zenimax, can we please have hirelings to help us in dungeons.

Darkrogue671

Kind of defeats the purpose of an ONLINE game if you can get hirelings. The game is designed so you can group with people - real people. If the grouping tool was better (I'm sorry... COMPLETELY OVERHAULED!) or a friendlier UI for your friends list, then maybe that wouldn't be such an issue.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Apart from the fact that mmos are made to play together with other players, can anyone tell how this hirelings should work?
Just think of bosses like Blackheart endboss, Selene, Praxin, vet Wayrest first boss, 2nd - 4th boss in vet fungal, 4th and 5th boss in vet coa, everything but the first boss in vet coh. How would it be possible to design the hirelings in a way they could be used for all valid strategies in these fights?

Orchish

There are times i don't want to group and just want to go around questing alone, or grabbing a few achievements. I would support a companion to assist me in this. Shouldn't be hard to add restrictions to prevent people using them whilst grouped with actual players and would also give the solo players more choice as they could attempt some of the easier group dungeons.

zaria

Black_Wolf88 wrote: »

in the early beginning there was merc for hire in pvp - that turned out to be a very very bad idea so the mercs were removed.

Imo mercs have proven to be a bad idea once and I belive some of the thoughts said here in this thread about mercs being a bad idea might not be too far off from what we could expect to see if it were to be implemented. so in my opinion mercs should not be added to either pve or pvp.

How did the mercs work? As in compared with the clanfear pet in pvp?
Curious cat want to know

thesilverball_ESO

This game already has followers who help you out in certain quests, so to those that say no, well, it's already in the game. Nothing new or radical with this concept. The only difference is you're not paying for their services or dragging them from place to place like pets.

Personally, I see no problem with mercs to help out where folks can't or don't want to group as long as the game doesn't go overboard with this concept. Let those who want to solo do so with mercs if they want, those who prefer to group, to group. I'd probably drag one around those empty VR zones for the company and help myself if given the chance.

In my opinion just because this is an MMO it doesn't mean it has to follow strict defined rules. MMO to me just means it's a game with lots of people, and online together - the rest is up for debate. I could be wrong but that's how I feel. And honestly, I'm doubtful anything like this will be implemented anyways even if the powers that be think it's a good idea. They're concentrating on too many other things. Still, it's an interesting suggestion.

lolo_01b16_ESO

PvP-Mercs were mostly used the following way: Stack 20 mages in one place e.g. behind the door and laugh at the attackers when they open the door and wipe. They didn't have any good AI that would allow them to be helpful in complex fights.

Gilvoth

the people who want to go with thier friends and group can still do that. no one and nothing is stoping that for them.
this is something for those of us who prefer solo.

and by the way, his is not rediculas or out of the ordinary. this is allready in many other mmo's. like dungeons and dragons online, where you can make your own group and take the hirelings with you into the dungeon.
and also helps when you perhaps cant find the type of group you need like if your friends aren't online and is very hard to find group. happens alot more then people realize

this is in many other mmo's, it's not off the wall, nor new.

Averya_Teira

dharbert wrote: »

Let me tell you what would happen. Players would still group up, with their 3 hirelings each, and go into a regular or veteran delve with 16 "players" instead of 4 to farm for helm and shoulders.

And the idiotic, AI-driven hirelings would pull adds at the least opportune moment and wipe your entire group.

Or it could be coded the smart way and only allow 4 ''characters'' per dungeon, be it hirelings or players ? 2 hirelings 2 players, 1 player 3 hirelings, 3 players 1 hireling ?

But I guess your way of thinking is ESO's way lol...

zaria

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

PvP-Mercs were mostly used the following way: Stack 20 mages in one place e.g. behind the door and laugh at the attackers when they open the door and wipe. They didn't have any good AI that would allow them to be helpful in complex fights.

Make sense, and yes in that sort of settings they would make sense.

Sindala

No, game code wont allow companions that can fight and take damage. Would have to be re-wrote and they fired the coders that did all that stuff already.

zaria

Sindala wrote: »

No, game code wont allow companions that can fight and take damage. Would have to be re-wrote and they fired the coders that did all that stuff already.

??? plenty of followers in the game and lots of new dungeons after release.

Problem is npc able to cope with boss mechanisms, have fun program it.
Yes you could hardcode it to exploit the mechanisms but that would be lot of work, also an problem with randomness and the players who don't follow the script.

Dekkameron

If i could hire one of the "healer" style npcs that have that channeled heal that does about 1000 a second, i'd do it in an instant.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

i will just simply say, no.

Rosveen

thesilverball_ESO wrote: »

This game already has followers who help you out in certain quests, so to those that say no, well, it's already in the game. Nothing new or radical with this concept. The only difference is you're not paying for their services or dragging them from place to place like pets.

I am against hirelings in instanced group content. I wouldn't oppose hirelings during normal questing and especially solo instances, where it would help alleviate problems some people have with scaling. I know many solo quests already have NPCs helping us, but they're... um... not very capable, to put it lightly.

Gilvoth

nothing new to mmo's having these as is in many mmo's today.
would help me greatly as it would many others also.

AlnilamE

While I don't see the problem with allowing players to bring one hireling with them (in the place of another player in the case of an instanced dungeon), I have to question how useful they would be.

A lot of the companions we get while questing are pretty useless, and in the context of the group dungeons where even the "normal" versions have mechanics that need to be taken into account, I think they would be more of a hindrance than a help.

I don't know how the mercs worked (I know you can still buy them in some guild stores for around 60K). Could they be killed?

And if you are in a dungeon, does your hireling "die" and need to be rezzed like another player would? Will it be able to rez you?

It just seems to me that even a bad PUG would do better than 2 players + 2 hirelings in the group dungeons. Regular dungeons and quests would be fine.

hutchinsonhatch

Darkrogue671 wrote: »

Kind of defeats the purpose of an ONLINE game if you can get hirelings. The game is designed so you can group with people - real people. If the grouping tool was better (I'm sorry... COMPLETELY OVERHAULED!) or a friendlier UI for your friends list, then maybe that wouldn't be such an issue.

Guild Wars I was wiser in 2006. There are more reasons to ignore most of the folks running around in an MMO than to socialize with them in any way or form.

Gidorick

I disagree that we should be able to outfit the Merc. We should, however, have the option to hire Mercs of different capabilities.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

I would like 3 hirelings. They don't have to fight, I need them to stand on certain plates in Craglorn.

Shunravi

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

I would like 3 hirelings. They don't have to fight, I need them to stand on certain plates in Craglorn.

I wish we could just drag bodies or rocks or something.

AngryNord

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

I would like 3 hirelings. They don't have to fight, I need them to stand on certain plates in Craglorn.

If you're on the EU server, give a holler to @AngryNord and I'll help you out if I'm online

poodlemasterb16_ESO

Shunravi wrote: »

show previous quotes

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

I would like 3 hirelings. They don't have to fight, I need them to stand on certain plates in Craglorn.

I wish we could just drag bodies or rocks or something.

We should start a Three Plates club for all those who have been to the plate 'wall'.

AlnilamE

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

Shunravi wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

I would like 3 hirelings. They don't have to fight, I need them to stand on certain plates in Craglorn.

I wish we could just drag bodies or rocks or something.

We should start a Three Plates club for all those who have been to the plate 'wall'.

You should have weekly meetings with groups of 4 people!

poodlemasterb16_ESO

AlnilamE wrote: »

show previous quotes

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

I would like 3 hirelings. They don't have to fight, I need them to stand on certain plates in Craglorn.

I wish we could just drag bodies or rocks or something.

We should start a Three Plates club for all those who have been to the plate 'wall'.

You should have weekly meetings with groups of 4 people!

LOL. It's just because it is the end of soloing the game.

Natjur

There are two sides
(1) Player who want to play with the build of their choice even tho it might be low dps or poor setup (low reaction times)

(2) Players who want to do the instance fast for the undaunted exp\items and not have to deal with poor preforming players.

I can understand players in type (1) but I don't want to group with them. Having to carry a player with poor dps, or having to use lots of potions to heal them has they do not move out of the red is just not fun for me.

New players, I am happy to help, as they learn and improve, or happy to take advice how to improve their dps (advice, not demands). But the OP does not want any of that, they just want to do it their way, and that is fine, but count me out.

Team speak is a great way to help players learn an instance, but not required, and most people I run with who know all the instances and bosses, we only use team speak to talk about not game things but its never forced on anyone.

The current veteran instances are fun and fast but if you have a member or two not pulling their weight, then they get drawn out and are no longer fun.

The hireling idea, I can't see how that would work, as I have never seen a NPC move out of the 'red' and would get one shotted. Most instance are about moving around to keep out of boss moves. They would be worst then two bad pug players

Our guild does do learning runs of veteran dungeons and trials. Team speak is a must for theses (but a mic is not needed). Its just the best way to teach without having lots of wipes.

kewl

You get some good groups, you get some bad groups. For the most part, I've gotten good groups.

1. If you don't like a group, leave. Just be polite on your way out.
2. Someone harassing you? Ignore them and/or report them.
3. Not all criticism is invalid because you disagree with it. Take a step back and be objective. You might find other people's suggestions will make you a better player.

MornaBaine

I think it would be really cool if you could go to the town market place and hire a companion from a group of NPCs standing around looking for work. You could hire up to 3 if you wanted to solo a dungeon but where this would come in really handy is when what so often happens to me occurs... 3 guildies ready to go take on a dungeon... but we need a 4th and no one is currently available and/or we're just missing a crucial role like, you know, the healer.

Dungeons could simply kick the hirelings if you try to enter with 4 players and hirelings so it wouldn't pay to go hire an NPC to fill a role thinking they'd provide extra help if you already have a group of 4 players.

If your hireling is killed you HAVE to resurrect them with a soul gem as this would also be an incentive not to "over use" them.

This would be an incredibly handy feature and would ensure that a lot of players get to experience all the content they would be forced to miss out on otherwise. Plus I think the Devs would end up having a lot of fun creating these characters.

Natjur

Anyone ever seen a NPC step OUT of a red circle? Or would every NPC if hired just die on the first boss? Or first mob with an AOE?

MornaBaine

Natjur wrote: »

Anyone ever seen a NPC step OUT of a red circle? Or would every NPC if hired just die on the first boss? Or first mob with an AOE?

It would have to be a delicate balance. Obviously NPCs are not going to react like Players. So they should have a certain amount of immunity to the dreaded red circle attacks but perhaps be slightly more vulnerable to direct attacks. The Companions in SWTOR are pretty cool so I know they COULD work.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

@Natjur first thing tanks and healers need to learn, is to when to know to have someone just die. the lackluster players that clearly "don't get it" shouldn't be constantly coddled through the game because they stay. don't be afraid to give advice and to also give a harsh lesson.

i have in the past told healers (usually my wife) to just stop healing X because they won't watch <bad habit> and arent worth the energy, which i do so in group so the individual knows. the bonus is they tend to leave and put me on ignore, when i stop tanking for THE ONE and focus on the group, and i never have to deal with them again.

that being said, this is why i don't care for NPC pets outside of the class specifics. LOTRO had skirmish pets, at first they sucked and died all the time, then they make everything a steamroll once they were advanced to a point. i only have limited experience with SWTOR pets, but i remember not being all that impressed nor excited to have them. on average, this game is too easy to need vast amounts of help already. if having a pet changes much, then revisit your tactics/strategies.

edit:
@Shunravi love the rock/body idea on the plates