Could consoles be bad for ESO?

EQOAnostalgia

ErythorBloodsheild wrote: »

Misa wrote: »

ErythorBloodsheild wrote: »

Really don't see how having the game on consoles hinder the game as a whole. Both new consoles could easily handle ESO and wouldn't need a stripped down version of the game. They can handle it. The only thing these consoles may have an issue with is the HDD space. But throw a portable HD in the USB port, and you've got yourself a whole dedicated HDD just for this game. I don't think content updates will roll out less frequently for PC once the console version is released. If anything, consoles will get updates/patches at a slower pace due to certification tests.

sadly you're wrong, even ffxiv is held back a bit because of ps4 limitations currently, though the game still works well

Doesn't mean ESO would be in the same boat. I know nothing about FF, so I can't really speak on that. But ESO clearly has a separate team dedicated to the development of the console versions. So I don't see any reason why the PC versions would suffer in any way.

It won't people are just being their usual paranoid selves.

Kharnis

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Kharnis wrote: »

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Of couse they are bad. Much of what we have in the game already was heavily influenced by having to accomodate console use. For example, the ui we have right now was very obviously tailored towards usability on consoles, and although they could never admit it, the "design decision" of limiting skillbars to 5 was very likely done for consoles too.

Everything else is pretty far out, but we can be sure that playability on consoles will of course continue to affect pc development.

Um...you do realise that the UI, and the "limited skills" was decided on, and finalised, long before Zenimax decided they were going to port the game to consoles, don't you? The whole reason they went with the UI they did was because it was the same UI used in all Elder Scrolls games previously, and they thought it would help to give this game an added "Elder Scrolls feel" for fans of the franchise.

The decision to go to consoles occured literally months before the game was about to launch, when all designs for the game had been finalised and were being tested to iron out the bugs before launch.

Actually... no. The UI is nowhere near close to "all Elder Scrolls games previously". ESO's UI only resembles Skyrim's UI, which was also the first TES game to be built concurrently with consoles in mind.

And no, the "decision to go to consoles" was not "literally months before the game was about to launch". It was planned from the beginning.

Swing and a miss. Thank you for participating though.

I'm afraid you're only correct on one thing, and even that is only a "sort of" correct: the console announcement wasn't "literally months before the game was about to launch." It was, however, announced literally months before the announcement of the release date. I mixed up the release announcement date with the launch date. My error, though in my defence it has been a while.

https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=344282470339989505

Just in case you were about to question that one again.

As for the "planned from the beginning" thing, I'm afraid that you're just plain wrong.

Q: The game currently is for PC and Mac and you've said you want it to run on laptops, so you're designing it to run on low-spec machines as well, but has there been any consideration at all given to the console world? There aren't too many MMOs on consoles, though SOE has tried to push it on PS3. The Elder Scrolls franchise has many fans on Xbox 360 and PS3, so were there ever any discussions on getting the game on Xbox Live, for example?

Matt Firor: That is a very long answer, as there are a lot of rumors swirling around the next-gen coming back together with PCs. I haven't seen any of that, but I read all the rumor sites just like everyone else. It seems like things are going back to a more standard platform. That being said, we haven't thought about it heavily right now. The worst thing you can do is worry about new platforms while in development. We want to do what we're doing right now and then look around for further opportunities. Certainly we're open to new opportunities, and we're going to be looking into new territories beyond North America and Europe.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-07-17-the-elder-scrolls-online-reinventing-a-franchise-in-an-online-world

Once again, just in case you wanted to doubt.

The whole reason why they decided to go to consoles in the first place was because Sony asked them to.

“It wasn’t intended that way,” Hines told us. “It was more just that when we were talking to the Sony guys, they were super excited about what we’re doing and what we can do together. They wanted to be big part of this. There’s been a big culture change at Sony. The folks that are there now, that we work with, are not the folks that we were working with a year or two ago. Guys like Adam Boyes and the team that he’s put together on the third-party side – which is who we interact with – I think are being super proactive at reaching out to us. They’re saying, ‘we love your games. I played Skyrim for 200 hours. I want to do more with you guys. What do you have going on?' Honestly, Adam was like, 'when can I come out and see everything that you’re making? I want to see everything you’re doing.’ Nobody had ever asked us that before. So just that dynamic is a little different.”

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/06/19/the-elder-scrolls-online-why-release-on-consoles

As for the UI, I'm afraid that, once again, you're wrong.

Game director Matt Firor mentions another reason for the slimmed down interface. "We made a lot of choices to make it very accessible to the player who's only experienced the console versions of The Elder Scrolls."

"Things like the interface is very minimalistic and it lets you concentrate on the world, not on the interface, so we made it feel much more like a console game from the interface side than an MMO, just for that reason, to make sure that everyone feels comfortable when they play it."

http://www.pcgamer.com/how-the-elder-scrolls-online-plans-to-improve-mmos-i-look-at-the-world-not-at-my-hotbar/

You have an...unusual definition of the phrase "swing and a miss."

Gidorick

Lionxoft wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

...In my opinion, PC development should always have a priority over console development. If the consoles can't handle the heat then get out of the kitchen type of thing. :P

yea... but there are SO many more players on Consoles than PC. Why would a publisher/developer put the priority on the minority of players?

As far as DCUO is concerned, 76% of players are playing on a PlayStation console.... You expect them to put extra resources to give extra content to 24% of the player base?

http://www.gamezone.com/news/76-of-dc-universe-online-players-play-on-a-playstation-console

First off, no one is asking for "Extra resources to give extra content" to anyone. I know that expecting different content development or experience on different platforms is probably out of the question and the title ends up being catered to the platform with the least capabilities and it's consoles. Consoles become outdated and there's only so much that they can handle. As I mention below I'd rather have ZOS drop support of the older platforms in order to keep the content and features coming.

MMO titles require new content and features added in order to maintain a subscription fee otherwise people just won't pay it. The consoles lack the resources to keep quality content and features coming. DCUO can add hardly any new features or content due to the shackles of the PS3 hardware. They are currently having to find areas to cut in order to stay within the limits of the hardware. The only way that this is working is because DCUO is a f2p game. If the game had a required subscription cost then it would not work. The subscription only model didn't work when the game was released and it certainly would not be a good model now.

Are you really pulling for Zenimax to eventually stop churning out quality content and new features due to the console's inability to scale hardware? I'd prefer them to drop support for hardware when it has become obsolete. The article that you listed states that 76% of the playerbase are playing on a console and of that number, 57% of them are playing on PS4 and while the rest on PS3.

So if this scenario were applicable to ZOS you would actually prefer them stop providing a quality experience worth your money each month for the population that failed to upgrade their hardware? Or would you prefer that support for older consoles be discontinued when a newer piece of hardware is made available?

Game development needs to be a movement forward. Old and underperforming hardware holds back progress.

I see you didn't read my other post...

Gidorick wrote: »

In response to the original post, I never really considered that an MMO released on a console is hindered by that console's lifecycle. I guess the option would be to shut down the console servers at one point and migrate to the new system. Perhaps DCUO will to that at some point. It's a great experience on the PS4....

I don't think ESO will do well on consoles, not for the reasons you mention, but because there are issues at it's core design. I mean... they're completely revamping the end game leveling system 7 months after release. Console players are very distractible and if a game is broke or isn't accessible from the get to, it's going to be left behind.

Sindala

I doubt we'd get many console players that would put up with the amount of down time we have. Not certain but if a game is downloading a 5GB+ patch on a console can you do anything else like we can with PC's? eg, go read forums for 10+hours

EQOAnostalgia

Sindala wrote: »

I doubt we'd get many console players that would put up with the amount of down time we have. Not certain but if a game is downloading a 5GB+ patch on a console can you do anything else like we can with PC's? eg, go read forums for 10+hours

i put up with an 11GB+ install for FFXIV TWICE once in PS3 and again when i upgraded to PS4, also DCUO twice with PS3 and PS4 lol. As for downtime i just hope it's not TOO bad. But i'm used to it.

Sindala

Lol, the install is over 70GB at the moment. That 5GB+ is just the average size of our patch updates every couple weeks.
Downtime is a few hours twice a week (if they can manage to turn the servers back on afterwards or they don't screw up the patch).

Lionxoft

Gidorick wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

...In my opinion, PC development should always have a priority over console development. If the consoles can't handle the heat then get out of the kitchen type of thing. :P

yea... but there are SO many more players on Consoles than PC. Why would a publisher/developer put the priority on the minority of players?

As far as DCUO is concerned, 76% of players are playing on a PlayStation console.... You expect them to put extra resources to give extra content to 24% of the player base?

http://www.gamezone.com/news/76-of-dc-universe-online-players-play-on-a-playstation-console

First off, no one is asking for "Extra resources to give extra content" to anyone. I know that expecting different content development or experience on different platforms is probably out of the question and the title ends up being catered to the platform with the least capabilities and it's consoles. Consoles become outdated and there's only so much that they can handle. As I mention below I'd rather have ZOS drop support of the older platforms in order to keep the content and features coming.

MMO titles require new content and features added in order to maintain a subscription fee otherwise people just won't pay it. The consoles lack the resources to keep quality content and features coming. DCUO can add hardly any new features or content due to the shackles of the PS3 hardware. They are currently having to find areas to cut in order to stay within the limits of the hardware. The only way that this is working is because DCUO is a f2p game. If the game had a required subscription cost then it would not work. The subscription only model didn't work when the game was released and it certainly would not be a good model now.

Are you really pulling for Zenimax to eventually stop churning out quality content and new features due to the console's inability to scale hardware? I'd prefer them to drop support for hardware when it has become obsolete. The article that you listed states that 76% of the playerbase are playing on a console and of that number, 57% of them are playing on PS4 and while the rest on PS3.

So if this scenario were applicable to ZOS you would actually prefer them stop providing a quality experience worth your money each month for the population that failed to upgrade their hardware? Or would you prefer that support for older consoles be discontinued when a newer piece of hardware is made available?

Game development needs to be a movement forward. Old and underperforming hardware holds back progress.

I see you didn't read my other post...

Gidorick wrote: »

In response to the original post, I never really considered that an MMO released on a console is hindered by that console's lifecycle. I guess the option would be to shut down the console servers at one point and migrate to the new system. Perhaps DCUO will to that at some point. It's a great experience on the PS4....

I don't think ESO will do well on consoles, not for the reasons you mention, but because there are issues at it's core design. I mean... they're completely revamping the end game leveling system 7 months after release. Console players are very distractible and if a game is broke or isn't accessible from the get to, it's going to be left behind.

I saw your post that followed it after the fact.

Lionxoft

ErythorBloodsheild wrote: »

Misa wrote: »

ErythorBloodsheild wrote: »

Really don't see how having the game on consoles hinder the game as a whole. Both new consoles could easily handle ESO and wouldn't need a stripped down version of the game. They can handle it. The only thing these consoles may have an issue with is the HDD space. But throw a portable HD in the USB port, and you've got yourself a whole dedicated HDD just for this game. I don't think content updates will roll out less frequently for PC once the console version is released. If anything, consoles will get updates/patches at a slower pace due to certification tests.

sadly you're wrong, even ffxiv is held back a bit because of ps4 limitations currently, though the game still works well

Doesn't mean ESO would be in the same boat. I know nothing about FF, so I can't really speak on that. But ESO clearly has a separate team dedicated to the development of the console versions. So I don't see any reason why the PC versions would suffer in any way.

You think they will retain that team or part of it once the game has been released and on production for a bit?

JKorr

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Kharnis wrote: »

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Of couse they are bad. Much of what we have in the game already was heavily influenced by having to accomodate console use. For example, the ui we have right now was very obviously tailored towards usability on consoles, and although they could never admit it, the "design decision" of limiting skillbars to 5 was very likely done for consoles too.

Everything else is pretty far out, but we can be sure that playability on consoles will of course continue to affect pc development.

Um...you do realise that the UI, and the "limited skills" was decided on, and finalised, long before Zenimax decided they were going to port the game to consoles, don't you? The whole reason they went with the UI they did was because it was the same UI used in all Elder Scrolls games previously, and they thought it would help to give this game an added "Elder Scrolls feel" for fans of the franchise.

The decision to go to consoles occured literally months before the game was about to launch, when all designs for the game had been finalised and were being tested to iron out the bugs before launch.

Actually... no. The UI is nowhere near close to "all Elder Scrolls games previously". ESO's UI only resembles Skyrim's UI, which was also the first TES game to be built concurrently with consoles in mind.

And no, the "decision to go to consoles" was not "literally months before the game was about to launch". It was planned from the beginning.

Swing and a miss. Thank you for participating though.

Yep. It was planned for everything right from the start. That's why the first, or one of the first announcements specified PC and Mac.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120510110944/http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/03/june-cover-revealed-the-elder-scrolls-online.aspx

In September 2012 the FAQ still says
What do I need to play The Elder Scrolls Online?
You'll need a PC or Mac and an active internet connection at all times to play the game. Exact system specifications will be released at a later date.
https://web.archive.org/web/20120923174540/http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/faq

Obviously the money grubbing devs planned for every platform from the beginning. You can see it on their own website. [I love the Wayback Machine.]

Oh, wait. A year after, in 2013, the announcement came that the game would come out on the consoles. Bethesda, the publisher, still had no concrete plans to bring it to the consoles until Sony. http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/09/07/sony-pushed-for-the-elder-scrolls-online-to-come-to-consoles

Never let facts stand in the way of a good rant. [would that be a foul ball, or an error? Whatever. ]