About Snipe...

Columba

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

faernaa wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I doubt it happened in one second, considering:
Initial Snipe hits->3 seconds to restealth->enemy starts casting snipe 2 seconds in->Snipe takes 1 second~ to land.

You had a grand total of 3-4 seconds to react before that second Snipe (empowered by Morag Tong set bonus) landed.

Human average reaction speed is 0,25 seconds.

Congratulations, you have the reflexes of a potato.

Hmm total of 3-4 seconds to react is bit of hyperbole imo.

Snipe hits -> restealth with cancelling cloak animation -> fire another snipe which has 1.1 sec cast time and 1 sec flight time.

Total required amount of time is 2.1 seconds to second snipe lands on target. If you don't even need restealth, then just 1 second is enough to hit second snipe.

It's almost enough time for only CC break.

And not many snipers picking targets who are in peace. They are almost every time picking targets who are actually in fight. And in a fight, if you get 1k dmg(+-) from a single skill +stun means you are pretty ***'ed already.

At full distance any class can get 2 snipes off now before out of stealth and follow up with any number of attacks out of stealth.

Only against noobs.

kijima

Asgari you don't use a bow so how are you qualified again?

Don't get me wrong, if I need advice about spamming another skill, like flame lash or something, I'll come ask you about it. But I wont be taking advice from you about bow.

2 snipes off on a player doesn't mean they go auto boom. Not even close.

Lava_Croft

Columba wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I have yet to meet a non-scrub who doesn't think the current implementation of Snipe is just silly.

The most vocal defender of Snipe in this thread is the same guy who cried endless tears about a skill called Impulse, an AoE skill with <10m range.

'Nuff said.

Lol. Lack of comprehension for $100, Alex. Snipe doesn't lag out battles, genius. L2p

Your endless whining about Impulse started long before the threads about lag + Impulse. Check up on your own post history.

Asgari

kijima wrote: »

Asgari you don't use a bow so how are you qualified again?

Don't get me wrong, if I need advice about spamming another skill, like flame lash or something, I'll come ask you about it. But I wont be taking advice from you about bow.

2 snipes off on a player doesn't mean they go auto boom. Not even close.

Seeing as I have a NB that for months ran bow before and after the snipe change I'm fully aware of its capabilities. I never said snipe only but the simple fact snipe it self has more damage and all the other items I listed for such a low cost isn't a good thing. There is no class skill or other ability that does what snipe does.

It simply needs to be tweaked a bit more to be brought even with other skills in its range. No need for you to panic and try to attack me. Honestly any of you bow users wouldn't stand a chance against my DK. I'm simply looking out for the other classes who your snipe is very overpowered against.

Durham

The only problem I have with bow is that the DPs is higher then twohander...from a safer range...

Columba

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I have yet to meet a non-scrub who doesn't think the current implementation of Snipe is just silly.

The most vocal defender of Snipe in this thread is the same guy who cried endless tears about a skill called Impulse, an AoE skill with <10m range.

'Nuff said.

Lol. Lack of comprehension for $100, Alex. Snipe doesn't lag out battles, genius. L2p

Your endless whining about Impulse started long before the threads about lag + Impulse. Check up on your own post history.

Lol. Lies. Sorry you never understood the intent of the complaints. Impulse by itself isn't that big a deal. It's when 20+ lagsploiters spam it continuously to lag the game out that it becomes a problem. Reading is fundamental.

DDuke

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

kijima wrote: »

Asgari you don't use a bow so how are you qualified again?

Don't get me wrong, if I need advice about spamming another skill, like flame lash or something, I'll come ask you about it. But I wont be taking advice from you about bow.

2 snipes off on a player doesn't mean they go auto boom. Not even close.

Seeing as I have a NB that for months ran bow before and after the snipe change I'm fully aware of its capabilities. I never said snipe only but the simple fact snipe it self has more damage and all the other items I listed for such a low cost isn't a good thing. There is no class skill or other ability that does what snipe does.

It simply needs to be tweaked a bit more to be brought even with other skills in its range. No need for you to panic and try to attack me. Honestly any of you bow users wouldn't stand a chance against my DK. I'm simply looking out for the other classes who your snipe is very overpowered against.

That is not true, Crystal Fragments currently has higher base damage (out of stealth) than Snipe, not to mention they're also reducing the cast time in 1.6.

Not that it really matters, since only a noob would spam a single, interruptable casted ability against opponent in PvP.

Also, you're giving up a lot on survivability (atleast as a Nightblade) if you decide to go stamina build, instead of one of the all too common "block cast, spam heals/shields & heavy attack" builds out there.
Next patch this will be even more evident, as they are making resto staves scale off spell damage instead of weapon damage (good riddance bow/resto builds).

Last I checked, the other 3 classes besides DK were also very much able to beat snipe spammers (unless they have potato reflexes like the poster on the last page). All you have to do is hold block/dodge & cast shield/heals.
The sniper either has to run away, or run out of resources and die.

If your concerns regarding Snipe come from PvE perspective, then keep in mind that while stamina builds (not snipe spam only) usually bring a lot more dps to the grp, they also bring a lot less synergies & ultimates.
E.g. a stamina build might deal 1.6k DPS, while a Siphoning NB gets 1k, but that Siphoning NB brings also 1k+ healing per second and ultimates to save the group.


Point is, it is good to have different builds good at different things. It is called build diversity, which this game is actually still lacking very much.

Anyhow, at this point, I don't really even care if they nerf Snipe even more. I've already been considering replacing it with something else, and there is a Bow Heavy Attack build that should deal equal (if not more) burst damage.

Mauz

The only thing which annoyes me about snipe is that block doesnt seem to work properly from time to time. A blocked snipe non crit of about 200 dmg I can handle.

Has somebody else problems with block too? Its not only with snipe but if I see 4digit dmg in my death cap its more obvious than with low dmg abilities. I did not have these issues before I became a werewolf.

A player said its if you switch weapons but I'm having this even if I did not switch weapons at all.

Tankqull

DDuke wrote: »

Last I checked, the other 3 classes besides DK were also very much able to beat snipe spammers (unless they have potato reflexes like the poster on the last page). All you have to do is hold block/dodge & cast shield/heals.
The sniper either has to run away, or run out of resources and die.

well not all snipe spam deaths are connected to horrible reactions. this game extreamly often somehow stacks attacks before delivering the information towards the recievers client just two examples.

BE'ed out of range of the templar and the sorc range my groupmate heald me back to ~80% life - bam dead.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v198/Tankqull/ESO/Screenshot_20150110_005922_zpsf73e4eec.jpg [directupload does some how not like that pic^^]
saw two enemy chars shielded my self while blocking first char a NB ambushed me -> no cc thx to block and no dmg thx to my shields while BE´ing behind a stone out of los of the second guy i died.
after releasing 6 snipe sound files have been played while staying safely infront of the transitus shrine...

regarding a small nerf to snipe:
i would like to see is a change to the out of stealth mechanic. only players not evolved in a fight can be guaranteed crit sniped from stealth. every one who is flagged "in fight" will recieve only a normal snipe attack without the stealth dmg increasement and the 100% crit.

ah and maybe small reduction in the maximum dmg dealt, its a bit rediculous that the highest hitting attack is simultanious the attack with the largest range...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v198/Tankqull/ESO/Screenshot_20150110_013608_zpse48df2fe.jpg

DDuke

Tankqull wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Last I checked, the other 3 classes besides DK were also very much able to beat snipe spammers (unless they have potato reflexes like the poster on the last page). All you have to do is hold block/dodge & cast shield/heals.
The sniper either has to run away, or run out of resources and die.

well not all snipe spam deaths are connected to horrible reactions. this game extreamly often somehow stacks attacks before delivering the information towards the recievers client just two examples.

BE'ed out of range of the templar and the sorc range my groupmate heald me back to ~80% life - bam dead.


saw two enemy chars shielded my self while blocking first char a NB ambushed me -> no cc thx to block and no dmg thx to my shields while BE´ing behind a stone out of los of the second guy i died.
after releasing 6 snipe sound files have been played while staying safely infront of the transitus shrine...

regarding a small nerf to snipe:
i would like to see is a change to the out of stealth mechanic. only players not evolved in a fight can be guaranteed crit sniped from stealth. every one who is flagged "in fight" will recieve only a normal snipe attack without the stealth dmg increasement and the 100% crit.

That is called latency then, you should be aiming your anger at Cyrodiil lag, instead of the bow users
It doesn't really matter what skills hit you while you lag, you usually die
(source: experience)

Also, the damage on your first screenshot (second one is not showing) is only 2,4k after the fearsome snipe->snipe... that is extremely easy to achieve with multiple other magicka/stamina builds. The bow burst I'm using is guaranteed to kill anyone below 3k health, and it does not include more than one snipe (which can actually be replaced by another skill).
Actually, I can "one shot" people just as easily out of stealth as I do from stealth with a certain NB combo

Personally, I usually just shrug off those snipe spammers, not one of them has managed to kill me yet (unless I was engaged with multiple other opponents), and I'm a NB with no heals or dmg shields on my bar.

Regarding your "nerf to snipe", that actually doesn't remove any of the complaints (people fresh to the battlefield will still hit you hard) and only makes 1vX even more impossible for stealth builds in general.

I do agree the TTK in this game needs improvement, but first you have to fix the perma block, block casting & dmg shield/heal spam issues, which would make the game unplayable for people who's only chance currently at killing someone, is to burst him/her down fast enough.

Tankqull

DDuke wrote: »

Also, the damage on your first screenshot (second one is not showing) is only 2,4k after the fearsome snipe->snipe... that is extremely easy to achieve with multiple other magicka/stamina builds. The bow burst I'm using is guaranteed to kill anyone below 3k health, and it does not include more than one snipe (which can actually be replaced by another skill).
Actually, I can "one shot" people just as easily out of stealth as I do from stealth with a certain NB combo

sure the ambush+ult+finisher combo is quite nice but is alot more situational than snipe as you do expose yourself way more especially when yue missinterprated the situation slightly and your opponent could get up blocking the moment you attack. 99% of the NB´s doing that are dead afterwards :disagree: while sniper thx to their range advantage get out of trouble easily - so the risk vs reward for the melee is given while on the otherhand the sniper has no risk just rewards if hes not compleatly braindead while playing

DDuke wrote: »

I do agree the TTK in this game needs improvement, but first you have to fix the perma block, block casting & dmg shield/heal spam issues, which would make the game unplayable for people who's only chance currently at killing someone, is to burst him/her down fast enough.

well you cant touch one without adjusting the other at the same moment.
if you do not reduce dmg simultaniously to mitigation options fights don´t last longer than 2-4sec as the burst in this game is insane and only balanced somehow by the mitigation mechanics. group fights would become a slaughterhouse as with assist noone would survive longer than half a second.

DDuke

Tankqull wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Also, the damage on your first screenshot (second one is not showing) is only 2,4k after the fearsome snipe->snipe... that is extremely easy to achieve with multiple other magicka/stamina builds. The bow burst I'm using is guaranteed to kill anyone below 3k health, and it does not include more than one snipe (which can actually be replaced by another skill).
Actually, I can "one shot" people just as easily out of stealth as I do from stealth with a certain NB combo

sure the ambush+ult+finisher combo is quite nice but is alot more situational than snipe as you do expose yourself way more especially when yue missinterprated the situation slightly and your opponent could get up blocking the moment you attack. 99% of the NB´s doing that are dead afterwards :disagree: while sniper thx to their range advantage get out of trouble easily - so the risk vs reward for the melee is given while on the otherhand the sniper has no risk just rewards if hes not compleatly braindead while playing

DDuke wrote: »

I do agree the TTK in this game needs improvement, but first you have to fix the perma block, block casting & dmg shield/heal spam issues, which would make the game unplayable for people who's only chance currently at killing someone, is to burst him/her down fast enough.

well you cant touch one without adjusting the other at the same moment.
if you do not reduce dmg simultaniously to mitigation options fights don´t last longer than 2-4sec as the burst in this game is insane and only balanced somehow by the mitigation mechanics. group fights would become a slaughterhouse as with assist noone would survive longer than half a second.

I think we can agree that the balance in this game is messed up in both directions.

On one side, you have players bursting down people in 1-2 seconds, and on the other you have players tanking 20 people, having almost infinite resources & being practically unkillable until those resources are gone (especially in 1v1).

And ranged stamina builds are dealing more/equal burst than melee stamina builds. I don't feel compelled at all to open fights from melee (from stealth), when it is so weak compared to ranged. We'll see if the stamina morph to Veiled Strike changes things... I doubt it though

QuadroTony

Tankqull wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Last I checked, the other 3 classes besides DK were also very much able to beat snipe spammers (unless they have potato reflexes like the poster on the last page). All you have to do is hold block/dodge & cast shield/heals.
The sniper either has to run away, or run out of resources and die.

well not all snipe spam deaths are connected to horrible reactions. this game extreamly often somehow stacks attacks before delivering the information towards the recievers client just two examples.

BE'ed out of range of the templar and the sorc range my groupmate heald me back to ~80% life - bam dead.

niiiiceeee
V-NASTY, my pupile

QuadroTony

my record
but not on player, crit 3192 to the Pact Mender

Junipus

QuadroTony wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Last I checked, the other 3 classes besides DK were also very much able to beat snipe spammers (unless they have potato reflexes like the poster on the last page). All you have to do is hold block/dodge & cast shield/heals.
The sniper either has to run away, or run out of resources and die.

well not all snipe spam deaths are connected to horrible reactions. this game extreamly often somehow stacks attacks before delivering the information towards the recievers client just two examples.

BE'ed out of range of the templar and the sorc range my groupmate heald me back to ~80% life - bam dead.

niiiiceeee
V-NASTY, my pupile

Hope you're not as squishy as he is.

QuadroTony

20 kill on 1 death
and no single point or chant to useless HP

AHAHAHAHH

while focused AIM OP i will shoot people in few seconds

Columba

decent players don't spam snipe, lol. venom arrow, and siphons skills are typically mixed in for best results

QuadroTony

too slow
focused aim more faster, i will shoot you to prove

Columba

QuadroTony wrote: »

too slow
focused aim more faster, i will shoot you to prove

i rarely die to focused aim, lol. easy to avoid.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks that even with the health debuff stacking being fixed, it's still pretty silly that you can dish out around 1k damage every 1.1s from an insane distance, without ever really putting yourself at risk of anything? To me it's pretty clear that the debuff stacking wasn't really the problem with Snipe. It's the fact that it's the longest distance attack, among the highest damaging attacks and it comes with a health debuff which just makes no real sense to me.

I guess I'm just a noob? (that should roll, dodge, block, etc?)

[EDIT] Special edit for @Columba.

Having one of every toon that uses every weapon combo imaginable I can tell you for a fact that snipe is nothing compared to single target mage abilities I can use with any weapon.

Now this may change in the coming months who knows, but nothing in the changes so far have showed me that a resto/destro full light wont still be the best in game.

QuadroTony

somewhere here was the post about Lethal arrow and 5-piece Morag-Tong bonus

but its impossible, right? because there is a dagger, 5th piece in this set

NordJitsu

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks that even with the health debuff stacking being fixed, it's still pretty silly that you can dish out around 1k damage every 1.1s from an insane distance, without ever really putting yourself at risk of anything? To me it's pretty clear that the debuff stacking wasn't really the problem with Snipe. It's the fact that it's the longest distance attack, among the highest damaging attacks and it comes with a health debuff which just makes no real sense to me.

I guess I'm just a noob? (that should roll, dodge, block, etc?)

[EDIT] Special edit for @Columba.

Having one of every toon that uses every weapon combo imaginable I can tell you for a fact that snipe is nothing compared to single target mage abilities I can use with any weapon.

Now this may change in the coming months who knows, but nothing in the changes so far have showed me that a resto/destro full light wont still be the best in game.

Considering that that hasn't been the best set up since about May, I think you can rest easy.