The Elder Scrolls Online

Is Bat Swarm getting a damage buff?

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olemanwinter
olemanwinter
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People in game were INSISTING that even though Devouring Swarm was getting a 30% nerf to healing, the basic skill was getting a buff 50% increase to base damage.

I ask for a source. They mostly yelled at me and called me names.

I can't find any patch notes that say this, can anyone confirm or deny?
  • demonlkojipub19_ESO
    demonlkojipub19_ESO
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    no it isnt.
  • jelliedsoup
    jelliedsoup
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    i hope so, it appears that Zos will lose it's vamp base if they can't kill at least 8 with a swarm cast.
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  • timidobserver
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    Easy solution. Log into the PTS and check.
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  • WraithAzraiel
    WraithAzraiel
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    slightly more difficult than that. It's not like you can log into PTS go find the blue frog (SWG reference) and become a vampire.
    Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade

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  • demonlkojipub19_ESO
    demonlkojipub19_ESO
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    WraithAzraiel wrote: »
    slightly more difficult than that. It's not like you can log into PTS go find the blue frog (SWG reference) and become a vampire.

    If your char on live was vampire before oct 2 you can log onto PTS and check. Live chars got copied. Thats how I know the damage wasn't buffed..
  • WraithAzraiel
    WraithAzraiel
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    demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »
    WraithAzraiel wrote: »
    slightly more difficult than that. It's not like you can log into PTS go find the blue frog (SWG reference) and become a vampire.

    If your char on live was vampire before oct 2 you can log onto PTS and check. Live chars got copied. Thats how I know the damage wasn't buffed..

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    Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade

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  • Jitterbug
    Jitterbug
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    Wouldn't it make more sense to nerf the damage and keep the healing?
  • WraithAzraiel
    WraithAzraiel
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    Nope - what would make sense would be to increase the overall cost of the Ultimate and make it immune to Ultimate cost reduction. And immune to the Stage 4 "Vampire" skill cost reduction as well.

    Therefore demolishing it's spam-ability. Especially by Sorcerer's.
    Edited by WraithAzraiel on October 31, 2014 9:05AM
    Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade

    Captain of the Black Howling

    "There's no such thing as overkill..."

    "No problem on the face of the Earth exists what can't be fixed with the proper application of enough duct tape and 550 cord."

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  • Jitterbug
    Jitterbug
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    WraithAzraiel wrote: »
    Nope - what would make sense would be to increase the overall cost of the Ultimate and make it immune to Ultimate cost reduction. And immune to the Stage 4 "Vampire" skill cost reduction as well.

    Therefore demolishing it's spam-ability. Especially by Sorcerer's.

    Yeah that makes sense - it would still have oomph but be less frequent.
    The reason I asked is that was all I used it for - oh sh*t heal when pulling too many mobs :P
  • DaggerfallTradeMasters
    DaggerfallTradeMasters
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    WraithAzraiel wrote: »
    Nope - what would make sense would be to increase the overall cost of the Ultimate and make it immune to Ultimate cost reduction. And immune to the Stage 4 "Vampire" skill cost reduction as well.

    Therefore demolishing it's spam-ability. Especially by Sorcerer's.

    I got a LVL 48 vampire now i just need to kill 2/3 npc and i got 120 UP and can cast it again.
    So yeah its pretty OP
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  • demonlkojipub19_ESO
    demonlkojipub19_ESO
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    DaggerfallTradeMasters wrote: »
    WraithAzraiel wrote: »
    Nope - what would make sense would be to increase the overall cost of the Ultimate and make it immune to Ultimate cost reduction. And immune to the Stage 4 "Vampire" skill cost reduction as well.

    Therefore demolishing it's spam-ability. Especially by Sorcerer's.

    I got a LVL 48 vampire now i just need to kill 2/3 npc and i got 120 UP and can cast it again.
    So yeah its pretty OP

    No, its isnt.
  • WraithAzraiel
    WraithAzraiel
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    demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »
    DaggerfallTradeMasters wrote: »
    WraithAzraiel wrote: »
    Nope - what would make sense would be to increase the overall cost of the Ultimate and make it immune to Ultimate cost reduction. And immune to the Stage 4 "Vampire" skill cost reduction as well.

    Therefore demolishing it's spam-ability. Especially by Sorcerer's.

    I got a LVL 48 vampire now i just need to kill 2/3 npc and i got 120 UP and can cast it again.
    So yeah its pretty OP

    No, its isnt.

    It's the cheapest Ultimate for the most return. It's the reason why so many facerolling lazy PvP'ers go vampire, so they can get the most with the least amount of work.
    Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade

    Captain of the Black Howling

    "There's no such thing as overkill..."

    "No problem on the face of the Earth exists what can't be fixed with the proper application of enough duct tape and 550 cord."

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  • demonlkojipub19_ESO
    demonlkojipub19_ESO
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    WraithAzraiel wrote: »
    demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »
    DaggerfallTradeMasters wrote: »
    WraithAzraiel wrote: »
    Nope - what would make sense would be to increase the overall cost of the Ultimate and make it immune to Ultimate cost reduction. And immune to the Stage 4 "Vampire" skill cost reduction as well.

    Therefore demolishing it's spam-ability. Especially by Sorcerer's.

    I got a LVL 48 vampire now i just need to kill 2/3 npc and i got 120 UP and can cast it again.
    So yeah its pretty OP

    No, its isnt.

    It's the cheapest Ultimate for the most return. It's the reason why so many facerolling lazy PvP'ers go vampire, so they can get the most with the least amount of work.

    What you run into are copy/pasted magicka builds who will faceroll you without vampire. Vampire just adds a little more oomph to their build, as it does to weaker builds or, as it is supposed to.

    In future news you'll be complaining about Werewolves facerolling you after they transform, and that lazy pvpers go werewolf to get the most with least amount of work.
    Edited by demonlkojipub19_ESO on November 1, 2014 1:37AM
  • WraithAzraiel
    WraithAzraiel
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    demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »
    WraithAzraiel wrote: »
    demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »
    DaggerfallTradeMasters wrote: »
    WraithAzraiel wrote: »
    Nope - what would make sense would be to increase the overall cost of the Ultimate and make it immune to Ultimate cost reduction. And immune to the Stage 4 "Vampire" skill cost reduction as well.

    Therefore demolishing it's spam-ability. Especially by Sorcerer's.

    I got a LVL 48 vampire now i just need to kill 2/3 npc and i got 120 UP and can cast it again.
    So yeah its pretty OP

    No, its isnt.

    It's the cheapest Ultimate for the most return. It's the reason why so many facerolling lazy PvP'ers go vampire, so they can get the most with the least amount of work.

    What you run into are copy/pasted magicka builds who will faceroll you without vampire. Vampire just adds a little more oomph to their build, as it does to weaker builds or, as it is supposed to.

    In future news you'll be complaining about Werewolves facerolling you after they transform, and that lazy pvpers go werewolf to get the most with least amount of work.


    No, I'm telling you exactly what I see. Sorcerer's and DK's in dresses with destro staves spamming Impulse, Streak/Talons and Bat Swarm.

    Don't get upset, I've been a vamp on my main since day 2 of Early Access. I've suffered through all the nerfs and they were ALL UNNECESSARY.

    The problem was broken amounts of Ultimate Generation and an extremely cheap and effective Ultimate.

    I've suffered through the months of whiny crybabies screaming for Vampire to be nerfed and what happened? ZOS went and listened, when ALL they needed to do:

    is make the Ultimate cost more and make it immune to more than 10% Ultimate Cost Reduction, instead of the possible 36% cost reduction possible as a Stage 4 vamp Sorcerer.

    And boom, problem solved. The crybabies are happy, the keyboard to face slamming 1-3 button pushing lulvampirePvPerz are neutralized and Vampire is released from it's bonds of scapegoatery.

    I'm not saying it as a skill line is OP and should be nerfed. I'm saying the nerfs were all unnecessary, the incoming nerf is unnecessary, the devs are MISSING THE POINT.

    So relax. At ease the personal attack and actually read before you start panicking and whipping out the "NO U SUCK" attitude.
    Edited by WraithAzraiel on November 1, 2014 2:02AM
    Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade

    Captain of the Black Howling

    "There's no such thing as overkill..."

    "No problem on the face of the Earth exists what can't be fixed with the proper application of enough duct tape and 550 cord."

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  • Nightreaver
    Nightreaver
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    As I've said elsewhere, I don't have a problem with increasing the amount of Ultimate needed to cast. I do have a concern with making it immune to cost reduction. It needs to be consistent. Think you are introducing a whole new set of problems when you start selectively choosing which ultimates are affected by cost reduction and which ones aren't. If you make Vamp Ultimate immune to cost reduction then Werewolf should be as well which would take an even bigger hit than Vamp.

    Once you make one Ultimate immune to cost reduction, people will start arguing and demanding which other Ultimates need to be made immune to cost reduction.

    My suggestion would be either:
    1) Reset Ultimate to zero when Bat swarm expires. This would be consistent with Werewolf that already resets ultimate to zero when the Werewolf Ultimate expires. It would also prevent Bat swarm from being chain cast.

    or

    2) Change the Vamp passive from "Your Vampirism abilities cost [x]% less to cast." to "Your Vampirism Magicka abilities cost [x]% less to cast." This will eliminate the 21% Ultimate cost reduction from the vamp line.
    Edited by Nightreaver on November 1, 2014 4:13AM
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  • Cody
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    man I hope not. :(

    the block and spam swarmers are bad enough already....
  • WraithAzraiel
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    Nightreaver wrote: »
    As I've said elsewhere, I don't have a problem with increasing the amount of Ultimate needed to cast. I do have a concern with making it immune to cost reduction. It needs to be consistent. Think you are introducing a whole new set of problems when you start selectively choosing which ultimates are affected by cost reduction and which ones aren't. If you make Vamp Ultimate immune to cost reduction then Werewolf should be as well which would take an even bigger hit than Vamp.

    Once you make one Ultimate immune to cost reduction, people will start arguing and demanding which other Ultimates need to be made immune to cost reduction.

    My suggestion would be either:
    1) Reset Ultimate to zero when Bat swarm expires. This would be consistent with Werewolf that already resets ultimate to zero when the Werewolf Ultimate expires. It would also prevent Bat swarm from being chain cast.

    or

    2) Change the Vamp passive from "Your Vampirism abilities cost [x]% less to cast." to "Your Vampirism Magicka abilities cost [x]% less to cast." This will eliminate the 21% Ultimate cost reduction from the vamp line.

    Those are good suggestions as well. But I'd like to point out in my post that I had ammended the blanket "immune to all cost reduction" to a new "a cap of 10% (or another reasonable percentage) maximum to cost reduction"

    We're on the same page, different paragraphs.
    Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade

    Captain of the Black Howling

    "There's no such thing as overkill..."

    "No problem on the face of the Earth exists what can't be fixed with the proper application of enough duct tape and 550 cord."

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  • AriBoh
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    I think a problem with increasing the cost of swarm will make the returns from DK battle roar passive even better than it already is. Making it even more attractive. Also I saw devouring swarm as the weaker version, was baffled when it was nerfed, particularly not by damage done.
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  • Francescolg
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    WraithAzraiel wrote: »
    It's the cheapest Ultimate for the most return. It's the reason why so many facerolling lazy PvP'ers go vampire, so they can get the most with the least amount of work.

    DK has a better ultimate for the same cost

  • WraithAzraiel
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    Francescolg wrote: »
    WraithAzraiel wrote: »
    It's the cheapest Ultimate for the most return. It's the reason why so many facerolling lazy PvP'ers go vampire, so they can get the most with the least amount of work.

    DK has a better ultimate for the same cost

    K? Does it provide an aoe health drain and move with them allowing them to continue attacking and generating Ultimate?

    If not, how in the hell is that better?
    Edited by WraithAzraiel on November 1, 2014 8:08AM
    Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade

    Captain of the Black Howling

    "There's no such thing as overkill..."

    "No problem on the face of the Earth exists what can't be fixed with the proper application of enough duct tape and 550 cord."

    P2PBetaTesters
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  • demonlkojipub19_ESO
    demonlkojipub19_ESO
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    Standard of might lasts 17 seconds, not 6 like batswarm. Increases damage dealt by 20%, decreases damage taken by 20%, reduces healing of enemies affected by it by 50%. Shifting standard can be used twice before the duration ends and also reduces healing of enemies on it by 50%.

    You're just incapable of seeing the tactical advantages of other ultimates, because you rather rage against the vampire. Are you that same guy that posted nothing but cons for every ultimate while giving batswarm nothing but pros? if not, then do the same thing I told that guy and research the real pros and cons of each ultimate then try again.

    This basically turned into a thread questioning if somethings damage was getting buffed thread, to a rage against the vampire thread. The question was answered. If you want to rage against batswarm go find one of the "nerf batswarm /QQ" threads. This question has already been answered. No it hasn't been buffed /thread.
    Edited by demonlkojipub19_ESO on November 1, 2014 11:06AM
  • Kaghei
    Kaghei
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    Francescolg wrote: »
    WraithAzraiel wrote: »
    It's the cheapest Ultimate for the most return. It's the reason why so many facerolling lazy PvP'ers go vampire, so they can get the most with the least amount of work.

    DK has a better ultimate for the same cost

    If youre talking about dragon leap youre wrong, sorry but dragon leap heals you for 900, does about 1000-2000 damage in a group of 6, bats on the other hand will heal you for 4000 plus battle roar and also does 4000 damage in a group of 6. Its the best ulti in the game, followed by negate imo.

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  • WraithAzraiel
    WraithAzraiel
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    demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »
    Standard of might lasts 17 seconds, not 6 like batswarm. Increases damage dealt by 20%, decreases damage taken by 20%, reduces healing of enemies affected by it by 50%. Shifting standard can be used twice before the duration ends and also reduces healing of enemies on it by 50%.

    You're just incapable of seeing the tactical advantages of other ultimates, because you rather rage against the vampire. Are you that same guy that posted nothing but cons for every ultimate while giving batswarm nothing but pros? if not, then do the same thing I told that guy and research the real pros and cons of each ultimate then try again.

    This basically turned into a thread questioning if somethings damage was getting buffed thread, to a rage against the vampire thread. The question was answered. If you want to rage against batswarm go find one of the "nerf batswarm /QQ" threads. This question has already been answered. No it hasn't been buffed /thread.

    Sure I'm incapable of seeing the tactical advantages of Ultimates I can't use on my NightBlade...oh wait no I'm not.

    Nope that's not me. I'm the guy constantly defending Vampire in every "VAMPUR R 2 OP NERF DEM" thread.

    What I'm saying is all the nerfing is UNNECESSARY. And could've been avoided if ZOS was smart about tweaking Vampire, instead of listening to the crying masses and throwing nerfs around that don't belong.

    Holy hell, when will people take the f@$%ing time to read posts instead of skimming and assuming they know what the hell they're talking about.

    Take a hike.
    Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade

    Captain of the Black Howling

    "There's no such thing as overkill..."

    "No problem on the face of the Earth exists what can't be fixed with the proper application of enough duct tape and 550 cord."

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  • demonlkojipub19_ESO
    demonlkojipub19_ESO
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    You stated that you would have them increase the ultimate cost AND not make the vampire skill cost reduction affect the ultimate, yet you "defend" against vampire nerfs? Such lies you speak.
    WraithAzraiel wrote: »
    Nope - what would make sense would be to increase the overall cost of the Ultimate and make it immune to Ultimate cost reduction. And immune to the Stage 4 "Vampire" skill cost reduction as well.

    Therefore demolishing it's spam-ability. Especially by Sorcerer's.

    This was not "nerf batswarm"? What was it? It certainly doesn't sound like a defense against nerfs.
    Edited by demonlkojipub19_ESO on November 2, 2014 10:57AM
  • Nightreaver
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    Just out of curiosity I thought I would see how the Bat Swarm compared to other Ultimates in terms of cost.

    Dragon Knight
    Dragon Leap: 150
    Dragon Knight Standard: 200
    Magma Armor: 200

    Night Blade
    Death Stroke: 50
    Consuming Darkness: 200
    Soul Shred: 150

    Sorcerer
    Overload: 125
    Negate Magic: 250
    Summon Storm Atronach: 200

    Templar
    Nova: 300
    Radial Sweep: 75
    Rite of Passage: 150

    Guild:
    Fighter Guild - Dawnbreaker: 125
    Mage Guild - Meteor: 200

    World
    Soul Magic - Soul Strike: 150
    Vampirism - Bat Swarm: 200
    Lycantrophy - Werewolf: 425

    So it looks to already be one of the higher cost Ultimates.
    WraithAzraiel wrote: »

    Nope - what would make sense would be to increase the overall cost of the Ultimate and make it immune to Ultimate cost reduction. And immune to the Stage 4 "Vampire" skill cost reduction as well.

    My issue with this is that if there is to be a nerf to this ability then I feel it should be to the ability itself, not to specific classes that use the ability.
    Increasing cost would affect everyone equally.
    Reducing the cost reduction passive from Vampire skill line would affect everyone equally.
    Reducing Ultimate cost reduction from class lines would only affect Templars and Sorcerers with passives to reduce Ultimate cost while leaving Dragon Knights and Night Blades with passives to increase Ultimate unaffected.
    If they ever create a Legendary recipe it better contain bacon as one of the ingredients. I'm just sayin'.
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