Reflective Scales

Francescolg

4 times reflection is still way too many..! You simply recast it and reuse it.

This (omg nooo, it's so severe..) "nurf" won't change anything.. 5+ people won't get a DK down with weapon attacks, even when he doesn't use Reflective Scales, if he uses the correct build.

DKs still outshine as tank or as fire-mage in this game.
No more nurfs pls! I play DK myself (This is no joke!)

david.haypreub18_ESO

True, it is still more than 4x as good as Defensive Posture, since it reflects all types of projectiles (whereas Defensive Posture only reflects spell projectiles). But to nerf Dragonknights so that they are only 4x as good as the other classes would still be an improvement.

Galalin

Francescolg wrote: »

4 times reflection is still way too many..! You simply recast it and reuse it.

This (omg nooo, it's so severe..) "nurf" won't change anything.. 5+ people won't get a DK down with weapon attacks, even when he doesn't use Reflective Scales, if he uses the correct build.

DKs still outshine as tank or as fire-mage in this game.
No more nurfs pls! I play DK myself (This is no joke!)

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

True, it is still more than 4x as good as Defensive Posture, since it reflects all types of projectiles (whereas Defensive Posture only reflects spell projectiles). But to nerf Dragonknights so that they are only 4x as good as the other classes would still be an improvement.

Comical at best

kijima

I ran the numbers and what I found is interesting to say the least. Also, this is the sixteenth thread about reflective scales... Which by itself isn't interesting, but becomes more interesting when you consider the next point.

As it turns out, DK's are not 4x times better than every other class, they are actually only 3.14159 x better than all other classes.

Now, I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but why is it that everything points to pi when you talk about DK's?

Galalin

kijima wrote: »

I ran the numbers and what I found is interesting to say the least. Also, this is the sixteenth thread about reflective scales... Which by itself isn't interesting, but becomes more interesting when you consider the next point.

As it turns out, DK's are not 4x times better than every other class, they are actually only 3.14159 x better than all other classes.

Now, I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but why is it that everything points to pi when you talk about DK's?

Mmmmm pie.

Etaniel

The good thing about this type of thread though is that some people actually took the advice to L2P. I'm getting more and more people using resto heavy attacks and non projectile attacks at me, and guess what : it's working !

Whether nerfing RS is justifiable isn't the issue. The issue is that today i can stand in the middle of 15 archers, not because i'm "op", but because they are stupid enough to keep shooting arrows when my scales are clearly up, thus effectively getting themselves to low health (if not killing themselves completely), giving me the opportunity to finish them off with one whip and also feeding me tons of ultimate.

Nerf RS if you want, it won't stop peasants from getting stomped

Rylana

Etaniel wrote: »

The good thing about this type of thread though is that some people actually took the advice to L2P. I'm getting more and more people using resto heavy attacks and non projectile attacks at me, and guess what : it's working !

Whether nerfing RS is justifiable isn't the issue. The issue is that today i can stand in the middle of 15 archers, not because i'm "op", but because they are stupid enough to keep shooting arrows when my scales are clearly up, thus effectively getting themselves to low health (if not killing themselves completely), giving me the opportunity to finish them off with one whip and also feeding me tons of ultimate.

Nerf RS if you want, it won't stop peasants from getting stomped

This is the greatest summary of all time. Especially the bolded part.

Kromus

Rylana wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

The good thing about this type of thread though is that some people actually took the advice to L2P. I'm getting more and more people using resto heavy attacks and non projectile attacks at me, and guess what : it's working !

Whether nerfing RS is justifiable isn't the issue. The issue is that today i can stand in the middle of 15 archers, not because i'm "op", but because they are stupid enough to keep shooting arrows when my scales are clearly up, thus effectively getting themselves to low health (if not killing themselves completely), giving me the opportunity to finish them off with one whip and also feeding me tons of ultimate.

Nerf RS if you want, it won't stop peasants from getting stomped

This is the greatest summary of all time. Especially the bolded part.

^^ guess DKs expect for archers to throw flowers at them instead arrows, because they are royalty

Rylana

Kromus wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

The good thing about this type of thread though is that some people actually took the advice to L2P. I'm getting more and more people using resto heavy attacks and non projectile attacks at me, and guess what : it's working !

Whether nerfing RS is justifiable isn't the issue. The issue is that today i can stand in the middle of 15 archers, not because i'm "op", but because they are stupid enough to keep shooting arrows when my scales are clearly up, thus effectively getting themselves to low health (if not killing themselves completely), giving me the opportunity to finish them off with one whip and also feeding me tons of ultimate.

Nerf RS if you want, it won't stop peasants from getting stomped

This is the greatest summary of all time. Especially the bolded part.

^^ guess DKs expect for archers to throw flowers at them instead arrows, because they are royalty

Or how about archers have a secondary weapon to fight those pesky Royal DKs. No one weapon should ever be the only thing you need to fight anyone you face.

Kromus

Not sure

Rylana wrote: »

Kromus wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

The good thing about this type of thread though is that some people actually took the advice to L2P. I'm getting more and more people using resto heavy attacks and non projectile attacks at me, and guess what : it's working !

Whether nerfing RS is justifiable isn't the issue. The issue is that today i can stand in the middle of 15 archers, not because i'm "op", but because they are stupid enough to keep shooting arrows when my scales are clearly up, thus effectively getting themselves to low health (if not killing themselves completely), giving me the opportunity to finish them off with one whip and also feeding me tons of ultimate.

Nerf RS if you want, it won't stop peasants from getting stomped

This is the greatest summary of all time. Especially the bolded part.

^^ guess DKs expect for archers to throw flowers at them instead arrows, because they are royalty

Or how about archers have a secondary weapon to fight those pesky Royal DKs. No one weapon should ever be the only thing you need to fight anyone you face.

Not sure what that has to do with my comment and bolded part, but ok.

Etaniel

Kromus wrote: »

^^ guess DKs expect for archers to throw flowers at them instead arrows, because they are royalty

I wouldn't mind some flowers.... as long as they are reflectable

Columba

NBs - use your fear, the your cc's to kill the reflectophiles. Not that difficult.

pmn100b16_ESO

Columba wrote: »

NBs - use your fear, the your cc's to kill the reflectophiles. Not that difficult.

I'd guess that about 95% of DKs I see in the middle of a bunch of players die to the first fear. But I rarely see any other NBs use it.

Lava_Croft

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

NBs - use your fear, the your cc's to kill the reflectophiles. Not that difficult.

I'd guess that about 95% of DKs I see in the middle of a bunch of players die to the first fear. But I rarely see any other NBs use it.

Most DK's want you to change your tactics because of their Reflective Scales, but refuse to do so themselves when it comes to Fear.

It's simply awesome.

Nicko_Lps

Francescolg wrote: »

4 times reflection is still way too many..! You simply recast it and reuse it.

This (omg nooo, it's so severe..) "nurf" won't change anything.. 5+ people won't get a DK down with weapon attacks, even when he doesn't use Reflective Scales, if he uses the correct build.

DKs still outshine as tank or as fire-mage in this game.
No more nurfs pls! I play DK myself (This is no joke!)

You play dk?
4 reflects are too many?

The most pathetic troll post in this forum section.
We have a winner(or just another whiner..lol)

Nicko_Lps

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

True, it is still more than 4x as good as Defensive Posture, since it reflects all types of projectiles (whereas Defensive Posture only reflects spell projectiles). But to nerf Dragonknights so that they are only 4x as good as the other classes would still be an improvement.

Non able to L2P case #2 at the row.

I really like how you agree with the one that posted his amazing idea before you and hes trying to convince us that hes a dk too.

Galalin

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

True, it is still more than 4x as good as Defensive Posture, since it reflects all types of projectiles (whereas Defensive Posture only reflects spell projectiles). But to nerf Dragonknights so that they are only 4x as good as the other classes would still be an improvement.

Non able to L2P case #2 at the row.

I really like how you agree with the one that posted his amazing idea before you and hes trying to convince us that hes a dk too.

This ^^^^

Sanct16

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

True, it is still more than 4x as good as Defensive Posture, since it reflects all types of projectiles (whereas Defensive Posture only reflects spell projectiles). But to nerf Dragonknights so that they are only 4x as good as the other classes would still be an improvement.

True. Especially as Reflective Scale has a far longer duration and is not as easy to spot as Defensive Stance. I mean, Defenstive Stance doesn't even have a strong passive effect.

k2blader

Sanct16 wrote: »

Or we just leave the ability as it is right now. There is nothing wrong with it in my opinion. It is an easy to counter defensive ability that punishes stupidity. ... And its still quite easily possible to kill a DK. Spread out, range him with unblockable heavy attacks, enjoy dead DK.

While it is stupid to keep shooting reflecting spells or projectiles at a scale-spamming DK, it's stupid that one ability has such potential to shut down other range-dependent classes from using actual class-centric abilities and requiring them to fall back on something like staff heavy attacks. Yes it would be possible for several decently played folks to dance in a merry ring around a lone DK using staff heavies to eventually kill him, but the only easy enjoyment would be for spectators gawking at the lovely radial light show.

Sanct16

k2blader wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Or we just leave the ability as it is right now. There is nothing wrong with it in my opinion. It is an easy to counter defensive ability that punishes stupidity. ... And its still quite easily possible to kill a DK. Spread out, range him with unblockable heavy attacks, enjoy dead DK.

While it is stupid to keep shooting reflecting spells or projectiles at a scale-spamming DK, it's stupid that one ability has such potential to shut down other range-dependent classes from using actual class-centric abilities and requiring them to fall back on something like staff heavy attacks. Yes it would be possible for several decently played folks to dance in a merry ring around a lone DK using staff heavies to eventually kill him, but the only easy enjoyment would be for spectators gawking at the lovely radial light show.

Which classes are range dependent? Nightblade has many melee abilities. Templar has many melee abilites. So there is no problem for those classes.

Only Sorerors dont have melee abilites. Luckily they have Mages Fury and Velocious Curse to do damage through reflect.

What would actually really be stupid is to have a melee dependent class without any counter to ranged abilites.

Kromus

Sanct16 wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Or we just leave the ability as it is right now. There is nothing wrong with it in my opinion. It is an easy to counter defensive ability that punishes stupidity. ... And its still quite easily possible to kill a DK. Spread out, range him with unblockable heavy attacks, enjoy dead DK.

While it is stupid to keep shooting reflecting spells or projectiles at a scale-spamming DK, it's stupid that one ability has such potential to shut down other range-dependent classes from using actual class-centric abilities and requiring them to fall back on something like staff heavy attacks. Yes it would be possible for several decently played folks to dance in a merry ring around a lone DK using staff heavies to eventually kill him, but the only easy enjoyment would be for spectators gawking at the lovely radial light show.

Which classes are range dependent? Nightblade has many melee abilities. Templar has many melee abilites. So there is no problem for those classes.

Only Sorerors dont have melee abilites. Luckily they have Mages Fury and Velocious Curse to do damage through reflect.

What would actually really be stupid is to have a melee dependent class without any counter to ranged abilites.

Its fine to have counter, even strong counter, but to have "god" mode button is not ok, unless DK is only class meant to be "tank" in this game. As a "tank" melee templar I can wrack havoc in first line of fights, but EVERY damaging ability placed on me will damage me (or my shield), no matter is it melee or ranged and its same with other two classes, while only DKs have ability to completely ignore crapload of incoming damage from multiple (infinite) sources (plus reflective part). I really don't understand how DKs don't "understand" that part. Also, due to Reflective Scales DKs didn't even feel spell penetration trait/patch that made survival of other classes a "bit" harder.

Here's your last line from templar pov...
What would actually really be stupid is to have a healing dependent class without any guaranteed self-heal.

I'll repeat once more, since DKs keep throwing "quite easily possible to kill a DK" that this is not a thread whether is possible to kill DK, as all classes/builds are killable, but if you need lets say 2 minutes to kill a DK "tank" while it would take no longer than 10-15 seconds to kill other class in same role and situation, than something is terribly wrong with class balance.

Etaniel

Kromus wrote: »

I'll repeat once more, since DKs keep throwing "quite easily possible to kill a DK" that this is not a thread whether is possible to kill DK, as all classes/builds are killable, but if you need lets say 2 minutes to kill a DK "tank" while it would take no longer than 10-15 seconds to kill other class in same role and situation, than something is terribly wrong with class balance.

If you take 2 min to kill a dk 1v1, it's fine. Any class can duel for a least 2 min. So i assume you're talking about 1vX. If i can tank 2 min a group of pugs on my dk, i know for a fact it is possible for a nightblade or a templar to do the same, knowing very good players of each classe than pull it off. If i try tanking a group of decent players (smart enough to not use projectiles on my flappity flaps), trust me i won't last 2 min.

Yes reflective scales is god mode, against projectile users. But then immovable is godmode against stuns, blazing shield is god mode against melee, nb pets and fear is god mode against block casters and so on.

I find it perfectly normal that some classes do better in different areas, otherwise what's the point in having different classes?

Nijjion

I can't wait for fear and blazing shield to be nerfed. It's only time once DKs 'OP' ability to get nerfed that other classes abilities will.

TBH they should all get nerfed at the same time but seems like a lot of hate on DKs when it should be spread quite evenly at the moment.

Lava_Croft

Haha, Fear is god mode? What?

Fear is life, not god mode.

pmn100b16_ESO

Its funny how anything that interferes with DKs taking on several players at once is labeled as OP.

I'm standing in the middle of loads of players holding block, they're all beating on me with melee attacks like we recommend, my stamina is going down, and I don't have enough left to break a cc. zomg nerf fear.

pmn100b16_ESO

Etaniel wrote: »

Kromus wrote: »

I'll repeat once more, since DKs keep throwing "quite easily possible to kill a DK" that this is not a thread whether is possible to kill DK, as all classes/builds are killable, but if you need lets say 2 minutes to kill a DK "tank" while it would take no longer than 10-15 seconds to kill other class in same role and situation, than something is terribly wrong with class balance.

If you take 2 min to kill a dk 1v1, it's fine. Any class can duel for a least 2 min. So i assume you're talking about 1vX. If i can tank 2 min a group of pugs on my dk, i know for a fact it is possible for a nightblade or a templar to do the same, knowing very good players of each classe than pull it off. If i try tanking a group of decent players (smart enough to not use projectiles on my flappity flaps), trust me i won't last 2 min.

Yes reflective scales is god mode, against projectile users. But then immovable is godmode against stuns, blazing shield is god mode against melee, nb pets and fear is god mode against block casters and so on.

I find it perfectly normal that some classes do better in different areas, otherwise what's the point in having different classes?

You know how to counter a sap spamming NB? Move out the range of it = dead NB, in seconds, cause we can't reflect all projectiles, and don't have any self heal or shield. If we're not hitting anything, we don't get heals. You have to be in a lucky situational position to pull it off. Not quite in the same tank league as a DK. Not even close. Now a sorcerer tank, they're something else.

xarguideb17_ESO

There are people who shoot a reflecting DK, get hit in the knee with their own arrow and start crying.
Then there are people who understand that you can't kill everyone by spamming snipe, sometimes you have to adapt depending on the opponent.
Which one are you?

Etaniel

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

You know how to counter a sap spamming NB? Move out the range of it = dead NB, in seconds, cause we can't reflect all projectiles, and don't have any self heal or shield. If we're not hitting anything, we don't get heals. You have to be in a lucky situational position to pull it off. Not quite in the same tank league as a DK. Not even close. Now a sorcerer tank, they're something else.

Being in a situational position isn't luck, it's part of the play

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Haha, Fear is god mode? What?

Fear is life, not god mode.

I didn't say that fear is god mode, i said that if you consider scales to be god mode invincibility, than you have to consider balzing shield fear etc to be also god mode, which they are not, like scales.

I hate fear, doesn't mean i want to see it nerfed.

pmn100b16_ESO

Etaniel wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

You know how to counter a sap spamming NB? Move out the range of it = dead NB, in seconds, cause we can't reflect all projectiles, and don't have any self heal or shield. If we're not hitting anything, we don't get heals. You have to be in a lucky situational position to pull it off. Not quite in the same tank league as a DK. Not even close. Now a sorcerer tank, they're something else.

Being in a situational position isn't luck, it's part of the play

Yeah because a DK needs to be in the equivalent of a small room to be an effective tank. Lets not pretend a sap spamming NB is anywhere near the equivalent a 'tank' as a DK.

pmn100b16_ESO

Etaniel wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Haha, Fear is god mode? What?

Fear is life, not god mode.

I didn't say that fear is god mode, i said that if you consider scales to be god mode invincibility, than you have to consider balzing shield fear etc to be also god mode, which they are not, like scales.

I hate fear, doesn't mean i want to see it nerfed.

So you think that a skill that negates, I'd guess 50%+ of all offensive skills in the game, and not only negates, but reflects back for added damage is equivalent to a single cc skill that you click two buttons to break! lol, amazing.