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Dungeons & Group Content General Slightly decreased the power and health...
Islyn
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Dungeons & Group Content
General
Slightly decreased the power and health of all monsters in dungeons that have been scaled to Veteran Rank 1 and higher.
Boo. Rather stretch time between add phases a touch and leave bosses As Is.
Edited by Islyn on November 24, 2014 3:32PM General
Slightly decreased the power and health of all monsters in dungeons that have been scaled to Veteran Rank 1 and higher.
Boo. Rather stretch time between add phases a touch and leave bosses As Is.
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Flaminir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The key word in that sentence being 'Slightly'.
Will be interesting to see by how much, and how its affected the stats of the bosses.GM of the Unholy LegacyEU/EPSorcerer Flaminir (Magicka) / Staminir (Stamina)
Templar Elixiia (Magicka/Healer) / Lotti Velooni (Magicka)
DragonKnight Xalora Flaminar (Tank) / Unholy-Dragon-Toad (Tank)
Nightblade Aimee Owlious (Magicka) / Myttens (Stamina)
Warden: Frosti-Tute (Magicka/Healer) Boops-Many-Snoots (Stamina/Tank)3 -
Islyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yep - but slightly always seems to be A LOT.
Like when you get a trim at the salon and go home with short hair.2 -
Gythral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭At a guess sightly reduced is ZOS for made then 4x tougher
“Be as a tower, that, firmly set,
Shakes not its top for any blast that blows!”
Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy7 -
ThatNeonZebraAgain✭✭✭✭✭Yeah not sure what "slightly" consists of (probably just a few percentage points), but in my experience it was only certain boss mechanics that pick-up groups had a hard time getting past, not necessarily the monsters themselves per se. If this allows me to complete Vet dungeons/pledges more often so I can level up Undaunted because ZOS doesn't appear interested in back-crediting experience for it, then I'm okay with it (even though I'd rather just have it back-credited).Edited by ThatNeonZebraAgain on November 24, 2014 3:37PMGore-of-the-Forest Argonian Nightblade
Wode Earthrender Breton Dragonknight
Ceol the Last Baron Redguard Dragonknight
Wayra High Elf Sorceress
Erebain Salothran Dark Elf Templar
Rituals-of-the-Forest Argonian Warden3 -
Islyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah dude, i get that - because of having done ALL ACHIEVEMENTS before this
- rollout ;-/ but still. It is not the HP of the Boss I have seen people have issues with - it is getting the adds down (dps raaace!) before they get swarmed by more or not getting the boss down before Enrage, etc.Edited by Islyn on November 24, 2014 3:38PM1 -
Merrak✭✭✭Where did all those whiners...I mean lovely people run off to? I'm going to have them march on ZOS to fix Templar Regen and DPS.Merrak | Templar Main
The Descendants | NA Server | Daggerfall Covenant5 -
Mud_Puppy✭✭✭So. they nerfed challenging content again.That's what we know.
Personally I'm getting fed up at this point. One step forward with pledges and scaling, now this. FFS/kill5 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Depends on how much "slightly" is, it could be not that bad. It's annoying to spend forever on boss and/or trash pulls after you figure all the mechanics and everything and just have to repeat it again and again and again because they have so much health now.
Reducing it too much will make it easy mode where people can just ignore all the mechanics again, reducing it just a bit will just make it slightly faster, which is not a bad thing.
I'm also not sure if it refers to both veteran and normal dungeons, or just normal, as they all can scale to "vet 1 and higher" now.0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So. they nerfed challenging content again.That's what we know.
Personally I'm getting fed up at this point. One step forward with pledges and scaling, now this. FFS
Sorry, but when you are getting one-shot by regular V4 spiders in Fungal Grotto when you are a non-werewolf V9, there may be something wrong with scaling.
Just run the dungeons at V12 if you want challenge. In fact, ask ZOS to scale them to V14 or higher.
But when a dungeon is tougher at V4 than it was at the original V5, then 'scaling' is really not the right word.The Moot Councillor11 -
Mud_Puppy✭✭✭So. they nerfed challenging content again.That's what we know.
Personally I'm getting fed up at this point. One step forward with pledges and scaling, now this. FFS
Sorry, but when you are getting one-shot by regular V4 spiders in Fungal Grotto when you are a non-werewolf V9, there may be something wrong with scaling.
Just run the dungeons at V12 if you want challenge. In fact, ask ZOS to scale them to V14 or higher.
But when a dungeon is tougher at V4 than it was at the original V5, then 'scaling' is really not the right word.
Being 1 shot is fine. Unless your telling me your tank is getting oneshot while blocking?
EDIT:spellingEdited by Mud_Puppy on November 24, 2014 4:39PM/kill0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So. they nerfed challenging content again.That's what we know.
Personally I'm getting fed up at this point. One step forward with pledges and scaling, now this. FFS
Sorry, but when you are getting one-shot by regular V4 spiders in Fungal Grotto when you are a non-werewolf V9, there may be something wrong with scaling.
Just run the dungeons at V12 if you want challenge. In fact, ask ZOS to scale them to V14 or higher.
But when a dungeon is tougher at V4 than it was at the original V5, then 'scaling' is really not the right word.
Being 1 shot is fine. Unless your telling me your tank is getting oneshot while blocking?
EDIT:spelling
Being 1-shot by a boss is one thing. When thrash mobs that are 5 levels below you do it, there may be something wrong. Particularly since I ran this dungeon when I was V3 or V4 and the mobs were V5 and that didn't happen, and our group this time had a top-notch healer.The Moot Councillor2 -
LonePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭So. they nerfed challenging content again.That's what we know.
Personally I'm getting fed up at this point. One step forward with pledges and scaling, now this. FFS
That's some excessive outrage.
With 1.5, they scaled all dungeon mobs to VR12 for most players. So those mobs in yesterday's non-vet pledge for Blackheart Haven went from 40something to VR12. If today's change make them closer to what VR11.5 was before the patch, then the change is certainly nothing to merit the level of outrage you exhibited.1 -
Evaflys✭✭I actually noticed that the bosses with those ridiculous adds are the toughest. They either spawn too fast or the whole lot of them do a ton of damage each on one person that's the killer. Other then that, the other parts of the dungeons are fine as is.
Doing bosses and the normal mobs throughout those scaled VR dungeons are fine in my opinion, I think they just needed to fix the bosses that spawn adds as the OP suggested. I was in a group doing a VR1 vet dungeon with my VR14 main and was pretty much getting our butts whooped by the boss with adds (Garion? something like that).
Which is kind of strange. I believe Vet Wayrest was originally a VR5 dungeon before the scaled dungeon patch and the add boss wasn't THAT much of a pain. If they fix the bosses with adds, I'd be one happy Nord.~All DC Characters~
Nord Traitor - For the Covenant!
Esa Wolfsbane - VR16 Nord Templar
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Elsanna Spell-Singer - VR16 Breton Sorceror
Cornelia Scipionis Alexia - VR 3 Imperial Dragonknight3 -
YAY - Dungeon and Group Content made Slightly less fun - nice.... what a mistake.5 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
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I believe you mean Garon the lich. Wayrest was orignally vet 10, and the ads were a joke, I think their health has been near tripped now. It turns the fight into a bit of a dps race - how fast can your group down the ads - but I actually kinda like that. Imo it's one of toughest monent in whole Wayrest now, and it's really more about coordinaton than pure dps - your group HAS to focus ads, ulti ads, pull ads together and aoe them etc or it's a wipe.I actually noticed that the bosses with those ridiculous adds are the toughest. They either spawn too fast or the whole lot of them do a ton of damage each on one person that's the killer. Other then that, the other parts of the dungeons are fine as is.
Doing bosses and the normal mobs throughout those scaled VR dungeons are fine in my opinion, I think they just needed to fix the bosses that spawn adds as the OP suggested. I was in a group doing a VR1 vet dungeon with my VR14 main and was pretty much getting our butts whooped by the boss with adds (Garion? something like that).
Which is kind of strange. I believe Vet Wayrest was originally a VR5 dungeon before the scaled dungeon patch and the add boss wasn't THAT much of a pain. If they fix the bosses with adds, I'd be one happy Nord.
Edited by Magdalina on November 24, 2014 4:59PM2 -
AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭Some of the VR14 scaled bosses were a little weird. Hopefully this will help, I'm thinking of the 3rd in spindle with all the adds, the 2nd in BC with the electric blobs, and the last of Black Heart. Usually it wasn't the final boss that was the problem but one of the earlier bosses that scaled oddly.
I have never not been able to finish them before the patch but some of them were harder than the last 4 fights in Vet Arena.“Whatever.”
-Unknown American0 -
Merrak✭✭✭AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »Some of the VR14 scaled bosses were a little weird. Hopefully this will help, I'm thinking of the 3rd in spindle with all the adds, the 2nd in BC with the electric blobs, and the last of Black Heart. Usually it wasn't the final boss that was the problem but one of the earlier bosses that scaled oddly.
I have never not been able to finish them before the patch but some of them were harder than the last 4 fights in Vet Arena.
Third boss in Spindle isn't bad if you follow mechanics and use class abilities to combat the mechanics of the fight. One Sorc with Negate, a Templar with Nova, DK with Talons, or a NB with Veil...it's all manageable. But the problem is, a lot of people didn't want to follow mechanics.Merrak | Templar Main
The Descendants | NA Server | Daggerfall Covenant2 -
PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I bet that an unintended after effect of this dungeon hp/power nerf is some weird huge hp/power/speed buff for some random trash in some of the VR1-5 delve.
ESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)0 -
niocwy✭✭✭Whiners won again.
Well I guess I'm left with DSA vet for some challenge. Wait...it was nerfed too.
*sigh*Look at my profile picture. Visualize that muffin...smelling it...taking a bite...
Are you hungry now ?
Good.2 -
Dagoth_Rac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The first spider add in Vet Spindle (Swarm Mother Nightmare) used to have 16000 health and final spider add (Whisperer Nightmare) had 17000. Now they have 75000 health and 25000 health, respectively. And this is at VR2! And then there are multiple humanoid adds (Big Rabbu Nightmare and Widow Maker Nightmare) with 75000 health. They used to have 4000 health! Not 40,000, 4,000. So boss adds that used to have 41,000 combined health at VR5 now have 250,000 combined health at VR2!
I am sorry, but this is flat out broken. I am sure they wanted to buff Vet Dungeon mobs, but they can't have meant 4000 health adds to jump to 75000. I have no idea if this is what they fixed today, but stop whining about nerfing. The scaling is broken. This is a bug fix, not a buff/nerf issue.10 -
cracker81✭✭✭To me VR 11/12 Veteran dungeons are in the right spot but the VR 1-5 and VR 6-10 are not or were not.. I do believe a few issue with VR1 to VR5 due to the scaling was scaling up instead of down. The Issue of VR6-10 I would keep the same just slow adds coming out. Then you would have all difficulties as in beyond easy (Normal VR 1-5), Easy (Normal VR 6-10), Normal (Normal VR 11/12), Normal (Vet VR1-5), Hard (Vet6-10), and Very Hard (Vet 11/12). I would think that would make more ppl happy. Now doing that I would say undaunted pledge would give more for the hardest content.1 -
Aeratus✭✭✭✭✭As I mentioned in many other threads, the dungeons weren't simply "scaled," because even COH scaled to v1 is harder than the original COH at the native v12. Thus, using the term "scaling" is completely wrong.
The two adds in the 3rd boss in spindle before the current minipatch each had 100k HP, when scaled to v12. That's some HPs right there to keep your dps's busy!Edited by Aeratus on November 24, 2014 6:46PM5 -
its not really that they are harder what bothers me,what i dont like is that even without wipes the dungeons are taking longer and i want to farm some of them also do things other than dungeons.Im good with the decrease og health0 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭They screwed up by buffing bosses and adds in the same patch where they implemented scaling.
Do one at a time, and you have a baseline, and you can make adjustments up or down from there...
Then, when that part is right, and working as intended, you add the other and adjust again.
To be honest, I think both side are probably right. I don't think two instances, however they may have been supposed to have worked, were ever the same.
I think the idea was, and is sound, but couple double-implemenation with 'we think it works like this,' and this is the end result.
I suspect the minor adjustment is just that. Assuming it works, they'll monitor and adjust again, as needed - which is what should be happening until the difficulty slider is actually implemented.
It's a clue, though, when (Last ESO Live) 2 devs + 2 more experienced people cannot clear a Level 40 'normal' dungeon scaled to VR12, with four VR14's, unless you're suggesting the Dev's need to L2P?
Again, whether it the actual implementation of the scaling, or some background bug, completely unassociated, when seasoned dungeon runners, Arena Champs, and successful Trials regulars are saying WTH, something's not right.
Hopefully this fixes it.
If you want a push for harder content, push ZoS to add the difficulty setting, in addition to the scaling. It would cure both issues at once.Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS4 -
Goresnort✭✭✭Dagoth_Rac wrote: »The first spider add in Vet Spindle (Swarm Mother Nightmare) used to have 16000 health and final spider add (Whisperer Nightmare) had 17000. Now they have 75000 health and 25000 health, respectively. And this is at VR2! And then there are multiple humanoid adds (Big Rabbu Nightmare and Widow Maker Nightmare) with 75000 health. They used to have 4000 health! Not 40,000, 4,000. So boss adds that used to have 41,000 combined health at VR5 now have 250,000 combined health at VR2!
I am sorry, but this is flat out broken. I am sure they wanted to buff Vet Dungeon mobs, but they can't have meant 4000 health adds to jump to 75000. I have no idea if this is what they fixed today, but stop whining about nerfing. The scaling is broken. This is a bug fix, not a buff/nerf issue.
Thank you for your very informative post.
Hmm, if these numbers are correct, then that is rather interesting.
A previously VR 5 boss add encounter with combined mob health of 41K, was with patch 1.5 was 'scaled' down to VR2 with 250k Health total.
Thats a 6x increase in total add HP for beeing 'scaled' down 3 vet ranks.
Would have loved to see a follow up factual thread to this. That would have formed a great basis for discussion and feedback.
- Numbers pre 1.5
- Numbers after 1.5
- Numbers after 1.5.6
Edited by Goresnort on November 25, 2014 12:12AM1 -
Medakon✭✭✭Dungeons & Group Content
General
Slightly decreased the power and health of all monsters in dungeons that have been scaled to Veteran Rank 1 and higher.
Boo. Rather stretch time between add phases a touch and leave bosses As Is.
I dissagree with you, I love that they added more health to the mobs so its harder to "farm gear" and you have to dodge/be more carefull for longer periods of time, not just a 10sec fight like the old days. This health/power is actually the normal health and damage mobs does on all MMO's and its a good fix.Medakon - Legendary Super Hero Professional Assassin Nightblade from Tamriel who do different stuff
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Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
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It's actually pretty hard even if you follow mechanics. Harder than any other bos in this dungeon(last boss hardmode is a joke, both pre and after 1.5) and most bosses in other dungeons.AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »Some of the VR14 scaled bosses were a little weird. Hopefully this will help, I'm thinking of the 3rd in spindle with all the adds, the 2nd in BC with the electric blobs, and the last of Black Heart. Usually it wasn't the final boss that was the problem but one of the earlier bosses that scaled oddly.
I have never not been able to finish them before the patch but some of them were harder than the last 4 fights in Vet Arena.
Third boss in Spindle isn't bad if you follow mechanics and use class abilities to combat the mechanics of the fight. One Sorc with Negate, a Templar with Nova, DK with Talons, or a NB with Veil...it's all manageable. But the problem is, a lot of people didn't want to follow mechanics.
Slightest mistake or a tiny bit of lag at any point and you wipe. No place for error, at all. I can see how this can be fun to overcome with a perfectly coordinated, experienced group using TS - I have done it myself - but it doesn't change the fact that this fight is a nightmare for 99% of other groups, even good ones.
If that fight doesn't need a change, then Spindle needs a big warning sign at entrance, because it's currently(or was til today at least, gotta test it after this patch) harder than COH and possibly COA.As I mentioned in many other threads, the dungeons weren't simply "scaled," because even COH scaled to v1 is harder than the original COH at the native v12. Thus, using the term "scaling" is completely wrong.
The two adds in the 3rd boss in spindle before the current minipatch each had 100k HP, when scaled to v12. That's some HPs right there to keep your dps's busy!
Huh?? What was that about COH?o.O I've done COH "scaled" to vet 12, it seemed just the same as pre-1.5. Challenging without good group coordination, supersmooth once you get that part figured out. We were rather sloppy in our run and only had 3 deaths, 2 of them due to a bug. That's hardmode, too. Oh, not to forget the regular "oh damn he's ALREADY in stage 2?! Guys we need less dps" wipe, of course xD
I didn't really watch boss's health, but I'm not sure COH scales at all. It was vet 12 originally, that's as high as they go.1
