Soooo who's not leaving the game ?

Sacadon

Not going anywhere till I see how they've redesigned the game via champion system as it's their first real attempt to get large scale PvP right since beta. Since release they've only implemented bandaids and focused on other things.

ZOS has a scale and performance design flaw on their hands. Nobody fixes this overnight or even in a few months, even if the execs would let them. Yeah they knew about this during beta. Hate the execs for this because the devs always and only want to fix these things. I've been in both shoes (dev & exec). This is a Paul Sage business strategy issue, plain and simple. It's not just him making the call, but he gets the accountability still.

I watched some vids of gameplay on Terra. I get that everyone is different and sincerely believe that's a good thing. For me, Terra looks and feels cheesy and cartoon-like. It could have the greatest game mechanics ever and largest battles with zero lag and I'd only feel stupid playing it. But I'm glad it's working for others.

Please share what other games come anywhere close to what we've with this one. I do hate the lag, and it's unacceptable. I get it in every massive keep battles which are easily about 1/3 of my playtime... Which is on NA-TB late evenings. (BTW, because I work and have a family and my guild mates the same or school. Not sure when the "night capping whiners" expect us to play. It is when we play so please join us if you're able to). Anyway, the other 2/3 of my game time is a frakin blast and I'd pay $20/mo for it too. I know the value of $ is diff for others though.

TheBull

Oookay this is getting a bit out of hand imo. Reminds of the guy who tried to take his guild to WoW.

better yet this guy

JaJaLuka

well it's out of hand now... O_o

Subtomik

The issue with "night capping" isn't the issue of playing at night, it's flipping the entire map one color with little to no opposition. Then the prime time players log on with massive disadvantages and getting out of their gates a task and it gets old.

Night capers don't understand this because they log in to a usually well balanced map that they leave destroyed.

Agrippa_Invisus

Subtomik wrote: »

The issue with "night capping" isn't the issue of playing at night, it's flipping the entire map one color with little to no opposition. Then the prime time players log on with massive disadvantages and getting out of their gates a task and it gets old.

Night capers don't understand this because they log in to a usually well balanced map that they leave destroyed.

It's logging in to see your gates open or just owning a keep or three. It's starting in the same place (the beginning) every single day. It's going 'Ok, let's try to capture Rayles/KC/BB again to start' for the fiftieth time. It's fighting an opponent that has full buffs, an emperor to back them up, is organized, and you have nothing but a small team and the hope to get some even fights before the day ends with the zergball descending on you.

I know what it's like.

Niastissa

FluffiestOne wrote: »

WoW is looking mighty fine...

LOL you must be joking. WOW . Compared to WOW The Elder Scrolls Online is a sparkling gem of perfection.

Marthenil

Only thing keeping me as of now is the fact that I fell in love with my character (WHOEVER MADE ALTMER MODELS NEEDS A RAISE, caps for emphasis) and my beloved guild. Otherwise, I would have quit. Not for another MMO, as there's nothing that's much better, mind.
Reason? Lack of things to do. Or rather, lack of motivation for things to do. You can only do stuff so much without tangible rewards before you realize that there's no reason to keep doing them.

PvP? No thanks, wild FOTM guar chases do not interest me. I'd rather play a moba or an FPS if I wanted good quality PvP.

So I guess it's a really bittersweet relationship I have with ESO. Love the art, the style, even the combat. But some game mechanics are in need of serious change.

Pathfinder

I am also staying for now, but only because of my guildmates. I play on thorn NA until it lags out then I move to Haderus. I have been leveling a new toon to keep it interesting, but the imbalances\bugs\gameplay in PvP are wearing on me.

Reverb

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Subtomik wrote: »

The issue with "night capping" isn't the issue of playing at night, it's flipping the entire map one color with little to no opposition. Then the prime time players log on with massive disadvantages and getting out of their gates a task and it gets old.

Night capers don't understand this because they log in to a usually well balanced map that they leave destroyed.

It's logging in to see your gates open or just owning a keep or three. It's starting in the same place (the beginning) every single day. It's going 'Ok, let's try to capture Rayles/KC/BB again to start' for the fiftieth time. It's fighting an opponent that has full buffs, an emperor to back them up, is organized, and you have nothing but a small team and the hope to get some even fights before the day ends with the zergball descending on you.

I know what it's like.

To that point, I'd rather ask here than spend the time to login just to be frustrated and shut down. Perhaps I'll just do this every morning:

Is every NA campaign except bwb painted a single colour again today?

TheBull

Reverb wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Subtomik wrote: »

The issue with "night capping" isn't the issue of playing at night, it's flipping the entire map one color with little to no opposition. Then the prime time players log on with massive disadvantages and getting out of their gates a task and it gets old.

Night capers don't understand this because they log in to a usually well balanced map that they leave destroyed.

It's logging in to see your gates open or just owning a keep or three. It's starting in the same place (the beginning) every single day. It's going 'Ok, let's try to capture Rayles/KC/BB again to start' for the fiftieth time. It's fighting an opponent that has full buffs, an emperor to back them up, is organized, and you have nothing but a small team and the hope to get some even fights before the day ends with the zergball descending on you.

I know what it's like.

To that point, I'd rather ask here than spend the time to login just to be frustrated and shut down. Perhaps I'll just do this every morning:

Is every NA campaign except bwb painted a single colour again today?

WTB 4v4v4 Arena.

Pchela

Reverb wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Subtomik wrote: »

The issue with "night capping" isn't the issue of playing at night, it's flipping the entire map one color with little to no opposition. Then the prime time players log on with massive disadvantages and getting out of their gates a task and it gets old.

Night capers don't understand this because they log in to a usually well balanced map that they leave destroyed.

It's logging in to see your gates open or just owning a keep or three. It's starting in the same place (the beginning) every single day. It's going 'Ok, let's try to capture Rayles/KC/BB again to start' for the fiftieth time. It's fighting an opponent that has full buffs, an emperor to back them up, is organized, and you have nothing but a small team and the hope to get some even fights before the day ends with the zergball descending on you.

I know what it's like.

To that point, I'd rather ask here than spend the time to login just to be frustrated and shut down. Perhaps I'll just do this every morning:

Is every NA campaign except bwb painted a single colour again today?

As of 9am Est, no. Map looks pretty even, EP starting to get pushed on.

Thechemicals

My main 2 guilds are very active and i recently started a pvp guild. The lag is not that bad for me but a few guild members do have that problem. One is in Canada in a small town and the others have 4+ old gen gcards.

Davadin

@r3dbeaver - Davadin.

Here to stay.

I mean, after 1.5, the lag is really much better anyway, and considering the amount of players on my screen, a bit of lag is acceptable at times.

That being said, it IS extremely annoying and I'd gladly skip new contents if this can go work on first.

And I enjoy playing the PvE content too. And the stuff coming every major patch? Always excited by it.

Sacadon

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Subtomik wrote: »

The issue with "night capping" isn't the issue of playing at night, it's flipping the entire map one color with little to no opposition. Then the prime time players log on with massive disadvantages and getting out of their gates a task and it gets old.

Night capers don't understand this because they log in to a usually well balanced map that they leave destroyed.

It's logging in to see your gates open or just owning a keep or three. It's starting in the same place (the beginning) every single day. It's going 'Ok, let's try to capture Rayles/KC/BB again to start' for the fiftieth time. It's fighting an opponent that has full buffs, an emperor to back them up, is organized, and you have nothing but a small team and the hope to get some even fights before the day ends with the zergball descending on you.

I know what it's like.

I really do get the frustration over nightcapping.

The times that myself and guild mates login and see the opposing faction has taken everything back while we were at work or school. We don't like it, because we lost all the effort we invested the previous day only to come back and start from scratch again. This leaves us with the thought of "what's the point" etc... etc... It's demotivating sometimes. I personally have to dig deep on some days to get excited about taking it back again, but ultimately I usually do.

I'm open to some ideas on how we could self-organize to improve upon this, but the issue is going to be all of those that either don't know or don't care to do so. Factions with very large numbers of pugs like AD are going to fail the most at it. Some pugs are great btw, but I think you get my meaning.

This is largely a ZOS problem to solve IMO in terms of campaign management including the low pop bonus which is just plain BS.

However, thoughts on scheduling guild vs. guild times? I don't mean swords at effing dawn (would be fun though and maybe less lag if we do it away from keeps), but I mean just trying to organize the times in which we engage. This may be doable. At least then we'd have a better sense for the "winner" when a group wipes and who cares about what color the map is (in this case). I know the end of campaign rewards won't reflect the true winner though, but ultimately I play for fun and this may in fact be. ???

We really don't expect you to leave our stuff alone when we're at work or school. So please know that we're sincerely NOT trying to intentionally screw opposing factions when we take stuff in the evening... We just don't want to sit around and do nothing. BTW, lately between 5 and midnight GMT-5 there's been quite a bit of resistance from all sides on TB.

EDIT: Just to avoid confusion, resistance to our PvP activities are absolutely considered in our actions. To do differently would be plain stupid. But, myself and guild mates are not intentionally saying let's eff these guys while they're asleep. We just don't do that. Like I said we can try and organize something in the early evenings, but I know that you have to sleep and don't expect you to slam red bulls all night .

jkirchner71ub17_ESO2

Subtomik wrote: »

Unsubbed, currently got about 2 weeks left, we will see what happens in that time, and were the guild stands.

So far its not looking good lol.

Remaining but have crawled back into PvE more as the lag is just sad in Cyrodiil. Really was disheartening reading a post by Zeni right after Update 6 landed and we all hammered the forums over the massive lag issues and having them say Cyrodiil may never be lag free. Mind you this was after they gave us that checklist of things they wanted US to check before complaining about the lag - what a PR mess that was for them as they tried to deflect the real issues on to the subscribers.

Man this does not bode well. Even though I'm AD I love fighting you guys, watching duels or dueling with you all. Still have immense respect for No Mercy and what you guys do and have done for the game.

Armitas

Never even considered leaving. I don't play on Thornblade unless I have to so I avoid the lag. There will always be perceived imbalances no matter where you go.

Thechemicals

Why would i leave the most epic game ever? 2 words "batman leap" thats enough to stay subbed at least another year.

wafcatb14_ESO

Still debating it really it`s the closest to DAOC and warhammer on the market . the money isn`t any issue 1 days pay covers a 2 year sub , hell i paid for 2 years to a game once and never even loged on. but kept it active incase i felt like it.

But yes they need to either hire whoever they fired that knows how to fix it, because it took them 3 weeks after the shadow/lighting patch to try and fix the Lag it caused,

when any good company would have seen the issues the patch caused and do a rollback prior to the patch , not leave the patch as is for almost a month.

O don`t think they have a clue what to do . so they are ignoring it until enough people leave that do AVA, and the issue corrects its self.

Sacadon

wafcatb14_ESO wrote: »

O don`t think they have a clue what to do . so they are ignoring it until enough people leave that do AVA, and the issue corrects its self.

May be right about this... I believe the devs know exactly, because there are greater technology challenges in terms of scale and performance (client & server) solved in other businesses. Instead, I believe they look at a pie chart with the die-hard lore players (PvE) being the same or bigger than those PvP players and say something similar to this:

"Hmmm we've a ton of money invested in the console and have to realize that revenue rather than stop now... these PvEers are committed in both heart and mind to the game and what it represents. The PvPers are the most aware of our game flaws, have higher expectations and few within that group are "sticky" in terms of the lore and elder scrolls, rather they want good battles. So since we've limited money and resources we should invest in retaining the PvE customers as our best chance as an organization. Then while we're rewriting the foundation of our game via champion system we'll try to address our performance issues and hope that we keep as many of PvPers as we can, hoping that when it's fixed they may come back.. but if not, then so be it... since our biggest and most emotionally attached group are the PvEers."

I've been in the room, again both dev and leadership side and this is how it usually goes down. It's truly unfortunate, but to keep a business with limited resources and time afloat, such decisions/sacrifices must be made. Personally if this does keep ESO afloat such that PvP is epic eventually, I'm glad it's going down this way. A bit twisted I suppose.

eventide03b14a_ESO

There are a lot of promising features and updates around the corner and that's enough to keep me staying. That and the fact that there are really no other comparable options in the fantasy MMO genre. I'm confident that once they release the console versions they will finally turn their attention back to the PC. I really feel like the reason they have been so sloppy with QA and neglecting the problems with lag is because they are simply spread too thin.

Thechemicals

Anyone believe they are using contractors to fix current coding/bug issues? This ussually means they do less fixing because the cost of outside help is expensive. My job does that and we have neglected many issues due to costs.

Sacadon

Thechemicals wrote: »

Anyone believe they are using contractors to fix current coding/bug issues? This ussually means they do less fixing because the cost of outside help is expensive. My job does that and we have neglected many issues due to costs.

Yes, I believe this... at a minimum I believe their QA is contractor and very likely offshore. The feasibility of QA for dev being offshore these days is truly there if you can manage it properly which is the difficult part due to communication issues.

I think that we perceive neglect because the nature of the bugs we want fixed are so intertwined in the core set of code that 1) they dare not touch it due to risk levels of having non-senior devs touch the more complex pieces of code 2) they're already rewriting it for champion and justice system (I believe this is the main reason).

Remember when they tried to remove vamp passive stacking with night silence. Stealth function has never been the same. Either stealth is so pervasive throughout the code base and/or its design was an after thought so the maintainability of it is poor, hence the easy F-ups when changing it.

Sacadon

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I really feel like the reason they have been so sloppy with QA and neglecting the problems with lag is because they are simply spread too thin.

Yes, this... they're human and most do in fact give a sh@t, and are not entirely stupid. exceptions exist of course

Idhaleya

I am back after three month break and the new things make me a lot of fun. I will continue playing it and want to test the justice patch in january / february

Sacadon

bees83 wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Subtomik wrote: »

The issue with "night capping" isn't the issue of playing at night, it's flipping the entire map one color with little to no opposition. Then the prime time players log on with massive disadvantages and getting out of their gates a task and it gets old.

Night capers don't understand this because they log in to a usually well balanced map that they leave destroyed.

It's logging in to see your gates open or just owning a keep or three. It's starting in the same place (the beginning) every single day. It's going 'Ok, let's try to capture Rayles/KC/BB again to start' for the fiftieth time. It's fighting an opponent that has full buffs, an emperor to back them up, is organized, and you have nothing but a small team and the hope to get some even fights before the day ends with the zergball descending on you.

I know what it's like.

To that point, I'd rather ask here than spend the time to login just to be frustrated and shut down. Perhaps I'll just do this every morning:

Is every NA campaign except bwb painted a single colour again today?

As of 9am Est, no. Map looks pretty even, EP starting to get pushed on.

May not need to login to check campaign status... http://esostats.com

Although, it used to be up to date within a few hours, but looks like less are running the add on that updates it.

So who's going to give up their buff campaign so that players can align to same playing times? Yep, I'd be a minority on this one... Besides the PvEers are keeping ESO afloat right now. Maybe that's why Wheeler hasn't killed the buffs in PvE yet.

eventide03b14a_ESO

If they had simply stuck to this being exclusive for PC and Mac we would have a highly polished and outstanding game right now. They are too distracted by trying to get the console version as near perfect as possible. I'm sure that's because they know that PC gamers are far more forgiving of bugs than our console counterparts.

Psilent

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Subtomik wrote: »

The issue with "night capping" isn't the issue of playing at night, it's flipping the entire map one color with little to no opposition. Then the prime time players log on with massive disadvantages and getting out of their gates a task and it gets old.

Night capers don't understand this because they log in to a usually well balanced map that they leave destroyed.

It's logging in to see your gates open or just owning a keep or three. It's starting in the same place (the beginning) every single day. It's going 'Ok, let's try to capture Rayles/KC/BB again to start' for the fiftieth time. It's fighting an opponent that has full buffs, an emperor to back them up, is organized, and you have nothing but a small team and the hope to get some even fights before the day ends with the zergball descending on you.

I know what it's like.

Welcome to EP on Haderus. Wake up everyday to a yellow map. Except yesterday, very odd day. Woke up yesterday to a red and blue map!

I'm not going anywhere, this game is the most fun I've had in a long time and PvP on Haderus is a lot of fun. No lag, no crashing, just a lot of fun!

Sacadon

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

If they had simply stuck to this being exclusive for PC and Mac we would have a highly polished and outstanding game right now. They are too distracted by trying to get the console version as near perfect as possible. I'm sure that's because they know that PC gamers are far more forgiving of bugs than our console counterparts.

good point, and to be viable on a console (certified by vendor) the requirements I suspect are much more stringent. You can tell where their focus is on dev side too by looking at the new/changes to their API. Like Update 5 included a huge amount of console additions and for forward camps as well... hence why I assumed the removal was just a research exercise at our expense (sort of) on their part.

Turelus

I want to walk away, dear Divines do I want to show ZOS how angry I am with them over low population scores.

Sadly though I care for the game and the people I play with, so I will stay subbed, but I will remind them every day about how much I hate that dumb mechanic and how it's harming Thornblade EU.

Sacadon

Turelus wrote: »

I want to walk away, dear Divines do I want to show ZOS how angry I am with them over low population scores.

Sadly though I care for the game and the people I play with, so I will stay subbed, but I will remind them every day about how much I hate that dumb mechanic and how it's harming Thornblade EU.

yup, the last thing we should do is let up on them... I say bring the rain. If I had more time on my hands I may even play the PR pressure angle because that would raise some eyebrows. Notice you infrequently hear/see about ESO in the main gaming news and publications. Funny how the public spotlight can make a wheel squeak annoyingly loud to a company. I just hope Wheeler has been sending his resume out, because they've put him in a very poor career situation as the public eye for this.