Laughing at Sorcerers who use ultimate ablities

Dirty_Digs

NEGATES DO NOT KILL MOBS, OR BOTTLENECK GROUPS, OR WIPE ZERGS. That is a false claim, I assure you. They help, just a little, barely, for about a half second until they leave the little circle. Unless you had OTHER players dropping ultimates at the same time, you did not cast a negate over a group and wreck shop. I would love to see a full vet mob get wrecked by negates, would just love it, never seen it, only the pugs and noobs fall for that and they die using simple cc's and weapon attacks.

Reverb

TheLaw wrote: »

When you discredited negate, you lost all credibility. Sure, solo it's not that useful. With an organized group, you can easily wipe masses with single well placed negate.

Agree. Sorcs running negate can make or break a pvp group. Every time I see an Atronach in Cyro I shed a tear for a lost negate charge.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

Oh gee. I'm just finding out how ridiculously underpowered Veil of Blades is, I have a new NB. I guess Negate is useless, well except for shutting down all magic in the area. My silly sorcs use it all the time.

Oh well I'll try to get by somehow.

squshy7

...sounds like the OP has never tasted invincibility after dropping an Absorption field on a clumped-up zerg.

Bramir

A well timed negate will decide a battle. The other two suck so bad I haven't used them since shortly after launch.

dodgehopper_ESO

There are a lot of abilities in the game which I feel need some love. Putting cards on the table for those who don't know, but my main character is a Templar. That being said, I have vets of every class, and I must agree that Sorc ultimates could see some love. Overload is a great ability in pve, and honestly the most fun ultimate in the game. Nothing else in the game makes you feel like a Sith Emperor. That being said, its pretty ridiculous that an obvious cone effect could be reflected back upon you: bad design there. Negate is a cool ability but I have to agree it should give a gnarly stun, debuff, or protection that carries in and out of the bubble. I do have odds with the notion that bolt escape is not any good. Bolt Escape is amazing, and anyone who says otherwise is selling you a bridge. It isn't necessarily just used to run away, but it can be used to rapidly debuff and change position. Used in an aggressive manner it can be very demoralizing, and can help set people up for a world of hurt. I do think Sorcs have abilities though that ought not be reflected at all, and this is actually true of a few class abilities, not just Sorc.

All in all though, I do agree with your assessment on the Sorc ultimates, particularly as they relate to pvp. Have you considered using Flawless Dawnbreaker to pump up your weapon damage with Surge?

Sublime

So here's my take on the issue (from the PvP side):

Overload: This is in my opinion the weakest one since it is only good in certain situations and can be countered rather easy. I however really like the magicka return (which could be buffed by ~10% IMO, feel free to argue)

Atronach: I don't know about 1vX but it's probably the ultimate with the best zoning potential for 1v1. At first the initial stun gives you 1-2s of free time, which is quite good and in addition to that you get a 3-4m no-go zone (with the right Morph). On top of all that his channel attack basically forces your enemy to move a long way, or it will drain a lot of ressources. I.e. if used at the right time it can be seen as an early finisher.

Negate: This ultimate is of a special kind, it is the only one that is reactive instead of proactive, which means that you have to wait for the right moment/action from the enemy player to use it. It's effect is nice for 1v1 since it enables you to counter 90% of all other ultimates, Atronach is however far better in 1v1, because of its zoning.

Now for group PvP, Negate is in my eyes the best ultimate in the game, by far. Simply because, if you have no Negate in your group you are always going to loose against other groups, due to their ground control. Now on the other side Negate enables one player by using 200 ultimate to neglect the effort of multiple enemy Players, which cost several 1000 ultimate, in an instant. This huge discrepancy is what makes this ultimate so good. It has the potential to cause a lot of players to waste their ultimate for zero effect. In other words, it can drain several players of their ultimate by the use of a single skill.

And that's Negate without morphs.
(I hope ZOS doesn't read this post)

Vahrokh

Dirty_Digs wrote: »

Ok, before I start I would like to state that I have found my own way to become an absolute vicious sorcerer who gives way to no one, even against players on there own buff servers(don't even get me started on that stupid mechanic, PVP servers providing PVE buffs? Why and why and why is that still a thing?). But I have absolutely no fear or respect for any enemy sorc I encounter. All they do is streak away or die.

Well, they are good at casting Negate Magic and...
...that's more or less it. Always fun to endure 14 VR ranks to end up as a one (long reload time) button class.

ArcanusMagus

Negate isn't meant to kill anyone - it's a utility ability. Properly using a negate in pvp is about negating breaches in walls, negating flags to help bring the inside of a keep under control faster, and, my personal favorite, negating zergballs. Knowing when to use it just takes practice and experience (and a little luck never hurts).

A good sorceror isn't going to be too concerned that he's weak against this tailored build or that tailored build because he's going to be using his own skill and the tools at his disposal to make the maximum impact for his group or faction.

No need to wring your hands over what sorcerors can't do when there's so much that they can do.

BRogueNZ

Seen more wipes thanks to a well timed and placed negate than most other ultimate's.

Vahrokh

BRogueNZ wrote: »

Seen more wipes thanks to a well timed and placed negate than most other ultimate's.

Yes, the same terribles who can't dodge roll a big red circle in PvE, cannot dodge roll an even more evident dark circle in PvP. That makes sorcs good indeed...

Tripwyr

There are a lot of people in this thread who have never played PvP at a high level and thus believe Negate is weak. Negate is the strongest ultimate in the game, bar none. Fights are won or lost based on how many Negates each side had.

Teargrants

I'm upset because Negate is buggy. It's supposed to silence my enemies, yet when I do it, I know they can still talk to each other in TS. This bug has been in since alpha and I just can't take it anymore, enough is enough. When I Negate a raid, ESO needs to lock out their speakers & mics for the duration of my Negate.

Asgari

Negate is the best ultimate in the game hands down. Remove all ground AoE and stuns all players AND replenishes your allies stats if they are in the negate. It's the only ultimate in the game that can remove almost all the ultimates AND knock out entire skills and skill lines in one cast.

Hybris6

So you bacically want to buff the strongest class in the game.. Sorcerers are way op if they play the class right.

A good vr 14 sorcerer can take out a lvl 10 Dk in under 40 minutes by kiting and use teleport. Just pop health potions and spellcrit. Eventually you will wear him down.

Nuff said.

bertenburnyb16_ESO

LOL are u kidding op? Negate is one of the most important skills in organized group PvP (not talking about dueling here) do u even know how it works?

Lord_Hev

Storm Atronach actually has very good DPS. It's the Sorc's #1 counter to DKs. It loses it's value in large battles though. Especially if it has aggro on some player a mile away.


I'd much rather it be switched to the NPC verison of the Atronach though. The one that is immune to CC, and runs around punching people to death and shooting massive AOE Lighting blasts. Now that would be a great ultimate to compete with the lolStandards DKs wipe entire groups with.


The whole concept of it being immobile is stupid. That is what is keeping it from being a terrifying presence. And the CC vulnerability. The thing is massive. It should be immune, just like the NPC Storm Atronachs.

OtarTheMad

I do agree that Sorc ultimates can get in the way more than help in PvP. Usually I run with Meteor and either Barrier or War Horn. The Sorc ultimates are useless in PvP, unless you happen to be attacking a keep with no players and just npcs... then negate it up but against players us Sorcs don't have much.

Meteor is fun though, when I see a DK reflect his heart out I just hit the ultimate on the dude next to him so he gets the bonus damage, can't reflect that.

EDIT:

How effective Negate is completely depends on the people you are grouping with and the strategy used to defend or take a keep. The people you are grouping with must understand what negate does, and how to use it to their advantage while so does the Sorc. Negate can be CC broken (apparently) and has an AoE cap (so if you drop it on a group of more than 6 then you just wasted your ultimate... happened to me a few times)

Yes you can use it to negate enemy ultimates as stated in other posts and Sorcerer is a strong class in both PvP and PvE. I may have gone a little far by saying it's useless (it was early... I'm tired lol) but it does not dominate a situation like it does in PvE. If you use Negate in a combination of another ultimate like Standard or Veil, it can be just devasting... especially if your group knows how to capitalize. If I had a choice of any ultimate in the game for my Sorc to use in PvP it would probably be Veil honestly. (Nightblade ultimate) I have never seen players (besides myself) standing in a friendly Negate, not many take advantage of what it does so therefore it's not as effective.

I've used Storm Atronachs on a big "zerg" group because it will stun players for a second giving people either a chance to run or come up with a counter. Not bad but wish it did more.

TequilaFire

I miss my Storm Atronach's aggro ability they took away when soloing.

EskimoBrother

I think you're greatly under estimating negate, it's one of the best ults in the game for pvp group fights...if not the best. Nova? Dk standard? Negate wins.

Teiji

Negate Magic as many have said already, the best, most valuable ultimate to have in your arsenal in the game in group based PVP combat. It's absolutely indisputable, immunity to Dragonknight Standard, Nova, Batswarm, removal of healing circles and so on and so forth. Whilst restoring Magicka and Health to friendlies in the Negate [Absorption Field morph].

It can remove multiple ultimate abilities whilst restoring a huge amount of health and magicka to a group. Sorcerer is the ultimate battle tactician, an incredible Sorcerer can single-handedly dictate the course of a battle by being able to remain calm and simply eliminate any and all counter-play as and when able to, as opposed to frantically hitting their dodge roll key and using streak as a shield not a sword.

I've used my Sorcerer, as have a huge amount of other Sorcerers in the past to take out small groups solo. I'd use 8 class skills on two action bars, the same class skills which are supposed to be "useless". The original post is absolute misinformation and disinformation, clearly trying to stop people from playing one of the strongest classes in the game, providing you play a Sorcerer as a Sorcerer respectively.

For atronachs...
How about a synergy that calls a flame atronach...

Flame Atronach has been said to arrive with Spell Crafting - this has been said to be a standard ability or an ultimate ability depending on how you craft it, focussed on single-target or aoe.

Leeric

Orchish wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

I main a sorc....and IMO...any class....ANY..who rely on ultimate to get kills is garbage in PvP.

I think you are wrong about negate though.

The only true garbage mechanic in this game is reflect. Its a skilless overpowered cheese move that needs to be nerfed.

What and spamming lethal arrow,curse and crystal fragments does?

Lol you can't spam curse....this guy good joke

bosmern_ESO

You have never really pvped if you think negate isn't good. Its one of the only ults that well organized zergs count on.

Only ignorant sorcs run in and throw a negate up randomly.

Terror

L2P issue honestly, I do just fine, I'm enjoying my sorc. *Laughing at discredited Negate* This is by far one of the best utilities in Cyrodiil.

Derra

I´m under the impression the op only speaks about solo play when judging the sorc ulties and in that case he is not entirely wrong...

Yolokin_Swagonborn

All this negate worshiping is ignoring the fact that negates don't stop batswarm very well. It appears that bats can be activated under a negate and someone can pop it outside and rush in without having it dispel.

I agree that negate is very powerful situationally but if more people knew it could be interrupted, they would just spend the stamina, gain some CC immunity, then keep casting away.

Just imagine if people could "interrupt" a banner or veil, gain CC immunity, and be able to stand under it with no additional negative effects. That's what you can do in a negate and somehow its the "Best ult in the game" because you can drop it on unsuspecting zergs that don't know how to interrupt? Please.

That being said, the other two ults are terrible and need a revamp.

I would like overload to do exactly what the tooltip said it would do and just buff my heavy and light attacks. As a sorc, I don't need another ability that fires slow moving, dodgeable, reflectible glowey balls at people.

Just tack on a significant amount of lightning damage to heavy and light attacks while the effect is toggled on. Make some animation that makes your sword, staff, bow or whatever glow with lighting. Skill fixed. Also make all heavy and light attacks do critical damage by default when this skill is activated. Then overload becomes fun.

More discussion of fixes for sorc skills in the class skills forum.
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ArcanusMagus

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

All this negate worshiping is ignoring the fact that negates don't stop batswarm very well. It appears that bats can be activated under a negate and someone can pop it outside and rush in without having it dispel.

I agree that negate is very powerful situationally but if more people knew it could be interrupted, they would just spend the stamina, gain some CC immunity, then keep casting away.

Just imagine if people could "interrupt" a banner or veil, gain CC immunity, and be able to stand under it with no additional negative effects. That's what you can do in a negate and somehow its the "Best ult in the game" because you can drop it on unsuspecting zergs that don't know how to interrupt? Please.

That being said, the other two ults are terrible and need a revamp.

I would like overload to do exactly what the tooltip said it would do and just buff my heavy and light attacks. As a sorc, I don't need another ability that fires slow moving, dodgeable, reflectible glowey balls at people.

Just tack on a significant amount of lightning damage to heavy and light attacks while the effect is toggled on. Make some animation that makes your sword, staff, bow or whatever glow with lighting. Skill fixed. Also make all heavy and light attacks do critical damage by default when this skill is activated. Then overload becomes fun.

More discussion of fixes for sorc skills in the class skills forum.
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So if negate doesn't stop batswarm then it's no good? I'll tell you what stops the batswarm, fire. Fire solves all twi-hard problems.

Let's say it is merely a matter of ignorance that negate is as useful as it is in pvp. Do you honestly believe that there will ever be a time in which ignorance isn't a factor? Even if everyone understood how to break out of negate (other than, say, by walking), one skill from one player taking a chunk out of the stamina of a zerg is still a worthwhile utility.

I do think that you're absolutely correct about overload. I also wish that it worked the way that you described. It doesn't, and that's why I run power surge.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

ArcanusMagus wrote: »

So if negate doesn't stop batswarm then it's no good? I'll tell you what stops the batswarm, fire. Fire solves all twi-hard problems.

Let's say it is merely a matter of ignorance that negate is as useful as it is in pvp. Do you honestly believe that there will ever be a time in which ignorance isn't a factor? Even if everyone understood how to break out of negate (other than, say, by walking), one skill from one player taking a chunk out of the stamina of a zerg is still a worthwhile utility.

I do think that you're absolutely correct about overload. I also wish that it worked the way that you described. It doesn't, and that's why I run power surge.

While I try not to underestimate the power of mass stupidity, the purpose of this thread was to discuss sorc ultimates and their shortcomings.

No, negate isn't the "best ult in the game," and neither is it "no good" as you ascribe as my position. So lets stop swinging to the extremes.

It has high value depending on the situation and the overall skill of your opponents.

But, like all other Sorc ults and skills, it is full of loopholes. Doesn't matter if you are great at killing vampires with fire. If negate stops spells from being cast, it should also stop bats, especially in a place where bats are plentiful.

The collective intelligence of players will increase over time. The metagame always changes. The more people realize the glaring loopholes in negate and atronarch, the weaker sorcs get.

And no, I don't want the power of my class to be determined by the stupidity of others.

You can't "outsmart" a banner unless you GTFO, why should you be able to outsmart a negate?

naturn

[/quote]

While I try not to underestimate the power of mass stupidity, the purpose of this thread was to discuss sorc ultimates and their shortcomings.

No, negate isn't the "best ult in the game," and neither is it "no good" as you ascribe as my position. So lets stop swinging to the extremes.

It has high value depending on the situation and the overall skill of your opponents.

But, like all other Sorc ults and skills, it is full of loopholes. Doesn't matter if you are great at killing vampires with fire. If negate stops spells from being cast, it should also stop bats, especially in a place where bats are plentiful.

The collective intelligence of players will increase over time. The metagame always changes. The more people realize the glaring loopholes in negate and atronarch, the weaker sorcs get.

And no, I don't want the power of my class to be determined by the stupidity of others.

You can't "outsmart" a banner unless you GTFO, why should you be able to outsmart a negate?

[/quote]

This is how I feel as well. I would like to add that sorcs really need something more to be balanced with the other classes perhaps higher dps to compensate for their fragility.

Artemiisia

the 3 ultimate abilities I use for my sorcerer is:

Negate: sweet cc
Flawless Diamond: Extra damage passive boost
Soul assault: single target high dps