I am my own toon!

stewhead2ub17_ESO

Saw a recent thread from someone complaining about too many magic users in the game and it just prompted me to say "I AM MY OWN TOON!" I don't use cookie cutter builds. I don't care about having the most dps. I don't care about how you have your toon specced to join my group. I'm an admitted altoholic and RP'er. I roll each toon according to what I believe their backstory is. I have warriors that only use 2h weapons and healers that are hestitant to heal certain races. I don't care about rushing to end game. I'm a mmo "glass is half full" kind of guy. I enjoy the ride and the moment. I like grouping with fun people, not automatons racing for the boss. I laugh at people who rush to end game and then complain they have nothing to do. It's your money, play the way you want, but I AM MY OWN TOON! *takes off glasses, rolls up the scroll, and steps down from the podium*

MornaBaine

It's really unfortunate that with such a huge variety of ways you can build a character, only a few builds are optimal. I'm not sure what the answer is but I really wish ZOS would get to work on it!

stewhead2ub17_ESO

Haha my wife just pointed out that back in our EQ days (before all the hard math came out) we figured out how to beat bosses and dungeons based on the people we had in the group. Adjusted our strategies through trial and error (and a lot of laughs). We didn't need the "perfect group" dynamic like these kids today!

diabeticDemon18

I'm the same way! I create my character with a plan for him, for his story. Such as my Bosmer Nightblade Archer. I wanted a stealthy assassin that could kill things with a bow from great distances. Before long I was saddened to find though, this build wouldn't work to get me very far in the game. Also, the arrows don't fly to the end of your view range, but to the end of a set range which I don't like. If I can see it and I'm using a bow, I should be able to hit it if I aim right. Also, sneaking wasn't very good or practical to use to me and I hated that arrows follow the enemy like a heat-seeking missile, and the same problem with spells. If I fire a projectile, at least have it follow the laws of physics please

ers101284b14_ESO

MornaBaine wrote: »

It's really unfortunate that with such a huge variety of ways you can build a character, only a few builds are optimal. I'm not sure what the answer is but I really wish ZOS would get to work on it!

Every MMO has builds that are more optimal than others. Just the way it is. It's up to you whether you want to follow the trend or not. I have never had the most Optimal build in this game nor have I run with people who force it. In fact no one in this game has even asked me what my build is they only asked my role. And I think that's pretty awesome.

chipputer

While it's nice that you have played well with sub-optimal builds in the past in other games, and are able to do so here, I think it's worth mentioning that with some of the competitive group functions that ZOS has put in, it's unfair to paint those that go for optimal routes in a light that makes it seem like they're sheep, or unoriginal, because of how they built their character.

My character is an optimized healer spec (missing a few tidbits here and there because lazy), however he is also a lightly roleplayed frontlines healer who contracted vampirism and hides it by wearing clothing and other equipment that completely conceals his flesh. He continues to serve in the same capacity he always did, fearful of people discovering his condition and worried about the consequences for him choosing to use the dark gift to his advantage, rather than purging it when he had the chance. RP-wise he doesn't use any of his vampirism abilities unless nobody else is around him and he only feeds on criminals or people who are otherwise going to attempt to kill him anyway.

I am also my own "toon" (can we quit calling them this, it sounds utterly stupid), I just happen to choose to be able to participate in weekly trial times and would rather get through v12 versions of dungeons without ripping my own hair out. I know your post has made room to say that this isn't a bad thing, but the mere fact that you have taken the time out to point out how much of a special snowflake your character is already paints those of us who game differently in a negative light.

adriant1978

It's perfectly possible to be a min-maxer and a roleplayer at the same time, but personally I find having a flaw or two in your build (and finding ways to compensate for them) can be good for adding RP flavor. Of course I wouldn't expect to be able to use such characters for competitive stuff.

Heishi

MornaBaine wrote: »

It's really unfortunate that with such a huge variety of ways you can build a character, only a few builds are optimal. I'm not sure what the answer is but I really wish ZOS would get to work on it!

The problem is people push so hard on the triangle (dps, tank, heal/support). This makes the game mechanics simple to fit into people's brains. It's familiar and comfortable.

What this game does is more like the triangle in the circle (like you see in char creation for face and body type). There are certain builds that make the best points of the triangle. To fit into those points you'll have to cookie cutter into it.

If you move away from the triad points, you lose some of the focus sure, but gain a little something as you are close to the other points.

Let's say you have 10 points. You can put them into DPS, Tank, or Support/Healer. Any combination you want. This gives you over 30 million combinations (if I calculated correctly, which admittedly I just used a combination calculator online).

So one char might be 10,0,0 the next 9,0,1 while another 5,3,2. The 9,0,1 won't do as much dps as the 10,0,0 but it'll have just a touch more heals.

People just don't like hybrids because it takes more effort to organize. If someone said "LFG I'm a mid DPS Sorcerer who can take a few hits and a couple of spells that heal" people would lose their mind. Really this is why organized groups do better generally.

You might pug a dungeon group and think you have 2 dps, a tank, and a healer when what you end up with is more like a dps with backup heals, a dps with a split between tank and heals, then a tank with almost as much dps as defense, and a healer who has a split between tank and dps also.

Sadly people never seem to get out of their own way on this issue. I've seen it in multiple "Play your own way" games, always the same. People want their cookie cutter builds, they want their class to be the best, all other classes are overpowered, their class needs to be buffed to be balanced.

MornaBaine

Heishi wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

It's really unfortunate that with such a huge variety of ways you can build a character, only a few builds are optimal. I'm not sure what the answer is but I really wish ZOS would get to work on it!

The problem is people push so hard on the triangle (dps, tank, heal/support). This makes the game mechanics simple to fit into people's brains. It's familiar and comfortable.

What this game does is more like the triangle in the circle (like you see in char creation for face and body type). There are certain builds that make the best points of the triangle. To fit into those points you'll have to cookie cutter into it.

If you move away from the triad points, you lose some of the focus sure, but gain a little something as you are close to the other points.

Let's say you have 10 points. You can put them into DPS, Tank, or Support/Healer. Any combination you want. This gives you over 30 million combinations (if I calculated correctly, which admittedly I just used a combination calculator online).

So one char might be 10,0,0 the next 9,0,1 while another 5,3,2. The 9,0,1 won't do as much dps as the 10,0,0 but it'll have just a touch more heals.

People just don't like hybrids because it takes more effort to organize. If someone said "LFG I'm a mid DPS Sorcerer who can take a few hits and a couple of spells that heal" people would lose their mind. Really this is why organized groups do better generally.

You might pug a dungeon group and think you have 2 dps, a tank, and a healer when what you end up with is more like a dps with backup heals, a dps with a split between tank and heals, then a tank with almost as much dps as defense, and a healer who has a split between tank and dps also.

Sadly people never seem to get out of their own way on this issue. I've seen it in multiple "Play your own way" games, always the same. People want their cookie cutter builds, they want their class to be the best, all other classes are overpowered, their class needs to be buffed to be balanced.

You make some really fantastic points. Thank you. My main is a "cookie cutter" Sorc Vampire in light armor. She is probably the only character I will ever PvP with. All the rest are my "crazy experiments" because I LOVE messing about with unconventional builds and I frankly have a lot of fun with them. Are they gimped? Some of them, probably. But they are CHARACTERS who are the way they are for RP reasons and that makes them fun to play regardless.

Nihil

MornaBaine wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

It's really unfortunate that with such a huge variety of ways you can build a character, only a few builds are optimal. I'm not sure what the answer is but I really wish ZOS would get to work on it!

The problem is people push so hard on the triangle (dps, tank, heal/support). This makes the game mechanics simple to fit into people's brains. It's familiar and comfortable.

What this game does is more like the triangle in the circle (like you see in char creation for face and body type). There are certain builds that make the best points of the triangle. To fit into those points you'll have to cookie cutter into it.

If you move away from the triad points, you lose some of the focus sure, but gain a little something as you are close to the other points.

Let's say you have 10 points. You can put them into DPS, Tank, or Support/Healer. Any combination you want. This gives you over 30 million combinations (if I calculated correctly, which admittedly I just used a combination calculator online).

So one char might be 10,0,0 the next 9,0,1 while another 5,3,2. The 9,0,1 won't do as much dps as the 10,0,0 but it'll have just a touch more heals.

People just don't like hybrids because it takes more effort to organize. If someone said "LFG I'm a mid DPS Sorcerer who can take a few hits and a couple of spells that heal" people would lose their mind. Really this is why organized groups do better generally.

You might pug a dungeon group and think you have 2 dps, a tank, and a healer when what you end up with is more like a dps with backup heals, a dps with a split between tank and heals, then a tank with almost as much dps as defense, and a healer who has a split between tank and dps also.

Sadly people never seem to get out of their own way on this issue. I've seen it in multiple "Play your own way" games, always the same. People want their cookie cutter builds, they want their class to be the best, all other classes are overpowered, their class needs to be buffed to be balanced.

You make some really fantastic points. Thank you. My main is a "cookie cutter" Sorc Vampire in light armor. She is probably the only character I will ever PvP with. All the rest are my "crazy experiments" because I LOVE messing about with unconventional builds and I frankly have a lot of fun with them. Are they gimped? Some of them, probably. But they are CHARACTERS who are the way they are for RP reasons and that makes them fun to play regardless.

Those characters could also lead to more efficient builds then the current "cookie cutter" builds. When the game released there were a lot of hypothesized builds some worked some didn't people kept refining their builds. Through out the time I have seen different builds come up that players said didn't work, but with a bit of changing of skills, and the synergies that came with them better things arose. I was looking at a thread from like update 1.2 ish area a couple weeks ago looking for a specific mod post, and noticed a person who complained that they nerfed harness magic as they made the shield take the full damage of the attack, calling it a useless skill. Months later we saw every one shield stacking with harness magic up all the time.

I don't think it is all on Zeni, I think a lot of it falls on us players too. We make things cookie cutter and aren't willing to fail or run non optimal builds enough to refine them into something awesome. Players want the best now, and will jump on what everyone else has done and that becomes the norm, although not always the best.

Gilvoth

eso does have "Some" of that freedom and feel that we had in morrwind in reguard to this subject. and for that i am greatfull more then i can describe.

SteveCampsOut

chipputer wrote: »

While it's nice that you have played well with sub-optimal builds in the past in other games, and are able to do so here, I think it's worth mentioning that with some of the competitive group functions that ZOS has put in, it's unfair to paint those that go for optimal routes in a light that makes it seem like they're sheep, or unoriginal, because of how they built their character.

How sad for you that among gadzillions of threads about Ultimate Builds and why we need them, you choose to be offended by the one thread that is uplifting for those of us who aren't cookie cutter builds.

AlexDougherty

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Saw a recent thread from someone complaining about too many magic users in the game and it just prompted me to say "I AM MY OWN TOON!" I don't use cookie cutter builds. I don't care about having the most dps. I don't care about how you have your toon specced to join my group. I'm an admitted altoholic and RP'er. I roll each toon according to what I believe their backstory is. I have warriors that only use 2h weapons and healers that are hestitant to heal certain races. I don't care about rushing to end game. I'm a mmo "glass is half full" kind of guy. I enjoy the ride and the moment. I like grouping with fun people, not automatons racing for the boss. I laugh at people who rush to end game and then complain they have nothing to do. It's your money, play the way you want, but I AM MY OWN TOON! *takes off glasses, rolls up the scroll, and steps down from the podium*

Same here, I make a believable character and make decisions in character, same with what skills they get, might not be the best for them, but it suits their fighting style.

I wouldn't go so far as to say I am the toon, because they are all different and I don't think I have a split personality (complex yes, split I hope not )

Kayo1

MornaBaine wrote: »

It's really unfortunate that with such a huge variety of ways you can build a character, only a few builds are optimal. I'm not sure what the answer is but I really wish ZOS would get to work on it!

Agreed, but Optimal != Necessary. Despite what some players might believe, there is no need to have the an optimal build to beat the games content. However, OP, because of the versatility in specializing with MMOs, it is possible to have a horrible spec that can make a significant difference on whether or not you can play your part efficiently. That goes double for hybrids since most dont know how to play them (or play with them) effectively enough.

I dont follow cookie builds either but as a rule I pick a role and build my spec around it. If I want DPS, then I try not to spend point on healing/armor.

Maotti

My main character is a heavy armor dualwielding sorcerer. I have gotten a few wierd looks when in pug groups, but at least they give me a chance. And we manage to do the stuff aswell.

AlexDougherty

Maotti_Nor wrote: »

My main character is a heavy armor dualwielding sorcerer. I have gotten a few wierd looks when in pug groups, but at least they give me a chance. And we manage to do the stuff aswell.

Well, you do have a spell that electrifies weapons, so dual weild makes sense.

MornaBaine

Maotti_Nor wrote: »

My main character is a heavy armor dualwielding sorcerer. I have gotten a few wierd looks when in pug groups, but at least they give me a chance. And we manage to do the stuff aswell.

I have a sword and board, heavy armor mage as well! She's an Imperial and gets the racial bonus for that so I figured I might as well have some fun with it! Glad to see I'm not alone!

Maotti

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Maotti_Nor wrote: »

My main character is a heavy armor dualwielding sorcerer. I have gotten a few wierd looks when in pug groups, but at least they give me a chance. And we manage to do the stuff aswell.

Well, you do have a spell that electrifies weapons, so dual weild makes sense.

Except i've never ever used it.

Ill definetly give it a go. Thanks for the tip.

Heishi

There's nothing wrong with cookie cutter builds. It's tried and true known to work builds that help people who don't want to spend a bunch of time tinkering. The problem is the mentality that comes with it that you have to be one of these or gtfo.

I tinker with a lot of builds. One of my first back in Beta was a Dunmer DK with bow utilizing the flame circle with fire from DK and enhanced by Dunmer. Eventually there was so much stuff about DK I ended up scrapping it.

Really deleting and making new characters to test new builds doing 1-50 keeps me more entertained than doing the whole grinding to vr14. I have a vr2 but I find it really hard to be motivated to keep pushing forward on it. Really more than anything he's a bit too powerful, 1-3hit killing most mobs even in the vr5 area. So basically I wander around 1hit ko everything trying to do quests and such to level. I do a bunch of quest but there's no feeling of accomplishing anything, where as if I develop competent new builds there's a sense of achievement

AlexDougherty

Maotti_Nor wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Maotti_Nor wrote: »

My main character is a heavy armor dualwielding sorcerer. I have gotten a few wierd looks when in pug groups, but at least they give me a chance. And we manage to do the stuff aswell.

Well, you do have a spell that electrifies weapons, so dual weild makes sense.

Except i've never ever used it.

Ill definetly give it a go. Thanks for the tip.

I have used it, still levelling it up, it's neither great nor bad, it does add to the punch your weapons give, but not excessively, and it's kind of short (in regards to time).

But when my Sorc is in trouble (he's levelling up sword and shield at the minute) it can give him a slight edge. With two weapons it should be better, at least I hope it would be (not tried dual weild with it yet).

bellanca6561n

All you folks consider is combat effectiveness. Yes, that's important.

But I'll give you an example of what gets me going before getting to all that class, build, lethality (or DPS as it's called these days) and such.

Saw a great hairstyle on another player's character at a bank. But it wasn't working in my view.

So I made a character that would work with that hairstyle. You have to consider, first, the nose. Its needs to be strong. I wanted a more prominent nose but without the crooked bridge.

Also the ear elevation and prominence needed to work with the hairstyle as well. It's a hairstyle that demands a strong and broad neck too, adding to the formidable aura:

Finally, apart from the regular features I choose for Dunmeri characters such as warrior musculature for fighters (you have to BELIEVE they have the physical power to fight) I used one of the facial options that give her the effect of eye shadow. Yet I kept the eyes large and widely spaced otherwise the eyes would look "beady."

The overall effect is strong, very Dunmeri, and a character that looks different enough from the others I've created to feel a story when I play her. I would not presume to say I am her....she'd kick my a**

Niastissa

In my personal opinion a optimal build is picking a race and class that suits your play style. If you are forcing it you won't do well.

From there decide what role you want to be and select the skills around it. You can pick skills or side the core that compliment the selected role.

There is strategy in the selection of everything even what type of armor is worn. Even as a tank I'll throw a piece of light and medium armor on to access some beneficial passive skills add opposed to continuing to over charge my armor.

It seems to be working well so far. I wouldn't just follow exactly what build worked for someone else unless upon reflection I thought it made sense fire how I play.

Heishi

Maotti_Nor wrote: »

My main character is a heavy armor dualwielding sorcerer. I have gotten a few wierd looks when in pug groups, but at least they give me a chance. And we manage to do the stuff aswell.

I have a full magic nightblade that dual wields just for the added crafted set bonus. He uses a lot of the assassination/shadow abilities, but no weapon skills. He's a vampire and for his second bar he has a bow with ranged stuff like the siphoning skills, the vamp drain, silver arrow, ect.

Which Silver arrow is funny, The normal damage is based on stamina/weapon damage, but the "disintegrate" bonus effect is based on magicka/spell power. So basically he doesn't do as much with most of the hits, but when it triggers it hits hard. Since I don't use stamina with him, it's not really wasted using it if the damage is low. Also it makes a filler for when magicka is out on the rare time.

Nihil

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Maotti_Nor wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Maotti_Nor wrote: »

My main character is a heavy armor dualwielding sorcerer. I have gotten a few wierd looks when in pug groups, but at least they give me a chance. And we manage to do the stuff aswell.

Well, you do have a spell that electrifies weapons, so dual weild makes sense.

Except i've never ever used it.

Ill definetly give it a go. Thanks for the tip.

I have used it, still levelling it up, it's neither great nor bad, it does add to the punch your weapons give, but not excessively, and it's kind of short (in regards to time).

But when my Sorc is in trouble (he's levelling up sword and shield at the minute) it can give him a slight edge. With two weapons it should be better, at least I hope it would be (not tried dual weild with it yet).

I am actually in the process of leveling all skills and their morphs that a sorc can learn to try and test abilities. For Surge, it is a nice skill, while I do use it with duel wielding it loses some of it's punch in comparison to other weapon skill trees. The downfall duel wielding has currently is it is able to push to soft cap way easier then almost any other weapon, thus you get diminishing returns. Although duel wielding daggers does synergize well with crit surge. I have soloed a ton of boss' with duel wielding and crit surge, throw in quick syphon with off hand restoration staff (even with stamina builds it does ok) and rapid strikes / blood craze your hp can jump up really fast in a crit build.

AlexDougherty

Nihil wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Maotti_Nor wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Maotti_Nor wrote: »

My main character is a heavy armor dualwielding sorcerer. I have gotten a few wierd looks when in pug groups, but at least they give me a chance. And we manage to do the stuff aswell.

Well, you do have a spell that electrifies weapons, so dual weild makes sense.

Except i've never ever used it.

Ill definetly give it a go. Thanks for the tip.

I have used it, still levelling it up, it's neither great nor bad, it does add to the punch your weapons give, but not excessively, and it's kind of short (in regards to time).

But when my Sorc is in trouble (he's levelling up sword and shield at the minute) it can give him a slight edge. With two weapons it should be better, at least I hope it would be (not tried dual weild with it yet).

I am actually in the process of leveling all skills and their morphs that a sorc can learn to try and test abilities. For Surge, it is a nice skill, while I do use it with duel wielding it loses some of it's punch in comparison to other weapon skill trees. The downfall duel wielding has currently is it is able to push to soft cap way easier then almost any other weapon, thus you get diminishing returns. Although duel wielding daggers does synergize well with crit surge. I have soloed a ton of boss' with duel wielding and crit surge, through in quick syphon with off hand restoration staff (even with stamina builds it does ok) and rapid strikes / blood craze your hp can jump up really fast in a crit build.

Nice, thanks for the information, I'll probably give the dual daggers a try at some point, thanks.

SteveCampsOut

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Maotti_Nor wrote: »

My main character is a heavy armor dualwielding sorcerer. I have gotten a few wierd looks when in pug groups, but at least they give me a chance. And we manage to do the stuff aswell.

Well, you do have a spell that electrifies weapons, so dual weild makes sense.

I can't believe nobody has mentioned the Electric Tornado Build that is a Dual Wielding Sorcerer with AOE Lightening shield and blades wiping out mobs right and left! It was featured on the News Tracker some months back!

AlexDougherty

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Maotti_Nor wrote: »

My main character is a heavy armor dualwielding sorcerer. I have gotten a few wierd looks when in pug groups, but at least they give me a chance. And we manage to do the stuff aswell.

Well, you do have a spell that electrifies weapons, so dual weild makes sense.

I can't believe nobody has mentioned the Electric Tornado Build that is a Dual Wielding Sorcerer with AOE Lightening shield and blades wiping out mobs right and left! It was featured on the News Tracker some months back!

Well up until recently my Sorc was a staff sorc, so the weapon using is still a bit new on him, Still finding my feet there. I haven't researched it (I like to find my own way), so I haven't run across this Electric Tornado Build, but it sounds good.

SteveCampsOut

AlexDougherty wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Maotti_Nor wrote: »

My main character is a heavy armor dualwielding sorcerer. I have gotten a few wierd looks when in pug groups, but at least they give me a chance. And we manage to do the stuff aswell.

Well, you do have a spell that electrifies weapons, so dual weild makes sense.

I can't believe nobody has mentioned the Electric Tornado Build that is a Dual Wielding Sorcerer with AOE Lightening shield and blades wiping out mobs right and left! It was featured on the News Tracker some months back!

Well up until recently my Sorc was a staff sorc, so the weapon using is still a bit new on him, Still finding my feet there. I haven't researched it (I like to find my own way), so I haven't run across this Electric Tornado Build, but it sounds good.

The article was linked to in the game launcher's news feed a few months ago. If you don't scroll down to read them it was easy to miss.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

I have been told that my character is me. I have a very nice, kind, generous character who is somewhat shy and one of my guildies said that I am the character because she could see the same in my ooc actions. So I am my own toon.

Jitterbug

Maotti_Nor wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Maotti_Nor wrote: »

My main character is a heavy armor dualwielding sorcerer. I have gotten a few wierd looks when in pug groups, but at least they give me a chance. And we manage to do the stuff aswell.

Well, you do have a spell that electrifies weapons, so dual weild makes sense.

Except i've never ever used it.

Ill definetly give it a go. Thanks for the tip.

best spell imo (i also melee sorc)

Jitterbug

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Maotti_Nor wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Maotti_Nor wrote: »

My main character is a heavy armor dualwielding sorcerer. I have gotten a few wierd looks when in pug groups, but at least they give me a chance. And we manage to do the stuff aswell.

Well, you do have a spell that electrifies weapons, so dual weild makes sense.

Except i've never ever used it.

Ill definetly give it a go. Thanks for the tip.

I have used it, still levelling it up, it's neither great nor bad, it does add to the punch your weapons give, but not excessively, and it's kind of short (in regards to time).

But when my Sorc is in trouble (he's levelling up sword and shield at the minute) it can give him a slight edge. With two weapons it should be better, at least I hope it would be (not tried dual weild with it yet).

it needs to morphed for heal
medium armor
dual daggers
steel tornado
FTW