What's up with the weather???

MornaBaine

Has anyone else noticed that we all experience different weather in the game, even when we're standing right next to each other? Many a time with my guild we've been out doing various things and someone will go, "OMG so sick of the rain!" and someone else will say, "What are you talking about? It's perfectly sunny!" My husband and I have computers right next to each other and on his screen it will be raining and on mine it'll be sunny...and we're grouped, running the same quest in the same area!

Can anyone explain this bizarre phenomena?

Dekkameron

Hmm.. i didn't know that everyone had different weather i assumed we shared the same.

OrangeTheCat

I'm curious. Is your husband's toon's red your toon's green by any chance?

Mountain_Dewed

I was curious about the music also, does everyone hear the same music at the same time?

Aett_Thorn

The weather is handled client-side, so this will happen. If it was handled server-side, then everyone would experience the same weather, but would likely experience more lag as well.

Dekkameron

Aett_Thorn wrote: »

The weather is handled client-side, so this will happen. If it was handled server-side, then everyone would experience the same weather, but would likely experience more lag as well.

I doubt it would cause more lag. A simple server command such as Weather = Rain or somesuch would suffice.

In other games that have different weather patterns (LOTRO/WOW) they have it so everyone shares the same weather types.

guybrushtb16_ESO

Aett_Thorn wrote: »

The weather is handled client-side, so this will happen. If it was handled server-side, then everyone would experience the same weather, but would likely experience more lag as well.

Definitely not. There are *a lot* more things going on at the same time, broadcasting the weather wouldn't take any capacity at all. Besides, it wouldn't be even neccessary; the client usually gets the server time on login at least, it should be fairly simple to just use that as a seed for synchronized weather.

Hypertionb14_ESO

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Aett_Thorn wrote: »

The weather is handled client-side, so this will happen. If it was handled server-side, then everyone would experience the same weather, but would likely experience more lag as well.

Definitely not. There are *a lot* more things going on at the same time, broadcasting the weather wouldn't take any capacity at all. Besides, it wouldn't be even neccessary; the client usually gets the server time on login at least, it should be fairly simple to just use that as a seed for synchronized weather.

it would amount to a single line when loading into a zone, a simple "GetWeather" request or so..

and a simple state change transmit from the server to update when it changes..

basically a single line of code would be all that would be needed to transmit the change...

this amounts to such a minimal draw on server load to be completely negligible. and it would less than a millisecond of additional load time when entering a zone.

really the only reason they dont have the server handle the current weather conditions is pure laziness and a lack of that attention to detail that can make or break a game.

i expect them to add it in a major update tho... like the creepy faces were added in 1.5.... and i bet it will be rather lauded by the dev team despite how minor a effort will be needed.

it would mostly be a server side change, with the team that handles the servers being the ones that program the weather system rather than the ones that handle the client. the client guys only need to add in a request to handle weather and remove the randomize currently in place.

stevenbennett_ESO

It's a little more complicated than GetWeather in a zone, because the weather changes both over time (even while you're in the same zone) and different parts of zones often have different weather deliberately. (I was just noticing how the weather is completely different near the Wreck of the Raptor in Auridon, in fact…) You'd need to get the weather condition on a regular basis, every few seconds at least.

That said, the weather condition could be encoded into a couple bytes added to location verification packets, or a small weather state packet could be sent every few seconds, so I'm thinking it's probably not a significant bandwidth increase, although without knowing more about how they're sending packets, I can't be certain. The only tricky bit would be integrating the weather logic on the servers - which is probably significantly less trivial than it sounds. (I'm a programmer and have spent much of my life having to inform people that their "trivial" changes are actually very significant ones… )

Islyn

Is Magic. Duh.

Anex

How odd.. my husband and I play often together and this different weather thing has NEVER happened. We always have the same weather O_o

Hypertionb14_ESO

stevenbennett_ESO wrote: »

It's a little more complicated than GetWeather in a zone, because the weather changes both over time (even while you're in the same zone) and different parts of zones often have different weather deliberately. (I was just noticing how the weather is completely different near the Wreck of the Raptor in Auridon, in fact…) You'd need to get the weather condition on a regular basis, every few seconds at least.

That said, the weather condition could be encoded into a couple bytes added to location verification packets, or a small weather state packet could be sent every few seconds, so I'm thinking it's probably not a significant bandwidth increase, although without knowing more about how they're sending packets, I can't be certain. The only tricky bit would be integrating the weather logic on the servers - which is probably significantly less trivial than it sounds. (I'm a programmer and have spent much of my life having to inform people that their "trivial" changes are actually very significant ones… )

there are certain local effects that are static in general, unique to a specific location (like the Wreck of the Raptor). there are places that always have storms or rain or have a more overcast look on a constant basis... this is tied to the location, and the zone weather state is separate from this.

you may have have mis-understood. GetWeather would only occur as part of loading into a zone.. it would simply be your client getting the current state when you load in. even in teh case of localized weather, it would amount to when you enter the localized instance for that particular effect.

Active updates would simply be sent out as a "WeatherChange" by the server when the weather changes... meaning that those updates would be roughtly 5-20 minutes apart. these would only affect people in zone.

Lord_Kreegan

stevenbennett_ESO wrote: »

It's a little more complicated than GetWeather in a zone, because the weather changes both over time (even while you're in the same zone) and different parts of zones often have different weather deliberately. (I was just noticing how the weather is completely different near the Wreck of the Raptor in Auridon, in fact…) You'd need to get the weather condition on a regular basis, every few seconds at least.

That said, the weather condition could be encoded into a couple bytes added to location verification packets, or a small weather state packet could be sent every few seconds, so I'm thinking it's probably not a significant bandwidth increase, although without knowing more about how they're sending packets, I can't be certain. The only tricky bit would be integrating the weather logic on the servers - which is probably significantly less trivial than it sounds. (I'm a programmer and have spent much of my life having to inform people that their "trivial" changes are actually very significant ones… )

Overly complex approach... As another poster noted, all you need is a common random number seed to be passed to all clients; note that it needs to include a timestamp; and then whatever zone/subzone weather variations are needed occur in synchronization between clients.

Algorithmically, that random number stream can be maintained very simply as a variable separate and distinct from other random number streams. A timestamp is needed so clients that log in at different times can update the random number seed to the current value being used by all other clients (a simple looping algorithm based on the period within which weather updates).

There's lots of empirical evidence that the ESO engine is using Microsoft's very simple rand() function as opposed to the much more complex (and processing intensive) drand48() function. Almost all games do this even though rand() is not a very good RNG (there are twenty tests of randomness used for RNG's; rand() fails nine of them). The function rand() is a very simple one-line piece of code combining a large prime number with a seed value (typically using a number sampled from the clock); it is what is known as a "multiplicative congruential method", which is a fancy name for what is nothing more than a modulo calculation. The last derived random number is used as the seed for the next call. That being the case, it is a very simple matter to save off the last drawn number until it is desired to randomly generate weather effects again.

For multiple zones/subzones, weather can just be sampled from the RNG sequentially and that will produce the same sequence of numbers (by which to generate effects) for every client. You see, RNGs are not really random. They are pseudo-random generators. For a given seed, they will always generate the same sequence of numbers.

Which is why a clock sample is usually used for "true" random number generation (although that is a flawed approach, too).

diabeticDemon18

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Aett_Thorn wrote: »

The weather is handled client-side, so this will happen. If it was handled server-side, then everyone would experience the same weather, but would likely experience more lag as well.

Definitely not. There are *a lot* more things going on at the same time, broadcasting the weather wouldn't take any capacity at all. Besides, it wouldn't be even neccessary; the client usually gets the server time on login at least, it should be fairly simple to just use that as a seed for synchronized weather.

it would amount to a single line when loading into a zone, a simple "GetWeather" request or so..

and a simple state change transmit from the server to update when it changes..

basically a single line of code would be all that would be needed to transmit the change...

this amounts to such a minimal draw on server load to be completely negligible. and it would less than a millisecond of additional load time when entering a zone.

really the only reason they dont have the server handle the current weather conditions is pure laziness and a lack of that attention to detail that can make or break a game.

i expect them to add it in a major update tho... like the creepy faces were added in 1.5.... and i bet it will be rather lauded by the dev team despite how minor a effort will be needed.

it would mostly be a server side change, with the team that handles the servers being the ones that program the weather system rather than the ones that handle the client. the client guys only need to add in a request to handle weather and remove the randomize currently in place.

Let's be honest now... how "game breaking" is it that your friend is playing naked in the rain while you bask in the sunlight??

Sneak_Thief

Weather across one alliance will be different from another alliance even if the zone is the same. Also weather in instanced areas can be completely opposite. For instance it can be sunny where you stand and run 20ft and it will be raining.. its odd, but weather doesn't effect gameplay, my only issues with weather was taking guild photos.

eventide03b14a_ESO

I often get different weather than my partner sitting right next to me. What I find infinitely more creepy than desynced weather is that there are no children in the game.

MornaBaine

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Aett_Thorn wrote: »

The weather is handled client-side, so this will happen. If it was handled server-side, then everyone would experience the same weather, but would likely experience more lag as well.

Definitely not. There are *a lot* more things going on at the same time, broadcasting the weather wouldn't take any capacity at all. Besides, it wouldn't be even neccessary; the client usually gets the server time on login at least, it should be fairly simple to just use that as a seed for synchronized weather.

it would amount to a single line when loading into a zone, a simple "GetWeather" request or so..

and a simple state change transmit from the server to update when it changes..

basically a single line of code would be all that would be needed to transmit the change...

this amounts to such a minimal draw on server load to be completely negligible. and it would less than a millisecond of additional load time when entering a zone.

really the only reason they dont have the server handle the current weather conditions is pure laziness and a lack of that attention to detail that can make or break a game.

i expect them to add it in a major update tho... like the creepy faces were added in 1.5.... and i bet it will be rather lauded by the dev team despite how minor a effort will be needed.

it would mostly be a server side change, with the team that handles the servers being the ones that program the weather system rather than the ones that handle the client. the client guys only need to add in a request to handle weather and remove the randomize currently in place.

Let's be honest now... how "game breaking" is it that your friend is playing naked in the rain while you bask in the sunlight??

It's not game breaking as you can certainly still play. But it IS annoying, especially for us crazy roleplayers.

Epona222

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I often get different weather than my partner sitting right next to me. What I find infinitely more creepy than desynced weather is that there are no children in the game.

Yet there are cribs all over the place - which is doubly creepy...

MornaBaine

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I often get different weather than my partner sitting right next to me. What I find infinitely more creepy than desynced weather is that there are no children in the game.

I keep bringing that up too. Totally freaky. I'm not a huge fan of children and have often joked about how delightful a world without them would be...but actually SEEING that world is pretty freaking creepy.

Cazic

Lord_Kreegan

The werewolves are eating the children. The kids keep going up to the werewolves saying, "Nice doggy!" and then they're just easy meals...

ers101284b14_ESO

Better than the weather in the real world.



Seriously my town flipped out over a snowstorm that was coming yesterday...We got enough to make a footprint.

phreatophile

Cazic wrote: »

Giorgio for President!

phreatophile

If we all get different weather, can I have 50/50 for day an night?

MornaBaine

phreatophile wrote: »

If we all get different weather, can I have 50/50 for day an night?

Wouldn't THAT be wonderful??? Though in my dream world we actually have SEASONS and the day/night cycle shifts with the season!

phreatophile

MornaBaine wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

If we all get different weather, can I have 50/50 for day an night?

Wouldn't THAT be wonderful??? Though in my dream world we actually have SEASONS and the day/night cycle shifts with the season!

Oh, Hell ya. I want to watch the sun barely peek over the horizon and go right back down after a couple minutes from the walls of Windhelm or from the Throat of the World.

Solstice party!!

Karius_Imalthar

I was thinking a possible solution would be to still have the clients handle the weather but just have the server tell the client "start rain", "start sunny", "start thunderstorm", etc and then the client just goes about performing the type of weather. Yeah, lightning and thunder won't be at all the same but at least people will be experiencing the same kind of weather and this would only require a tiny bit of information to be sent.

Hamfast

LOL, There I am, with my wife (NOT Morna) Day time and sunny for her, Raining and dark for me...

I wonder if it has to do with your graphics settings (Show Weather Yes/No)

AlexDougherty

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Better than the weather in the real world.



Seriously my town flipped out over a snowstorm that was coming yesterday...We got enough to make a footprint.

It's usually the trains that over-react by us, the towns in Britian usually wait until after it's snowed before they start planning.

ers101284b14_ESO

AlexDougherty wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Better than the weather in the real world.



Seriously my town flipped out over a snowstorm that was coming yesterday...We got enough to make a footprint.

It's usually the trains that over-react by us, the towns in Britian usually wait until after it's snowed before they start planning.

Not here. The people are stupid in this town. When it snows or rains I drive at least 5 miles slower everyone else decides its the Daytona 500. But then again we are talking about the same town who spent 5 million dollars to build a new stadium that doesn't have a parking lot.

The same town who saw a highway, a moving company, train tracks, an airport, and 3 different ways out of town and decided that in the middle of all that they should build a minimum security prison.....yeah.

My town also has a wait and see policy. When there is a huge snowstorm they wait at least 3 days to see if it melts before sending out snow plows.

MornaBaine

Think there's any chance they might ever fix this so weather is consistent rather than bizarrely and illogically individual? I just don't see how it never occurred to them that having 2 players standing right next to each other and experiencing completely different weather makes absolutely no sense.