A Big problem that Nobody is even talking about.

Keiffo

kieso wrote: »

As someone who has a VR 12, VR3 and a VR 5 these changes are good. It will make the game less grindy, feel more open and make the exp system less convoluted.

If you feel you're getting shafted because of the amount of work you had to do versus newer players then you need to reevaluate why you play this game.

ESO is a job, not a game. (apparently)

olemanwinter

"e.chiesa73b16_ESO wrote: »

"even now the difference between a new level 50 and a vr14 is not in their difference in attribute points (so few that don't really matter) but in their gear. And you know what? That difference will be the same came 1.6.
We vr14 will be much more powerfull than any fresh 50. STOP WHINING!!

How so? Levels are going away. Use will allocate your champion points to unlock the ability to use the elite gear.

Read that as many times as it takes to sink in.

So, a fresh 50 will have the same exact choice you do, spend the points to wear the gear or spend the points on the build.

The same choice. Same gear. Same. Same. Same.

olemanwinter

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

I may be wrong, but all I read is "Waaah, the evil devs are going to hurt my carefully build up elitist feeling of (imagined) superiority over others in a virtual online game."

What's so bad about having even more people to play with in particular zones in a Massively Multiplayer Online game? Ooooh, because they're not the right ones, are they?

No. You are wrong. My problem is that game has effectively been shrunken. There is no sense of accomplishment or character progression. And there is practically no reason to EVER go visit another alliance zone.

You can't cross-faction group for dungeons. You are locked out of your favorite pvp campaigns with alts. So, making an Alt is pointless. And now, logically, being way over-powered it's going to be zero fun to go back and play them as Vet zones.

The game shrunk.

Why get rid of VR at all? Why not leave it along side the CP system and dramatically raise the XP of VR content?

It would give existing players a head start.

It would keep elite level gear elite a little longer.

But most importantly (to the devs and casuals) it would make leveling from lvl 50 to VR14 much faster with more XP + champion points.

Guppet

olemanwinter wrote: »

"e.chiesa73b16_ESO wrote: »

"even now the difference between a new level 50 and a vr14 is not in their difference in attribute points (so few that don't really matter) but in their gear. And you know what? That difference will be the same came 1.6.
We vr14 will be much more powerfull than any fresh 50. STOP WHINING!!

How so? Levels are going away. Use will allocate your champion points to unlock the ability to use the elite gear.

Read that as many times as it takes to sink in.

So, a fresh 50 will have the same exact choice you do, spend the points to wear the gear or spend the points on the build.

The same choice. Same gear. Same. Same. Same.

Where does this using CP to unlock gear come from. Its not in anyway been said by the devs, unless some one wants to link a post saying that.

All gear will require level 50, that much they have confirmed. That is all they have confirmed.

It could very well be that gear requires level 50 but each season it gets a slightly higher item level, like just about ever other MMO that has seasonal gear. Why would it possibly need CP to be usable. So long as the latest seasons gear is only available from the current content, its already got limited availability.

olemanwinter

dietlime wrote: »

There will be CP nodes that unlock the gear the same way VR ranks do now. That's the only way they can reconcile the gear system without breaking the game.

So, I will have to use my CP to use the same gear I already have and wear, meanwhile a fresh 50 will get to use all his points on his build and buffs.

So, it's like 6 of one, half dozen of the other. SAMENESS

You can have elite gear (which serve no purpose other than stat buffs) at the expense of using the champion points for.....wait for it...stat buffs.

Now that's hilarious. And sad. And stupid.

Baphomet

I guess this question has been asked many times before, but I have been out of the loop recently so bear with me.

What about those people who have multiple VR 14 characters. Will they get 30 champion points of each character or do we just get 30 in total that we can distribute between all the characters?

Heishi

Might just be me, but I'm hoping the equalization of the top end characters leads to a being more competitive in skills, not who can grind hardest and spend the most gold on items.

That'd be a shame if we had to rely on skill no? Haha

Guppet

olemanwinter wrote: »

dietlime wrote: »

There will be CP nodes that unlock the gear the same way VR ranks do now. That's the only way they can reconcile the gear system without breaking the game.

So, I will have to use my CP to use the same gear I already have and wear, meanwhile a fresh 50 will get to use all his points on his build and buffs.

So, it's like 6 of one, half dozen of the other. SAMENESS

You can have elite gear (which serve no purpose other than stat buffs) at the expense of using the champion points for.....wait for it...stat buffs.

Now that's hilarious. And sad. And stupid.

He is making up using CP to unlock gear, that has not be in anyway stated by ZOS. The only thing they have said about gear is all the VR gear will require level 50 when VR levels have been removed, they have confirmed nothing further.

olemanwinter

dietlime wrote: »

So the real advice is: save your gold now. If you're VR1 now buy VR14 gear NOW. There are about to be a whole lot of people who want VR14 gear.

How awesome for them.

I had to complete Caldwell's Silver and Gold, some Crag quests, and grind trash mobs and Dolmens to get to VR14 for the privilege of buying that gear.

I wish I hadn't played this game at launch. I shouldn't have preordered. I shouldn't have played beta. I should have let the game mature and come in when I get all the shiney for zero effort cause they are desperate for subs.

KhajitFurTrader

Guppet wrote: »

He is making up using CP to unlock gear, that has not be in anyway stated by ZOS. The only thing they have said about gear is all the VR gear will require level 50 when VR levels have been removed, they have confirmed nothing further.

Shush! You're debunking his made-up "Big problem that Nobody is even talking about". How rude and unfair of you to counter fiction with facts!

Subtomik

Something no one is discussing is what will happen if we do all get on equal footing, and everyone is expected to do the same content? You think that someone who couldn't hit vet14 in a year has any place being thrust into DSA or SO?

Nothing wrong with not wanting to rush, but think carefully about the ramifications of you being placed on equal footing with people who have had on farm content you don't even understand.

olemanwinter

delete

olemanwinter

Guppet wrote: »

Where does this using CP to unlock gear come from. Its not in anyway been said by the devs, unless some one wants to link a post saying that.

Pretty sure it was said in the latest ESO live.

But if not, then there is EVEN LESS difference as anyone will just buy the VR14 equivalent gear at lvl

So, either way, the gear won't make a difference!

Either the gear will be tied to CP, which you will then choose to spend on either stat-buffing gear or just plain stat-buffs (same thing, just semantics) or it's not tied to anything at all and it will be the same for everyone.

Logically, any way you slice it, gear is not going to be the difference, unless they just reduce the drop rate on elite gear to practically zero to make it rare for new max-level players.

Heck, maybe it can get so expensive we could get some gold sellers back in the game.

Then it really would be like a relaunch. lmao

Guppet

Subtomik wrote: »

Something no one is discussing is what will happen if we do all get on equal footing, and everyone is expected to do the same content? You think that someone who couldn't hit vet14 in a year has any place being thrust into DSA or SO?

Nothing wrong with not wanting to rush, but think carefully about the ramifications of you being placed on equal footing with people who have had on farm content you don't even understand.

Then maybe they try it and find out that they need to improve, then actually you know look at how to improve. its possible to get better you know.

Subtomik

Guppet wrote: »

Then maybe they try it and find out that they need to improve, then actually you know look at how to improve. its possible to get better you know.

Sure it is, at a pace comfortable with you.

I doubt someone who couldn't hit level cap in a year is willing to put in the effort to learn complex mechanics. Something tells me if they wanted to progress they would of by now.

Breg_Magol

olemanwinter wrote: »

dietlime wrote: »

So the real advice is: save your gold now. If you're VR1 now buy VR14 gear NOW. There are about to be a whole lot of people who want VR14 gear.

... I wish I hadn't played this game at launch. I shouldn't have preordered. I shouldn't have played beta. I should have let the game mature and come in when I get all the shiney for zero effort cause they are desperate for subs.

I should have known better with a girl like youooooo
That I would love everything that you dooooooo
And I do, hey hey hey, and I dooooowhooo!

Whoa, whoa, I never realized what I kiss could beeeeheee
This could only happen to meeeeeheeee
Can't you see, can't you seeeeeeheeee?

That when I tell you that I love you, ooooohoooo
You're gonna say you love me too, oh hoho
And when I ask you to be mine
You're gonna say you love me too

So I should've realized a lot of things before
If this is love you gotta give me more
Give me more, hey hey hey, give me more

Whoa, whoa, I never realized what a kiss could be
This could only happen to me
Can't you see, can't you see?

That when I tell you that I love you, oh
You're gonna say you love me too, oh
And when I ask you to be mine
You're gonna say you love me too
You love me too
You love me too
You love me too

Songwriters
LENNON, JOHN / MCCARTNEY, PAUL

TheLaw

It's obvious the champ system is another time sink, I just wish we would have been properly rewarded for the time we've already spent playing.

Guppet

Subtomik wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Then maybe they try it and find out that they need to improve, then actually you know look at how to improve. its possible to get better you know.

Sure it is, at a pace comfortable with you.

I doubt someone who couldn't hit level cap in a year is willing to put in the effort to learn complex mechanics. Something tells me if they wanted to progress they would of by now.

Or just maybe they don't have as much time for gaming as the more dedicated players? What with reaching VR14 requiring in the region of 300 hours played, if you do it via questing, that's a fairly large time investment to the more casual player.

Subtomik

Guppet wrote: »

Subtomik wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Then maybe they try it and find out that they need to improve, then actually you know look at how to improve. its possible to get better you know.

Sure it is, at a pace comfortable with you.

I doubt someone who couldn't hit level cap in a year is willing to put in the effort to learn complex mechanics. Something tells me if they wanted to progress they would of by now.

Or just maybe they don't have as much time for gaming as the more dedicated players? What with reaching VR14 requiring in the region of 300 hours played, if you do it via questing, that's a fairly large time investment to the more casual player.

300 hours to hit v14?

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Inappropriate Content]

Guppet

Subtomik wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Subtomik wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Then maybe they try it and find out that they need to improve, then actually you know look at how to improve. its possible to get better you know.

Sure it is, at a pace comfortable with you.

I doubt someone who couldn't hit level cap in a year is willing to put in the effort to learn complex mechanics. Something tells me if they wanted to progress they would of by now.

Or just maybe they don't have as much time for gaming as the more dedicated players? What with reaching VR14 requiring in the region of 300 hours played, if you do it via questing, that's a fairly large time investment to the more casual player.

300 hours to hit v14? Are you smoking crack?

So you expect these casual players to have not explored at all and to have played at maximum velocity? 300 hours is quite a reasonable timescale for someone taking in all the sights doing all the things in each zone. That's just over 12 days played. There was another thread asking how long it takes people to get to 50, 4 days was quite a common answer for the questers and since VR levels are harder, saying 12 in all is pretty reasonable.

No need to throw around insults just because you cant counter what im saying.

KaneK899ub17_ESO

olemanwinter wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Where does this using CP to unlock gear come from. Its not in anyway been said by the devs, unless some one wants to link a post saying that.

Pretty sure it was said in the latest ESO live.

But if not, then there is EVEN LESS difference as anyone will just buy the VR14 equivalent gear at lvl

So, either way, the gear won't make a difference!

Either the gear will be tied to CP, which you will then choose to spend on either stat-buffing gear or just plain stat-buffs (same thing, just semantics) or it's not tied to anything at all and it will be the same for everyone.

Logically, any way you slice it, gear is not going to be the difference, unless they just reduce the drop rate on elite gear to practically zero to make it rare for new max-level players.

Heck, maybe it can get so expensive we could get some gold sellers back in the game.

Then it really would be like a relaunch. lmao

I don't understand this line of thinking. You're mad because gear will be equivalent for lvl 50s? You do realize that VR14 gear is equivalent now, right? You might as well complain about that. In fact, there's barely a difference between like, V10 or V12 gear and V14 gear. A few points of armor and resources.

People who complain about "working" in a game are not playing for the right reasons. I've been VR14 since forever and a half ago, but I don't care one iota about this stupid ***. Know why? I got to VR14 because I wanted to be competitive. That's what I enjoy. And I'll still be competitive with 30 CP and lvl 50 instead. It's not a damn job, it's a game. Enjoy it.

Gear won't be unlocked via champ points. That's asinine.

Trusting any information as being 100% factual and effective before content is even released is the biggest mistake most of you make. It should be common knowledge by now that -everything- is subject to change. Good Lord, you'd think half of you have never played an MMO before.

Finally, you pay a subscription for access to the servers. You bought a license to access and use the client and an account code when you bought the box/digital download. You did not buy a game and ZOS can change said service at any time. This is pretty standard for every. Single. Service with a subscription in the world. From cell phone plans to internet plans. You have a right to discontinue service or change your plan to a different plan. With stuff like phones, you sign a contract which limits what can be changed, but they do change things every time your contract expires. You signed no such contract with ZOS. Get over yourselves.

Subtomik

genius self defeating argument you made there.

Let's see, you are saying these casual people taking in the sights have a desire to do the toughest stuff in the game so they can get better, but at the same time arguing that they want to take their merry time and take in the sights.

So now let's take 300 hours to hit v14, and explain to me how now 3000 hours of content is supposed to be anything but overwhelming for them: 10x the task? I'm supposed to believe that the person who theoretically won't complete the games content that will come with the champion system for over a decade is looking forward to hopping in SO and wiping or being a AP piñata in cyrodiil until they improve?

Got it lol.

Subtomik

I'm still wondering as well why people who are admittedly casuals, and have no desire to hit the cap etc, would be mad that people already ahead of them, are again.

They don't care now, what changes in the future? Why punish people who played this whole time and took pride in their characters progression?

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Except that the vet levels are not going away in this patch. A VR 14 will have more skills, more attribute points, better armor, and more knowledge of how end game works. But once VR 14 goes away an there are more people in craglorn because they won't have to go through gold and silver if they don't want to then finding groups for quests will be much easier. And you'll have more people to play with at endgame. But really you just wanna rage for the hell of it anyway.

at VR1 prior to finishing coldharbour my wife was able to "travel to player" to get to craglorn.

Guppet

Subtomik wrote: »

genius self defeating argument you made there.

Let's see, you are saying these casual people taking in the sights have a desire to do the toughest stuff in the game so they can get better, but at the same time arguing that they want to take their merry time and take in the sights.

So now let's take 300 hours to hit v14, and explain to me how now 3000 hours of content is supposed to be anything but overwhelming for them: 10x the task? I'm supposed to believe that the person who theoretically won't complete the games content that will come with the champion system for over a decade is looking forward to hopping in SO and wiping or being a AP piñata in cyrodiil until they improve?

Got it lol.

DSA is not 3000 hours of content, this whole game does not have 3000 hours of content. the champ system has over 3000 hours of progression, but do not confuse that with the game actually providing enough content to get there.

You were suggesting that casual players should not want to do things like DSA. When they only need to level to 50 (4 days) to do DSA rather than VR14 (12 days), then some of them probably will try that content (as they will now be the appropriate level, when previously they were not), which they are entitled to try.

So again, you insult rather than using any form of logic.

Subtomik

Guppet wrote: »

DSA is not 3000 hours of content, this whole game does not have 3000 hours of content. the champ system has over 3000 hours of progression, but do not confuse that with the game actually providing enough content to get there.

You were suggesting that casual players should not want to do things like DSA. When they only need to level to 50 (4 days) to do DSA rather than VR14 (12 days), then some of them probably will try that content (as they will now be the appropriate level, when previously they were not), which they are entitled to try.

So again, you insult rather than using any form of logic.

When did I suggest that they dont want to try it? They can WANT to try it all they want, but isnt the point of the game to have to earn the right to the content?

Last I checked you dont get to skip to the last boss of any game I have ever played because "reasons", how crappy would super mario have been if you loaded in at the final boss fight lol

the entitlement is astounding, people apparently dont want to "play" the game, they want to be given everything without work, and then "HA-HA" when they magically get put on footing with people who took the time to actually progress.

The good thing about this is, come a few months these folks will be left in the dust, and complaining for constant nerfs, and another boost when those who earned it dont invite them to the trial raid, or have them for lunch in cyrodiil.

Guppet

Subtomik wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

DSA is not 3000 hours of content, this whole game does not have 3000 hours of content. the champ system has over 3000 hours of progression, but do not confuse that with the game actually providing enough content to get there.

You were suggesting that casual players should not want to do things like DSA. When they only need to level to 50 (4 days) to do DSA rather than VR14 (12 days), then some of them probably will try that content (as they will now be the appropriate level, when previously they were not), which they are entitled to try.

So again, you insult rather than using any form of logic.

When did I suggest that they dont want to try it? They can WANT to try it all they want, but isnt the point of the game to have to earn the right to the content?

Last I checked you dont get to skip to the last boss of any game I have ever played because "reasons", how crappy would super mario have been if you loaded in at the final boss fight lol

the entitlement is astounding, people apparently dont want to "play" the game, they want to be given everything without work, and then "HA-HA" when they magically get put on footing with people who took the time to actually progress.

The good thing about this is, come a few months these folks will be left in the dust, and complaining for constant nerfs, and another boost when those who earned it dont invite them to the trial raid, or have them for lunch in cyrodiil.

Oh I see it now, you dislike the idea of casual players being able to access the same content as you, because they did not "earn" it.

You do realise the reason the VR system is being redone is to make it more accessible to those casual players? To remove the grind that they have not wanted to do (VR1-14).

A lot of people seem to be forgetting the whole reason VR is being scrapped. VR was a failure, it locked all endgame content behind the biggest levelling grind of any modern MMO. The champion system is to remedy that and hopefully bring back a lot of the players that quit due to VR levelling.

LegacyDM

KaneK899ub17_ESO wrote: »

olemanwinter wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Where does this using CP to unlock gear come from. Its not in anyway been said by the devs, unless some one wants to link a post saying that.

Pretty sure it was said in the latest ESO live.

But if not, then there is EVEN LESS difference as anyone will just buy the VR14 equivalent gear at lvl

So, either way, the gear won't make a difference!

Either the gear will be tied to CP, which you will then choose to spend on either stat-buffing gear or just plain stat-buffs (same thing, just semantics) or it's not tied to anything at all and it will be the same for everyone.

Logically, any way you slice it, gear is not going to be the difference, unless they just reduce the drop rate on elite gear to practically zero to make it rare for new max-level players.

Heck, maybe it can get so expensive we could get some gold sellers back in the game.

Then it really would be like a relaunch. lmao

I don't understand this line of thinking. You're mad because gear will be equivalent for lvl 50s? You do realize that VR14 gear is equivalent now, right? You might as well complain about that. In fact, there's barely a difference between like, V10 or V12 gear and V14 gear. A few points of armor and resources.

People who complain about "working" in a game are not playing for the right reasons. I've been VR14 since forever and a half ago, but I don't care one iota about this stupid ***. Know why? I got to VR14 because I wanted to be competitive. That's what I enjoy. And I'll still be competitive with 30 CP and lvl 50 instead. It's not a damn job, it's a game. Enjoy it.

Gear won't be unlocked via champ points. That's asinine.

Trusting any information as being 100% factual and effective before content is even released is the biggest mistake most of you make. It should be common knowledge by now that -everything- is subject to change. Good Lord, you'd think half of you have never played an MMO before.

Finally, you pay a subscription for access to the servers. You bought a license to access and use the client and an account code when you bought the box/digital download. You did not buy a game and ZOS can change said service at any time. This is pretty standard for every. Single. Service with a subscription in the world. From cell phone plans to internet plans. You have a right to discontinue service or change your plan to a different plan. With stuff like phones, you sign a contract which limits what can be changed, but they do change things every time your contract expires. You signed no such contract with ZOS. Get over yourselves.

No one likes getting flat out lied to. If your ok with getting lied to and accept ZOS's terms that's your prerogative. However, some of us who actually worked hard, based off of false pretense want are voices heard. If ZOS had half a brain they would find a solution that compensates all players rather than giving those VR 14s that completed cadwells the index finger.

If Apple made a difinitive statement saying their next iPhone would have xyz capability and it was released without it, and millions of people saved their money and waited in line for it, only to find out after they bought it and it did not have xyz. Do you think that's acceptable? What do you think would happen to Apple stock and reputation?

Your right, things are subject to change but lying to your customers is poor business practice.

Subtomik

Guppet wrote: »

Oh I see it now, you dislike the idea of casual players being able to access the same content as you, because they did not "earn" it.

You do realise the reason the VR system is being redone is to make it more accessible to those casual players? To remove the grind that they have not wanted to do (VR1-14).

A lot of people seem to be forgetting the whole reason VR is being scrapped. VR was a failure, it locked all endgame content behind the biggest levelling grind of any modern MMO. The champion system is to remedy that and hopefully bring back a lot of the players that quit due to VR levelling.

After reading your sig it makes sense.

You are angry that everyone in this game wasnt given a carbon copy character and access to all the same goodies.

I would love to hear your argument regarding as to why players should get things without "earning" it.

The VR14 grind was cake. If you are "grinding" v14 it shouldnt have been hard at all, you cant seem to make up your mind as to whether casuals are grinding or taking their sweet time to take in the scenery.

So according to you, My 25+million AP points was "practice" and being emp on the top few times "practice"

same with vet DSA, Trials, ETC.

And now the game is really starting? its ok you werent trying because this wasnt the actual game, it only starts when you say its ready to start?

Oh well, seems the only way 1.6 could be a complete failure is if there is nothing to separate someone who has "earned" their titles and ranks from those who havent.


PS: you better avoid the justice system like the plague.

Guppet

Subtomik wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Oh I see it now, you dislike the idea of casual players being able to access the same content as you, because they did not "earn" it.

You do realise the reason the VR system is being redone is to make it more accessible to those casual players? To remove the grind that they have not wanted to do (VR1-14).

A lot of people seem to be forgetting the whole reason VR is being scrapped. VR was a failure, it locked all endgame content behind the biggest levelling grind of any modern MMO. The champion system is to remedy that and hopefully bring back a lot of the players that quit due to VR levelling.

After reading your sig it makes sense.

You are angry that everyone in this game wasnt given a carbon copy character and access to all the same goodies.

I would love to hear your argument regarding as to why players should get things without "earning" it.

The VR14 grind was cake. If you are "grinding" v14 it shouldnt have been hard at all, you cant seem to make up your mind as to whether casuals are grinding or taking their sweet time to take in the scenery.

So according to you, My 25+million AP points was "practice" and being emp on the top few times "practice"

same with vet DSA, Trials, ETC.

And now the game is really starting? its ok you werent trying because this wasnt the actual game, it only starts when you say its ready to start?

Oh well, seems the only way 1.6 could be a complete failure is if there is nothing to separate someone who has "earned" their titles and ranks from those who havent.


PS: you better avoid the justice system like the plague.

Why should I avoid the justice system? Is that content exclusive for you too?

Your still clearly in denial as to why VR is being removed. Casual players pay the bills in MMO's these days, they are the priority.

Also where did I say casuals should grind? You do know your making stuff up right?