ESO live and its aftermath

Leon119

im looking forward to the new update but the lack of clarification and some decisions made by ZOS have left lots of people angry and confused at the moment.

as far as i understand the topics people seem to be upset with is:

1) the fact that with the same starting point people who have completed lots of quests will be at a disadvantage at earning champion points (CP) than those who just have a vr1 character. this will probobly be solved in the first week though by people who will grind just for champion points ( dont lie. you know that will happen. ) meaning people who dont want to grind and dont have access to quests since they completed them will be at an even bigger disadvantage.

2) the fact that vr1 and vr14 both get rewarded with 30 points at the start. this upsets me personally as well. this is essentially telling you that all your work amounts to the same rewards as someone who didnt work towards this at all. i would be ok if 30 CP was the max we could get. or if 30 CP was a starting point and we got more based on how much extra vr ranks we have. i would even be ok with 0 points at the start for everyone. HOWEVER rewarding people the same for different amounts of work just seems lazy to me.

3) the sorc nerfs(nerf is arguable as we still need to test to be definitive): sorcs just got told that ZOS doesnt see anything wrong with them at all and that worries alot of people. buffing the pets could potencially be good for PVE but for PVP where the pets are easily CC-able it does nothing for them. also the changes to surge, sorcs who want to use a staff now have the options of having a self heal and lower dps or more dps and no self heal. this is definetly a nerf as the situation now is having both dps and a self heal. what the obvious solution to this should be is one morph that works as critical surge works now and one morph that gives ONLY spell damage and self heals. this way both playstyles can be accomodated. besides why would you need both spell and weapon damage now that staves are based on spell damage ?

4) ultimate generation: people here are confused a bit about the situation. apparently what they changed was that the ways to get ultimate are as follows ( quoted from Gina) :"That's not the only way (referring to the light and heavy attack buffs) to generate Ultimate; you can also use a few abilities to get more, such as Carve from the 2H skill line (and the amount of Ultimate that ability gives has been rebalanced as well) or healing another player with the Ultimate gain buff. You will not gain Ultimate by blocking or dodging."

this was done in order to make the amount of ultimate people got more streamlined. while this makes sense in pve ( you all saw at least one DK or a few NBs with 3 standards/veils down at the same time ) in pvp this means that groups with larger amounts of people in them will have more ultimates available therefore be stronger. player skills will still play a part in this but as it stands larger groups get an advantage.

all in all i agree with most things but i dont like some decisions that were made and the fact that some statements made by ZOS before are now proven as false.

please add anything that i missed or may have understood wrong. the update is not even on PTS yet so lets all remain calm and make our points heard. we all like the game since we are here so lets be civilized and talk about the things we take issue with to make this a better game overall.

Audigy

I have to disagree with you.

To me the explanations were all very good, especially for the design philosophy of the CS and I agree with that philosophy 100%.

Also, Maria said they aim at evening out the XP gain for all things that we can do. She mentioned that people can do AvA if they don't have quests left, or dungeons, or mob killing. I believe they are aware of the XP gain topic and as she said, they will work on it.

I feel much more positive now about the CS, after @ZOS_MariaAliprando explained it.

Ultimate Generation also sounds plausible to me, light and heavy attacks give you a gain and not how often you crit. Healers also get points if they heal during combat, which is important in AVA.

For me it was one of the best ESO live yet, very detailed information. But I think people need to come up with better questions in future. They often ask things which were explained earlier.

Leijona

If VR1 and VR14 characters get the same amount oft CP, then ZOS lied to us when they told us it would make sense to continue playing a V14.

Audigy

Leijona wrote: »

If VR1 and VR14 characters get the same amount oft CP, then ZOS lied to us when they told us it would make sense to continue playing a V14.

Well it made sense, if you have 8 VR chars then you get 8x30 points don't you? So someone with only one has less than you, who kept playing on his chars.

Evarwyn

Don't forget, they are phasing out the Vet System anyway. You're thinking way too short term.

Guppet

Leijona wrote: »

If VR1 and VR14 characters get the same amount oft CP, then ZOS lied to us when they told us it would make sense to continue playing a V14.

Lied or changed direction with development, call it what you will, they will never say one way or the other. It is what it is.

Enaijo

Guppet wrote: »

Lied or changed direction with development, call it what you will, they will never say one way or the other. It is what it is.

Yes, it's one, it's a bad change in the communication with the players. First with the new Undaunted-skills and the points for the achievements that weren't granted retroactive, now (at least it seems so because they avoid any question about it) the CP that will not be granted retroactive, based on the XP, despite any announcement that @ZOS_KaiSchober and the others made the last months, again and again. So what is next? New skills for the mages-guild without granting the XP for the lorebooks that we already gathered?

ThatHappyCat

Enaijo wrote: »

Yes, it's one, it's a bad change in the communication with the players.

Wait, are you accusing ZoS of not communicating with players in response to them communicating to players a change of plans?

kongkim

Leijona wrote: »

If VR1 and VR14 characters get the same amount oft CP, then ZOS lied to us when they told us it would make sense to continue playing a V14.

Its so stupid to say that they lied... They are testing and making changes all the time. Not all of them end up as they first say.

People really whine too much then things just don't go their way. And some people on this forum talks like all others think the same and all of the people in ESO agree with them. The trues is that its only a small part of the people in the game that is on the forum. And its only a few that yell up all the time.

Leijona

Audigy wrote: »

Well it made sense, if you have 8 VR chars then you get 8x30 points don't you? So someone with only one has less than you, who kept playing on his chars.

No, not necessarily. They only said, that a V1 get's 30 points. And as the points are accountwide, every VR char could get 30 points and you don't get 30 points for each char. But well, they don't clarify and people are worried.

And by the way, it is no argument against my statement. Because they said it will make sense to keep on playing a veteran character. But now it doesn't, as everyone should have stopped playing every character over V1 and started a second or third character.

Sure, they can say, they changed their opinion. On what points will they also change their opinion? Housing?

Gyudan

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »

Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.

Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

This was October 3rd, from the Champion System lead herself, not a 2nd rate info from a Community Rep.

xaraan

Audigy wrote: »

I have to disagree with you.

To me the explanations were all very good, especially for the design philosophy of the CS and I agree with that philosophy 100%.

Also, Maria said they aim at evening out the XP gain for all things that we can do. She mentioned that people can do AvA if they don't have quests left, or dungeons, or mob killing. I believe they are aware of the XP gain topic and as she said, they will work on it.

I feel much more positive now about the CS, after @ZOS_MariaAliprando explained it.

Ultimate Generation also sounds plausible to me, light and heavy attacks give you a gain and not how often you crit. Healers also get points if they heal during combat, which is important in AVA.

For me it was one of the best ESO live yet, very detailed information. But I think people need to come up with better questions in future. They often ask things which were explained earlier.

Unless they plan on giving out xp for standing around and watching others complete content, what exactly are the options for someone that has done the quests, enjoys doing quests over pvp or grinding and since end game content isn't really solo content, doesn't have any other options to earn points?

xChewtoyx

Audigy wrote: »

Leijona wrote: »

If VR1 and VR14 characters get the same amount oft CP, then ZOS lied to us when they told us it would make sense to continue playing a V14.

Well it made sense, if you have 8 VR chars then you get 8x30 points don't you? So someone with only one has less than you, who kept playing on his chars.

Yeah, I don't think its gonna work like that. If you have 8 vr14 characters you are still only going to get 30 points total.

Sindala

I think they are basically gonna wait till we test it out on the PTS with the 30 free points. To see what sort of trouble, exploits we find or how fast peeps grind points before they announce how many points will be awarded for VR ranks retrospectively.
Maria did give the impression that they were still gonna award retroactively but not just yet. Which sort of makes sense since if they announced it right now their would be hundreds of 'No point in joining ESO now as my 300 point level 1 char will wipe your newbie level 1 char that has no points as your new and wont have any points till you reach VR1' sort of threads.

Amsel_McKay

Yes its 30 points to your shared account if you have a many or a single VR1 or + on your account. This is great because the difference in PVP and PVE Raids will not be so huge the day 1.6 comes out.

Hardcore players will get their points fast enough so they can stop complaining that peoples epeen is the same size for a whole 1 day.

Sasky

It is possible they will do the CP based on your VR at a later time when they remove VR.

They've indicated they're going to remove VR but they want to hold off until a later patch. If they awarded CP based on how much XP you gained for getting the different VR, it'd increase the gap between someone with VR14 characters and someone with one VR1 character. You keep the attribute increases, access to better gear, and extra skill points on top of getting more champion points.

Since they're delaying the VR removal, ideally they'll
1) take a snapshot of your XP when 1.6 goes live
2) Determine how many CP they would give based on the VR and XP tracked after 14.
3) Award those CP when they remove VR.

It would keep from increasing the power gap in the short term, delay the bulk of the CP award until players are more familiar with the system, and offset negative impact from removing veteran ranks.

Guppet

Sindala wrote: »

I think they are basically gonna wait till we test it out on the PTS with the 30 free points. To see what sort of trouble, exploits we find or how fast peeps grind points before they announce how many points will be awarded for VR ranks retrospectively.

Maria did give the impression that they were still gonna award retroactively but not just yet. Which sort of makes sense since if they announced it right now their would be hundreds of 'No point in joining ESO now as my 300 point level 1 char will wipe your newbie level 1 char that has no points as your new and wont have any points till you reach VR1' sort of threads.

What did Maria say to give that impression? Seems everyone else missed that part!

Elloa

Guppet wrote: »

Sindala wrote: »

I think they are basically gonna wait till we test it out on the PTS with the 30 free points. To see what sort of trouble, exploits we find or how fast peeps grind points before they announce how many points will be awarded for VR ranks retrospectively.

Maria did give the impression that they were still gonna award retroactively but not just yet. Which sort of makes sense since if they announced it right now their would be hundreds of 'No point in joining ESO now as my 300 point level 1 char will wipe your newbie level 1 char that has no points as your new and wont have any points till you reach VR1' sort of threads.

What did Maria say to give that impression? Seems everyone else missed that part!

She said that it was PH3, that in PH3 we had the Champion UI, the possibility to earn champion points, and the possibility to place Champion point with all consequence it has on combat and build.
They are not going to remove the Veteran rank yet and the two system overlap each others.

So why people would receive the experience of their Veteran Rank AND still being Veteran ranked?