they set peoples expectations. When the announced project/change/whatever runs into unexpected issues that force a change from what was announced, it becomes problematic. Some people will accept the new announcement and move on. Other people will get upset because they want what was originally announced. As a result, most companies tend to hold announcements until all changes have been locked in.
ZOS has already been burned by this model, on the XP gain for CP transition. They announced one thing, then found it wouldn't work that way. Result was an uproar. Any wonder they are being more careful now?
Very good point.
In fairness, I think this should have been hammered out before they made the first announcement. The announcement of account wide CP and being based on XP would be significantly different than CP per char and equalizing all players. This sort of major change should have been known to the devs long before second announcement was made to allow a proper amount of time for programming and whatnot.
I can only really think of two scenarios for the sudden change.
1) The devs told someone that the tracking xp and giving cp based on it would be too complicated to do in a reasonable amount of time.
2) They started tracking the XP and realized people would be WAY further into the CP tree than they first realized and decided to equalize it so that people were not hitting 1.6 launch almost done with the released content.
They should have been aware of the uproar such a change would cause. Either way if it was communicated and the listened to the populous trying to meet them halfway, I don't think it would be nearly the issue. Maybe they do something insignificant like give gold based on XP or something (gold might be a bad example as it would ruin the economy but the point is there).And so did many brave men, women, and beast fall to the end of Beta, never to be heard from again. All that is left, is whispers of the adventures they had.0 -
Heishi✭✭✭✭✭Like this, this is a perfectly good announcement
I don't think they all need to go to this length, but it's good besides being buried deep in a thread.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »To be clear, we have every intention to publish 1.6 to the PTS this month. It's true that we don't have a concrete date to give you, otherwise we would tell you. We've run into a couple issues that need to be addressed before we make this update available. It normally takes time to fix an issue - no matter how large or small - get everything tested, verified, then coordinate scheduling a maintenance across different teams. We know you're all really excited, but please be patient as we're working very hard to get everything completed. We want to get this update into your hands as quickly as possible so you can try it out and hammer on the new features (we do read your feedback and bug reports, despite any rumors!).
Also, as mentioned in a different thread, we do have plans to perform a character copy for both megaservers for this update. This way, everyone will have a chance to test the Champion System and other features with your own characters.
Thanks guys, and don't worry. It'll be coming SOON.
And so did many brave men, women, and beast fall to the end of Beta, never to be heard from again. All that is left, is whispers of the adventures they had.2