Critical surge....Here is your answer

SIN-X

NO!!!!!! It will not be changed to add spell damage as there is no reason for it. Just because you want to play with a stick does not mean everybody does. It will still serve its purpose of morphs I am sure as in the heal on crit. w/e or not its spell or wep it procs that , but lets be a little truthful on this every caster is gonna spam crushing shock because unless they remove the elemental skill it bypasses armor and yada yada. There are stam build sorcs that use the wep dam from surge and zos is not gonna be able to justify to them the removal of that or bound armor wep dam passive just because magicka sorcs wanna be better.Thats almost like hoping that the new armor passives all grant spell rest,spell pen, reduce stam and magikca cost so we can wear what we want and all be =. Point here is to all those who want to play there way and be as strong as another get over it, Wont happen and it should not. Play your way,Enjoy your way and if you pull 1.5k dps or 200 dps find players that enjoy the freedom of the game and stop crying for balance........WE CANT ALL BE ME!!!!!

Gorthax

agree, lets cripple sorcs! Screw them and wanting to be viable without using sword and board or 2h in pvp lol no sticks for you! /sarcasm

s7732425ub17_ESO

Crit Surge won't be changed to add Spell Damage. There are two main uses for it, and buffing spells is not one of them.
1. It's used to heal on crits.
2. It's used to buff weapon damage. Just because Destro staff currently uses weapon damage and is going to be changed to use spell damage does not mean its damage will change. It's going to be scaled differently. Also, the devs are doing a pass over every ability, so expect many, many things to be scaled differently.

AshySamurai

Someone supposed that this skill should add spell damage?

Gorthax

many threads say it should on the belief skills for us sorcs will be dumbed down even further. Which, lets be honest, we will probably still suck after 1.6 lol but hey! What does it matter right

Rune_Relic

When you use staves... you dont actually bash someone over the head or sweep them off their feet or poke them in the guts.
So they are physical items...but the damage they do is focusing magical damage like weapons focus physical damage.
No physical contact take place to invoke physical damage.

Hence staves should use magicka, spell crit and spell damage.
Unlike contact weapons which use stamina, weapon crit and weapon damage.

Now if you actually used stave like a staff or similar for physical combat then you would use...stamina, weapon crit, weapon damage. But it currently doesnt.

IMHO it would be nice if every item had part physical and part magical abilities to a greater or lesser degree and would use the proper stats for each to determine the damage done.

Lightning sword....
Part Physical damage = sword (stamina/weapon crit/dam)
Part Magical damage = lightning (magicka/spell crit/dam)

Obviously that lets the weapons vary between more magical or physical potency at player discretion. It also lets spell swords balance stamina and magicka in any way that maximises their build.

Like wise you could have a magicka shield that varies between physical resistance or spell resistance. Duality and balance with anything between.

Nightreaver

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Crit Surge won't be changed to add Spell Damage. There are two main uses for it, and buffing spells is not one of them.
1. It's used to heal on crits.
2. It's used to buff weapon damage. Just because Destro staff currently uses weapon damage and is going to be changed to use spell damage does not mean its damage will change. It's going to be scaled differently. Also, the devs are doing a pass over every ability, so expect many, many things to be scaled differently.

If Staff damage is changed from weapon damage to spell damage then as a Staff user it fails on the very main purpose you describe which is to increase the damage from the weapon.

If Staff damage is being changed to spell damage because its abilities requires Magicka then it follows that Critical Surge should increase spell damage since Critical Surge requires Magicka to cast.

SIN-X wrote: »

NO!!!!!! It will not be changed to add spell damage as there is no reason for it. Just because you want to play with a stick does not mean everybody does.!!!!

It also doesn't mean that everyone wants to play sword and board so what's your point?

SIN-X wrote: »

, but lets be a little truthful on this every caster is gonna spam crushing shock because unless they remove the elemental skill it bypasses armor and yada yada !!!

Actually, Sorcerers will continue to use it because we have no Class DPS skills that match weapon DPS. Although with the loss of the 13% damage bonus to Staves from the Flawless Dawnbreaker passive in addition to the loss of the bonus from Crit Surge that may change.

And as long as we're being honest then lets admit that Sorcerers are below par in DPS already and not in need of further nerfs to DPS. Although if Crit Surge does end up increasing spell damage from Class abilities then maybe our class abilities will allow us to actually compete with other DPS classes.

SIN-X wrote: »

. There are stam build sorcs that use the wep dam from surge and zos is not gonna be able to justify to them the removal of that or bound armor wep dam passive just because magicka sorcs wanna be better.!!!!!

There are also Magicka build Sorcs that use wep dam from Surge and Zos is not gonna be able to justify to them the removal of that.

Merlin13KAGL

Looks like everyone pretty well has this one covered already.

OP, amazed that you actually made a separate post for this...

Had you read the other ones, you'd know changing Crit Surge to use Spell Damage vice the 'stick' not everyone wants to play with would go towards not using said stick.

Two morph options, one for weapon, one for spell...

Sorcs should not have to rely in their weapons based magic skills (figure that one out) as their primary source of damage.

@Rune_Relic‌ already covered that here. I already covered it elsewhere.

Nightreaver

@Merlin13KAGL
I agree completely with the idea of 2 morphs, one for spell, one for weapon but the issue then becomes what does the base ability use?

My personal preference would be to remove all damage from the base ability and replace it with the Crit Heal from the morph. This would make the base ability equal for both Stamina and Magicka builds as well as providing leveling Sorcerers with earlier access to the heal. Then Morph 1 could add 30 spell damage and Morph 2 add 60 Weapon damage. Actual numbers could change base on balance.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Sorcs should not have to rely in their weapons based magic skills (figure that one out) as their primary source of damage.

@Rune_Relic‌ already covered that here. I already covered it elsewhere.

I agree with this 100% and would really love to see that be the case in 1.6

The_Sadist

Or, bear with me, the spell itself could be changed to increase damage in general, meaning both weapon and spell damage, by x and to compensate the overall damage buff is decreased slightly.

No? Well I tried.

Dymence

Nightreaver wrote: »

Although with the loss of the 13% damage bonus to Staves from the Flawless Dawnbreaker passive

I'm pretty sure we won't lose this damage bonus. The flawless dawnbreaker passive states that weapon skills gain 13% damage bonus while this ultimate is slotted. Last time I checked, staves are still classified as 'weapons' and thus having crushing shock and the like falling into the category of 'weapon skills'.

zaria

SIN-X wrote: »

NO!!!!!! It will not be changed to add spell damage as there is no reason for it. Just because you want to play with a stick does not mean everybody does. It will still serve its purpose of morphs I am sure as in the heal on crit. w/e or not its spell or wep it procs that , but lets be a little truthful on this every caster is gonna spam crushing shock because unless they remove the elemental skill it bypasses armor and yada yada. There are stam build sorcs that use the wep dam from surge and zos is not gonna be able to justify to them the removal of that or bound armor wep dam passive just because magicka sorcs wanna be better.Thats almost like hoping that the new armor passives all grant spell rest,spell pen, reduce stam and magikca cost so we can wear what we want and all be =. Point here is to all those who want to play there way and be as strong as another get over it, Wont happen and it should not. Play your way,Enjoy your way and if you pull 1.5k dps or 200 dps find players that enjoy the freedom of the game and stop crying for balance........WE CANT ALL BE ME!!!!!

Main problem is that new players starting the game looks at the classes and think. Dragonknight= heavy armor+big sword,
nightblade= bow+ dueal wield+medium armor
sorcerer= dress and stick.

Very few roll sorcerer with the purpose using an bow same as few roll DK for using dress and stick as they are unlikely to know its it work out best in the endgame some months and patches later.

If player find you do less than half the dps of other using the arctypical skill for class its an good chance player will QQ.
The QQ part is way more important than your mussing as it affect the revenue.

Gyudan

Right now for DPS, Stamina sorc is way more effective than magicka.
Both are inferior to

Rune_Relic wrote: »

When you use staves... you dont actually bash someone over the head or sweep them off their feet or poke them in the guts.
So they are physical items...but the damage they do is focusing magical damage like weapons focus physical damage.
No physical contact take place to invoke physical damage.

Hence staves should use magicka, spell crit and spell damage.
Unlike contact weapons which use stamina, weapon crit and weapon damage

Yet, when you improve your staff, from basic white to epic purple, you are increasing your weapon damage and granting more damage to your staff abilities.

Should this change also affect the efficiency of staff upgrades? Should all staff users stop at white quality because it won't increase the damage of their abilities anyway? (even if weaving with a better staff will make a slight difference)

Rune_Relic

Gyudan wrote: »

Right now for DPS, Stamina sorc is way more effective than magicka.
Both are inferior to

Rune_Relic wrote: »

When you use staves... you dont actually bash someone over the head or sweep them off their feet or poke them in the guts.
So they are physical items...but the damage they do is focusing magical damage like weapons focus physical damage.
No physical contact take place to invoke physical damage.

Hence staves should use magicka, spell crit and spell damage.
Unlike contact weapons which use stamina, weapon crit and weapon damage

Yet, when you improve your staff, from basic white to epic purple, you are increasing your weapon damage and granting more damage to your staff abilities.

Should this change also affect the efficiency of staff upgrades? Should all staff users stop at white quality because it won't increase the damage of their abilities anyway? (even if weaving with a better staff will make a slight difference)

But will it be weapon damage in 1.6
AFAIK it will be spell damage with magicka + spell crit.
So increasing quality will increase spell damage instead.
Thats the only way that makes sense to me from whats been said anyway.

Gyudan

Dev answer: a new morph for surge
- morph 1: critical surge, untouched: boosts weapon damage and heals on crit strikes
- morph 2: boosts both weapon and spell damage

Goodbye power surge.

s7732425ub17_ESO

Gyudan wrote: »

Dev answer: a new morph for surge
- morph 1: critical surge, untouched: boosts weapon damage and heals on crit strikes
- morph 2: boosts both weapon and spell damage

Goodbye power surge.

This is going to be a tough choice. Do I want to be able to self-sustain solo, or do I want absolute max deeps?

NordJitsu

This is the biggest nerf to magicka Sorcs yet.

I don't think the change should have made Stamina sorcs non-viable, but making Magicka-sorcs non viable is ridiculous.

Crit Surge should either increase both Weapon Power and Spell Power or there should be morph options to pick one or the other but both should heal you on Critical Hits.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Crit Surge won't be changed to add Spell Damage. There are two main uses for it, and buffing spells is not one of them.
1. It's used to heal on crits.
2. It's used to buff weapon damage. Just because Destro staff currently uses weapon damage and is going to be changed to use spell damage does not mean its damage will change. It's going to be scaled differently. Also, the devs are doing a pass over every ability, so expect many, many things to be scaled differently.

You were saying?

Yolokin_Swagonborn

This is what it should be changed to.

Base skill: Increase spell power and weapon power.

Morph 1: Increase Spell power and heal on crit

Morph 2: Increase weapon power and heal on crit.

This gives you tons of options.

If you want to go glass cannon, don't morph. The unmorphed version will also help new sorcs while leveling.

If you want heals, pick your poison based on what you build you have.

kkravaritieb17_ESO

Totally agree with you mate.

s7732425ub17_ESO

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Crit Surge won't be changed to add Spell Damage. There are two main uses for it, and buffing spells is not one of them.
1. It's used to heal on crits.
2. It's used to buff weapon damage. Just because Destro staff currently uses weapon damage and is going to be changed to use spell damage does not mean its damage will change. It's going to be scaled differently. Also, the devs are doing a pass over every ability, so expect many, many things to be scaled differently.

You were saying?

I'm still definitely going to keep the heal on crit morph.

Leon119

If magicka builds with staves rely only on spell damage whats the use for the weapon dmg buff if you only need the spell damage
I agree with the Swagonborn
they should make you choose which one you need and the heal on crits

c0rp

Yep...they need to address this. 2 Morphs...one for weapon power, one for spell power, and they BOTH heal on crit.

@zos_MariaAliprando @zos_PaulSage @zos_ginaBruno @zos_MattFiror‌

Dracane

Gyudan wrote: »

Dev answer: a new morph for surge
- morph 1: critical surge, untouched: boosts weapon damage and heals on crit strikes
- morph 2: boosts both weapon and spell damage

Goodbye power surge.

Did they actually say this ?
Actually not soooo bad. But now it will most likely only last 20 seconds. So let's hope, that the increase for weapon and spell damage is at least not 50%, but the full value for both.

But they really should make it so, that we can choose a weapon or spell damage one and both heal on crit or give some safe heal, not only on crits.

NordJitsu

Dracane wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

Dev answer: a new morph for surge
- morph 1: critical surge, untouched: boosts weapon damage and heals on crit strikes
- morph 2: boosts both weapon and spell damage

Goodbye power surge.

Did they actually say this ?
Actually not soooo bad. But now it will most likely only last 20 seconds. So let's hope, that the increase for weapon and spell damage is at least not 50%, but the full value for both.

No it's pretty terrible. It means if you're magicka based then the only reason for crit surge is the heal, you're massively cutting your DPS,

If you want to keep the DPS, you loose the sorcerers only decent self heal.

Dracane

@NordJitsu Yes, you are right. But critical surge is not even a decent self heal. It is so unreliable. @Yolokin_Swagonborn 's solution is the best.

NordJitsu

Dracane wrote: »

@NordJitsu Yes, you are right. But critical surge is not even a decent self heal. It is so unreliable. @Yolokin_Swagonborn 's solution is the best.

It may have been unreliable but it was the best we had. In PvE you could stack crit and it would be pretty reliable. PvP obviously impen makes it less useful.

Dracane

In PvE it is indeed good. But for PvP, I use power surge and I dont want to respec all the time, when I switch between PvE and PvP. I can't see critical surge becoming a good heal in PvP.

-No crits against damage shields possible (And almost everyone uses/stacks them)

-No crits against blocks possible. Even if : the healing received is based on your damage dealt. And it will be laughable if blocked.

-IF you get the opportunity to hit the enemy, when he doesn't block and has no shields up, you still need luck, since many are using impenetrable.

So critical surge will never be a choice for me.

Jahosefat

I'm going to be sad if both morphs only last ~20 secs and have the same high mag cost.

Nightreaver

Gyudan wrote: »

Dev answer: a new morph for surge
- morph 1: critical surge, untouched: boosts weapon damage and heals on crit strikes
- morph 2: boosts both weapon and spell damage

Goodbye power surge.

I really hope that is someone's idea of a sick joke.
If the intent was to outdo all previous Sorc nerfs then congrats you succeeded. Can we at least have the name of the (this space intentionally left blank) that came up with this?

Base Ability
I am assuming the base ability will remain the same making it useless to any Sorcerer who actually plays as a Sorcerer and uses a Staff by completely eliminating the damage bonus.

- Nerf morph 1: critical surge, untouched: boosts weapon damage and heals on crit strikes
Again, a nerf to any Sorcerer who actually plays as a Sorcerer and uses a Staff by completely eliminating the damage bonus.

- Nerf morph 2: boosts both weapon and spell damage
See above except instead of losing the damage bonus you are losing the Heal.

So Stamina builds will be able to choose between increased damage or additional healing while Magicka builds will be given the opportunity to choose between nerfs. Thank you ever so much for nerfing the primary ability that most Sorcerers have made the core of their builds.

One question then
If Staves are being changed to use spell power instead of weapon power because the abilities use Magicka then why the 'ell is an ability that uses Magicka increasing weapon power instead of spell power?

ThatHappyCat

How about we wait for 1.6 and see if new healing options are added for Sorcs before we bring out the pitchforks. Remember everything's being changed, not just one thing.