Evil Hunter?

ThisOnePosts

In all honesty if someone is hunting for Vampires there should be a counter for Vamps to slot to hunt for the hunters. That is called balance since people will be running rampant with that and silver bolt.

Devs, feel free to check my characters and see I removed Vamp status months ago and the only char I keep vamp on is a low level mule character just to look at tooltips firsthand in case there are any changes.

It's terrible that there's even an add-on people use to show icons of other players which are Vampires (this basically is starting to cross the boundaries of cheating) and now Evil Hunter is going to be very cheesy as well unless it can work 2 ways. Singling each other out in battle makes more sense as opposed to it being one sided.

I have nothing to gain from Vamps having balance, however I am a fair player and the last thing we need are cheeseballs relying on one-sided mechanics as opposed to actually learning how to play better.

guybrushtb16_ESO

But shouldn't hunters get a skill in response to hunt the ones hunting the hunters? Seriously though, running both silver bolts and evil hunters on your bar is enough dedication to warrant good performance against vamps IMO, as it's probably intended to keep the vamp population in check.

ThisOnePosts

There is already a bunch of ways to dispose of vamps easier. This is just giving more training wheels by creating an outline (I mean really, that's just semi-pathetic that anyone would even need such a thing). So if the hunter highlights the vamp the vamp should see who has them highlighted. But you know, that would be a crazy thing called even ground and we know ZOS likes to go to extremes instead of straight up telling people to man-up (or woman-up) and L2P.

They are putting training wheels on for people who can't grasp this concept and it really went from a game that required more skill for all players back when it was launched to a game that's become molded for those who refuse to learn to play and set to easy mode. Really it's sad, the learning curve of this game I enjoyed in comparison to other MMOs and that no longer shines (not that any are hard to begin with, but at least this made a strive at it which is no longer the case).

Rosveen

We shouldn't be able to highlight enemy vampires in the first place.

phreatophile

Why would anyone bother with this when they can cheat (oops, exploit the api) with a program like Srendarr. Players can already pick you out from a distance now w/o having to slot anything.

ThisOnePosts

phreatophile wrote: »

Why would anyone bother with this when they can cheat (oops, exploit the api) with a program like Srendarr. Players can already pick you out from a distance now w/o having to slot anything.

People should be banned or at the very least suspended for using such things. Noobs, noobs everywhere

Nightreaver

Well if the Fighter guild passive that allows FG abilities that work on undead to also work on Werewolves is working then I wonder how many people will be left not glowing.

And how do you tell a glowing Vampire from a glowing Werewolf? Will they glow a different color?

WraithAzraiel

Well, the way Evil Hunter is going to work is people with have to choose between the morphs of Expert Hunter.

Camouflaged Hunter, which grants not only bonus damage to daedra, vamps, undead but also ANOTHER damage bonus on top of that if user attacks from stealth.

OR

Evil Hunter, which grants bonus damage and makes "evil" visible by way of highlights.


Sooo it's either.

Be Effective

OR

Be Lazy

Xsorus

You still highlight on test with camo hunter, tested it with a werewolf

AssaultLemming

Adding this without any sort of counter is terrible design. One more reason to not PvP.

WraithAzraiel

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

You still highlight on test with camo hunter, tested it with a werewolf

Then that's broken as hell, if Camo hunter hightlights why even bother having the Evil Hunter morph?

Grim13

Ahhhhh, ZOS... 3 steps forward... and 5 drunken lurches backward, one bump into a wall... and a tumble down a flight of stairs.

WraithAzraiel

Grim13 wrote: »

Ahhhhh, ZOS... 3 steps forward... and 5 drunken lurches backward, one bump into a wall... and a tumble down a flight of stairs.

Onto a bag of rusty hammers.

Mauz

I cant imagine that there has been a single emperor which wasnt a vampire. So being a vampire obviously does provide an advantage. From RP perspective vampires and werewolfs should be an exception, the majority of npcs hate them but in pvp all 3 alliances forces consist out of nothing but vampires.

To have the best ultimate, the highest sneak speed, very good escape option, better regeneration, dmg mitigation, heal skills should have a major drawback. I waswondering all the time, why with carmouflage hunter all creatures are highlighted. So this will now be fixed. It's not a feature I think its a fix imho.

I personally would prefer another option which wouldnt allow to neither join fighter guild and nor have access to their skill line as a vampire or werewolf. Its not really reasonable that a guild which seems to be dedicated to hunt undead, werewolfs and deadra recruit masses of these which have nothing better to do than to hunt down their own.

Sounds bit unfair cause half of cyrodiil inclusive my main char is vampire but I'm ok with this chance. Brings some tension into the pvp game.

ThisOnePosts

Mauz... I know plenty who were emperor and not Vamp. How much experience do you have as a Vampire? You mention all of these perks as if they are not severely offset.

Vamp was at once very good but still came with reasonable downfalls. Now it's mostly downfalls. It is not the best ultimate unless you are fighting a bunch of new players or people who fail to adapt. Those are not the type of players I'd need to customize my build around in order to run right over them so Vamp is not needed there.

Sneak speed is easily done with a set now. It's also not that great. I keep 1 set of Night's Silence for my character (who is not a Vamp) for when I want to sneak around faster and gank solo. The damage from fire is insane with or without fire resist it's still pretty bad. Yes you learn to move, block, reflect, etc.. but still you always have the potential to take much more damage than anyone else who is not a Vamp.

The active abilities are all but useless.. unless you make a build entirely around kiting in mist form and waiting for the right time to strike which is not very efficient and no longer is so easily spammable as it used to be due to the magicka cost increase months ago.

Vamp = pretty much a joke nowadays. If more people wake up and start ditching Vamp unless they keep it for reasons like: A) They just want it or they RP... but there are no actual advantage options... but if they want it just for the heck of it or to RP then okay I get that. But if the rest wake up and ditch Vamp, maybe ZOS will see something is wrong but more importantly, all of the people heavily relying on FG skills will start to realize their K/D plummeted and will be wishing they hadn't cried nerf every time they died to a L2P issue. Then it will be instead directed at some other skill, class, etc..

Again, NONE of my VR14s (and I have 4 of them) are Vamp. One used to be months ago before VR14 was even released. I saw the downward trend, ditched it and started to whoop more butt than I was doing previously so decided to keep it like that (No Vamp, No WW). I encourage all who want to improve their experience, to ditch it unless you want it just for the sake of being a vamp or for rp. I have yet to ever hear of anything curing vamp and doing WORSE, out of the many people I know who have done the same and cured it... all positive feedback in regards to curing it minus how the skill points are handled (need to do a reset to get them back still).

Thechemicals

Im not sure where youve been but vampires have been wrecking people since release. They have been nerfed but people were abusing batswarm's healing which was nerfed as well by 30%. The invisible batswarm morph cannot be detected either so basically you are hitting people at will and they have no counter but wait until the effect is over, most die during that time. You can moan aoe all you like but batswarm aoe defeats any aoe.

ThisOnePosts

It sounds like you have a case of the L2P's Thechemicals. I've been in the game, playing each of my 4 VR14s with PVP on each one.

Vamps have never been a problem for me to deal with. How is that? Do I have a magical version of the game?

Hear bats = move... move... MOVE. See yourself taking damage but somehow don't see/hear anything... move, move move. You don't just stand there. I don't understand how some people even manage to get the game installed, honestly.

I think it's crazy that people can outline others and know exactly what buttons to press without having to figure it out the same as they would with anything else. That is not just noob-friendly, that is like installing the training wheels for them and holding them the entire way.

Again, I am NOT a vamp. You'd think I'd be happy about this??? No. I think it's borderline cheating and you may as allow wallhacks in FPS games while you're at it. It's a terrible idea and Vamps are already pretty crappy as it is (unless you have a case of the L2Ps which you demonstrate very clearly via your words).

MrGhosty

ViciousWayz wrote: »

It sounds like you have a case of the L2P's Thechemicals. I've been in the game, playing each of my 4 VR14s with PVP on each one.

Vamps have never been a problem for me to deal with. How is that? Do I have a magical version of the game?

Hear bats = move... move... MOVE. See yourself taking damage but somehow don't see/hear anything... move, move move. You don't just stand there. I don't understand how some people even manage to get the game installed, honestly.

I think it's crazy that people can outline others and know exactly what buttons to press without having to figure it out the same as they would with anything else. That is not just noob-friendly, that is like installing the training wheels for them and holding them the entire way.

Again, I am NOT a vamp. You'd think I'd be happy about this??? No. I think it's borderline cheating and you may as allow wallhacks in FPS games while you're at it. It's a terrible idea and Vamps are already pretty crappy as it is (unless you have a case of the L2Ps which you demonstrate very clearly via your words).

Gotta love it when someone has a differing opinion and it is immediately because they play the game worse than you. I am a vamp and I have no issue with this highlighting, as it already does it in game (could be a bug, I don't depend on it) This is not a game breaking or Vamp/WW breaking change like you seem to think. There are far more effective ways to fight efficiently in Cyrodiil and slotting Fighter's Guild abilities come at a cost of taking other abilities that are useful against everyone away.

Aside from the fire damage that you get if you didn't plan ahead and bring a dunmer to the party, there are relatively few downsides to being a vamp. This provides balance to that, and for everytime you try to say the Vamp abilities aren't worth using I will point you to the mega impulse batswarm zergs as a counter point. (that may change now due to the new update but we shall see.)

I long put away my vamp abilities as they didn't suit my playstyle, but as a Khajiit NB I love my fast sneak ability and for that reason alone I have stayed a vamp. I say rather than these constant nerfs we get, I say we need more checks and balances like these put in. That way if a particular play style irks you, you can spec out your build to combat it directly. Just creates more build diversity, and the more people slotting those skills means my non vamp characters have less to fear. This really is a non issue.

Thechemicals

ViciousWayz wrote: »

It sounds like you have a case of the L2P's Thechemicals. I've been in the game, playing each of my 4 VR14s with PVP on each one.

Vamps have never been a problem for me to deal with. How is that? Do I have a magical version of the game?

Hear bats = move... move... MOVE. See yourself taking damage but somehow don't see/hear anything... move, move move. You don't just stand there. I don't understand how some people even manage to get the game installed, honestly.

I think it's crazy that people can outline others and know exactly what buttons to press without having to figure it out the same as they would with anything else. That is not just noob-friendly, that is like installing the training wheels for them and holding them the entire way.

Again, I am NOT a vamp. You'd think I'd be happy about this??? No. I think it's borderline cheating and you may as allow wallhacks in FPS games while you're at it. It's a terrible idea and Vamps are already pretty crappy as it is (unless you have a case of the L2Ps which you demonstrate very clearly via your words).

I think you are fighting low quality vampires or you are a small scale player. The good vampires have speed, lots of it. They bolt escape into you as well, so your going to take 2 tick of damage regardless of how pro you are. Your manner need improvement btw.

Secondly, i never said i personally am being killed by vamps and cant escape. However, i do have to take 1-2 tick of batswarm damage and use 50% of my stamina resource to include some magicka spells to avoid batswarm. By the time the enemy is done using batswarm, im already behind on resource management from dodging. This is at 2200 stamina and 138 recovery.

Lastly, most batswarming engagement is situational. Some can Bolt escape or shadow cloak at 100% movement and be fine. Others have to eat the entire ultimate like Dk's and Templars or use 600+stamina from multiple dodge rolls and/or magicka defensive spells. Im not sure what class you are but "Move" as a counter to batswarm sounds like you might need to learn that batswarm is 8-10 meter radius while dodge is a 3 meter move. Thanks for the feedback though.

ThisOnePosts

MrGhosty wrote: »

ViciousWayz wrote: »

It sounds like you have a case of the L2P's Thechemicals. I've been in the game, playing each of my 4 VR14s with PVP on each one.

Vamps have never been a problem for me to deal with. How is that? Do I have a magical version of the game?

Hear bats = move... move... MOVE. See yourself taking damage but somehow don't see/hear anything... move, move move. You don't just stand there. I don't understand how some people even manage to get the game installed, honestly.

I think it's crazy that people can outline others and know exactly what buttons to press without having to figure it out the same as they would with anything else. That is not just noob-friendly, that is like installing the training wheels for them and holding them the entire way.

Again, I am NOT a vamp. You'd think I'd be happy about this??? No. I think it's borderline cheating and you may as allow wallhacks in FPS games while you're at it. It's a terrible idea and Vamps are already pretty crappy as it is (unless you have a case of the L2Ps which you demonstrate very clearly via your words).

Gotta love it when someone has a differing opinion and it is immediately because they play the game worse than you. I am a vamp and I have no issue with this highlighting, as it already does it in game (could be a bug, I don't depend on it) This is not a game breaking or Vamp/WW breaking change like you seem to think. There are far more effective ways to fight efficiently in Cyrodiil and slotting Fighter's Guild abilities come at a cost of taking other abilities that are useful against everyone away.

Aside from the fire damage that you get if you didn't plan ahead and bring a dunmer to the party, there are relatively few downsides to being a vamp. This provides balance to that, and for everytime you try to say the Vamp abilities aren't worth using I will point you to the mega impulse batswarm zergs as a counter point. (that may change now due to the new update but we shall see.)

I long put away my vamp abilities as they didn't suit my playstyle, but as a Khajiit NB I love my fast sneak ability and for that reason alone I have stayed a vamp. I say rather than these constant nerfs we get, I say we need more checks and balances like these put in. That way if a particular play style irks you, you can spec out your build to combat it directly. Just creates more build diversity, and the more people slotting those skills means my non vamp characters have less to fear. This really is a non issue.

Well it's basic logic that's all. If one person struggles with something that the other does not and both have the same tools at their disposal, something is off with one of them. No need to say "oh everyone gets trophies here congrats everyone!!"... people do that enough iRL nowadays. I'm just being honest here.

They don't highlight now, unless you are using an add-on which really should be banned since it not only circumvents those who will invest skill points in this but also is basically cheating. That's like an add-on to "speed around the map faster"... so if you are using that add-on without realizing it, then yes that's why you are seeing it. I have never seen a glitch where Vamps are glowing to me.

You can negate the 50% fire damage, with or without a Dunmer via precisely tweaking fire resist, spell resist, and armor... However, you still wind up in a lesser position than someone without such sensitivity to fire damage. Fire is the most used element in the game. Sure Sorcs use Lightning but how many inferno staff wielding people do you see running around? Add to that the FG skills and what is the benefit of being a vamp other than trying to get easy kills on those still learning?

You can also mimic that exact speed bonus with the Night's Silence set. You can swap it out with one click using an add-on if you don't feel like adding it whenever you want. There are more cons to being a vamp now than pros. I had Vamp within the first few weeks of the game being released. I kept it for months and saw the direction it was headed. So I cured it. Curing it made me even more lethal on the battlefield. The only Vamp that I have out of 8 characters is in fact a Dark Elf... however it's not even a Vet yet and more of a mule since I have 4 maxed out chars of each class. I do keep a Vamp and a WW so that I can see changes made to them but not characters that I currently play with anymore than logging in for hireling mails and keeping additional items.

My characters that I play with regularly would never bother with Vamp the way things on. Adds build diversity? There are many, many other things I'm sure they could think of to add build diversity other than making a bunch of easy targets running around Cyrodiil. It's a bit silly and I don't know of an MMO that would hand out such training wheels so I'm shocked this one of all has brought such a thing to the table --- since afterall it is my fav MMO overall.

ThisOnePosts

Thechemicals wrote: »

ViciousWayz wrote: »

It sounds like you have a case of the L2P's Thechemicals. I've been in the game, playing each of my 4 VR14s with PVP on each one.

Vamps have never been a problem for me to deal with. How is that? Do I have a magical version of the game?

Hear bats = move... move... MOVE. See yourself taking damage but somehow don't see/hear anything... move, move move. You don't just stand there. I don't understand how some people even manage to get the game installed, honestly.

I think it's crazy that people can outline others and know exactly what buttons to press without having to figure it out the same as they would with anything else. That is not just noob-friendly, that is like installing the training wheels for them and holding them the entire way.

Again, I am NOT a vamp. You'd think I'd be happy about this??? No. I think it's borderline cheating and you may as allow wallhacks in FPS games while you're at it. It's a terrible idea and Vamps are already pretty crappy as it is (unless you have a case of the L2Ps which you demonstrate very clearly via your words).

I think you are fighting low quality vampires or you are a small scale player. The good vampires have speed, lots of it. They bolt escape into you as well, so your going to take 2 tick of damage regardless of how pro you are. Your manner need improvement btw.

Secondly, i never said i personally am being killed by vamps and cant escape. However, i do have to take 1-2 tick of batswarm damage and use 50% of my stamina resource to include some magicka spells to avoid batswarm. By the time the enemy is done using batswarm, im already behind on resource management from dodging. This is at 2200 stamina and 138 recovery.

Lastly, most batswarming engagement is situational. Some can Bolt escape or shadow cloak at 100% movement and be fine. Others have to eat the entire ultimate like Dk's and Templars or use 600+stamina from multiple dodge rolls and/or magicka defensive spells. Im not sure what class you are but "Move" as a counter to batswarm sounds like you might need to learn that batswarm is 8-10 meter radius while dodge is a 3 meter move. Thanks for the feedback though.

LOL I play amongst the top players between the 2 most populated campaigns (depending which character I'm on) on a regular basis, we run Zergs at times to take keeps in a moments notice and other times I will solo a bit just for kicks when I'm on my NB.

If you are not having problems with Vamp then why are you assuming people do? It sounds like you spoke from experience and now wish you hadn't. There are many ways to deal with Batswarm on each class and I'm not about to start teaching class as it's not my job to.

Out of all my characters which deal with Vamps easily--- batswarm or not, DK and Temp are prepared to deal with just standing there more so than NB and Sorc many times over. NB and Sorc have escapes because they can not sit there taking damage like a DK and Temp can although they do have ways that they can move (aim at another enemy and charge them for example since many DKs/Temp run 1h/shield it's only 1 skill to have on the bar).

This isn't about batswarm though. It's amazing that there are a bunch of us who have no problems about it whatsoever and never ever have complained about it since we figured out the mechanics which are as simple as 1, 2, 3.

Highlighting players is the problem... it shows them lit up and then begins the FG skills spammage. I will not be one of those people using this "training wheels" method of highlighting enemy players because it just feels wrong unless there was a counter or balance to it --- but there is not.

Again, any Vamps who like to play at their best, consider curing and trying it out for a week... you are going to see you are much more dangerous on the battlefield without it (as things are currently) ---- unless again, you fight a lot of new players or those who don't adapt, like chem.

sagitter

We are all vamps so why are you worried about it? i don't see any difference at all, just a glowing spotlight.

ThisOnePosts

Sag, that's great you enjoy it and don't mind being highlighted and an AP/XP magnet for other players.

But don't say "we are all vamps" --- because that's not true. I know plenty who cured in anticipation of this. I cured months ago knowing it was heading in a downward spiral before it had any hopes of becoming something reasonable again.

Vanzen

Mist + Manoeuver ... I stay vamp cause of this. + reflect scale, if aware of your surroundings, nothing can kill you. Especially good to avoid zerg .
Something I just love is to be surounded, pop take flight, stunning all around, mist + manoeuver and escape ...

Sharee

If someone dedicates one of the few quickbar slots he gets to an ability that is completely useless against players who are not vampires, then he deserves to get a hefty boost against those who are.

VileIntent

Honestly I believe vamps and werewolves should be locked out of the fighters guild tree. This would then make the choice of being a vamp, wolf or not more plausible.

Jacques Berge

Vampires get an entire skill tree... That's your balance.

ThisOnePosts

Vanzen wrote: »

Mist + Manoeuver ... I stay vamp cause of this. + reflect scale, if aware of your surroundings, nothing can kill you. Especially good to avoid zerg .
Something I just love is to be surounded, pop take flight, stunning all around, mist + manoeuver and escape ...

Yeah, you'll be out of magicka very fast even if over the cap. You'll be out before my Sorc was out Streaking over your head nonstop and then you'd be killed with ranged after you ran out of magicka and became stunned.

LOL.. I would never put Vamp on my DK just to use Mist + Reflective Scales... I mean really? That's about as one-trick pony as it gets.

ThisOnePosts

Sharee wrote: »

If someone dedicates one of the few quickbar slots he gets to an ability that is completely useless against players who are not vampires, then he deserves to get a hefty boost against those who are.

Then why not have something that does extra damage to non-vamp/WW? That would be balance. There is nothing of the sort. WW now is a bit better but it's a far cry from being worth it in Cyro.

Jacques Berge wrote: »

Vampires get an entire skill tree... That's your balance.

They get an entire passive tree... but only 2 actives and an ultimate. You also won't find many people slotting any of the active vampire abilities in PVP (unless they are one-trick ponies, reference a previous post). Also only one of the passives is truly worth it as the other ones just try to soften the hit from the major flaws of Vamp but definitely do not outweigh the cons.

If Vamp were so good, players like me who have vast experience with it would have never cured it. My character is much more powerful overall in both PVE and PVP, without Vamp or WW. There is no arguing with such evidence unless you are trying to sway people into thinking Vamp is good, to keep it.. so that you can have your easy kills. Hopefully all of the skilled players wake up and drop it until there's more balance surrounding it and watch people looking for cheap kills wind up getting stomped in Cyro a lot more often from encountering considerably more non-Vamps.

Rainingblood

Ooo.... Sparkly tears.

But seriously, lol.

ThisOnePosts

Rainingblood wrote: »

Ooo.... Sparkly tears.

But seriously, lol.

9 days later... not sure who you're talking to but the party is over, you're a day late and a dollar short

Regardless though, even though I'm not a vamp I still refuse to use this ability in Cyrodiil. It is good for noobs though, help them get a few kills they otherwise couldn't get.