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Why are there no children NPCs in the game?

Gyudan
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I'm not referring to AD players here, just plain NPC children in the cities.
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I know that they weren't present in the ES series until Skyrim but both Morrowind and Oblivion had well known mods adding the offsprings of men.

I would like to see young mer, khajiit and argonian too.

Skyrim:
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Wololo.
  • MornaBaine
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    I've come to really hate not seeing NPC children in cities and towns. I find it immersion breaking. Skyrim may have been the ES game that really brought them to the forefront as you could interact with many of the NPC children. But while they were not in earlier games it still seems very strange that ZOS left them out of ESO. I hope that's an oversight they'll correct at some point.
    Edited by MornaBaine on December 12, 2014 11:22AM
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  • MornaBaine
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    "What are you looking at? I'm not afraid of you, ya know, even if you are my elder!"

    "One of the new servants? Remember that I like my meat rare."

    No thank you - I'm quite happy not hearing (or seeing) any bratty kids

    LOL Oh yeah there were a few you wanted to totally backhand...but I feel the same way about the mouthy guards we have now too.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

  • Sindala
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    Was probably due to the game wanting a Teens rating (pegi 15 or whatever you call it in the States) when it was made and Violence towards children would have stopped it (think Justice system and yes it was planned way back then also).
    The slap in the face came about 2 weeks before launch when the 'powers that be' slapped an Adult tag onto the game anyway.
    Edited by Sindala on December 12, 2014 12:20PM
    Being First is not the prize, it just mean's everyone can stab you in the back.
  • MornaBaine
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    Sindala wrote: »
    Was probably due to the game wanting a Teens rating (pegi 15 or whatever you call it in the States) when it was made and Violence towards children would have stopped it (think Justice system and yes it was planned way back then also).
    The slap in the face came about 2 weeks before launch when the 'powers that be' slapped an Adult tag onto the game anyway.

    Although not realistic, I don't really have a big issue with making children unkillable. However, it WOULD be cool if you could use the Intimidate and Persuade skills on them in order to scare the livin' bejezus...ahem, I mean...REASON with them in order to make them more...manageable. ;)
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  • AlexDougherty
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    Just imagine being in a town and having a snot nosed Bratt following you around saying the now old saying "Did you hear that someone saved King Casimere, I'd like to buy him some candy."

    Now that would be fun, and at least a Kid running around yelling "The Bad Man is Dead" would make sense.
    People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
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  • Unknown_poster
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    This topic pops up every couple weeks...and the answer is always the same. If you had interactable children npcs that could be killed there would be a flamestorm (not my first word choice, but meh, they have a filter). So, easiest solution, no children npc in game.

    [Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Inappropriate Content and Language]
    Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on December 12, 2014 6:23PM
  • MornaBaine
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    This topic pops up every couple weeks...and the answer is always the same. If you had interactable children npcs that could be killed there would be a flamestorm (not my first word choice, but meh, they have a filter). So, easiest solution, no children npc in game.

    MANY other MMOs have children NPCs, including the M rated Age of Conan. They are simply unkillable. No "flamestorm" has occurred there. And THAT game has bared b00bies! LOL So I think ZOS could risk it. It's just too weird without them.

    [Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]
    Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on December 12, 2014 6:23PM
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  • tengri
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    My guess: they just didnt want to commit the resources to make all those additional models for all races only for "immersion" (and no, simply scaling an adult model to a smaller size would not be enough, that just looks weird)...
  • MornaBaine
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    tengri wrote: »
    My guess: they just didnt want to commit the resources to make all those additional models for all races only for "immersion" (and no, simply scaling an adult model to a smaller size would not be enough, that just looks weird)...

    Fair point. But they could certainly phase them in over time as the game matures and do the children of one race with each Update.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

  • Gyudan
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    ESO rating: M (17+)
    Skyrim rating: M (17+)
    Oblivion rating: M (17+)
    Morrowind rating: T (13+)

    The Elder Scrolls Online - ESRB review
    Platform: Macintosh, Windows PC, PlayStation 4, Xbox One

    Rating Category: M (17+)

    Content Descriptors: Blood and Gore, Sexual Themes, Use of Alcohol, Violence

    Other:
    Includes online features that may expose players to unrated user-generated content (Macintosh, Windows PC, PlayStation 4, Xbox One)

    Rating Summary: This is a multiplayer online role-playing game in which players assume the role of a warrior in the fantastical world of Nirn. As players explore open-world environments, they can perform various quests and complete tasks. Characters use swords, arrows, axes, and magic attacks (e.g., lightning, fire attacks) to kill human-like and fantastical enemies (e.g., orcs, demons, giant insects). Players engage in melee-style combat, hacking and slashing at various enemies; battles are highlighted by cries of pain, impact sounds, and blood splashes. Some sequences depict large amounts of blood streaming up-close as vampires attack/feed on characters. In some quests players have the ability to mount creatures' severed heads onto pikes; some environments depict corpse piles or skeletons hanging from torture devices. Text descriptions or dialogue sometimes contain references to sexual material and/or innuendo (e.g., “She...*** the men as cruelly as Bal had ravished her”; “In his mind, she would be the sheath to every knight's blade”; “No sweetmeat for you”; But it is huge! It could take me all night!”). During the course of the game, alcohol (i.e., wine, mead, ale) can be purchased and consumed by the central character; one sequence prompts players to engage in a drinking contest, resulting in the central character's blurred vision/slurred speech.

    The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - ESRB review
    Platform: Windows PC, PlayStation 3, Xbox 360

    Rating Category: M (17+)

    Content Descriptors: Blood and Gore, Intense Violence, Sexual Themes, Use of Alcohol

    Rating Summary: This is a fantasy role-playing game in which players assume the role of Dovakin, a prophesied figure with the power to combat dragons in the fictional world of Skyrim. As players traverse through mountainous 'open-world' environments, they complete missions and quests that impact the eventual fate of their character. Players use swords, bows and arrows, axes, and magic attacks (e.g., fireballs, ice shards) to kill various enemies (e.g., wolves, dragons, human bandits and soldiers). As players engage in melee-style combat, some sequences are highlighted by slow-motion effects, particularly for decapitations. Large blood-splatter effects also occur during combat, and some environments are stained with blood or body parts (e.g., heads impaled on spikes). Some sequences allow players to injure/kill nonadversary characters, including prisoners chained to a wall; they scream in pain amid splashes of blood or fire. As the game progresses, the dialogue and on-screen text contains references to sexual material (e.g., “. . . all the *** your heart, or any other organ, desires,” “She . . . *** the men as cruelly as Bal had ravished her,” and “Remember when you thought [he] was . . . intent on making you . . . into his personal sex slave?”). Alcohol such as wine, mead, and ale can be purchased and consumed by players' character throughout the game; in one sequence, players can engage in a drinking contest with another character, which eventually results in slurred speech (e.g., “One more. No problemsh . . . Thash grape!”).

    Children aren't part of any rating summary.
    Wololo.
  • Lord_Kreegan
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    Why are there no children NPCs in the game?

    Options:
    1. They're all in their grandparents' basements playing ESO.
    2. They were all eaten by a grue.
    3. In Nirn, they are known as Daedra. We see the little ones running around all the time...
    4. They're all good little boys and girls, going to school every day and getting tucked into bed every night, so why would you expect to see them out on the streets?
    5. They're all bad little boys and girls, safely locked away where they can't do any harm, so why would you expect to see them out on the streets?
    6. You see those bubbles in the lakes, rivers, streams, and ocean? Who do you think is making those bubbles? If you try real hard when you're fishing, you might catch one...
    7. They are the gankers in Cyrodil that you never see.
    8. You know those meetbags fired by catapults? Where do you think we get the ammunition?
    9. <fill in your suspicion>
  • MornaBaine
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    Why are there no children NPCs in the game?

    Options:
    1. They're all in their grandparents' basements playing ESO.
    2. They were all eaten by a grue.
    3. In Nirn, they are known as Daedra. We see the little ones running around all the time...
    4. They're all good little boys and girls, going to school every day and getting tucked into bed every night, so why would you expect to see them out on the streets?
    5. They're all bad little boys and girls, safely locked away where they can't do any harm, so why would you expect to see them out on the streets?
    6. You see those bubbles in the lakes, rivers, streams, and ocean? Who do you think is making those bubbles? If you try real hard when you're fishing, you might catch one...
    7. They are the gankers in Cyrodil that you never see.
    8. You know those meetbags fired by catapults? Where do you think we get the ammunition?
    9. <fill in your suspicion>

    9. They are all members of the Dark Brotherhood, which has not been introduced to the game yet.
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  • nalimoleb14_ESO
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    Taken from the best comment ever on the forums:
    Skyrim was the first ES game to have children. They probably didn't put children in because they serve no purpose. They can't fight, your not allowed to kill them, the just annoy you. Plus putting children into a war torn ravaged and bloody land would definitely catch more negative attention from the media who think games are going to make us mass murder people instead of playing the game and realizing it just makes us want more Cheetos and Mt Dew.

    Seriously though, I do agree. Even though the children's dialogue in Skyrim was annoying as hell (annoying enough to almost consider downloading the killable kids mod), but it does make the game more realistic.
  • ers101284b14_ESO
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    Taken from the best comment ever on the forums:
    Skyrim was the first ES game to have children. They probably didn't put children in because they serve no purpose. They can't fight, your not allowed to kill them, the just annoy you. Plus putting children into a war torn ravaged and bloody land would definitely catch more negative attention from the media who think games are going to make us mass murder people instead of playing the game and realizing it just makes us want more Cheetos and Mt Dew.

    Seriously though, I do agree. Even though the children's dialogue in Skyrim was annoying as hell (annoying enough to almost consider downloading the killable kids mod), but it does make the game more realistic.

    Someone corrected me and said Dagerfall had kids also. I never played Daggerfall so i dont know if its true. But I think M'aiq answered all of our questions back in oblivion.

    M'aiq believes kids are our future but does not want them ruining our fun.
  • Jack-0
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    Children are nothing but annoying nuisances in videogames (and sometimes IRL), I don't want to see them in ESO!
  • SFBryan18
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    The reason is simple: They didn't care. I would like to see random NPC children scattered around the world. Perhaps only inside cities, or maybe all over. I have not heard one reasonable opinion about why it is a bad idea other than the time it takes to put them in. Here we discuss how children don't exist as if that were something incredibly groundbreaking but it's actually an area which is far behind in development. With all the work they put into the world, there should not only be children, there should also be babies, and animal young. I simply believe if you are going to put millions of dollars into developing a realistic fantasy, you should try to make is as believable as possible.
  • Gyudan
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  • Reverb
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    Many games have kids, and it is a little weird to not see any at all in Tamriel, but if they would be near as annoying as the kids in Skyrim I would rather not have them.

    Also, reading the reviews above made me realize how much I miss decapitation animation.
    Edited by Reverb on December 12, 2014 6:14PM
    Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche
  • cote-bmsb16_ESO
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    Rather have no kids than immortal kids in the justice system.
  • bedlom
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    Because they were annoying in Skyrim, Nord kids with American accents... Weird.

    We don't need em, and I am sure the information used to create them can be used for something so much better.
    Edited by bedlom on December 12, 2014 6:01PM
  • MornaBaine
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    SFBryan18 wrote: »
    The reason is simple: They didn't care. I would like to see random NPC children scattered around the world. Perhaps only inside cities, or maybe all over. I have not heard one reasonable opinion about why it is a bad idea other than the time it takes to put them in. Here we discuss how children don't exist as if that were something incredibly groundbreaking but it's actually an area which is far behind in development. With all the work they put into the world, there should not only be children, there should also be babies, and animal young. I simply believe if you are going to put millions of dollars into developing a realistic fantasy, you should try to make is as believable as possible.

    Right? They felt "realism" was important enough to create and place probably upwards of 50 animal types (cows, pigs, chickens, cats, dogs, frogs, various birds, snakes, rabbits, foxes, deer, etc) but not one kid? C'mon ZOS, really?
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

  • driosketch
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    Taken from the best comment ever on the forums:
    Skyrim was the first ES game to have children. They probably didn't put children in because they serve no purpose. They can't fight, your not allowed to kill them, the just annoy you. Plus putting children into a war torn ravaged and bloody land would definitely catch more negative attention from the media who think games are going to make us mass murder people instead of playing the game and realizing it just makes us want more Cheetos and Mt Dew.

    Seriously though, I do agree. Even though the children's dialogue in Skyrim was annoying as hell (annoying enough to almost consider downloading the killable kids mod), but it does make the game more realistic.

    Someone corrected me and said Dagerfall had kids also. I never played Daggerfall so i dont know if its true. But I think M'aiq answered all of our questions back in oblivion.

    M'aiq believes kids are our future but does not want them ruining our fun.

    It is true, but to be fair TES II was sprite based and not 3d models. And that's the reason there aren't kids in ESO, the extra work. It not some conspiracy, or due to game rating. Look at the Skyrim kids above. Boy or girl, doesn't it look like they all have the same basic face, and they're all human too. ESO couldn't sneak by with the same trick since it covers non-human lands as well.

    I expect children will be added at some point down the line. (I also expect we'll see people complain when it happens about pointless immersion being added instead of working on x, y, and z.)
    Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
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  • Morshire
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    MornaBaine wrote: »
    This topic pops up every couple weeks...and the answer is always the same. If you had interactable children npcs that could be killed there would be a flamestorm (not my first word choice, but meh, they have a filter). So, easiest solution, no children npc in game.

    MANY other MMOs have children NPCs, including the M rated Age of Conan. They are simply unkillable. No "flamestorm" has occurred there. And THAT game has bared b00bies! LOL So I think ZOS could risk it. It's just too weird without them.

    [Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

    Forget the children, let's add the b00bies!!!!!! :p
    Follow me if I advance, Kill me if I retreat, Avenge me if I die.

    When this immediate evil power has been defeated, we shall not yet have won the long battle with the elemental barbarities. Another evil, it may be an invisible adversary, will attempt, again, and yet again, to destroy our frail civilization. Is it true, I wonder, that the only way to escape a war is to be in it?

    If I die, you are forgiven, If I live, I will kill you.
  • Morshire
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    On a more serious note.....okay back on topic. LOTRO has children in the game and there is even interaction. Complete quests by playing the kids games. While not all of it was my speed, I am old and kids are ALOT of work, I do think that there is a feel to the game that is lacking without their - merry little voices (no need for the moderator).
    Edited by Morshire on December 12, 2014 8:57PM
    Follow me if I advance, Kill me if I retreat, Avenge me if I die.

    When this immediate evil power has been defeated, we shall not yet have won the long battle with the elemental barbarities. Another evil, it may be an invisible adversary, will attempt, again, and yet again, to destroy our frail civilization. Is it true, I wonder, that the only way to escape a war is to be in it?

    If I die, you are forgiven, If I live, I will kill you.
  • IrishGirlGamer
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    MornaBaine wrote: »
    SFBryan18 wrote: »
    The reason is simple: They didn't care. I would like to see random NPC children scattered around the world. Perhaps only inside cities, or maybe all over. I have not heard one reasonable opinion about why it is a bad idea other than the time it takes to put them in. Here we discuss how children don't exist as if that were something incredibly groundbreaking but it's actually an area which is far behind in development. With all the work they put into the world, there should not only be children, there should also be babies, and animal young. I simply believe if you are going to put millions of dollars into developing a realistic fantasy, you should try to make is as believable as possible.

    Right? They felt "realism" was important enough to create and place probably upwards of 50 animal types (cows, pigs, chickens, cats, dogs, frogs, various birds, snakes, rabbits, foxes, deer, etc) but not one kid? C'mon ZOS, really?

    I have to agree. Yet I remember when Skyrim was released and all the hate - yes, there was hate - because some Level 35 dovahkiin wasn't inspiring sufficient fear in kids.

    I think the funniest, for me, was the somewhat well-known guy from England who owns/runs a well-known TES modding site who went on a fifteen minute video rampage about why kids don't belong in TES games. He just kept going on and on and on ... until I was like: "If you ever have kids, someone should send this video to Child Protective Services ..."

    Maybe those people work for Zenimax now ...
    Edited by IrishGirlGamer on December 12, 2014 8:47PM
    Valar Morghulis.

    Someday I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull. Arya Stark

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