Could consoles be bad for ESO?

Lionxoft

Let's first start off with stating that I really support a *multi platform experience for ESO and I think it could be a lot of fun. There was a concern that I had in regards to memory and what if the game outgrew the resources of the current generation of consoles being PS4/XBOne.

This has happened with DCUO and it has stalled their active development (on all platforms) in adding "Powers" which are essentially our equivalent to classes while also stalling quality content development. They often use the excuse of running out of memory or that the PS3 console just doesn't have the resources. Granted, they are talking about PS3 however DCUO is only about 3 years old approaching it's 4th year. Now, this could just be a cop out by SOE and I wouldn't be surprised if it was but it raised the question.

In regards to Elder Scrolls Online, what would the PS4 and XBox One consoles bring to the table 4 years later or less? Will ESO sacrifice PC development due to outdated consoles? Will ESO be quick to exile the PS4/XBOne and move on to the next generation of consoles after the PS4/XBONE?


*"Multi Platform" does not mean same servers.

guybrushtb16_ESO

Of couse they are bad. Much of what we have in the game already was heavily influenced by having to accomodate console use. For example, the ui we have right now was very obviously tailored towards usability on consoles, and although they could never admit it, the "design decision" of limiting skillbars to 5 was very likely done for consoles too.

Everything else is pretty far out, but we can be sure that playability on consoles will of course continue to affect pc development.

AlexDougherty

PC servers and Console Servers would be seperate, so no reason to make sacrifices on PC format for the sake of Consoles. I suspect that Console versions if they every launch, will be different to the PC version (no I'm not going to guess how).

The main issues are that apparently the Console versions aren't stable, and neither Microsoft nor Sony are willing to sanction a bugged version of the game. Add to that the fact both will want it done through their gaming sites, and probably don't want a subscription base, and you probably have enough delays for it to come out on the Xbox two and PS5.

Lionxoft

AlexDougherty wrote: »

PC servers and Console Servers would be seperate, so no reason to make sacrifices on PC format for the sake of Consoles. I suspect that Console versions if they every launch, will be different to the PC version (no I'm not going to guess how).

The main issues are that apparently the Console versions aren't stable, and neither Microsoft nor Sony are willing to sanction a bugged version of the game. Add to that the fact both will want it done through their gaming sites, and probably don't want a subscription base, and you probably have enough delays for it to come out on the Xbox two and PS5.

Do you think they have the budget to upkeep the separate development? Also, the PS3/4 have a subscription based game in DCUO. It might market f2p but in reality it's a cash grabbing subscription game lol. I don't think it's the sub cost that is holding it back from release. Probably Zenimax just wants to wait until Champ system is fully in place and maybe the justice system too. I can't blame them there. That's my guess.

nerevarine1138

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Of couse they are bad. Much of what we have in the game already was heavily influenced by having to accomodate console use. For example, the ui we have right now was very obviously tailored towards usability on consoles, and although they could never admit it, the "design decision" of limiting skillbars to 5 was very likely done for consoles too.

Everything else is pretty far out, but we can be sure that playability on consoles will of course continue to affect pc development.

Just like the GW2 limited actionbar was designed for consoles! And how anything with a minimalist UI just couldn't handle not being on a console! Because consoles ruin things! OMG!

Lionxoft

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Of couse they are bad. Much of what we have in the game already was heavily influenced by having to accomodate console use. For example, the ui we have right now was very obviously tailored towards usability on consoles, and although they could never admit it, the "design decision" of limiting skillbars to 5 was very likely done for consoles too.

Everything else is pretty far out, but we can be sure that playability on consoles will of course continue to affect pc development.

I don't really mind the skill bar. It's different but I like how I have to choose which skills my build utilizes. It's not everyone's cup of tea but I enjoy it the way it is currently. If I could have every skill available then it would remove a layer of the character building choice I enjoy. My opinion. There's a bunch that disagree and that's totally cool.

I'm not really concerned about the UI all that much because I can live with it. If the game's development (EG: classes, skill lines, weapons, styles, features such as housing, new quality content etc.) stutters due to a necessity to accomodate the consoles I'd be kind of ticked off.

Playing DCUO before this game made me wish that all the PS3 in the world would fry at the same time. I've seen MMO development be hindered by a console for an MMO. It's such a bad experience and if they choose to stall the development of the PC for the consoles I'd probably cry. Haha!

In my opinion, PC development should always have a priority over console development. If the consoles can't handle the heat then get out of the kitchen type of thing. :P

Enkil

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Of couse they are bad. Much of what we have in the game already was heavily influenced by having to accomodate console use. For example, the ui we have right now was very obviously tailored towards usability on consoles, and although they could never admit it, the "design decision" of limiting skillbars to 5 was very likely done for consoles too.

Everything else is pretty far out, but we can be sure that playability on consoles will of course continue to affect pc development.

^this. Players with an entire keyboard are limited to 6 actions buttons to accommodate console players. I welcome those players but I think they don't want it to be as dumbed down as has been done. 5+1 action buttons? That's total BS. They could have used the Final Fantasy online as a model and made for a much more robust and diverse combat system that works well across all platforms.

CapuchinSeven

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Of couse they are bad. Much of what we have in the game already was heavily influenced by having to accomodate console use. For example, the ui we have right now was very obviously tailored towards usability on consoles, and although they could never admit it, the "design decision" of limiting skillbars to 5 was very likely done for consoles too.

Everything else is pretty far out, but we can be sure that playability on consoles will of course continue to affect pc development.

Just like the GW2 limited actionbar was designed for consoles! And how anything with a minimalist UI just couldn't handle not being on a console! Because consoles ruin things! OMG!

No, there are differences to the GW2 system that show it's not built for consoles. As the person you are quoting said, it was LIKELY done for consoles, every single thing about the ESO UI feels like it's for consoles even if it wasn't their main reason you feel like it was a big factor, it just stinks of consoles and yes as a PC and an XBOX One owner console games ruin PC games and hold them back constantly.

bosmern_ESO

It would slow updates by a pretty heavy chunk. Updates would be coming out faster and with less bugs if they didnt have a large portion on the team working on the console versions.

I also don't think many console players will be familiar with an MMO and they wont know how they play it. Most of them need to be pulled in right away, they aren't used to having to work to have fun in the game. In console games when you get it, thats it. Do the story and play online which will usually hold you over. But for a MMO you start from nothing, you have to build your character up and once you get to endgame you start to really have fun.

AlexDougherty

Lionxoft wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

PC servers and Console Servers would be seperate, so no reason to make sacrifices on PC format for the sake of Consoles. I suspect that Console versions if they every launch, will be different to the PC version (no I'm not going to guess how).

The main issues are that apparently the Console versions aren't stable, and neither Microsoft nor Sony are willing to sanction a bugged version of the game. Add to that the fact both will want it done through their gaming sites, and probably don't want a subscription base, and you probably have enough delays for it to come out on the Xbox two and PS5.

Do you think they have the budget to upkeep the separate development? Also, the PS3/4 have a subscription based game in DCUO. It might market f2p but in reality it's a cash grabbing subscription game lol. I don't think it's the sub cost that is holding it back from release. Probably Zenimax just wants to wait until Champ system is fully in place and maybe the justice system too. I can't blame them there. That's my guess.

Do I think they have the budget for seperate development, probably not.

As for the rest, you make a good point or two, not sure I'm changing my mind, but I'll think about what you said.

Kharnis

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Of couse they are bad. Much of what we have in the game already was heavily influenced by having to accomodate console use. For example, the ui we have right now was very obviously tailored towards usability on consoles, and although they could never admit it, the "design decision" of limiting skillbars to 5 was very likely done for consoles too.

Everything else is pretty far out, but we can be sure that playability on consoles will of course continue to affect pc development.

Um...you do realise that the UI, and the "limited skills" was decided on, and finalised, long before Zenimax decided they were going to port the game to consoles, don't you? The whole reason they went with the UI they did was because it was the same UI used in all Elder Scrolls games previously, and they thought it would help to give this game an added "Elder Scrolls feel" for fans of the franchise.

The decision to go to consoles occured literally months before the game was about to launch, when all designs for the game had been finalised and were being tested to iron out the bugs before launch.

Gidorick

Lionxoft wrote: »

...In my opinion, PC development should always have a priority over console development. If the consoles can't handle the heat then get out of the kitchen type of thing. :P

yea... but there are SO many more players on Consoles than PC. Why would a publisher/developer put the priority on the minority of players?

As far as DCUO is concerned, 76% of players are playing on a PlayStation console.... You expect them to put extra resources to give extra content to 24% of the player base?

http://www.gamezone.com/news/76-of-dc-universe-online-players-play-on-a-playstation-console

DenverRalphy

Kharnis wrote: »

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Of couse they are bad. Much of what we have in the game already was heavily influenced by having to accomodate console use. For example, the ui we have right now was very obviously tailored towards usability on consoles, and although they could never admit it, the "design decision" of limiting skillbars to 5 was very likely done for consoles too.

Everything else is pretty far out, but we can be sure that playability on consoles will of course continue to affect pc development.

Um...you do realise that the UI, and the "limited skills" was decided on, and finalised, long before Zenimax decided they were going to port the game to consoles, don't you? The whole reason they went with the UI they did was because it was the same UI used in all Elder Scrolls games previously, and they thought it would help to give this game an added "Elder Scrolls feel" for fans of the franchise.

The decision to go to consoles occured literally months before the game was about to launch, when all designs for the game had been finalised and were being tested to iron out the bugs before launch.

Actually... no. The UI is nowhere near close to "all Elder Scrolls games previously". ESO's UI only resembles Skyrim's UI, which was also the first TES game to be built concurrently with consoles in mind.

And no, the "decision to go to consoles" was not "literally months before the game was about to launch". It was planned from the beginning.

Swing and a miss. Thank you for participating though.

Gidorick

In response to the original post, I never really considered that an MMO released on a console is hindered by that console's lifecycle. I guess the option would be to shut down the console servers at one point and migrate to the new system. Perhaps DCUO will to that at some point. It's a great experience on the PS4....

I don't think ESO will do well on consoles, not for the reasons you mention, but because there are issues at it's core design. I mean... they're completely revamping the end game leveling system 7 months after release. Console players are very distractible and if a game is broke or isn't accessible from the get to, it's going to be left behind.

Lionxoft

Gidorick wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

...In my opinion, PC development should always have a priority over console development. If the consoles can't handle the heat then get out of the kitchen type of thing. :P

yea... but there are SO many more players on Consoles than PC. Why would a publisher/developer put the priority on the minority of players?

As far as DCUO is concerned, 76% of players are playing on a PlayStation console.... You expect them to put extra resources to give extra content to 24% of the player base?

http://www.gamezone.com/news/76-of-dc-universe-online-players-play-on-a-playstation-console

First off, no one is asking for "Extra resources to give extra content" to anyone. I know that expecting different content development or experience on different platforms is probably out of the question and the title ends up being catered to the platform with the least capabilities and it's consoles. Consoles become outdated and there's only so much that they can handle. As I mention below I'd rather have ZOS drop support of the older platforms in order to keep the content and features coming.

MMO titles require new content and features added in order to maintain a subscription fee otherwise people just won't pay it. The consoles lack the resources to keep quality content and features coming. DCUO can add hardly any new features or content due to the shackles of the PS3 hardware. They are currently having to find areas to cut in order to stay within the limits of the hardware. The only way that this is working is because DCUO is a f2p game. If the game had a required subscription cost then it would not work. The subscription only model didn't work when the game was released and it certainly would not be a good model now.

Are you really pulling for Zenimax to eventually stop churning out quality content and new features due to the console's inability to scale hardware? I'd prefer them to drop support for hardware when it has become obsolete. The article that you listed states that 76% of the playerbase are playing on a console and of that number, 57% of them are playing on PS4 and while the rest on PS3.

So if this scenario were applicable to ZOS you would actually prefer them stop providing a quality experience worth your money each month for the population that failed to upgrade their hardware? Or would you prefer that support for older consoles be discontinued when a newer piece of hardware is made available?

Game development needs to be a movement forward. Old and underperforming hardware holds back progress.

Mordria

Gidorick wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

...In my opinion, PC development should always have a priority over console development. If the consoles can't handle the heat then get out of the kitchen type of thing. :P

yea... but there are SO many more players on Consoles than PC. Why would a publisher/developer put the priority on the minority of players?

As far as DCUO is concerned, 76% of players are playing on a PlayStation console.... You expect them to put extra resources to give extra content to 24% of the player base?

http://www.gamezone.com/news/76-of-dc-universe-online-players-play-on-a-playstation-console

That really isn't saying much. I've played DC universe. Maybe the reason is because there are much better PC games that PC gamers would rather play.

ers101284b14_ESO

Final fantasy XI still gets PS2 support. Just throwing that out there.

Lionxoft

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Final fantasy XI still gets PS2 support. Just throwing that out there.

Will it's latest expansion be available on PS2?

ers101284b14_ESO

Lionxoft wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Final fantasy XI still gets PS2 support. Just throwing that out there.

Will it's latest expansion be available on PS2?

Actually yes it is.

But I do believe it is the last one for ps2

Lionxoft

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Final fantasy XI still gets PS2 support. Just throwing that out there.

Will it's latest expansion be available on PS2?

Actually yes it is.

But I do believe it is the last one for ps2

I believe the most recent expansion didn't release on PS2. The scope of ESO is vastly different than FFXI as well.

ers101284b14_ESO

Lionxoft wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Final fantasy XI still gets PS2 support. Just throwing that out there.

Will it's latest expansion be available on PS2?

Actually yes it is.

But I do believe it is the last one for ps2

I believe the most recent expansion didn't release on PS2. The scope of ESO is vastly different than FFXI as well.

The last Expansion for FFXI was seekers of Aldouin which released last year and yes did release on PS2

but only in Japan. But I think the NA base dropped after FF14 ARR. So that might have been why it was not released in NA for PS2.

Lionxoft

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Final fantasy XI still gets PS2 support. Just throwing that out there.

Will it's latest expansion be available on PS2?

Actually yes it is.

But I do believe it is the last one for ps2

I believe the most recent expansion didn't release on PS2. The scope of ESO is vastly different than FFXI as well.

The last Expansion for FFXI was seekers of Aldouin which released last year and yes did release on PS2

but only in Japan. But I think the NA base dropped after FF14 ARR. So that might have been why it was not released in NA for PS2.

Yup. It was the last expansion/game for the PS2 in Asia.

ers101284b14_ESO

Lionxoft wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Final fantasy XI still gets PS2 support. Just throwing that out there.

Will it's latest expansion be available on PS2?

Actually yes it is.

But I do believe it is the last one for ps2

I believe the most recent expansion didn't release on PS2. The scope of ESO is vastly different than FFXI as well.

The last Expansion for FFXI was seekers of Aldouin which released last year and yes did release on PS2

but only in Japan. But I think the NA base dropped after FF14 ARR. So that might have been why it was not released in NA for PS2.

Yup. It was the last expansion/game for the PS2 in Asia.

Hahaha. This is one of very few times where we can disagree and both be right and wrong.

Back on topic no console will not be bad for it. considering that this console generation may not last as long as people hope there is a good chance they can make it for the next gen after this one and then do another transfer. Also the console version will be toned down even if the game has the same content.

Lionxoft

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Final fantasy XI still gets PS2 support. Just throwing that out there.

Will it's latest expansion be available on PS2?

Actually yes it is.

But I do believe it is the last one for ps2

I believe the most recent expansion didn't release on PS2. The scope of ESO is vastly different than FFXI as well.

The last Expansion for FFXI was seekers of Aldouin which released last year and yes did release on PS2

but only in Japan. But I think the NA base dropped after FF14 ARR. So that might have been why it was not released in NA for PS2.

Yup. It was the last expansion/game for the PS2 in Asia.

Hahaha. This is one of very few times where we can disagree and both be right and wrong.

I suppose so haha.

I just know that if I'm going to be expected to pay $15 a month then in return I expect a game that progresses and delivers new content and features. I don't want to hear the excuse of "Well, the xyz console doesn't have enough memory so we can't do what we had planned." even though the PC and newer consoles can handle it.

ers101284b14_ESO

Well then you might wanna play on PS4 and start saving up for that 2 terabyte hard drive lol. I believe the Memory should have enough especailyl since they designed it to run on 5 year old PCs.

Lionxoft

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Well then you might wanna play on PS4 and start saving up for that 2 terabyte hard drive lol. I believe the Memory should have enough especailyl since they designed it to run on 5 year old PCs.

I play on PC. I'm set to go for a long time haha.

ErythorBloodsheild

Really don't see how having the game on consoles hinder the game as a whole. Both new consoles could easily handle ESO and wouldn't need a stripped down version of the game. They can handle it. The only thing these consoles may have an issue with is the HDD space. But throw a portable HD in the USB port, and you've got yourself a whole dedicated HDD just for this game. I don't think content updates will roll out less frequently for PC once the console version is released. If anything, consoles will get updates/patches at a slower pace due to certification tests.

EQOAnostalgia

The skill bar isn't really an issue imo. When i play a TES game i don't want 50 cooldowns on my screen and i never have... i've played games like WoW and EverQuest 2 where all you do is stare at cooldowns and spam a ton of abilities, it stopped being fun for me years ago! I think FFXIV ARR does the whole skill bar thing very, very well on consoles, i think they have a fair amount of skills, i don't want skills to get in the way of the action.

Also there are console gamers who know mmorpg's... my first mmorpg was EverQuest Online Adventures for PS2 back in 2003... so it's not like mmorpg's are new to consoles, it's just a lot of people don't seem to know how long they've been around. I mean Dreamcast has PSO. I don't think PS4/Xbone are going to slow down ESO at all.

People on FFXIV were worried about the same thing and PS3 support is being killed off soon as to not hold us back, FFXI did the very same thing with PS2 support! People will most likely have to upgrade to PS5 or what have you. Don't lose too much sleep over consoles slowing ESO down because i highly doubt it's going to be an issue.

Misa

ErythorBloodsheild wrote: »

Really don't see how having the game on consoles hinder the game as a whole. Both new consoles could easily handle ESO and wouldn't need a stripped down version of the game. They can handle it. The only thing these consoles may have an issue with is the HDD space. But throw a portable HD in the USB port, and you've got yourself a whole dedicated HDD just for this game. I don't think content updates will roll out less frequently for PC once the console version is released. If anything, consoles will get updates/patches at a slower pace due to certification tests.

sadly you're wrong, even ffxiv is held back a bit because of ps4 limitations currently, though the game still works well

EQOAnostalgia

Misa wrote: »

ErythorBloodsheild wrote: »

Really don't see how having the game on consoles hinder the game as a whole. Both new consoles could easily handle ESO and wouldn't need a stripped down version of the game. They can handle it. The only thing these consoles may have an issue with is the HDD space. But throw a portable HD in the USB port, and you've got yourself a whole dedicated HDD just for this game. I don't think content updates will roll out less frequently for PC once the console version is released. If anything, consoles will get updates/patches at a slower pace due to certification tests.

sadly you're wrong, even ffxiv is held back a bit because of ps4 limitations currently, though the game still works well

Please explain how it's held back by PS4... because it's not at all, and the amount of updates they have had is staggering!

ErythorBloodsheild

Misa wrote: »

ErythorBloodsheild wrote: »

Really don't see how having the game on consoles hinder the game as a whole. Both new consoles could easily handle ESO and wouldn't need a stripped down version of the game. They can handle it. The only thing these consoles may have an issue with is the HDD space. But throw a portable HD in the USB port, and you've got yourself a whole dedicated HDD just for this game. I don't think content updates will roll out less frequently for PC once the console version is released. If anything, consoles will get updates/patches at a slower pace due to certification tests.

sadly you're wrong, even ffxiv is held back a bit because of ps4 limitations currently, though the game still works well

Doesn't mean ESO would be in the same boat. I know nothing about FF, so I can't really speak on that. But ESO clearly has a separate team dedicated to the development of the console versions. So I don't see any reason why the PC versions would suffer in any way.