Sorcerer and Staff Changes (ZOS Please read)

Archmage1

IF (key word if) staff and its abilities will be based off of spell damage instead of weapon damage which is rumored to happen, I sure hope ZOS also changes surge (both critical and power) to increase spell damage instead of weapon damage. As a pure staff wielding sorc, our main dps output is highly dependent on crit/power surge. We are already lagging behind in the dps category, and not changing both would be an even greater hit on our dps potential. IF staves are truly going to be based off of spell damage, but surge is kept as a weapon damage skill, this would render it useless for us pure casters, and significantly diminish our dps role and play style. Now I know this is all speculation and many other changes could happen, but what are your thoughts?

Aett_Thorn

Changing it to just spell damage would hurt bow and Melee weapon sorcs, though. I am hoping that they're smart enough to make it boost both.

Archmage1

That would be a great solution. Hopefully they have this issue in mind when they make these game altering changes.

Nysticc

Its unlikely that ZOS will change surge to increase spell power, if they did that Crystal Fragments would be on the same level as the Nightblade's Soul Harvest. They may change it in some other way but spell power is out of the question.

Aett_Thorn

Nysticc wrote: »

Its unlikely that ZOS will change surge to increase spell power, if they did that Crystal Fragments would be on the same level as the Nightblade's Soul Harvest. They may change it in some other way but spell power is out of the question.

Well, you could always make it buff spell power at a lower amount.

Although, if it did buff spell power, would it buff further castings of itself? That could be...problematic.

Draxys

Aett_Thorn wrote: »

Nysticc wrote: »

Its unlikely that ZOS will change surge to increase spell power, if they did that Crystal Fragments would be on the same level as the Nightblade's Soul Harvest. They may change it in some other way but spell power is out of the question.

Well, you could always make it buff spell power at a lower amount.

Although, if it did buff spell power, would it buff further castings of itself? That could be...problematic.

buffs don't buff buffs

xaraan

They could have it buff a percentage, since spell power is nearly half what weapon power is for the same result. Or they could change the morphs and have one effect spell power and the other weapon power. In the end though, they are changing a lot of details on powers with 1.6, so who knows how it will wash out.

Archmage1

I am hoping it will hash out with no detrimental effects on us pure casters. That is my biggest concern with switching staves to spell power.

Gyudan

This thread already discussed the exact same issue. Feel free to read all the pages @Archmage1

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone. While we aren’t quite ready to discuss all the changes and improvements going into Update 6, we can tell you that many of these changes will specifically address the concerns brought up in this thread. Our primary goal is that regardless of your class and build, you can feel like you can be competitive in the archetype you want to play as.

dodgehopper_ESO

If they change surge to only work for staves, that would really hurt all of the other weapons builds for Sorceror (there are quite a few on the forums). I myself have really enjoyed melee and using surge. Its a tough call, but the change to the system itself upheaves a lot of notions of how things work currently.

Jitterbug

Archmage1 wrote: »

IF (key word if) staff and its abilities will be based off of spell damage instead of weapon damage which is rumored to happen, I sure hope ZOS also changes surge (both critical and power) to increase spell damage instead of weapon damage. As a pure staff wielding sorc, our main dps output is highly dependent on crit/power surge. We are already lagging behind in the dps category, and not changing both would be an even greater hit on our dps potential. IF staves are truly going to be based off of spell damage, but surge is kept as a weapon damage skill, this would render it useless for us pure casters, and significantly diminish our dps role and play style. Now I know this is all speculation and many other changes could happen, but what are your thoughts?

On the other hand it's (surge) the only sorc skill I as a stam sorc have any use for...

killedbyping

Archmage1 wrote: »

IF (key word if) staff and its abilities will be based off of spell damage instead of weapon damage which is rumored to happen, I sure hope ZOS also changes surge (both critical and power) to increase spell damage instead of weapon damage. As a pure staff wielding sorc, our main dps output is highly dependent on crit/power surge. We are already lagging behind in the dps category, and not changing both would be an even greater hit on our dps potential. IF staves are truly going to be based off of spell damage, but surge is kept as a weapon damage skill, this would render it useless for us pure casters, and significantly diminish our dps role and play style. Now I know this is all speculation and many other changes could happen, but what are your thoughts?

Do you even realize that Surge was never intended to be used as buff for spell caster builds ?
It works perfect with Bow or DW stamina builds sorcs. And i mean it, we run few stamina builds in Sanctum trial runs and they usualy able to do 900-1000 dps no problem.

P.S. One of the other rumors is that most if not all skills of all classess gonna be reworked. So im not even sure sorcs will have Surge at all (atleast i dont understand why in the world Surge is skill of a Sorc, not NightBlade).

Hybris6

killedbyping wrote: »

Archmage1 wrote: »

IF (key word if) staff and its abilities will be based off of spell damage instead of weapon damage which is rumored to happen, I sure hope ZOS also changes surge (both critical and power) to increase spell damage instead of weapon damage. As a pure staff wielding sorc, our main dps output is highly dependent on crit/power surge. We are already lagging behind in the dps category, and not changing both would be an even greater hit on our dps potential. IF staves are truly going to be based off of spell damage, but surge is kept as a weapon damage skill, this would render it useless for us pure casters, and significantly diminish our dps role and play style. Now I know this is all speculation and many other changes could happen, but what are your thoughts?

Do you even realize that Surge was never intended to be used as buff for spell caster builds ?
It works perfect with Bow or DW stamina builds sorcs. And i mean it, we run few stamina builds in Sanctum trial runs and they usualy able to do 900-1000 dps no problem.

P.S. One of the other rumors is that most if not all skills of all classess gonna be reworked. So im not even sure sorcs will have Surge at all (atleast i dont understand why in the world Surge is skill of a Sorc, not NightBlade).

Obviously surge should be a DK skill!

Gyudan

killedbyping wrote: »

Archmage1 wrote: »

IF (key word if) staff and its abilities will be based off of spell damage instead of weapon damage which is rumored to happen, I sure hope ZOS also changes surge (both critical and power) to increase spell damage instead of weapon damage. As a pure staff wielding sorc, our main dps output is highly dependent on crit/power surge. We are already lagging behind in the dps category, and not changing both would be an even greater hit on our dps potential. IF staves are truly going to be based off of spell damage, but surge is kept as a weapon damage skill, this would render it useless for us pure casters, and significantly diminish our dps role and play style. Now I know this is all speculation and many other changes could happen, but what are your thoughts?

Do you even realize that Surge was never intended to be used as buff for spell caster builds ?
It works perfect with Bow or DW stamina builds sorcs. And i mean it, we run few stamina builds in Sanctum trial runs and they usualy able to do 900-1000 dps no problem.

P.S. One of the other rumors is that most if not all skills of all classess gonna be reworked. So im not even sure sorcs will have Surge at all (atleast i dont understand why in the world Surge is skill of a Sorc, not NightBlade).

1. DK and NB DPS can reach 1.3k on Sanctum easily, yet sorcerers are unable to do the same, especially with the destro staff meta.
2. Surge is lightning concentrated in the player's weapon and powering his attacks. Sorcerers have lightning, that's even our only proper class line.
3. Everything gets reworked with update 6, I just hope that they can balance the effectiveness of each class. Not everyone should have the exact same optimal DPS but each class should have 1 role that it excel at, which is currently not the case for sorcerers. You can't have DK = best tank and DPS forever.

Merlin13KAGL

killedbyping wrote: »

Archmage1 wrote: »

IF (key word if) staff and its abilities will be based off of spell damage instead of weapon damage which is rumored to happen, I sure hope ZOS also changes surge (both critical and power) to increase spell damage instead of weapon damage. As a pure staff wielding sorc, our main dps output is highly dependent on crit/power surge. We are already lagging behind in the dps category, and not changing both would be an even greater hit on our dps potential. IF staves are truly going to be based off of spell damage, but surge is kept as a weapon damage skill, this would render it useless for us pure casters, and significantly diminish our dps role and play style. Now I know this is all speculation and many other changes could happen, but what are your thoughts?

Do you even realize that Surge was never intended to be used as buff for spell caster builds ?
It works perfect with Bow or DW stamina builds sorcs. And i mean it, we run few stamina builds in Sanctum trial runs and they usualy able to do 900-1000 dps no problem.

P.S. One of the other rumors is that most if not all skills of all classess gonna be reworked. So im not even sure sorcs will have Surge at all (atleast i dont understand why in the world Surge is skill of a Sorc, not NightBlade).

Uh...is that why it's under a spellcaster skill line?

They could fix this a couple ways:

• They could change it to increase both WP and SP by lesser amounts.
• They could split the morph, one for WP, the other for SP. (Does anyone use Power Surge, honestly?)

DPS by casting alone is not on par with staff use. Further, it's not terribly intuitive that weapons that are intrinsically magic based (staves) are based on weapon power not spell damage.

How bass-ackwards is it to have to increase weapon power to get higher damage with Force Shock vs increasing spell power to get higher damage with anything Magicka based?

It would be different if there were actual staff melee attacks available beyond bash. They're missing by not having melee options for staff users.

Rune_Relic

Aett_Thorn wrote: »

Changing it to just spell damage would hurt bow and Melee weapon sorcs, though. I am hoping that they're smart enough to make it boost both.

Yes ? You want to use weapons....load stamina.
I agree with the OP...Either hi power magic + staff (magicka+ magicka crit+spell resists)... hi power damage + weapon (stamina+stamina crit+weapon)...or mediocre at both.
You cant have your cake and eat it like you can now.
Its called balance.
Thats the whole point behind the change in 1.6
Make your sacrifice and live with it.

Archmage1

Agreed, proper balancing is key and I hope ZOS takes these changes into consideration.

killedbyping

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

killedbyping wrote: »

Archmage1 wrote: »

IF (key word if) staff and its abilities will be based off of spell damage instead of weapon damage which is rumored to happen, I sure hope ZOS also changes surge (both critical and power) to increase spell damage instead of weapon damage. As a pure staff wielding sorc, our main dps output is highly dependent on crit/power surge. We are already lagging behind in the dps category, and not changing both would be an even greater hit on our dps potential. IF staves are truly going to be based off of spell damage, but surge is kept as a weapon damage skill, this would render it useless for us pure casters, and significantly diminish our dps role and play style. Now I know this is all speculation and many other changes could happen, but what are your thoughts?

Do you even realize that Surge was never intended to be used as buff for spell caster builds ?
It works perfect with Bow or DW stamina builds sorcs. And i mean it, we run few stamina builds in Sanctum trial runs and they usualy able to do 900-1000 dps no problem.

P.S. One of the other rumors is that most if not all skills of all classess gonna be reworked. So im not even sure sorcs will have Surge at all (atleast i dont understand why in the world Surge is skill of a Sorc, not NightBlade).

Uh...is that why it's under a spellcaster skill line?

They could fix this a couple ways:

• They could change it to increase both WP and SP by lesser amounts.
• They could split the morph, one for WP, the other for SP. (Does anyone use Power Surge, honestly?)

DPS by casting alone is not on par with staff use. Further, it's not terribly intuitive that weapons that are intrinsically magic based (staves) are based on weapon power not spell damage.

How bass-ackwards is it to have to increase weapon power to get higher damage with Force Shock vs increasing spell power to get higher damage with anything Magicka based?

It would be different if there were actual staff melee attacks available beyond bash. They're missing by not having melee options for staff users.

Well, there are actualy no such thing as spell caster skill line in this game for any class.
However, making it increase both spell damage and weapon damage make sense but only if comparable skills of other clasess would do the same.
Igneous weapon of DK are also only increase Weapon damage for example and other morph give only Weapon crit, but not spell crit.

Anyway, lets wait for 1.6 patch notes.

dodgehopper_ESO

Jitterbug wrote: »

Archmage1 wrote: »

IF (key word if) staff and its abilities will be based off of spell damage instead of weapon damage which is rumored to happen, I sure hope ZOS also changes surge (both critical and power) to increase spell damage instead of weapon damage. As a pure staff wielding sorc, our main dps output is highly dependent on crit/power surge. We are already lagging behind in the dps category, and not changing both would be an even greater hit on our dps potential. IF staves are truly going to be based off of spell damage, but surge is kept as a weapon damage skill, this would render it useless for us pure casters, and significantly diminish our dps role and play style. Now I know this is all speculation and many other changes could happen, but what are your thoughts?

On the other hand it's (surge) the only sorc skill I as a stam sorc have any use for...

Jitterbug makes a good point, this is why I'm not comfortable with the notion of making sorcerer completely pigeonholed as a Robe wearing mage damage dealer.

Shunravi

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

Archmage1 wrote: »

IF (key word if) staff and its abilities will be based off of spell damage instead of weapon damage which is rumored to happen, I sure hope ZOS also changes surge (both critical and power) to increase spell damage instead of weapon damage. As a pure staff wielding sorc, our main dps output is highly dependent on crit/power surge. We are already lagging behind in the dps category, and not changing both would be an even greater hit on our dps potential. IF staves are truly going to be based off of spell damage, but surge is kept as a weapon damage skill, this would render it useless for us pure casters, and significantly diminish our dps role and play style. Now I know this is all speculation and many other changes could happen, but what are your thoughts?

On the other hand it's (surge) the only sorc skill I as a stam sorc have any use for...

Jitterbug makes a good point, this is why I'm not comfortable with the notion of making sorcerer completely pigeonholed as a Robe wearing mage damage dealer.

Quite so. This does not only go for sorcs tho. The current system is structured around the general notion that melee or ranged abilities should be able to have a place with respective weapon skills if the player wants that. The rumors of the proposed system destroy that.

I hope they do a good job restructuring the abilities.