Stacking Lethal Arrows from any one player = 100% healing debuff

Zintair

AsweetRoll wrote: »

Zintair wrote: »

Are you just going to ignore the account of a potential 100% stacking health debuff? I personally have found myself in this situation. I have no proof so it is irrelevant here but I definitely think it warrants looking into.

Nothing you said has anything to do with what the OP is pointing out.

After the L2P part you are supposed to say something about SELF stacked 100% heal debuff which you distinctly ignored.

Purge

Thanks bro. I spam purge, you spam lethal arrow. I run out of health with no debuffs!

Pro Tip here!

Agrippa_Invisus

The debuffs from a single player on a single skill should absolutely not be stackable.

Snipe's damage is fine as is, but the stacking debuff has to go.

Columba

The debuff shouldn't stack.

Huntler

Love this still happening in PvP, heal debuff spam stacking... oh and the answer is purge. You spam purge, they spam heal debuff... wonder which wins.... eyeroll. Lets not forget it takes like 3 purges to come close to removing enough debuffs to actually remove the heal debuff since everything in this game comes with 1+ debuffs.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

This also, once again, gives little incentive to use my 2h sword. I'll just lethal arrow spam someone to death. Not much they can do about it besides find where its coming from or run the hell away.... or die. Countless have already fallen to these cheap kills. Doesn't even cost that much anymore. 199 stamina, lol.

Aerrimus

Solution:

1. Make the debuff 25%
2. Allow it to stack for different people
3. Multiple hits from an individual renews the timer (for only their effect)
4. Give it a soft cap of 50% (first hit 25%, second 50%, third 62.5% etc.)

This will make it so it's not useless for multiple procs and doesn't nerf snipe.

Aerrimus

I also think purge should give a small immunity.

imo, this should be a priority fix. In it's current state we are required to purge way too much and everyone knows excessive aoe spam contributes to the server lag.

Tripwyr

Aerrimus wrote: »

Solution:

1. Make the debuff 25%
2. Allow it to stack for different people
3. Multiple hits from an individual renews the timer (for only their effect)
4. Give it a soft cap of 50% (first hit 25%, second 50%, third 62.5% etc.)

This will make it so it's not useless for multiple procs and doesn't nerf snipe.

Why would it need to stack to be useful? Both your suggestion and making only a single instance apply are still nerfs to Lethal Arrow and are needed changes.

Aerrimus

Tripwyr wrote: »

Why would it need to stack to be useful? Both your suggestion and making only a single instance apply are still nerfs to Lethal Arrow and are needed changes.

I don't think stacking to a 100% debuff should ever be possible but if there are eleventy-billion archers debuffing someone getting up to 75% insn't unreasonable. Imo, it would make it so coordinated attacks are still worth something.

You're right, this would be a nerf for 1v1 fights but still work better in group play.

Aerrimus

Aerrimus wrote: »

imo, this should be a priority fix. In it's current state we are required to purge way too much and everyone knows excessive aoe spam contributes to the server lag.

btw, when I said this I meant the stacking to 100% thing should be a priority fix because of the excessive purging and server lag. Any fix, not just what i suggested..

Nijjion

AsweetRoll wrote: »

Zintair wrote: »

Are you just going to ignore the account of a potential 100% stacking health debuff? I personally have found myself in this situation. I have no proof so it is irrelevant here but I definitely think it warrants looking into.

Nothing you said has anything to do with what the OP is pointing out.

After the L2P part you are supposed to say something about SELF stacked 100% heal debuff which you distinctly ignored.

Purge

People's skill bar for who wants to counter healing debuff.

http://imgur.com/iLKhHl4

Davadin

Aerrimus wrote: »

Solution:

1. Make the debuff 25%
2. Allow it to stack for different people
3. Multiple hits from an individual renews the timer (for only their effect)
4. Give it a soft cap of 50% (first hit 25%, second 50%, third 62.5% etc.)

This will make it so it's not useless for multiple procs and doesn't nerf snipe.

Or... make it unstackable. Period.

Varicite

Aerrimus wrote: »

Solution:

1. Make the debuff 25%
2. Allow it to stack for different people
3. Multiple hits from an individual renews the timer (for only their effect)
4. Give it a soft cap of 50% (first hit 25%, second 50%, third 62.5% etc.)

This will make it so it's not useless for multiple procs and doesn't nerf snipe.

They would probably give this guy a job. : D

ZOS_GinaBruno

Hey guys, just wanted to let you know that the stacking of Lethal Arrow is not intended, and we are looking into this. Thanks for the reports!

Huntler

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, just wanted to let you know that the stacking of Lethal Arrow is not intended, and we are looking into this. Thanks for the reports!

Just this unintended bug isn't the only problem, I do hope you guys re-evaluate how heal debuffs work. In general it is just bag game design the fact that heal debuffs stack. They are so plentiful in this game it is quite easy to get to 100% even without this unintended bug. Purge is simply no longer the answer unless you basically spam it throughout an entire fight... which is kind of ridiculous.

Zintair

Aerrimus wrote: »

Solution:

1. Make the debuff 25%
2. Allow it to stack for different people
3. Multiple hits from an individual renews the timer (for only their effect)
4. Give it a soft cap of 50% (first hit 25%, second 50%, third 62.5% etc.)

This will make it so it's not useless for multiple procs and doesn't nerf snipe.

Absolutely not. Nothing should stack that debuffs something so critical.

You get hit once it should be a waste to spam it. Therefore the first shot gives you the debuff and then you are just milking the 1 button gameplay.

Xiphyla

This stacking of heal debuff is a bit hilarious .

Maulkin

Huntler wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, just wanted to let you know that the stacking of Lethal Arrow is not intended, and we are looking into this. Thanks for the reports!

Just this unintended bug isn't the only problem, I do hope you guys re-evaluate how heal debuffs work. In general it is just bag game design the fact that heal debuffs stack. They are so plentiful in this game it is quite easy to get to 100% even without this unintended bug. Purge is simply no longer the answer unless you basically spam it throughout an entire fight... which is kind of ridiculous.

I agree it does need a holistic re-evaluation of the situation. People getting 100% debuffed and for long periods too. Here's the thing, at the moment individual health debuffs do a huge amount of debuffing. It's almost always in the 40%-50% range for each individual debuff.

50%

---

Golden disease enchant proc
Meatbag
Lethal Arrow

40%

---

Reverberating Bash
Dark Flare

To the point that even if some did not stack with themselves (like Reverberating Bash) by doing a light attack weave with the weapon/skill attack you could still do 90%-100% instant debuff if the enchant procs.

Since there are no cool-downs either you end up having to purge debuffs constantly, expending more resources than the person attacking you before you even get to heal the damage that was done. It's a race you'll always lose.

I think a solution could be to:
1) decrease the individual duration.10" health debuffs are too long.
2) have diminishing returns on their stacking or a cap.

1 means there'll be less of a chance two of them will stack. And even if they do it won't be very long till they wear out. 2 means that even if you get hit with multiple debuffs you will still be receiving some healing even if greatly diminished.

At the moment everyone does health debuffing, it's not just archers. Every mage with a crafted staff puts disease enchants on it. What would you pick, an enchant that can proc 200HP of burning damage, or an enchant that can reduce your targets healing by 50%. It's not even a contest.

Aerrimus

"Zintair wrote: »

Absolutely not. Nothing should stack that debuffs something so critical.

You get hit once it should be a waste to spam it. Therefore the first shot gives you the debuff and then you are just milking the 1 button gameplay.

Hmm, thought I made it clear that multiple hits from 1 person would only refresh the timer and the "stacking" with soft cap would only happen if multiple people debuffed the same target. This would make up for readjusting the debuff down to 25%.

I'm sorry but 5 people debuffing a target should have more of an effect than 1 person hitting same target..

<I'm a DK tank/healer without a bow. I just hate to see straight nerfs that kill a skill like the DK chain..>

Gorthax

kijima wrote: »

Wait a sec, before we talk about changing heals and debuffs, before anything gets changed that will effect 1,000's of people, maybe have a look at what you can change first.

Lets talk about the 2.2 seconds you mentioned. Obviously it means you got hit twice by snipe (morphs) in a row. There are a few circumstances where you'll get hit with two arrows.

1. If you have been detected but you are still in sneak and then get hit with snipe (morphs) you'll get stunned, which then makes it easy for the next follow up arrow to get you down to 10-20% you are talking about.

It's a very simple mistake, and loads of people get caught out by this. I myself love using this tactic on other wannaba legolasses that are running around with a FOTM bow. They snipe you and get detected but stay in sneak mode, when you fire back a snipe on them it stuns them, then you can hit them again and usually finish them off with a heavy or venom.

2. Sorry about this next bit, but that's just bad situational awareness being hit by two snipes. When you hear the arrow coming, dodge roll is your friend.

3. Then there is a DK with flappy flap, or invis pots, did I say dodge roll? Shield stacking, blocking.

So many things to be done, and while there are so many bow users in cyro it's probably a good time to work out a solid defence for them.

this seems like a long way to say L2P. It isnt L2P when clearly they made the longest range weapon in the game the most OP weapon. You cant dodge roll what you cant see, and the sound of an arrow flying at you is hardly heard until it hits you. Shield stacking doesnt work against bows, I have tried. Your shield is gone in seconds just like your life if you dont shield stack.

We went from Elder Staves Online to Elder Flappy Wings Online (or Elder Bows Online, your choice) We all must come to the harsh reality that they can't and will never be able to balance this game. End of story

kijima

Bow's being long range... No way!

The heals debuff with snipe is OP and ZOS said that they are looking at it, and it wasn't intended.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, just wanted to let you know that the stacking of Lethal Arrow is not intended, and we are looking into this. Thanks for the reports!

Of course it isn't. No person wanting balance in the game would have thought it was intended, only those who want to be OP and get free kills.

This is one of those things that should have a hotfix in the works, not wait for next incremental or next major patch.

Sypher

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, just wanted to let you know that the stacking of Lethal Arrow is not intended, and we are looking into this. Thanks for the reports!

Thanks for the reply Gina. While you are at it, the Templar Healing debuff Dark Flare also stacks. The only reason people aren't complaining is it isn't as popular as lethal arrow.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Famemonster wrote: »

This is horrible. In 2.2s a player is at around 10-20% hp. Then they have 0% heals.

Can you please change this?

You must be experiencing a bug, I have had hundreds of bow users try to take me down with snipe after the patch and not one has succeeded, in fact the only time I die to snipe is if there are 3 or more people on me, I died one time to 3 ppl spamming snipe on me and would have been fine except one of them finally cast mages wrath.

Most of the time they snipe me from stealth and I lose about 20% of my 3k health and I immediately block till I see them then charge and smash them to goo.

Prior to patch I have been 3 shot from 2 snipes and venom arrow from a stealthy, now they have no chance of that.

Pretty meh skill.

Panda244

Zintair wrote: »

AsweetRoll wrote: »

Zintair wrote: »

Are you just going to ignore the account of a potential 100% stacking health debuff? I personally have found myself in this situation. I have no proof so it is irrelevant here but I definitely think it warrants looking into.

Nothing you said has anything to do with what the OP is pointing out.

After the L2P part you are supposed to say something about SELF stacked 100% heal debuff which you distinctly ignored.

Purge

Thanks bro. I spam purge, you spam lethal arrow. I run out of health with no debuffs!

Pro Tip here!

Cleanse. Removes debuff and heals you for 750-800. Bow user gets slapped basically, I don't have a problem with them so long as I'm actually playing and not staring at my map, talking to my wife, talking in group chat, getting food, getting a drink, bathroom, etc. Only reason I do die to bow users these days is self-idiocy, or not sneaking... I never sneak

Ifthir_ESO

Huntler wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, just wanted to let you know that the stacking of Lethal Arrow is not intended, and we are looking into this. Thanks for the reports!

Just this unintended bug isn't the only problem, I do hope you guys re-evaluate how heal debuffs work. In general it is just bag game design the fact that heal debuffs stack. They are so plentiful in this game it is quite easy to get to 100% even without this unintended bug. Purge is simply no longer the answer unless you basically spam it throughout an entire fight... which is kind of ridiculous.

Totally disagree. The game is too based around stacking and spam-healing as it is.

If you are hit by multiple, different healing debuffs, they should absolutely stack (ideally additively though). Without the ability to disarm, or maledict people's stats, healing debuffs are one of the few debuffs in this game.

Varicite

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, just wanted to let you know that the stacking of Lethal Arrow is not intended, and we are looking into this. Thanks for the reports!

Just this unintended bug isn't the only problem, I do hope you guys re-evaluate how heal debuffs work. In general it is just bag game design the fact that heal debuffs stack. They are so plentiful in this game it is quite easy to get to 100% even without this unintended bug. Purge is simply no longer the answer unless you basically spam it throughout an entire fight... which is kind of ridiculous.

Totally disagree. The game is too based around stacking and spam-healing as it is.

If you are hit by multiple, different healing debuffs, they should absolutely stack (ideally additively though). Without the ability to disarm, or maledict people's stats, healing debuffs are one of the few debuffs in this game.

No, no they shouldn't.

Most of the healing debuffs are already incredibly potent by themselves.

Tripwyr

Varicite wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, just wanted to let you know that the stacking of Lethal Arrow is not intended, and we are looking into this. Thanks for the reports!

Just this unintended bug isn't the only problem, I do hope you guys re-evaluate how heal debuffs work. In general it is just bag game design the fact that heal debuffs stack. They are so plentiful in this game it is quite easy to get to 100% even without this unintended bug. Purge is simply no longer the answer unless you basically spam it throughout an entire fight... which is kind of ridiculous.

Totally disagree. The game is too based around stacking and spam-healing as it is.

If you are hit by multiple, different healing debuffs, they should absolutely stack (ideally additively though). Without the ability to disarm, or maledict people's stats, healing debuffs are one of the few debuffs in this game.

No, no they shouldn't.

Most of the healing debuffs are already incredibly potent by themselves.

If healing debuffs are not potent enough (as Ifthir seems to feel), then they can be balanced by themselves. However, it should not be possible to reduce a healer's effectiveness to zero. We shouldn't need one purger for every opposing damage dealer (since there are so many different healing debuffs), not to mention that some are not even purge-able (standard).

Columba

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, just wanted to let you know that the stacking of Lethal Arrow is not intended, and we are looking into this. Thanks for the reports!

Of course it isn't. No person wanting balance in the game would have thought it was intended, only those who want to be OP and get free kills.

This is one of those things that should have a hotfix in the works, not wait for next incremental or next major patch.

Agreed, and I am bow specced and focused.

Huntler

Tripwyr wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, just wanted to let you know that the stacking of Lethal Arrow is not intended, and we are looking into this. Thanks for the reports!

Just this unintended bug isn't the only problem, I do hope you guys re-evaluate how heal debuffs work. In general it is just bag game design the fact that heal debuffs stack. They are so plentiful in this game it is quite easy to get to 100% even without this unintended bug. Purge is simply no longer the answer unless you basically spam it throughout an entire fight... which is kind of ridiculous.

Totally disagree. The game is too based around stacking and spam-healing as it is.

If you are hit by multiple, different healing debuffs, they should absolutely stack (ideally additively though). Without the ability to disarm, or maledict people's stats, healing debuffs are one of the few debuffs in this game.

No, no they shouldn't.

Most of the healing debuffs are already incredibly potent by themselves.

If healing debuffs are not potent enough (as Ifthir seems to feel), then they can be balanced by themselves. However, it should not be possible to reduce a healer's effectiveness to zero. We shouldn't need one purger for every opposing damage dealer (since there are so many different healing debuffs), not to mention that some are not even purge-able (standard).

^^ my thoughts exactly and response to Ifthir