What will be the difference between VR1 and VR14, both with 30 CPs?

xaraan · December 2014

Guppet wrote: »

The VR14 should have vastly more skills. My main had 290 odd, my VR2 has 120. Also the VR14 should be more experienced and skillfull as a player. If those are not enough of an advantage, there's no hope for the VR14 anyway.

This only holds up initially. Once the system is out and you start earning XP, if you are primarily one that does quests - a V14 has little to no quests to do solo left, a v1 has 10+ zones of pretty rewarding (xp wise) main quest content ahead of them and will earn more champ points much faster.

If they only give 30 points and no more later when vet system is taken out, then questers will be the ones mostly screwed over by this (it won't really slow down grinders or pvpers).

AlnilamE · December 2014

xaraan wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Well the vr14 will have more attribute points, even more skill points because of all the extra skyshards and quests.
The VR14 will have better gear, crafted VR14 set of good quality as an minimum, an mixture of multiple dropped set at its best.

In the case of players that earn xp primarily through questing: And when the V1 gets to V14, they will have earned 14m xp and the champ points that go along with it, where that V14 probably will not have had access to earn points that fast since he is done questing. So the player at v14 now will soon enough fall behind in earning points, just like players that had the 'chieves in vet dungeons fell behind the noobs in undaunted leveling after 1.5.

I don't think the VR14 player will fall behind because once the Vet Ranks go away, they will be compensated with CP, and they will have been earning additional CP as well.

Right now, I find the fastest way to level is to help people though the Craglorn quests and delves. It's also a lot of fun. I was finishing the questline myself and I got from V11 to V12 in 8 days, which is a record for me, and 8 days after that, I'm almost V13.

So my current favourite activity (other than finding treasure maps) is kidnapping unsuspecting guildies who haven't done the quests and helping them get through them.

I've seen some mention this, and if so, then great.

But I doubt it considering that will give extra gain to players that hit those vet levels after 1.6 and get champ points as they gained xp and then also for vet level conversion. Unless ZoS 'snapshots' everyone's levels at 1.6 and then only compensates those players at whatever vet level they had at 1.6. That's more work though and I doubt it.

That is a good point. I wonder if toons will level past V1 after Update 6 and only get Champion Points instead? That would be one way of dealing with it.

I have gone about the game in a very organic way and while I'm almost v13 now, I still have to finish about 30% of the quests in Silver and actually go through gold.

(If we got XP for fishing, though, I'be V14 by now!)

But I see how it would be hard for someone who got to V14 by completing all the content to get more XP that way. I do hope they add some more quests.

How are you spending your time in game these days?

Woolenthreads · December 2014

I think I'm more concerned about having multiple characters over VR1. The Champion System is account wide so if you have say a VR2 character and a VR7 character you might get the CP for only the highest leveled character giving a very distinct advantage in the months following the change to the players who develop characters to those levels afterwards.

I'm not particularly concerned for myself though since I only just got 1 out of 16 characters to VR1. It's just that now I don't see a reason to get my NA L46 Sorcerer to VR1 just yet as the NA Templar is already there.

pmn100b16_ESO · December 2014

Gyudan wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Oh I found it,One can eat awesome VR5 Sweetrolls the other can't.We win.

Actually we're going to eat tacos now.

I'm not sure if this will be loremaster-approved.

Oh yeah forgot all our stats are going x10 as well

xaraan · December 2014

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Oh I found it,One can eat awesome VR5 Sweetrolls the other can't.We win.

Actually we're going to eat tacos now.

I'm not sure if this will be loremaster-approved.

Oh yeah forgot all our stats are going x10 as well

And those recipes are v10 versions or whatever --actually, when you get rid of the x10, give the same stats (virtually) as our v5 food now. So essentially they are nerfing all our existing purple food, not necessarily giving us more powerful food vs what we have now.

Lancillotto · December 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

If both of them have 30 CPs, will both of them be able to do the same content? If not, what will make the difference between them?

Since the champion system is supposed to replace the Veteran System, it will be fair to assume that they will be the same when they abolish the Veteran system.

and that is scary...

AoEnwyr · December 2014

PBpsy wrote: »

Oh I found it,One can eat awesome VR5 Sweetrolls the other can't.We win.

Barely enough. I've seriously been thinking about cancelling my sub due to the lack of dessert options available. Where are my boiled cream treats or long taffy treats? I'm tired of honey pudding. They need to overhaul the sweets system and implement additional inventory handling to accommodate this.

SRIBES · December 2014

PBpsy wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Oh I found it,One can eat awesome VR5 Sweetrolls the other can't.We win.

Actually we're going to eat tacos now.

I'm not sure if this will be loremaster-approved.

UNSUBED!!!!!

They can take our CPs,They can take our warlock sets, they can take our ultimates. But how dare steal our freaking sweetrolls.NEVER!!!111!!!!

Just had to say that I agree with this!!! SWEETROLLS > LIFE

/MyUsername

Nihil · December 2014

xaraan wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Oh I found it,One can eat awesome VR5 Sweetrolls the other can't.We win.

Actually we're going to eat tacos now.

I'm not sure if this will be loremaster-approved.

Oh yeah forgot all our stats are going x10 as well

And those recipes are v10 versions or whatever --actually, when you get rid of the x10, give the same stats (virtually) as our v5 food now. So essentially they are nerfing all our existing purple food, not necessarily giving us more powerful food vs what we have now.

They did say in the provisioning revamp thread a while ago that they would have to rebalance the food if they allow drinks and food to be used simultaneously. And they are also adjusting other numbers ( I believe I read in the roads ahead talking about it) for armor too. Two cents.

AlexDougherty · December 2014

Lancillotto wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

If both of them have 30 CPs, will both of them be able to do the same content? If not, what will make the difference between them?

Since the champion system is supposed to replace the Veteran System, it will be fair to assume that they will be the same when they abolish the Veteran system.

and that is scary...

Yeah.

AlexDougherty · December 2014

zaria wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

If both of them have 30 CPs, will both of them be able to do the same content? If not, what will make the difference between them?

Since the champion system is supposed to replace the Veteran System, it will be fair to assume that they will be the same when they abolish the Veteran system.

When both are in place, the Veteran14 character will have more attributes and skill points than the VR1 character.

It would also be fair to assume that in order to balance everyone, they will have to refund all skill and attribute points. Otherwise those who got to VR14 will have an unbeatable advantage.

Well If A is VR1 just after main quest and B is VR14 and have collected all the skyshards and skill points the VR14 will have more than twice the number of skill points, the VR1 has to earn them doing quests and finding the shards trough silver and gold even if they are renamed.
B will also have much better gear as he has run dungeons and raids.

B will also have much more CP, that is unless A is an alt to B and they have the same number, in this case leveling A will earn B CP too.

IF A and B are diferent players and play as much A will never catch up with B however the difference will decrease as the CP get into diminishing return and A get better gear.

Well yes, if you assume they belong to different accounts then they will have different Champion Points. If they belong to accounts that both have VR14 characters, they will be the same (or near enough).

And as I said, it's safe to assume that when they abolish the veteran system, they will have to reset all the skill and attribute points.

Guppet · December 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

If both of them have 30 CPs, will both of them be able to do the same content? If not, what will make the difference between them?

Since the champion system is supposed to replace the Veteran System, it will be fair to assume that they will be the same when they abolish the Veteran system.

When both are in place, the Veteran14 character will have more attributes and skill points than the VR1 character.

It would also be fair to assume that in order to balance everyone, they will have to refund all skill and attribute points. Otherwise those who got to VR14 will have an unbeatable advantage.

Well If A is VR1 just after main quest and B is VR14 and have collected all the skyshards and skill points the VR14 will have more than twice the number of skill points, the VR1 has to earn them doing quests and finding the shards trough silver and gold even if they are renamed.
B will also have much better gear as he has run dungeons and raids.

B will also have much more CP, that is unless A is an alt to B and they have the same number, in this case leveling A will earn B CP too.

IF A and B are diferent players and play as much A will never catch up with B however the difference will decrease as the CP get into diminishing return and A get better gear.

Well yes, if you assume they belong to different accounts then they will have different Champion Points. If they belong to accounts that both have VR14 characters, they will be the same (or near enough).

And as I said, it's safe to assume that when they abolish the veteran system, they will have to reset all the skill and attribute points.

They may allow you a respec of the skills and attribute points for free, but they would not take them all away, that's just a huge assumption, one coming from a very odd place at that. Its in no way safe to assume that at all.

AlexDougherty · December 2014

Guppet wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

If both of them have 30 CPs, will both of them be able to do the same content? If not, what will make the difference between them?

Since the champion system is supposed to replace the Veteran System, it will be fair to assume that they will be the same when they abolish the Veteran system.

When both are in place, the Veteran14 character will have more attributes and skill points than the VR1 character.

It would also be fair to assume that in order to balance everyone, they will have to refund all skill and attribute points. Otherwise those who got to VR14 will have an unbeatable advantage.

Well If A is VR1 just after main quest and B is VR14 and have collected all the skyshards and skill points the VR14 will have more than twice the number of skill points, the VR1 has to earn them doing quests and finding the shards trough silver and gold even if they are renamed.
B will also have much better gear as he has run dungeons and raids.

B will also have much more CP, that is unless A is an alt to B and they have the same number, in this case leveling A will earn B CP too.

IF A and B are diferent players and play as much A will never catch up with B however the difference will decrease as the CP get into diminishing return and A get better gear.

Well yes, if you assume they belong to different accounts then they will have different Champion Points. If they belong to accounts that both have VR14 characters, they will be the same (or near enough).

And as I said, it's safe to assume that when they abolish the veteran system, they will have to reset all the skill and attribute points.

They may allow you a respec of the skills and attribute points for free, but they would not take them all away, that's just a huge assumption, one coming from a very odd place at that. Its in no way safe to assume that at all.

It is fairly safe. Let me show you my logic.

If you have a VR14 character and you don't remove the attributes and 13 extra skill points, then when new people get to that stage (which will just be level 50), they will be out attributed (and out skillpointed, but skill points are the lesser worry), meaning in a fair fight they will loose nearly every time.

This would mean people who haven't gotten their characters to VR14 before the Veteran levels disappear wpuld be terminally disadvantaged, which in turn would lead to them leaving (after all they can't ever make up those extra attributes, so can't even the playing field)

Now I'm pretty sure ZOS will spot this and have to rectify it.

Guppet · December 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

If both of them have 30 CPs, will both of them be able to do the same content? If not, what will make the difference between them?

Since the champion system is supposed to replace the Veteran System, it will be fair to assume that they will be the same when they abolish the Veteran system.

When both are in place, the Veteran14 character will have more attributes and skill points than the VR1 character.

It would also be fair to assume that in order to balance everyone, they will have to refund all skill and attribute points. Otherwise those who got to VR14 will have an unbeatable advantage.

Well If A is VR1 just after main quest and B is VR14 and have collected all the skyshards and skill points the VR14 will have more than twice the number of skill points, the VR1 has to earn them doing quests and finding the shards trough silver and gold even if they are renamed.
B will also have much better gear as he has run dungeons and raids.

B will also have much more CP, that is unless A is an alt to B and they have the same number, in this case leveling A will earn B CP too.

IF A and B are diferent players and play as much A will never catch up with B however the difference will decrease as the CP get into diminishing return and A get better gear.

Well yes, if you assume they belong to different accounts then they will have different Champion Points. If they belong to accounts that both have VR14 characters, they will be the same (or near enough).

And as I said, it's safe to assume that when they abolish the veteran system, they will have to reset all the skill and attribute points.

They may allow you a respec of the skills and attribute points for free, but they would not take them all away, that's just a huge assumption, one coming from a very odd place at that. Its in no way safe to assume that at all.

It is fairly safe. Let me show you my logic.

If you have a VR14 character and you don't remove the attributes and 13 extra skill points, then when new people get to that stage (which will just be level 50), they will be out attributed (and out skillpointed, but skill points are the lesser worry), meaning in a fair fight they will loose nearly every time.

This would mean people who haven't gotten their characters to VR14 before the Veteran levels disappear wpuld be terminally disadvantaged, which in turn would lead to them leaving (after all they can't ever make up those extra attributes, so can't even the playing field)

Now I'm pretty sure ZOS will spot this and have to rectify it.

Maybe for the 13 attribute points, as there is no other way to get them. For the skills, not a chance in hell, as there are so many ways to get them.

I'm 100% confident that my skills will not be taken away. Feel free to fear for yours all you like. Heck if they were, I would get over it though.

AlexDougherty · December 2014

Guppet wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

If both of them have 30 CPs, will both of them be able to do the same content? If not, what will make the difference between them?

Since the champion system is supposed to replace the Veteran System, it will be fair to assume that they will be the same when they abolish the Veteran system.

When both are in place, the Veteran14 character will have more attributes and skill points than the VR1 character.

It would also be fair to assume that in order to balance everyone, they will have to refund all skill and attribute points. Otherwise those who got to VR14 will have an unbeatable advantage.

Well If A is VR1 just after main quest and B is VR14 and have collected all the skyshards and skill points the VR14 will have more than twice the number of skill points, the VR1 has to earn them doing quests and finding the shards trough silver and gold even if they are renamed.
B will also have much better gear as he has run dungeons and raids.

B will also have much more CP, that is unless A is an alt to B and they have the same number, in this case leveling A will earn B CP too.

IF A and B are diferent players and play as much A will never catch up with B however the difference will decrease as the CP get into diminishing return and A get better gear.

Well yes, if you assume they belong to different accounts then they will have different Champion Points. If they belong to accounts that both have VR14 characters, they will be the same (or near enough).

And as I said, it's safe to assume that when they abolish the veteran system, they will have to reset all the skill and attribute points.

They may allow you a respec of the skills and attribute points for free, but they would not take them all away, that's just a huge assumption, one coming from a very odd place at that. Its in no way safe to assume that at all.

It is fairly safe. Let me show you my logic.

If you have a VR14 character and you don't remove the attributes and 13 extra skill points, then when new people get to that stage (which will just be level 50), they will be out attributed (and out skillpointed, but skill points are the lesser worry), meaning in a fair fight they will loose nearly every time.

This would mean people who haven't gotten their characters to VR14 before the Veteran levels disappear wpuld be terminally disadvantaged, which in turn would lead to them leaving (after all they can't ever make up those extra attributes, so can't even the playing field)

Now I'm pretty sure ZOS will spot this and have to rectify it.

Maybe for the 13 attribute points, as there is no other way to get them. For the skills, not a chance in hell, as there are so many ways to get them.

I'm 100% confident that my skills will not be taken away. Feel free to fear for yours all you like. Heck if they were, I would get over it though.

I initially thought the same about the Skill points (I did say they were a lesser worry), but when I thought about it, that would mean people have thirteen extra skill points, and people would gripe about it being unequal.

Which is why I said they would have to reset both attributes and skill points.

But reapplying the skill points, while annoying is a minor issue. Heck maybe you're right and they will leave them alone, I kind of doubt it, but maybe.

Merrak · December 2014

Elloa wrote: »

No both players will not be able to do the same content because it's PHASE 3 and all Dungeons, Trials an gear keep their ilvl and level restrictions. So Veteran14 players would still be the only ones capable to do City of Ashe Vet and Sanctum Ophidia. The Dungeons would still scale up to the level of the group players, like it is now. The Champions points would change nothing regarding that!

This is the very reasons, why, we will not see any sort of compensation for experience gained before the Update6 before PHASE4. I may be wrong, but I really think I'm right. We will see

Like you Elloa, I'm really hopeful that this would be the case, but obviously nobody really knows just yet what is going to happen for the next phase of the Champion System rollout.

Do you think this may occur because we are losing the vet rank differential and this is the way to make up for that lost power?

XEVENEX · December 2014

The logical solution would be to simply raise the level cap to 63 or higher. Veteran ranks will convert to levels. Everyone is happy.

AlexDougherty · December 2014

XEVENEX wrote: »

The logical solution would be to simply raise the level cap to 63 or higher. Veteran ranks will convert to levels. Everyone is happy.

That would be nice.

Guppet · December 2014

XEVENEX wrote: »

The logical solution would be to simply raise the level cap to 63 or higher. Veteran ranks will convert to levels. Everyone is happy.

Do you not understand why VR was removed? If they make the cap 63, then those VR levels are once again mandatory! They are removing VR so 50 is the end of levelling!!

The game is set up so you beat its end villain at 50. Until they add a decent new villain, probably in a new expansion, then there should be no more levels.

You get to 50, you get the last seasons gear, with currency or craft it, then you work towards getting the current seasons gear, in the latest content. This can be done at any time in the content cycle, as all previous levels of gear other than current and the last one are redundant. It keeps all the max level players in the same content cycle.

The champion system allows further development beyond max level, without increasing power levels too much. Gear wont have a CP requirement, as that then makes CP effectively required levels, stopping new 50's from joining the current content.

Its all really simple.

Gyudan · December 2014

Guppet wrote: »

I'm 100% confident that my skills will not be taken away.

See you in 3 months.

Guppet · December 2014

Gyudan wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

I'm 100% confident that my skills will not be taken away.

See you in 3 months.

Is that when you are coming back?

Gyudan · December 2014

Guppet wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

I'm 100% confident that my skills will not be taken away.

See you in 3 months.

Is that when you are coming back?

No, that's around when the veteran ranks will be removed along with skill and attribute points.

I guess they could also remove the fishing achievements too, since it will supposedly change a lot with the provisioning revamp and some players would get too much of a headstart.
Then they could remove all the VR1-VR14 crafting materials because those wouldn't make sense in a world where level 50 is the limit.
They could also remove the dungeon completion achievements (solo, public and group) because those are getting a few changes and it just won't be the same with the Champion System.
Then I believe that the PVP ranks could be reset as well because a character with level 35 is much stronger than my character with level 6. (so many skillpoints!)

Will all those changes, the game would be much more balanced and friendly towards new players. Yay!

Guppet · December 2014

Gyudan wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

I'm 100% confident that my skills will not be taken away.

See you in 3 months.

Is that when you are coming back?

No, that's around when the veteran ranks will be removed along with skill and attribute points.

I guess they could also remove the fishing achievements too, since it will supposedly change a lot with the provisioning revamp and some players would get too much of a headstart.
Then they could remove all the VR1-VR14 crafting materials because those wouldn't make sense in a world where level 50 is the limit.
They could also remove the dungeon completion achievements (solo, public and group) because those are getting a few changes and it just won't be the same with the Champion System.
Then I believe that the PVP ranks could be reset as well because a character with level 35 is much stronger than my character with level 6. (so many skillpoints!)

Will all those changes, the game would be much more balanced and friendly towards new players. Yay!

Wow im getting the feeling you are not butt hurt about the 30gate thing. Your butt hurt about the removal of VR!. That boat has well and truly sailed. Almost all the content for above level 50 will need adjusting, that's obvious.

LtCrunch · December 2014

The gear, stat and level gap is still there between a VR1 and VR14. So the gap between VR1 and VR14 will be the same with the 30 CP. The real concern would be that a VR1 has far more potential XP to gain towards additional CP than a VR14 who has completed all content aside from repeatable quests/instances.

Rune_Relic · December 2014

Brandalf wrote: »

The gear, stat and level gap is still there between a VR1 and VR14. So the gap between VR1 and VR14 will be the same with the 30 CP. The real concern would be that a VR1 has far more potential XP to gain towards additional CP than a VR14 who has completed all content aside from repeatable quests/instances.

...and what of those who grind to V14 and have all content still available ?

Running out of content has always been an issue....champion system or not.
What did you do before CS when you ran out of content ?

Gyudan · December 2014

Rune_Relic wrote: »

What did you do before CS when you ran out of content ?

When you had run out of content, you'd be VR14 and on top of the existing system, along with thousands of other players.

Now, those who have already ran out of content will see the other players get ahead of them one by one because they simply have more options to be rewarded in the new system.

Guppet · December 2014

Gyudan wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

What did you do before CS when you ran out of content ?

When you had run out of content, you'd be VR14 and on top of the existing system, along with thousands of other players.

Now, those who have already ran out of content will see the other players get ahead of them one by one because they simply have more options to be rewarded in the new system.

You did not answer him. What did you do? It sounds like you reached VR14 and dumped the character, so what changes for you in the new system?

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO · December 2014

I am surprised that this is a problem. Why must absolutely everyone play together? What would stop them from making, say, a three-tiered league system where you play with others who are about the same rank as you (below lvl 50, recently turned lvl 50, spent ages at lvl 50), and if you want to play with a different crowd, you get nerfed a bit for balance?

Are we really so few players left that they need to pile us all up in one group?

MissBizz · December 2014

AlnilamE wrote: »

(If we got XP for fishing, though, I'be V14 by now!)

Hah. Me too!

[EDIT] Quote went weird.

gilandbb14_ESO · December 2014

the attribute points are going away you would earn from vr1-vr14 yes, but that is where the 30 champ points come in. They stated that 30 champ points will allow the person to return to the same power level they were at at vr14.