First Grand Warlord?

Joy_Division

woodsro wrote: »

Its honestly a sham title. Heck even how emp is decided is a sham. AP should be used to buy gear and siege and that's all, it shouldn't count for a hoot otherwise.

The top players should be decided by K/d ratio with a set amount of kills required to make the leader board.

Some of the most skilled players in this game will never rank under the current system which really is a shame.

Hell just myself and 1 guildie together killed over 200 people the other night, about a 50-50 split in KB and you could count on 1 hand how many times we both died combined yet the current system doesn't reward smart skillful play, it don't even reward playing the objective and holding the map.

Most, NOT ALL, but most on the top of the leaderboards just hole up in resource towers, spam aoe and bats to rack up AP, its really a pointless system.

Look at guys like Sypher, your telling me those guys are better them him? That's just foolishness, its nonsense. Again, the current state needs to be changed, it doesn't reflect the best players accurately and they shouldn't be aesrding emp titles earned in such a manner. As much as I loathe COD at least your ranked by K/D not by how much exp or money you earn.

- First off, gratz to Crystalized. I've had the pleasure of fighting with and against him/her and it's really sad that some people can't see around their biases and acknowledge how good of a player Crystalized is.

- Kill/death ratio is, IMHO, a very misleading measurement in overall contribution and player "skill". This is my VR4 sorc with crappy gear who eventually got a 173 kill streak from when I was half the player I am today (even though I die more):



I'm sorry, but the people who stand in the back ranks picking off the injured who are just about to die anyway are not somehow more valuable or skillful than the ones in the front lines who are actually taking damage and preventing the enemy from advancing.

- Dying is not necessarily an indicator of a lack of skill. Do you have any idea what the casualty rate was for the first wave of infantrymen hitting Omaha Beach on D-Day? They died not because they lacked "skill" in soldiering, but because they were actually brave enough to be the ones facing enemy fire that allowed the whole operation to be successful. If you can't see the number of times that Crystalized jumped OFF the castle wall and tried to clear an enemy siege line or broke the stalemate at Alessia Bridge by charging into the enemy lines, then you just aren't paying attention.

- What exactly is "skillful" and "smart" play? And why are YOUR definitions the essential truth correct that renders our perspectives invalid. OK, you killed 200 people and died 5 times. I'm sorry, but that really isn't that hard of an accomplishment. 251 kills, 5 deaths, and a 136 streak from a Templar with two of the wrong morphs and suboptimal gear:



You obviously have a problem with people who "spam aoe". Please answer me this: how is "spamming aoe" NOT "smart skillful play" when surrounded by multiple enemies? On the contrary, that strikes me as exactly what "smart skillful play" is! Biased people such as yourself who refuse to use, let alone slot, aoe "spam" on your bars are the ones that get me wiped in dungeon battles like Praxin in Spindleclutch because you don't want to degrade yourself as an "aoe spammer" and insist on sniping one of the 20 enemies who are bearing down on the healer.

Yeah, look at Sypher. Sypher is *very* good at what he does (or at least what he shows on his channel): taking on (and defeating) multiple enemies as a solo player. He is a hell of a player. But Sypher's style is not what defines "skill," it is merely one example of it. Crystalized is also *very* good at what he/she does: operate a coordinated group that uses various skills from different classes so that the whole is larger than the sum of its parts. Just because it is different does not somehow make it wrong or unskillful.

RinaldoGandolphi

Joy_Division wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

Its honestly a sham title. Heck even how emp is decided is a sham. AP should be used to buy gear and siege and that's all, it shouldn't count for a hoot otherwise.

The top players should be decided by K/d ratio with a set amount of kills required to make the leader board.

Some of the most skilled players in this game will never rank under the current system which really is a shame.

Hell just myself and 1 guildie together killed over 200 people the other night, about a 50-50 split in KB and you could count on 1 hand how many times we both died combined yet the current system doesn't reward smart skillful play, it don't even reward playing the objective and holding the map.

Most, NOT ALL, but most on the top of the leaderboards just hole up in resource towers, spam aoe and bats to rack up AP, its really a pointless system.

Look at guys like Sypher, your telling me those guys are better them him? That's just foolishness, its nonsense. Again, the current state needs to be changed, it doesn't reflect the best players accurately and they shouldn't be aesrding emp titles earned in such a manner. As much as I loathe COD at least your ranked by K/D not by how much exp or money you earn.

- First off, gratz to Crystalized. I've had the pleasure of fighting with and against him/her and it's really sad that some people can't see around their biases and acknowledge how good of a player Crystalized is.

- Kill/death ratio is, IMHO, a very misleading measurement in overall contribution and player "skill". This is my VR4 sorc with crappy gear who eventually got a 173 kill streak from when I was half the player I am today (even though I die more):



I'm sorry, but the people who stand in the back ranks picking off the injured who are just about to die anyway are not somehow more valuable or skillful than the ones in the front lines who are actually taking damage and preventing the enemy from advancing.

- Dying is not necessarily an indicator of a lack of skill. Do you have any idea what the casualty rate was for the first wave of infantrymen hitting Omaha Beach on D-Day? They died not because they lacked "skill" in soldiering, but because they were actually brave enough to be the ones facing enemy fire that allowed the whole operation to be successful. If you can't see the number of times that Crystalized jumped OFF the castle wall and tried to clear an enemy siege line or broke the stalemate at Alessia Bridge by charging into the enemy lines, then you just aren't paying attention.

- What exactly is "skillful" and "smart" play? And why are YOUR definitions the essential truth correct that renders our perspectives invalid. OK, you killed 200 people and died 5 times. I'm sorry, but that really isn't that hard of an accomplishment. 251 kills, 5 deaths, and a 136 streak from a Templar with two of the wrong morphs and suboptimal gear:



You obviously have a problem with people who "spam aoe". Please answer me this: how is "spamming aoe" NOT "smart skillful play" when surrounded by multiple enemies? On the contrary, that strikes me as exactly what "smart skillful play" is! Biased people such as yourself who refuse to use, let alone slot, aoe "spam" on your bars are the ones that get me wiped in dungeon battles like Praxin in Spindleclutch because you don't want to degrade yourself as an "aoe spammer" and insist on sniping one of the 20 enemies who are bearing down on the healer.

Yeah, look at Sypher. Sypher is *very* good at what he does (or at least what he shows on his channel): taking on (and defeating) multiple enemies as a solo player. He is a hell of a player. But Sypher's style is not what defines "skill," it is merely one example of it. Crystalized is also *very* good at what he/she does: operate a coordinated group that uses various skills from different classes so that the whole is larger than the sum of its parts. Just because it is different does not somehow make it wrong or unskillful.

Easy there fella

I never said Crystalized was a bad player, on the contrary i have actually whispered him a time or two, very nice fella. I won't fault him for using the best method to win right now, its part of the game mechanics, it is what it is. He is also a good player when not doing those things as well. So please take it easy.I never said he was a bad player.

Furthermore, i used K/D as 1 of possible factors. The AP system of ranking is currently broken. I don't think its the best way of ranking, i think their should be other factors besides just AP.

I am not against AOE, i use Lighting Flood in Cyrodiil all the time. I use AOE in dungeons all the time to, i have no problem with AOE's at all. Assuming i hate AOE is the wrong assumption, and calling me biased against AOE is simply untrue, you really need to point that in the direction of someone who does hate AOE which isn't hard to find in this thread..

Folks can say what they want about Ezareth, but i molded my style after his...he didn't die much, but he made sure other people did. He was right in the thick of it too, he would make you chase him and fight him on his terms. I play just like him with my own flavor...I kill a lot of people, but i force them to chase me and fight on my terms, or we don't fight. I die to just like everyone else does, I just try to use my head and avoid death if i can. How does sticking around a keep you know is taken as their is 60 EP to your 8-10 defenders, why should i stick around? what good could possibly come out of me dying to them? I can't think of 1 positive.


As for death? General Patton had a famous saying about soldiers and death(have to remove curse words and edit it to be within rules here):

"No man ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other man die for his country.

So General Patton, one of the greatest Generals in America History is telling you there is nothing positive in dying in battle except that your dead.

I don't care about the AOE spam, those that want to use it more power too them. I use it in some situations when the need arises. Most of my fighting happens outside of keeps because most of the time im by myself, every now and then a few of my guildies will hop in, but usually its just me because the guild im an officer in is primarily a PVE guild, they don't really mess with PVP, im pretty much the only one who does..

I would rather scout enemy territory and find small scale engagements there then bother with keeps right now. Its just lag, lag that is no ones fault mind you its just how the game engine is.

The biggest problem in this game is Death is NOT meaningful. I really think they need to make your gear get daamged in PVP when you die, right now, you can just run facefirst into a keep wall and rez at the nearest location with no penalty and its dumb. Maybe even a 20% health, stamina, and magic penatly for 5 minutes after you rez, they really need to add something meaningful to dying, it needs slightly more penalties. I don't want PVDoor, but their needs to be slightly more drawnbacks to dying. This will make using your head far more important then just using it for a hat rack like i see many players doing.

Example: ever see the mage running up to the keep walls getting picked off by archers? yup he thinks he is Superman and is going to kill 1 of those guys on the wall..pft...I watch this on a daily basis and just facepalm...what else can you do?


Remember, I never said Crystalized wasn't a good player, i just said i didn't agree with how the ranking system is.

PS: Watch Asgari's previous video on this forum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqfCYQQHIO0

He wipes Crystallized and his group pretty much by himself...does that AP system sound so accurate in skill now? is it reflecting the best players? when 1 guy owns not only the top AP earner, but all of his buddies too pretty much by himself?....see...the system needs fixed, i don't like the AP system, each to their own.

frozywozy

woodsro wrote: »

He wipes Crystallized and his group pretty much by himself...does that AP system sound so accurate in skill now? is it reflecting the best players? when 1 guy owns not only the top AP earner, but all of his buddies too pretty much by himself?....see...the system needs fixed, i don't like the AP system, each to their own.

You cannot say that this player owned that player because there is a video of it happening once. People play several hours a day and alot of things happen. No one is invincible and to err is human. Cheers and great play for princess there, but that simply doesn't make her a better player by any way.

Roselle

frozywozy wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

He wipes Crystallized and his group pretty much by himself...does that AP system sound so accurate in skill now? is it reflecting the best players? when 1 guy owns not only the top AP earner, but all of his buddies too pretty much by himself?....see...the system needs fixed, i don't like the AP system, each to their own.

You cannot say that this player owned that player because there is a video of it happening once. People play several hours a day and alot of things happen. No one is invincible and to err is human. Cheers and great play for princess there, but that simply doesn't make her a better player by any way.

As much as Frozn smacked my face last night, I actually agree with this.

Grim13

The stats that should count, imho, are: keeps taken/defended, resources taken/defended.

Hell, maybe ZOS should throw in bridges and gates as minor objectives and have stats for them too.

That, to me, is more in keeping with the objectives of the game. Leave AP to buying siege and weapons/armour.

RinaldoGandolphi

frozywozy wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

He wipes Crystallized and his group pretty much by himself...does that AP system sound so accurate in skill now? is it reflecting the best players? when 1 guy owns not only the top AP earner, but all of his buddies too pretty much by himself?....see...the system needs fixed, i don't like the AP system, each to their own.

You cannot say that this player owned that player because there is a video of it happening once. People play several hours a day and alot of things happen. No one is invincible and to err is human. Cheers and great play for princess there, but that simply doesn't make her a better player by any way.

True, but this wasn't a 1v1, It was Asgari vs him and 4 of his buddies for most of that fight. If he can't beat Asgari with 3-4 of his buddies helping him, its doubtful he would have much luck 1 on 1, he was also Emp with all the buffs as well, how much more of an advantage do you need?

Rick Flair said it best:

In order to be the man;ya gotta beat the man.

In this case, I'd say Asgari took the title belt and then some JMO

RinaldoGandolphi

Grim13 wrote: »

The stats that should count, imho, are: keeps taken/defended, resources taken/defended.

Hell, maybe ZOS should throw in bridges and gates as minor objectives and have stats for them too.

That, to me, is more in keeping with the objectives of the game. Leave AP to buying siege and weapons/armour.

I would totally agree with this. It would make playing the objective matter and would probably stop resource tower farming which I don't think would be a bad thing.

Joy_Division

woodsro wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

Its honestly a sham title. Heck even how emp is decided is a sham. AP should be used to buy gear and siege and that's all, it shouldn't count for a hoot otherwise.

The top players should be decided by K/d ratio with a set amount of kills required to make the leader board.

Some of the most skilled players in this game will never rank under the current system which really is a shame.

Hell just myself and 1 guildie together killed over 200 people the other night, about a 50-50 split in KB and you could count on 1 hand how many times we both died combined yet the current system doesn't reward smart skillful play, it don't even reward playing the objective and holding the map.

Most, NOT ALL, but most on the top of the leaderboards just hole up in resource towers, spam aoe and bats to rack up AP, its really a pointless system.

Look at guys like Sypher, your telling me those guys are better them him? That's just foolishness, its nonsense. Again, the current state needs to be changed, it doesn't reflect the best players accurately and they shouldn't be aesrding emp titles earned in such a manner. As much as I loathe COD at least your ranked by K/D not by how much exp or money you earn.

- First off, gratz to Crystalized. I've had the pleasure of fighting with and against him/her and it's really sad that some people can't see around their biases and acknowledge how good of a player Crystalized is.

- Kill/death ratio is, IMHO, a very misleading measurement in overall contribution and player "skill". This is my VR4 sorc with crappy gear who eventually got a 173 kill streak from when I was half the player I am today (even though I die more):



I'm sorry, but the people who stand in the back ranks picking off the injured who are just about to die anyway are not somehow more valuable or skillful than the ones in the front lines who are actually taking damage and preventing the enemy from advancing.

- Dying is not necessarily an indicator of a lack of skill. Do you have any idea what the casualty rate was for the first wave of infantrymen hitting Omaha Beach on D-Day? They died not because they lacked "skill" in soldiering, but because they were actually brave enough to be the ones facing enemy fire that allowed the whole operation to be successful. If you can't see the number of times that Crystalized jumped OFF the castle wall and tried to clear an enemy siege line or broke the stalemate at Alessia Bridge by charging into the enemy lines, then you just aren't paying attention.

- What exactly is "skillful" and "smart" play? And why are YOUR definitions the essential truth correct that renders our perspectives invalid. OK, you killed 200 people and died 5 times. I'm sorry, but that really isn't that hard of an accomplishment. 251 kills, 5 deaths, and a 136 streak from a Templar with two of the wrong morphs and suboptimal gear:



You obviously have a problem with people who "spam aoe". Please answer me this: how is "spamming aoe" NOT "smart skillful play" when surrounded by multiple enemies? On the contrary, that strikes me as exactly what "smart skillful play" is! Biased people such as yourself who refuse to use, let alone slot, aoe "spam" on your bars are the ones that get me wiped in dungeon battles like Praxin in Spindleclutch because you don't want to degrade yourself as an "aoe spammer" and insist on sniping one of the 20 enemies who are bearing down on the healer.

Yeah, look at Sypher. Sypher is *very* good at what he does (or at least what he shows on his channel): taking on (and defeating) multiple enemies as a solo player. He is a hell of a player. But Sypher's style is not what defines "skill," it is merely one example of it. Crystalized is also *very* good at what he/she does: operate a coordinated group that uses various skills from different classes so that the whole is larger than the sum of its parts. Just because it is different does not somehow make it wrong or unskillful.

Easy there fella

I never said Crystalized was a bad player, on the contrary i have actually whispered him a time or two, very nice fella. I won't fault him for using the best method to win right now, its part of the game mechanics, it is what it is. He is also a good player when not doing those things as well. So please take it easy.I never said he was a bad player.

Furthermore, i used K/D as 1 of possible factors. The AP system of ranking is currently broken. I don't think its the best way of ranking, i think their should be other factors besides just AP.

I am not against AOE, i use Lighting Flood in Cyrodiil all the time. I use AOE in dungeons all the time to, i have no problem with AOE's at all. Assuming i hate AOE is the wrong assumption, and calling me biased against AOE is simply untrue, you really need to point that in the direction of someone who does hate AOE which isn't hard to find in this thread..

Folks can say what they want about Ezareth, but i molded my style after his...he didn't die much, but he made sure other people did. He was right in the thick of it too, he would make you chase him and fight him on his terms. I play just like him with my own flavor...I kill a lot of people, but i force them to chase me and fight on my terms, or we don't fight. I die to just like everyone else does, I just try to use my head and avoid death if i can. How does sticking around a keep you know is taken as their is 60 EP to your 8-10 defenders, why should i stick around? what good could possibly come out of me dying to them? I can't think of 1 positive.


As for death? General Patton had a famous saying about soldiers and death(have to remove curse words and edit it to be within rules here):

"No man ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other man die for his country.

So General Patton, one of the greatest Generals in America History is telling you there is nothing positive in dying in battle except that your dead.

I don't care about the AOE spam, those that want to use it more power too them. I use it in some situations when the need arises. Most of my fighting happens outside of keeps because most of the time im by myself, every now and then a few of my guildies will hop in, but usually its just me because the guild im an officer in is primarily a PVE guild, they don't really mess with PVP, im pretty much the only one who does..

I would rather scout enemy territory and find small scale engagements there then bother with keeps right now. Its just lag, lag that is no ones fault mind you its just how the game engine is.

The biggest problem in this game is Death is NOT meaningful. I really think they need to make your gear get daamged in PVP when you die, right now, you can just run facefirst into a keep wall and rez at the nearest location with no penalty and its dumb. Maybe even a 20% health, stamina, and magic penatly for 5 minutes after you rez, they really need to add something meaningful to dying, it needs slightly more penalties. I don't want PVDoor, but their needs to be slightly more drawnbacks to dying. This will make using your head far more important then just using it for a hat rack like i see many players doing.

Example: ever see the mage running up to the keep walls getting picked off by archers? yup he thinks he is Superman and is going to kill 1 of those guys on the wall..pft...I watch this on a daily basis and just facepalm...what else can you do?


Remember, I never said Crystalized wasn't a good player, i just said i didn't agree with how the ranking system is.

PS: Watch Asgari's previous video on this forum

He wipes Crystallized and his group pretty much by himself...does that AP system sound so accurate in skill now? is it reflecting the best players? when 1 guy owns not only the top AP earner, but all of his buddies too pretty much by himself?....see...the system needs fixed, i don't like the AP system, each to their own.

If that's how you feel about a thread that is basically about Crystalized, then you should edit your original post where you called the title a sham and basically insinuated that he/she, and others who play like him/her just "hole up in resource towers, spam aoe and bats to rack up AP."

You are right it was a presumptuous inference on my part to say you are biased against aoe...but if you aren't, why do you willingly use the same derogatory insults of the sort that anti-aoe fanatics like Columba throw around? If you think Cyrstalized is a good player and a good person, why not take the thread to congratulate the accomplishment and the skill and dedication necessary to attain it? Why make snide comments like "aoe spam" "bats" and point to resource towers when you know Crystalized and IR spends like 99.6% of their time outside of them?

How does sticking around a keep you know is taken as their is 60 EP to your 8-10 defenders, why should i stick around? what good could possibly come out of me dying to them? I can't think of 1 positive.

I can think of several. First off, it is possible for 8-10 coordinated players in TS to successfully defend a keep/outpost against groups that outnumber them by 4 or 5 times. This was possible before 1.5 because of oils and after 1.5 because of the removal of FCs means friendly reinforcements can arrive at the same time as dead attackers. Secondly, there is still value in a failed defense because it delays the enemy and allows your alliance to react accordingly. This is standard military doctrine. Thirdly, if I am a skillful, smart player, I will get more AP/kills in a losing keep defense than the attackers will gain from capturing the keep. Fourthly, it's fun

"No man ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other man die for his country.

So General Patton, one of the greatest Generals in America History is telling you there is nothing positive in dying in battle except that your dead.

Patton said this, but your interpretation of the quote is incorrect. Patton was reacting to and mocking the sentiment that death in itself in battle was somehow glorious Patton was one of the most aggressive (critics would say reckless) of the US generals in the Second World War who understood that armies must willingly place themselves in dangerous and tenuous positions in order to attain a decisive result. He thus was prone to giving orders that willingly (and some might argue needlessly) placed the men under his command at risk more frequently than his cautious peers. A death that led to a decisive or positive military result was very meaningful to Patton.

I also disagree with your assessment that death has no penalty. As you indicate very strongly that you loath dying, that in-itself has meaning, even if it is just wounded pride or a bruised ego. Before the removal of FCs, one might advance the argument that you do regarding throwing bodies at a castle breech. However, at this point in the game, a major wipe at breech means the offensive has failed: the keep will be fully repaired and the faction on full alert by the time the dead gallop back. Yep I do see the mage who runs up to the castle walls like Rambo and gets himself killed. As an attacker I cringe because I know that's 1 less warm body for 5 minutes or more...

As for Asgari's video...what does that prove? I have the kill counter and you know who was the player I get killed the most? Crystalized (ahem...he/she was also my biggest nemesis ). Should I be crowned Grand Overlord? I can upload edited videos and screenshots of me "owning" prominent names in Cyrodiil and it's biased, selective, and meaningless since I certainly won't upload the times I get my ass kicked.

I get the AP system isn't perfect and perhaps some sort of +/- system that takes into account how much AP you GAVE the other team through dying and unsuccessful keep assaults and defenses might be more accurate (but then again...why should I be punished for idiots who unnecessarily aggro the porch NPCs or the times get facerolled by 20 enemies when skill cannot save me?). But the fact of the matter is that we are all playing under the same rules and AP is primarily received by killing enemies and strategic defenses/assaults which is reasonable enough. I've seen Crystalized adjust and evolve his/her tactics and I see the IR guild make aggressive moves that would make Patton proud so I think the potential Grand Overlord achievement ought to be chivalrously acknowledged rather than implicitly denigrated.

RinaldoGandolphi

Joy_Division wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

Its honestly a sham title. Heck even how emp is decided is a sham. AP should be used to buy gear and siege and that's all, it shouldn't count for a hoot otherwise.

The top players should be decided by K/d ratio with a set amount of kills required to make the leader board.

Some of the most skilled players in this game will never rank under the current system which really is a shame.

Hell just myself and 1 guildie together killed over 200 people the other night, about a 50-50 split in KB and you could count on 1 hand how many times we both died combined yet the current system doesn't reward smart skillful play, it don't even reward playing the objective and holding the map.

Most, NOT ALL, but most on the top of the leaderboards just hole up in resource towers, spam aoe and bats to rack up AP, its really a pointless system.

Look at guys like Sypher, your telling me those guys are better them him? That's just foolishness, its nonsense. Again, the current state needs to be changed, it doesn't reflect the best players accurately and they shouldn't be aesrding emp titles earned in such a manner. As much as I loathe COD at least your ranked by K/D not by how much exp or money you earn.

- First off, gratz to Crystalized. I've had the pleasure of fighting with and against him/her and it's really sad that some people can't see around their biases and acknowledge how good of a player Crystalized is.

- Kill/death ratio is, IMHO, a very misleading measurement in overall contribution and player "skill". This is my VR4 sorc with crappy gear who eventually got a 173 kill streak from when I was half the player I am today (even though I die more):



I'm sorry, but the people who stand in the back ranks picking off the injured who are just about to die anyway are not somehow more valuable or skillful than the ones in the front lines who are actually taking damage and preventing the enemy from advancing.

- Dying is not necessarily an indicator of a lack of skill. Do you have any idea what the casualty rate was for the first wave of infantrymen hitting Omaha Beach on D-Day? They died not because they lacked "skill" in soldiering, but because they were actually brave enough to be the ones facing enemy fire that allowed the whole operation to be successful. If you can't see the number of times that Crystalized jumped OFF the castle wall and tried to clear an enemy siege line or broke the stalemate at Alessia Bridge by charging into the enemy lines, then you just aren't paying attention.

- What exactly is "skillful" and "smart" play? And why are YOUR definitions the essential truth correct that renders our perspectives invalid. OK, you killed 200 people and died 5 times. I'm sorry, but that really isn't that hard of an accomplishment. 251 kills, 5 deaths, and a 136 streak from a Templar with two of the wrong morphs and suboptimal gear:



You obviously have a problem with people who "spam aoe". Please answer me this: how is "spamming aoe" NOT "smart skillful play" when surrounded by multiple enemies? On the contrary, that strikes me as exactly what "smart skillful play" is! Biased people such as yourself who refuse to use, let alone slot, aoe "spam" on your bars are the ones that get me wiped in dungeon battles like Praxin in Spindleclutch because you don't want to degrade yourself as an "aoe spammer" and insist on sniping one of the 20 enemies who are bearing down on the healer.

Yeah, look at Sypher. Sypher is *very* good at what he does (or at least what he shows on his channel): taking on (and defeating) multiple enemies as a solo player. He is a hell of a player. But Sypher's style is not what defines "skill," it is merely one example of it. Crystalized is also *very* good at what he/she does: operate a coordinated group that uses various skills from different classes so that the whole is larger than the sum of its parts. Just because it is different does not somehow make it wrong or unskillful.

Easy there fella

I never said Crystalized was a bad player, on the contrary i have actually whispered him a time or two, very nice fella. I won't fault him for using the best method to win right now, its part of the game mechanics, it is what it is. He is also a good player when not doing those things as well. So please take it easy.I never said he was a bad player.

Furthermore, i used K/D as 1 of possible factors. The AP system of ranking is currently broken. I don't think its the best way of ranking, i think their should be other factors besides just AP.

I am not against AOE, i use Lighting Flood in Cyrodiil all the time. I use AOE in dungeons all the time to, i have no problem with AOE's at all. Assuming i hate AOE is the wrong assumption, and calling me biased against AOE is simply untrue, you really need to point that in the direction of someone who does hate AOE which isn't hard to find in this thread..

Folks can say what they want about Ezareth, but i molded my style after his...he didn't die much, but he made sure other people did. He was right in the thick of it too, he would make you chase him and fight him on his terms. I play just like him with my own flavor...I kill a lot of people, but i force them to chase me and fight on my terms, or we don't fight. I die to just like everyone else does, I just try to use my head and avoid death if i can. How does sticking around a keep you know is taken as their is 60 EP to your 8-10 defenders, why should i stick around? what good could possibly come out of me dying to them? I can't think of 1 positive.


As for death? General Patton had a famous saying about soldiers and death(have to remove curse words and edit it to be within rules here):

"No man ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other man die for his country.

So General Patton, one of the greatest Generals in America History is telling you there is nothing positive in dying in battle except that your dead.

I don't care about the AOE spam, those that want to use it more power too them. I use it in some situations when the need arises. Most of my fighting happens outside of keeps because most of the time im by myself, every now and then a few of my guildies will hop in, but usually its just me because the guild im an officer in is primarily a PVE guild, they don't really mess with PVP, im pretty much the only one who does..

I would rather scout enemy territory and find small scale engagements there then bother with keeps right now. Its just lag, lag that is no ones fault mind you its just how the game engine is.

The biggest problem in this game is Death is NOT meaningful. I really think they need to make your gear get daamged in PVP when you die, right now, you can just run facefirst into a keep wall and rez at the nearest location with no penalty and its dumb. Maybe even a 20% health, stamina, and magic penatly for 5 minutes after you rez, they really need to add something meaningful to dying, it needs slightly more penalties. I don't want PVDoor, but their needs to be slightly more drawnbacks to dying. This will make using your head far more important then just using it for a hat rack like i see many players doing.

Example: ever see the mage running up to the keep walls getting picked off by archers? yup he thinks he is Superman and is going to kill 1 of those guys on the wall..pft...I watch this on a daily basis and just facepalm...what else can you do?


Remember, I never said Crystalized wasn't a good player, i just said i didn't agree with how the ranking system is.

PS: Watch Asgari's previous video on this forum

He wipes Crystallized and his group pretty much by himself...does that AP system sound so accurate in skill now? is it reflecting the best players? when 1 guy owns not only the top AP earner, but all of his buddies too pretty much by himself?....see...the system needs fixed, i don't like the AP system, each to their own.

If that's how you feel about a thread that is basically about Crystalized, then you should edit your original post where you called the title a sham and basically insinuated that he/she, and others who play like him/her just "hole up in resource towers, spam aoe and bats to rack up AP."

You are right it was a presumptuous inference on my part to say you are biased against aoe...but if you aren't, why do you willingly use the same derogatory insults of the sort that anti-aoe fanatics like Columba throw around? If you think Cyrstalized is a good player and a good person, why not take the thread to congratulate the accomplishment and the skill and dedication necessary to attain it? Why make snide comments like "aoe spam" "bats" and point to resource towers when you know Crystalized and IR spends like 99.6% of their time outside of them?

How does sticking around a keep you know is taken as their is 60 EP to your 8-10 defenders, why should i stick around? what good could possibly come out of me dying to them? I can't think of 1 positive.

I can think of several. First off, it is possible for 8-10 coordinated players in TS to successfully defend a keep/outpost against groups that outnumber them by 4 or 5 times. This was possible before 1.5 because of oils and after 1.5 because of the removal of FCs means friendly reinforcements can arrive at the same time as dead attackers. Secondly, there is still value in a failed defense because it delays the enemy and allows your alliance to react accordingly. This is standard military doctrine. Thirdly, if I am a skillful, smart player, I will get more AP/kills in a losing keep defense than the attackers will gain from capturing the keep. Fourthly, it's fun

"No man ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other man die for his country.

So General Patton, one of the greatest Generals in America History is telling you there is nothing positive in dying in battle except that your dead.

Patton said this, but your interpretation of the quote is incorrect. Patton was reacting to and mocking the sentiment that death in itself in battle was somehow glorious Patton was one of the most aggressive (critics would say reckless) of the US generals in the Second World War who understood that armies must willingly place themselves in dangerous and tenuous positions in order to attain a decisive result. He thus was prone to giving orders that willingly (and some might argue needlessly) placed the men under his command at risk more frequently than his cautious peers. A death that led to a decisive or positive military result was very meaningful to Patton.

I also disagree with your assessment that death has no penalty. As you indicate very strongly that you loath dying, that in-itself has meaning, even if it is just wounded pride or a bruised ego. Before the removal of FCs, one might advance the argument that you do regarding throwing bodies at a castle breech. However, at this point in the game, a major wipe at breech means the offensive has failed: the keep will be fully repaired and the faction on full alert by the time the dead gallop back. Yep I do see the mage who runs up to the castle walls like Rambo and gets himself killed. As an attacker I cringe because I know that's 1 less warm body for 5 minutes or more...

As for Asgari's video...what does that prove? I have the kill counter and you know who was the player I get killed the most? Crystalized (ahem...he/she was also my biggest nemesis ). Should I be crowned Grand Overlord? I can upload edited videos and screenshots of me "owning" prominent names in Cyrodiil and it's biased, selective, and meaningless since I certainly won't upload the times I get my ass kicked.

I get the AP system isn't perfect and perhaps some sort of +/- system that takes into account how much AP you GAVE the other team through dying and unsuccessful keep assaults and defenses might be more accurate (but then again...why should I be punished for idiots who unnecessarily aggro the porch NPCs or the times get facerolled by 20 enemies when skill cannot save me?). But the fact of the matter is that we are all playing under the same rules and AP is primarily received by killing enemies and strategic defenses/assaults which is reasonable enough. I've seen Crystalized adjust and evolve his/her tactics and I see the IR guild make aggressive moves that would make Patton proud so I think the potential Grand Overlord achievement ought to be chivalrously acknowledged rather than implicitly denigrated.

Fair enough. I guess I could see where it would come off that way, and I do apologize if insulted Crystalized because that was not my intent, and the resource tower farming statement was not directed at him, I have never seen him farming a resource tower, he usually pushes and takes keeps.

I know some don't like his methods, but I have no issues with it. He has a plan he carries out and my hats off to him for doing it so successfuly. There is real thought and strategy behind what he does and I recognize that.

I'm just hoping in the future the ranking system is readjusted perhaps based on resources taken, defended, keeps taken or defended, bridges, etc and AP is just used to buy stuff.

I will edit my post to remove the parts that could be insulting as that was nit my intent and it was unfair of me to vent my frustration over the ranking system in a way that could be seen as insulting.

Mt apologies Crystalized, and congrats on getting that Warlord rank soon.

Alomar

Congrats Cryst.it's been a blast fighting alongside you guys.

If only ranks were account bound I'd be in the high 30's =(

Cody

How much AP does it take to get from AR 1 to AR50(which I think may be grand warlord, or was that overlord?)

Subtomik

kijima wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

kijima wrote: »

So it is true.

Crystalized is the best AP farmer on the NA server.

How much does this smell of jealousy!?! Even if you are right - it makes you look petty and jealous.

Can you point to where I said that there was anything wrong with being an AP farmer? And seeing how he is the 1st to achieve it, does that not automatically mean he is the best at farming?

As for the jealousy thing, believe it or not, Alliance Rank isn't a blip on my radar. I work, have children, a hot wife (Hell, you'd be jealous of me if you saw her as I'm punching well above my weight) and numerous other hobbies and toys outside of ESO.

I just cracked Major about a week ago with my main and I was stoked with that achievement, might not be an achievement to some around here, but to me it was pretty cool and I'm happy with that

~ Your Sincerely,

Confused yet Content

Only 1 question left unanswered. What's your wife up to tonight?

Asgari

First and foremost, Crystalized is a great player and leader. As for those randomly going back and forth if im a better player than him or his crew you cant compare the two. In just one nights play i throw my willing body deep into their delicious crew repeatedly. On an average night I will at minimum take 1-2 down with me before their group kills me; some nights i get far more kills in that push.

My codex however has almost no one with more kills over deaths on me. I play very aggressive but smart in where i strike at the same time. I have told Crystalized and others that i would play with them some nights if it was possible. He is always friendly and the messages back and forth are always lulz worthy. The same goes for my AD friends whom I do this with.

Those who are upset and decide to belittle him for his accomplishments are those who simply cant do it, or get swept up by his crew on a nightly basis.

Joy_Division

woodsro wrote: »

Fair enough. I guess I could see where it would come off that way, and I do apologize if insulted Crystalized because that was not my intent, and the resource tower farming statement was not directed at him, I have never seen him farming a resource tower, he usually pushes and takes keeps.

I know some don't like his methods, but I have no issues with it. He has a plan he carries out and my hats off to him for doing it so successfuly. There is real thought and strategy behind what he does and I recognize that.

I'm just hoping in the future the ranking system is readjusted perhaps based on resources taken, defended, keeps taken or defended, bridges, etc and AP is just used to buy stuff.

I will edit my post to remove the parts that could be insulting as that was nit my intent and it was unfair of me to vent my frustration over the ranking system in a way that could be seen as insulting.

Mt apologies Crystalized, and congrats on getting that Warlord rank soon.

You know what, YOU deserve kudos for what I say rarely see on the internet. I don't if you necessarily need to apologize to him, but the fact that your are willing to do so in public speaks volumes about you. Especially when I was more accusatory than should have been. Awesome and good luck to you out there!

Phaedrus

Cody wrote: »

How much AP does it take to get from AR 1 to AR50(which I think may be grand warlord, or was that overlord?)

64 million or so.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/96794/64-680-700-alliance-points-required-to-get-to-pvp-rank-50

Or A LOT !!

Roechacca

I'm still not calling Him Grand Warlord . Take THAT ZoS title devolpment committee.

Cody

I remember when First sergeant was the maximum rank, and grand warlord(or grand overlord, whichever it is) came before.

lol. Oh ZOS, you make me laugh sometimes:)

Cody

woodsro wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

Its honestly a sham title. Heck even how emp is decided is a sham. AP should be used to buy gear and siege and that's all, it shouldn't count for a hoot otherwise.

The top players should be decided by K/d ratio with a set amount of kills required to make the leader board.

Some of the most skilled players in this game will never rank under the current system which really is a shame.

Hell just myself and 1 guildie together killed over 200 people the other night, about a 50-50 split in KB and you could count on 1 hand how many times we both died combined yet the current system doesn't reward smart skillful play, it don't even reward playing the objective and holding the map.

Most, NOT ALL, but most on the top of the leaderboards just hole up in resource towers, spam aoe and bats to rack up AP, its really a pointless system.

Look at guys like Sypher, your telling me those guys are better them him? That's just foolishness, its nonsense. Again, the current state needs to be changed, it doesn't reflect the best players accurately and they shouldn't be aesrding emp titles earned in such a manner. As much as I loathe COD at least your ranked by K/D not by how much exp or money you earn.

- First off, gratz to Crystalized. I've had the pleasure of fighting with and against him/her and it's really sad that some people can't see around their biases and acknowledge how good of a player Crystalized is.

- Kill/death ratio is, IMHO, a very misleading measurement in overall contribution and player "skill". This is my VR4 sorc with crappy gear who eventually got a 173 kill streak from when I was half the player I am today (even though I die more):



I'm sorry, but the people who stand in the back ranks picking off the injured who are just about to die anyway are not somehow more valuable or skillful than the ones in the front lines who are actually taking damage and preventing the enemy from advancing.

- Dying is not necessarily an indicator of a lack of skill. Do you have any idea what the casualty rate was for the first wave of infantrymen hitting Omaha Beach on D-Day? They died not because they lacked "skill" in soldiering, but because they were actually brave enough to be the ones facing enemy fire that allowed the whole operation to be successful. If you can't see the number of times that Crystalized jumped OFF the castle wall and tried to clear an enemy siege line or broke the stalemate at Alessia Bridge by charging into the enemy lines, then you just aren't paying attention.

- What exactly is "skillful" and "smart" play? And why are YOUR definitions the essential truth correct that renders our perspectives invalid. OK, you killed 200 people and died 5 times. I'm sorry, but that really isn't that hard of an accomplishment. 251 kills, 5 deaths, and a 136 streak from a Templar with two of the wrong morphs and suboptimal gear:



You obviously have a problem with people who "spam aoe". Please answer me this: how is "spamming aoe" NOT "smart skillful play" when surrounded by multiple enemies? On the contrary, that strikes me as exactly what "smart skillful play" is! Biased people such as yourself who refuse to use, let alone slot, aoe "spam" on your bars are the ones that get me wiped in dungeon battles like Praxin in Spindleclutch because you don't want to degrade yourself as an "aoe spammer" and insist on sniping one of the 20 enemies who are bearing down on the healer.

Yeah, look at Sypher. Sypher is *very* good at what he does (or at least what he shows on his channel): taking on (and defeating) multiple enemies as a solo player. He is a hell of a player. But Sypher's style is not what defines "skill," it is merely one example of it. Crystalized is also *very* good at what he/she does: operate a coordinated group that uses various skills from different classes so that the whole is larger than the sum of its parts. Just because it is different does not somehow make it wrong or unskillful.

Easy there fella

I never said Crystalized was a bad player, on the contrary i have actually whispered him a time or two, very nice fella. I won't fault him for using the best method to win right now, its part of the game mechanics, it is what it is. He is also a good player when not doing those things as well. So please take it easy.I never said he was a bad player.

Furthermore, i used K/D as 1 of possible factors. The AP system of ranking is currently broken. I don't think its the best way of ranking, i think their should be other factors besides just AP.

I am not against AOE, i use Lighting Flood in Cyrodiil all the time. I use AOE in dungeons all the time to, i have no problem with AOE's at all. Assuming i hate AOE is the wrong assumption, and calling me biased against AOE is simply untrue, you really need to point that in the direction of someone who does hate AOE which isn't hard to find in this thread..

Folks can say what they want about Ezareth, but i molded my style after his...he didn't die much, but he made sure other people did. He was right in the thick of it too, he would make you chase him and fight him on his terms. I play just like him with my own flavor...I kill a lot of people, but i force them to chase me and fight on my terms, or we don't fight. I die to just like everyone else does, I just try to use my head and avoid death if i can. How does sticking around a keep you know is taken as their is 60 EP to your 8-10 defenders, why should i stick around? what good could possibly come out of me dying to them? I can't think of 1 positive.


As for death? General Patton had a famous saying about soldiers and death(have to remove curse words and edit it to be within rules here):

"No man ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other man die for his country.

So General Patton, one of the greatest Generals in America History is telling you there is nothing positive in dying in battle except that your dead.

I don't care about the AOE spam, those that want to use it more power too them. I use it in some situations when the need arises. Most of my fighting happens outside of keeps because most of the time im by myself, every now and then a few of my guildies will hop in, but usually its just me because the guild im an officer in is primarily a PVE guild, they don't really mess with PVP, im pretty much the only one who does..

I would rather scout enemy territory and find small scale engagements there then bother with keeps right now. Its just lag, lag that is no ones fault mind you its just how the game engine is.

The biggest problem in this game is Death is NOT meaningful. I really think they need to make your gear get daamged in PVP when you die, right now, you can just run facefirst into a keep wall and rez at the nearest location with no penalty and its dumb. Maybe even a 20% health, stamina, and magic penatly for 5 minutes after you rez, they really need to add something meaningful to dying, it needs slightly more penalties. I don't want PVDoor, but their needs to be slightly more drawnbacks to dying. This will make using your head far more important then just using it for a hat rack like i see many players doing.

Example: ever see the mage running up to the keep walls getting picked off by archers? yup he thinks he is Superman and is going to kill 1 of those guys on the wall..pft...I watch this on a daily basis and just facepalm...what else can you do?


Remember, I never said Crystalized wasn't a good player, i just said i didn't agree with how the ranking system is.

PS: Watch Asgari's previous video on this forum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqfCYQQHIO0

He wipes Crystallized and his group pretty much by himself...does that AP system sound so accurate in skill now? is it reflecting the best players? when 1 guy owns not only the top AP earner, but all of his buddies too pretty much by himself?....see...the system needs fixed, i don't like the AP system, each to their own.

If gear was made to degrade when killed in PvP, then I and many others would not be able to PvP, as we would not be able to keep up with the repair bills, and not everyone goes 150-3 in their K/D ratios.

There are better solutions to make death meaningful in PVP besides gear degradation.

Cody

FluffiestOne wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Lord Fixate is NOT fixate, he is an Emp farmer fraud.

You trying to start some beef, m80? I'm still wondering why Dyvith gave you leadership of Alacrity, wonder what shame you caused him to do that.

PS: Stop being salty that I took an AD buff server, what it turned into afterwards I had nothing to do with. #RememberHopesfire

quiet! neither of you are members of the glorious Ebonheart Pact; therefore both of you are lesser beings and that is that!:D

Roechacca

I have a relative that's EP . He got nothing for Christmas from me .

kijima

Subtomik wrote: »

Only 1 question left unanswered. What's your wife up to tonight?

Lol sub, nice!

miahq

Grim13 wrote: »

The stats that should count, imho, are: keeps taken/defended, resources taken/defended.

Hell, maybe ZOS should throw in bridges and gates as minor objectives and have stats for them too.

That, to me, is more in keeping with the objectives of the game. Leave AP to buying siege and weapons/armour.

This is my only criticism, more around emperor. If they want it AvAvA, you're encouraging guild vs guild. So why not have emperor go to the leader of the guild that took/held the most keeps for their side? Or just some mechanic that actually makes it about the AvA concept. Points are fine for me in an arena style setting, but that's not what it's supposed to be. It's like the meshed two completely different systems together.

As far as the ranks are concerned, I'm fine with it coming from AP, as it's still a way to reward people for that component. But it shouldn't all be based on AP so much.

Asgari

The reason the AP gain was chosen for crowning Emp is because choosing an emp based off of keeps taken / defended is far too difficult. If also elected by the people would fall to favoritism and many wouldn't have an equal chance. It surely wouldn't be voted upon for skill and or leadership abilities.

bosmern_ESO

He plays way to much, I want to see his /played

Columba

pulse chimped his way to the lead, lol. real skill lagging out the server!

NordJitsu

Columba wrote: »

pulse chimped his way to the lead, lol. real skill lagging out the server!

I almost want to go back through all of your posts and tally the percentage that includes the phrase "chimp spam" or some other variation.

I'm guessing its >90%.

Cody

Columba wrote: »

pulse chimped his way to the lead, lol. real skill lagging out the server!

You should make a guild dedicated to getting rid of impulse blobing.

I think you would do quite well

Grim13

NordJitsu wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

pulse chimped his way to the lead, lol. real skill lagging out the server!

I almost want to go back through all of your posts and tally the percentage that includes the phrase "chimp spam" or some other variation.

I'm guessing its >90%.

He's nothing if not persistent... To his credit, "chimp spamming", and variations there of, have made their way into even the AD's daily zone chat vernacular.

Zavus

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

First and foremost, Crystalized is a great player and leader. As for those randomly going back and forth if im a better player than him or his crew you cant compare the two. In just one nights play i throw my willing body deep into their delicious crew repeatedly. On an average night I will at minimum take 1-2 down with me before their group kills me; some nights i get far more kills in that push.

My codex however has almost no one with more kills over deaths on me. I play very aggressive but smart in where i strike at the same time. I have told Crystalized and others that i would play with them some nights if it was possible. He is always friendly and the messages back and forth are always lulz worthy. The same goes for my AD friends whom I do this with.

Those who are upset and decide to belittle him for his accomplishments are those who simply cant do it, or get swept up by his crew on a nightly basis.

Yes come play with us and then we can tbag subtomik together xD

Sotha_Sil

Congrats ! being lvl 45 while playing an insanely laggy PVP is quite an achievement ! (I'm serious)

But tbh, if I had done such a thing, I would have gone insane so I'm glad I didn't do it. But congrats anyways.