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The Problem of Chairs

MornaBaine
MornaBaine
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Everywhere you go in Tamriel there are chairs and benches all over the place. BUT...you can't sit on them. And they've stated that it would simply be too much trouble to do the coding necessary to LET our characters sit on them. This seems to be a problem that besets a lot of games and darned if I can figure out why since there are also games that HAVE figured it out and made it possible. But since ZOS has made it clear that they are NOT going to be one of those games, I have a suggestion.

1. MORE /sitchair emotes. We have one so give us AT LEAST 5 more! Same chair, different sitting positions. Simple. I'd also really like to see /sitchairdrink and /sitchaireat emotes and yes, at least 2 or 3 different ones of those as well.

2. REMOVE at least HALF of the non-usable chairs throughout the world, especially those in the inns and taverns and those pulled up to tables. It's especially irritating having them at the bars where space is already at a premium because you have NPCs constantly coming up to the bar and knocking you out of the way! LOL

3. Lastly, PLEASE go to the trouble to make AT LEAST the thrones in all the castles sittable. This would be a huge boon to roleplayers and CAN be done. It would be the icing on the cake.
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

  • AshySamurai
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    2. REMOVE at least HALF of the non-usable chairs throughout the world, especially those in the inns and taverns and those pulled up to tables. It's especially irritating having them at the bars where space is already at a premium because you have NPCs constantly coming up to the bar and knocking you out of the way! LOL

    It would be extremely hard. ZOS already said that they need to do stuff like this manualy.
    Make sweetrolls, not nerfs!
  • Sindala
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    MornaBaine wrote: »
    It's especially irritating having them at the bars where space is already at a premium because you have NPCs constantly coming up to the bar and knocking you out of the way! LOL

    Ohhh, I can see some real nice bar brawls come the justice system.
    That's the last time that drunk Nord is gonna knock my ale out of my hand. >:)
    Edited by Sindala on December 28, 2014 12:54PM
    Being First is not the prize, it just mean's everyone can stab you in the back.
  • MornaBaine
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    2. REMOVE at least HALF of the non-usable chairs throughout the world, especially those in the inns and taverns and those pulled up to tables. It's especially irritating having them at the bars where space is already at a premium because you have NPCs constantly coming up to the bar and knocking you out of the way! LOL

    It would be extremely hard. ZOS already said that they need to do stuff like this manualy.

    True but I'm not opposed to them doing it in increments over time. Each patch, a few more useless chairs go away. They start with the inns and taverns.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

  • Huggernaut
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    Honestly think we have bigger problems atm than being able to sit in chairs.
  • MornaBaine
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    Huggernaut wrote: »
    Honestly think we have bigger problems atm than being able to sit in chairs.

    This may be true. But I'm getting very tired of these "small" issues getting pushed off while ZOS continues to build the game they couldn't finish in time for launch. Immersion matters.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

  • AshySamurai
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    MornaBaine wrote: »
    2. REMOVE at least HALF of the non-usable chairs throughout the world, especially those in the inns and taverns and those pulled up to tables. It's especially irritating having them at the bars where space is already at a premium because you have NPCs constantly coming up to the bar and knocking you out of the way! LOL

    It would be extremely hard. ZOS already said that they need to do stuff like this manualy.

    True but I'm not opposed to them doing it in increments over time. Each patch, a few more useless chairs go away. They start with the inns and taverns.

    Well, yes. Correct me, but they already said that they reworking all this stuff (I belive it was eso live 7). Not sure about functional chairs.
    Huggernaut wrote: »
    Honestly think we have bigger problems atm than being able to sit in chairs.

    Yep. All we need now is to whine about 30CP or ult generation.
    Make sweetrolls, not nerfs!
  • MornaBaine
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    MornaBaine wrote: »
    2. REMOVE at least HALF of the non-usable chairs throughout the world, especially those in the inns and taverns and those pulled up to tables. It's especially irritating having them at the bars where space is already at a premium because you have NPCs constantly coming up to the bar and knocking you out of the way! LOL

    It would be extremely hard. ZOS already said that they need to do stuff like this manualy.

    True but I'm not opposed to them doing it in increments over time. Each patch, a few more useless chairs go away. They start with the inns and taverns.

    Well, yes. Correct me, but they already said that they reworking all this stuff (I belive it was eso live 7). Not sure about functional chairs.
    Huggernaut wrote: »
    Honestly think we have bigger problems atm than being able to sit in chairs.

    Yep. All we need now is to whine about 30CP or ult generation.

    Reworking what stuff? They've said it would be too much trouble to do the coding to make chairs sittable and that it's not on any planned update.

    As to the CP points... it DOES sound really unfair to those who have put in the time and effort to have multiple high level Vet characters. I'm hoping ZOS will re-think it and/or explain it better so that it shows those players are somehow NOT getting the shaft.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

  • TheShadowScout
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    Personally I would prefer for them to figure out interactable environment objects rather then remove empty chairs.
    Because I much rather have chairs my character can sit it, and beds my character can sleep in, stocks my character can be "locked in" and all the other goodies that could make roleplaying better... but hey, that's just me.
  • AshySamurai
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    Reworking what stuff? They've said it would be too much trouble to do the coding to make chairs sittable and that it's not on any planned update.

    Really? Thanks. Well, I was right, ZOS talked about it not so long ago.

    As to the CP points... it DOES sound really unfair to those who have put in the time and effort to have multiple high level Vet characters. I'm hoping ZOS will re-think it and/or explain it better so that it shows those players are somehow NOT getting the shaft.

    This topic not about CP ^^
    Make sweetrolls, not nerfs!
  • Gidorick
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    MornaBaine wrote: »
    2. REMOVE at least HALF of the non-usable chairs throughout the world, especially those in the inns and taverns and those pulled up to tables. It's especially irritating having them at the bars where space is already at a premium because you have NPCs constantly coming up to the bar and knocking you out of the way! LOL

    It would be extremely hard. ZOS already said that they need to do stuff like this manualy.

    True but I'm not opposed to them doing it in increments over time. Each patch, a few more useless chairs go away. They start with the inns and taverns.

    THIS!

    There are many environmental things that can be fixed over time that don't have to be a fell swoop of a change. I said the same thing about adding clutter in a recent thread of mine.

    "It doesn't have to be a huge undertaking. Maybe give each content designer the task of adding clutter to one area each month. They could spend a few hours on it throughout the month and it wouldn't be a burden. Eventually we would start to see these areas fill up and these once lifeless, empty areas can become a rich part of their respective cities."

    forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/144171/so-empty

    The whole unsitable chair issue is a small issue but, it points to a much larger issue.

    The fact that they didn't think we would WANT to sit in those chairs shows a basic misunderstanding of the type of player the average Elder Scrolls player is. It's hard for me to believe that not one game designer said during the planning and designing stages "hey... should we allow them to sit in these chairs that we're placing everywhere?". They have essentially doubled their work by NOT just making them sit-able in the first place. Of course, they could have had the DLC mindset of holding back a feature that should have been in the game to release it later with a "ta-da".
    Edited by Gidorick on December 28, 2014 3:11PM
    What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
    That's right... Horse.
    Click HERE to discuss.

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  • Gidorick
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    Personally I would prefer for them to figure out interactable environment objects rather then remove empty chairs.
    Because I much rather have chairs my character can sit it, and beds my character can sleep in, stocks my character can be "locked in" and all the other goodies that could make roleplaying better... but hey, that's just me.

    They need an "Environment Team" that is dedicated to cluttering the environment, replacing non-interactive elements with interactive elements, and generally making the world feel more "lived in".

    ESO's Tamriel is a wonderful environment but there really needs to be some ongoing work toward making it better and adding elements throughout the existing world, not just creating new areas.
    Edited by Gidorick on December 28, 2014 3:20PM
    What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
    That's right... Horse.
    Click HERE to discuss.

    Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!
  • MornaBaine
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    Gidorick wrote: »
    Personally I would prefer for them to figure out interactable environment objects rather then remove empty chairs.
    Because I much rather have chairs my character can sit it, and beds my character can sleep in, stocks my character can be "locked in" and all the other goodies that could make roleplaying better... but hey, that's just me.

    They need an "Environment Team" that is dedicated to cluttering the environment, replacing non-interactive elements with interactive elements, and generally making the world feel more "lived in".

    ESO's Tamriel is a wonderful environment but there really needs to be some ongoing work toward making it better and adding elements throughout the existing world, not just creating new areas.

    So all of this! I also realllly want to see interactive shrines to the various gods as well! And merchants that sell really odd things that are really only useful for immersion/roleplaying.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

  • AlexDougherty
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    One of trhe problems with seatable chairs is that they have to accomodate Khajiit and Argonians, who's tails mustn't jam or get stuck.

    This means they would have to ensure that it works for each type of chair, and then put those chairs in manually. Bigger job than it sounds.
    People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
    Wizard's first rule
    Passion rules reason
    Wizard's third rule
    Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
    Wizard's fifth rule
    Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
    Wizard's tenth rule
  • Morana
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    I've requested several times since beta to have a /sitchair command that doesn't actually include a chair. It's how the Fallen Earth team got away with not having functional chairs. It wasn't perfect depending on the height of the seat, sometimes you hovered or had your but several inches into it, but you could still "sit" on most every chair and bench.

    It didn't solve the problem of having the chair too close to the table to allow a body to fit in there, but it's a start.
  • MornaBaine
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    One of trhe problems with seatable chairs is that they have to accomodate Khajiit and Argonians, who's tails mustn't jam or get stuck.

    This means they would have to ensure that it works for each type of chair, and then put those chairs in manually. Bigger job than it sounds.

    Which is exactly why they should have included this (sittable chairs) in the coding in the first place. Now they've made it "impossible" (read "too much trouble) to go back and fix it at this point. So we're left looking for semi-reasonable alternatives that they MIGHT be willing to actually do.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

  • MornaBaine
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    Morana wrote: »
    I've requested several times since beta to have a /sitchair command that doesn't actually include a chair. It's how the Fallen Earth team got away with not having functional chairs. It wasn't perfect depending on the height of the seat, sometimes you hovered or had your but several inches into it, but you could still "sit" on most every chair and bench.

    It didn't solve the problem of having the chair too close to the table to allow a body to fit in there, but it's a start.

    I actually considered adding just this very thing to the OP. But I don't want to let them off the hook quite THAT easily. But if they'd be willing to do this IN ADDITION TO the additional /sitchair emotes I'd be happy to see it included.

    I also really want a crosslegged/lotus/meditation regular sitting position. It'd be kinda fun if that one left us floating a few inches off the ground. LOL
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

  • AlexDougherty
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    MornaBaine wrote: »
    One of trhe problems with seatable chairs is that they have to accomodate Khajiit and Argonians, who's tails mustn't jam or get stuck.

    This means they would have to ensure that it works for each type of chair, and then put those chairs in manually. Bigger job than it sounds.

    Which is exactly why they should have included this (sittable chairs) in the coding in the first place. Now they've made it "impossible" (read "too much trouble) to go back and fix it at this point. So we're left looking for semi-reasonable alternatives that they MIGHT be willing to actually do.

    Best I can do is make a /Chair emote or three, which would see the character picking a chair out of thin air and sitting on it. It might look a bit odd, but should work for Roleplay, and they could have several styles of chairs (no thrones though)
    People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
    Wizard's first rule
    Passion rules reason
    Wizard's third rule
    Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
    Wizard's fifth rule
    Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
    Wizard's tenth rule
  • MornaBaine
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    MornaBaine wrote: »
    One of trhe problems with seatable chairs is that they have to accomodate Khajiit and Argonians, who's tails mustn't jam or get stuck.

    This means they would have to ensure that it works for each type of chair, and then put those chairs in manually. Bigger job than it sounds.

    Which is exactly why they should have included this (sittable chairs) in the coding in the first place. Now they've made it "impossible" (read "too much trouble) to go back and fix it at this point. So we're left looking for semi-reasonable alternatives that they MIGHT be willing to actually do.

    Best I can do is make a /Chair emote or three, which would see the character picking a chair out of thin air and sitting on it. It might look a bit odd, but should work for Roleplay, and they could have several styles of chairs (no thrones though)

    Which is exactly what I've asked for. We need more /sitchair emotes so everyone isn't sitting in the exact same awkward position all the time.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

  • AshySamurai
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    I would like to see combined emotes like sit on chair and eat/drink/etc. Or sit on floor and play on drum.
    Make sweetrolls, not nerfs!
  • MornaBaine
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    I was just at the inn in Hoarfrost Downs in Rivenspire roleplaying with a guildie today and we discovered that there is not a single table in the downstairs area where you can use the /sitchair emote to sit at any of the tables together (unless you are willing to sit at opposite ends of the long tables) BECAUSE OF ALL THE USELESS CHAIRS CRAMMED UP TO EACH TABLE! C'mon ZOS, this is just dumb. Fix it. At least START fixing it!
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

  • ZOS_EdLynch
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    MornaBaine wrote: »
    Everywhere you go in Tamriel there are chairs and benches all over the place. BUT...you can't sit on them. And they've stated that it would simply be too much trouble to do the coding necessary to LET our characters sit on them. This seems to be a problem that besets a lot of games and darned if I can figure out why since there are also games that HAVE figured it out and made it possible. But since ZOS has made it clear that they are NOT going to be one of those games, I have a suggestion.

    Thank you for the suggestions, but I do want to clear up a couple things. Nothing that players want is "too much trouble" or will never happen. I believe what Gina was trying to convey in the Live segment was that it is a lot of work that requires client and server programmers, animators, world-builders, audio, etc. and a not insignificant amount of time to implement properly. That's just a fact but in no way should imply that it will never happen. In fact, it's something that I personally would very much like to see. We have and will continue to make these kinds of sweeping, global changes -such as the justice system- it's just a matter of prioritizing all of those resources and balancing that with other efforts that require those resources.

    So, keep sending your /feedback and know that just because a feature has not yet been implemented doesn't mean it never will be, we just need to make sure all of those artists and engineers are being utilized in the most efficient and impactful ways possible.

    In the meantime, we will look into some additional variety via the emote system and you guys please keep the feedback coming.
    Ed Lynch
    Lead Animator
    ZeniMax Online Studios
  • MornaBaine
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    MornaBaine wrote: »
    Everywhere you go in Tamriel there are chairs and benches all over the place. BUT...you can't sit on them. And they've stated that it would simply be too much trouble to do the coding necessary to LET our characters sit on them. This seems to be a problem that besets a lot of games and darned if I can figure out why since there are also games that HAVE figured it out and made it possible. But since ZOS has made it clear that they are NOT going to be one of those games, I have a suggestion.

    Thank you for the suggestions, but I do want to clear up a couple things. Nothing that players want is "too much trouble" or will never happen. I believe what Gina was trying to convey in the Live segment was that it is a lot of work that requires client and server programmers, animators, world-builders, audio, etc. and a not insignificant amount of time to implement properly. That's just a fact but in no way should imply that it will never happen. In fact, it's something that I personally would very much like to see. We have and will continue to make these kinds of sweeping, global changes -such as the justice system- it's just a matter of prioritizing all of those resources and balancing that with other efforts that require those resources.

    So, keep sending your /feedback and know that just because a feature has not yet been implemented doesn't mean it never will be, we just need to make sure all of those artists and engineers are being utilized in the most efficient and impactful ways possible.

    In the meantime, we will look into some additional variety via the emote system and you guys please keep the feedback coming.

    I have absolutely no idea how I missed your response but thank you so much for replying to this thread ZOS_EdLynch ! It does seem that with so many "sweeping, global changes" and additions such as the Justice System, Champion System, Spellcrafting, Wrothgar, Imperial City and who knows what else you have in the works that "small" things like this are doomed to be ignored. And what we DO hear tends to reinforce that perception.

    However, there IS something you could do that might help in the interim (however long that might be) while you consider the issue of "sittable" chairs.
    1. REMOVE a lot of the chairs in places like Inns and Taverns. This will leave us room to use the /sitchair emote at tables and the like. ESPECIALLY remove the chairs that are near bars, blocking access.
    2. If at all possible, change the pathing of NPCs so that they are no longer walking into desirable high traffic areas like in front of fireplaces and up to bars. Remove any NPCs that perpetually stand at bars or near fireplaces.
    3. In future, if you create a place that it looks like PLAYERS might like to gather there, don't stick an NPC in the middle of it.

    Thank you.

    Oh and on the subject of emotes... there's an NPC upstairs in the Cloudy Dregs in Wayrest who appears to be sharpening his swords. Let us have that as an emote please.
    Edited by MornaBaine on January 19, 2015 9:28PM
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

  • Rev Rielle
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    Personally I would prefer for them to figure out interactable environment objects rather then remove empty chairs.
    Because I much rather have chairs my character can sit it, and beds my character can sleep in, stocks my character can be "locked in" and all the other goodies that could make roleplaying better... but hey, that's just me.

    I agree. Lord of the Rings Online, seemed to have a fairly good compromise in this regard, at least with chairs. Perhaps ESO development could look at that and get some inspiration.

    It would be nice - Instead of them saying it's too hard, and not really trying - it would be really great if development thought outside-the-square and came up with a novel solution, both in relation to ESO and the wider MMO genre. If there's a will there's a way, and there, almost always there is the latter with the former.
    If you can be anything, be kind.
  • TheShadowScout
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    Someday... I can see how they are currently busy getting champion system and justice system on track, considering how many pieces there will be in those (from game mechanics, bugs to be squashed, thieves guild & dark brotherhood storyline, etc...)

    Still, it is pleasing to have a official response giving us hope for "the future". Since I think a good deal of different interactable furniture might make the game more interesting for roleplayers, and even other players might enjoy taking advantage of things like that every once in a while between PvP battles and endgame dungeon runs... ;)

    Also, count another vote for a "sharpening weapons" emote! :)
  • Jaxsun
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    MornaBaine wrote: »
    Everywhere you go in Tamriel there are chairs and benches all over the place. BUT...you can't sit on them. And they've stated that it would simply be too much trouble to do the coding necessary to LET our characters sit on them. This seems to be a problem that besets a lot of games and darned if I can figure out why since there are also games that HAVE figured it out and made it possible. But since ZOS has made it clear that they are NOT going to be one of those games, I have a suggestion.

    1. MORE /sitchair emotes. We have one so give us AT LEAST 5 more! Same chair, different sitting positions. Simple. I'd also really like to see /sitchairdrink and /sitchaireat emotes and yes, at least 2 or 3 different ones of those as well.

    2. REMOVE at least HALF of the non-usable chairs throughout the world, especially those in the inns and taverns and those pulled up to tables. It's especially irritating having them at the bars where space is already at a premium because you have NPCs constantly coming up to the bar and knocking you out of the way! LOL

    3. Lastly, PLEASE go to the trouble to make AT LEAST the thrones in all the castles sittable. This would be a huge boon to roleplayers and CAN be done. It would be the icing on the cake.

    SWG allowed you to sit on chairs and couches etc. Another reason that game is still the best evaaaah!!
  • MornaBaine
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    Jaxsun wrote: »
    MornaBaine wrote: »
    Everywhere you go in Tamriel there are chairs and benches all over the place. BUT...you can't sit on them. And they've stated that it would simply be too much trouble to do the coding necessary to LET our characters sit on them. This seems to be a problem that besets a lot of games and darned if I can figure out why since there are also games that HAVE figured it out and made it possible. But since ZOS has made it clear that they are NOT going to be one of those games, I have a suggestion.

    1. MORE /sitchair emotes. We have one so give us AT LEAST 5 more! Same chair, different sitting positions. Simple. I'd also really like to see /sitchairdrink and /sitchaireat emotes and yes, at least 2 or 3 different ones of those as well.

    2. REMOVE at least HALF of the non-usable chairs throughout the world, especially those in the inns and taverns and those pulled up to tables. It's especially irritating having them at the bars where space is already at a premium because you have NPCs constantly coming up to the bar and knocking you out of the way! LOL

    3. Lastly, PLEASE go to the trouble to make AT LEAST the thrones in all the castles sittable. This would be a huge boon to roleplayers and CAN be done. It would be the icing on the cake.

    SWG allowed you to sit on chairs and couches etc. Another reason that game is still the best evaaaah!!

    If they would bring THAT game back with updated graphics I might never play anything else. It's what I was HOPING ESO would be. Sadly, it seems no one is interested in actually making the game I really want to play. :neutral_face:
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

  • Gidorick
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    MornaBaine wrote: »
    If they would bring THAT game back with updated graphics I might never play anything else. It's what I was HOPING ESO would be. Sadly, it seems no one is interested in actually making the game I really want to play. :neutral_face:

    I feel your pain here. I don't think ESO will ever be the game I was hoping it would be either.
    What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
    That's right... Horse.
    Click HERE to discuss.

    Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!
  • Haytham_Of_Ishura
    +1 this. Although instead of giving us more /sitchair emotes, it would be better to just let us be able to sit in the chairs themselves or have more /sit emotes that'll allow us to at least look like we're using them.

    ESO is such a beautiful game and I think the real issue is just our inability to really interact on this level. Nothing beats walking into a Tavern or Inn and sitting on a large dining table and enjoying some fictional ale with friends.
    Haytham of Ishura, Son of Sufyan, House Bayan
    Lord of the Noble House Ishura - {ISHURA} Heavy-RP Guild
    ESO North America Server
    http://realmofishura.com
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